CNN Piece on Hardwick Lawsuit | Page 2 | The Boneyard

CNN Piece on Hardwick Lawsuit

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OneTrickPony said:
I trust the Economist...for other news you need to survey a variety of sources and rely on your own discretion.
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Hey OneTrickPony - Welcome to the Boneyard!

Am I to assume based on your avatar you are a fan of one of our new BE conference mates - SMU? Welcome aboard!

I also note from your profile you live in Atlanta, GA. Small world. My son attends Georgia Tech and one of his former girlfriends (and now just a friend) is an SMU cheerleader.

We return you now to the regularly scheduled thread!
 
OneTrickPony said:
The Creationism v Evolution debate is very interesting...particularly here in the South where I suspect the polls tilt heavily toward Creationism. Growing up as a Catholic in New York City, I never realized the dichotomy until I moved to Texas in 1961. Biology teachers in Georgia tell their Creationism students that they just need to learn Evolution Theory for the test. That seems to eliminate most of the vitriol at the PTA.
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How are you fitting in down there?
 
Thanks UConnChapette...I am indeed an SMU alum. However, I must admit to following the UConn WBB team since at least the early 90's, so I've visited this site frequently over the years. It is an exceedingly small world as I'm constantly reminded!

Atlanta, like Dallas, is a metropolitan city with as many Yankees as Southerners, so I blend in pretty well. MilfordHusky. Even in 1961, we had to loan a few Yankees to the Southern team in kickball to even up the sides! ;-)
 
I've always said Dallas is Atlanta without the soul. Only metro in the South where, after the end of institutionalized segregation, Blacks were actually enfranchised economically. In the 1960s, its motto was, "the city too busy to hate." It should be noted, however, that many of its citizens found the time.
 
Alex, I do think Atlanta is a model city for the American experiment. I live at the south end of Buckhead just above Midtown and the black middle class is a bourgeois as you could ask for... We need to solve the problems of public education to keep advancing!
 
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I lived on the other side of Buckhead (by Phipps and Lenox) for five and half years before moving to CT in early 2008. Love Atlanta. Less fun to live in the city itself once you have kids (as I now do- didn't at the time), but people seem to carve out pieces of the metro area that suit them relative to where they are in their lives.
 
Not really sure, Nan...No Child Left Behind clearly traumatized the educational community...and not only for the obvious reasons. The Atlanta Public School system is still reeling. Fortunately the new superintendent seems like the real thing!
 
We need to do something about the math & science education in this country, Icebear...I'm open to all suggestions!
 
Sorry, Nan...thought you were referring to the teaching scandal. Guess you haven't seen the pictures of modern humans coexisting with dinosaurs in Arkansas...sobering!
 
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OneTrickPony said:
We need to do something about the math & science education in this country, Icebear...I'm open to all suggestions!
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OneTrickPony said:
Sorry, Nan...thought you were referring to the teaching scandal. Guess you haven't seen the pictures of modern humans coexisting with dinosaurs in Arkansas...sobering!
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No, I have and as a pastor it is completely disheartening because creationism is as bad Biblically as it is scientifically. Actually, I am starting to work on a book of exercises to help people see/discover for themselves the multiple creation stories in Genesis, variances in the Gospel stories of the birth of Christ, entry to Jerusalem, the Last Supper, the garden of Gethsemene, the trials before the Sanhedrin and Pilate, the crucifixion and the resurrection. Then in seeing the variation to explore the richness of witness uncovered in diversity as the Biblical authors attempted to speak the stories of the God of Israel and Jesus of Nazareth to their unique communities.

One of the things to do is to help people make their own discoveries rather than teach an outcome. This is a very old model back to at least the Greeks but in the present climate of teach to test it is difficult. Letting people experience and think takes time. Dogmatism rarely works in faith or politics. Provocation is a much stronger teaching model.
 
Icebear...I'm very interested in your project. My grandfather's brother was Cardinal Spellman's assistant in the 1960's and ran the New York Catholic School system. Your view seems to parallel his both in substance and in the approach you'd take. Let me know if I can help in any way!

I am actually planning to enter the public school system in lieu of retirement. In Atlanta we have a critical shortage of math and science teachers to begin with...we certified one Physics teacher in the State of Georgia last year! I belong to a network of over 1200 c-level executives in Atlanta, and many of them are spending too much time on the golf course. I hope to entice some them into the secondary system. The Gates Foundation and General Electric are both willing to fund initiatives along these lines.

Nan...you are so right. I attended the International Robotics competition twice here in Atlanta. My nephew made it both times...out from California. It was a tremendous experience and the speakers were outstanding. In the Clinton administration I was the liaison between the US Government laboratory system and the environmental business community as part of his Environmental Export Council. Very interesting to hear how the government's views on technology have evolved vcis-a-vis things like the X-Prize.
 
Oh...and I do know a number of APS High Schools have robotics clubs. I may know more soon!
 
Posts like several in this thread make the Boneyard a special place to visit. I am grateful for the opportunity to read them and to occasionally participate in discussions beyond well-worn topics like recruiting and starting lineups.

Thanks Nan, JS and Biff. Thanks fellow Boneyarders.
 
1TP, I sent you a link off board to an excellent paper. Check your inbox. We can continue this discussion there.
 
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Biff said:
Back to the OP topic....

This morning local channel 61 took some of that video and repackaged their own report. A little more balanced and addressed a couple of the concerns about the original video 9e.g. included the original Geno denial quote and left out the sarcastic golf tournament stuff)

Fox 61 video report
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Nice little nugget USA basketball left unsaid, awaiting further procedure. As to the presentation, it is better balanced yes, with interview of the accuser vs. printed quotes from the accusee. It appears that someone's keeping it in the "news" and the other is carrying on with his business. Well, I am looking forward to the Olympics and beyond (2012-13 season). This business? Seems a little tabloid-nasty to me.
Anyway Biff, thanks for posting this link.
 
