Clingan on the bench game after game

[auror]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

 

[Dabutlerdidit]

I think our ability to make it to the final four will hinge on Dan Hurley making 2 lineup adjustments:
Maximizing DC minutes / maybe even in tandem w/ AS
Optimizing AJax to his strengths, limit the vulnerabilities

If we make these changes, we go far.

 

[jibsey]

He has 15 rebounds in the past two games in 17 minutes of play.

Correct, and they can’t just waltz to the rim with him in there. If Sanogo is out at the 3 point line what is wrong with Clingan under the rim for 10 minutes a game?

 

[mauconnfan]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

How much worst can they be than getting 56? C’mon you have to try making the other team adjust too. We didn’t again we let them let one man help wherever he felt impacted each possession and it worked.

Play zone put your best players on the floor and try to make them guard everyone. It can’t hurt when you’re not scoring anyway.

And Alleyne would’ve made them guard everyone too. He should’ve seen some more minutes. Loose rebounding yes but that’s it, he can defend and defended real well again yesterday.

 

[auror]

How much worst can they be than getting 56? C’mon you have to try making the other team adjust too. We didn’t again we let them let one man help wherever he felt impacted each possession and it worked.

Play zone put your best players on the floor and try to make them guard everyone. It can’t hurt when you’re not scoring anyway.

And Alleyne would’ve made them guard everyone too. He should’ve seen some more minutes. Loose rebounding yes but that’s it, he can defend and defended real well again yesterday.

Alleyne was in during crunch-time. So the adjustment was made. He wasn't particularly effective on offense, but he was in there.

I think playing both bigs the offense would've been better and the defense a lot worse, in this game specifically. A zone defense would've been a lot worse than our defense yesterday, too.

 

[mauconnfan]

Alleyne was in during crunch-time. So the adjustment was made. He wasn't particularly effective on offense, but he was in there.

I think the offense would've been better and the defense a lot worse, in this game specifically. A zone defense would've been a lot worse than our defense yesterday, too.

How do we know