Icebear - really sounds like a great project - my dad was a Chaucer prof, and while the text is a very different topic, the 'variations on a theme' aspect is similar. I have two bishops and 4 ministers (Episcopal) in my family tree including one of the first women ordained so while not tempted in that direction myself, the discussions are familiar.
Nan - love the robotics programs.
OneTrick - what a great plan, good luck to you.
And on a slightly partisan note - it is distressing to me when prominent politicians (including a recent presidential canditate) denegrate education, or as was recently quoted, suggest that teaching people to think is not a desired aim of school. It is almost as if we are returning to a period of educational thought where memorization and learning by rote is the norm. And I thought that had left us for good more than a century ago.
Kib - absolutely agree. We have a wide range of experience on this board and the sidebar discussions can be facinating and informative.
 
Icebear said:
No, I have and as a pastor it is completely disheartening because creationism is as bad Biblically as it is scientifically. Actually, I am starting to work on a book of exercises to help people see/discover for themselves the multiple creation stories in Genesis, variances in the Gospel stories of the birth of Christ, entry to Jerusalem, the Last Supper, the garden of Gethsemene, the trials before the Sanhedrin and Pilate, the crucifixion and the resurrection. Then in seeing the variation to explore the richness of witness uncovered in diversity as the Biblical authors attempted to speak the stories of the God of Israel and Jesus of Nazareth to their unique communities.

One of the things to do is to help people make their own discoveries rather than teach an outcome. This is a very old model back to at least the Greeks but in the present climate of teach to test it is difficult. Letting people experience and think takes time. Dogmatism rarely works in faith or politics. Provocation is a much stronger teaching model.
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You tossed out the key word here, dogmatism. I admit I have a cross to bear in regards to dogmatism that leads me to get carried away at times (almost dogmatic you might say). Religious dogma accounts for the creationism problem; some forms of political and economic dogma accounts for why education has become less effective and accessible to the general population, reversing the impact of the GI Bill heyday. With these varied problems there is the common root of some type of dogma that keeps us from learning from alternative views or mistakes. Not to mention there is a lack of humility evident in people, groups or organizations being dogmatic.

Geesh! There I go again. I vow to just stick to basketball on the Boneyard from here on.
 
alexrgct said:
I've always said Dallas is Atlanta without the soul. Only metro in the South where, after the end of institutionalized segregation, Blacks were actually enfranchised economically. In the 1960s, its motto was, "the city too busy to hate." It should be noted, however, that many of its citizens found the time.
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I've always thought of Dallas as a more sophisticated Atlanta. ;)
 
As to the Creationism issue... I'm an agnostic with a highly science based education & background. But the fact a large % of people believe in creationism... and that makes (other) people upset... makes me wonder. Why aren't (the same people) upset that an even larger % of people believe in socialism & Marxism?

Creationism isn't hurting anyone (compared to say, other religious beliefs like Wahhabi radicals). But socialism (as Hayek expressed it) certainly is. Just look at Europe & our own (actual) debt of 140+ trillion. I just find the disconnect curious.

Our universities are full of "smart" educated people (professors in the humanities)... who truly believe American capitalism is the root of all evil & Marxism is the (only) way to Utopia. Economic imbeciles that influence public policy & our youth. Yet it's "creationism" that gets you riled? :rolleyes:
 
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JACKofallTrades said:
As to the Creationism issue... I'm an agnostic with a highly science based education & background. But the fact a large % of people believe in creationism... and that makes (other) people upset... makes me wonder. Why aren't (the same people) upset that an even larger % of people believe in socialism & Marxism?

Creationism isn't hurting anyone (compared to say, other religious beliefs like Wahhabi radicals). But socialism (as Hayek expressed it) certainly is. Just look at Europe & our own (actual) debt of 140+ trillion. I just find the disconnect curious.

Our universities are full of "smart" educated people (professors in the humanities)... who truly believe American capitalism is the root of all evil & Marxism is the (only) way to Utopia. Economic imbeciles that influence public policy & our youth. Yet it's "creationism" that gets you riled? :rolleyes:
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Just a note that we are about a half step away from the cesspool for this thread if this is the direction it is going.
 
JACKofallTrades said:
As to the Creationism issue... I'm an agnostic with a highly science based education & background. But the fact a large % of people believe in creationism... and that makes (other) people upset... makes me wonder. Why aren't (the same people) upset that an even larger % of people believe in socialism & Marxism?

Creationism isn't hurting anyone (compared to say, other religious beliefs like Wahhabi radicals). But socialism (as Hayek expressed it) certainly is. Just look at Europe & our own (actual) debt of 140+ trillion. I just find the disconnect curious.

Our universities are full of "smart" educated people (professors in the humanities)... who truly believe American capitalism is the root of all evil & Marxism is the (only) way to Utopia. Economic imbeciles that influence public policy & our youth. Yet it's "creationism" that gets you riled? :rolleyes:
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Actually ignorance of all sorts, especially willful ignorance, gets me riled, especially when it tends to produce significantly poor educational, military, and social policy. There are strong correlations.

The rest of your post is too bizarre to even respond to. I'm certainly not a Marxist, but Karl wasn't exactly a proponent of the line items that make up an enormous percentage of the debt of nations. In fact, the very notion of the state was not one he espoused; he was fundamentally an anarchist.
 
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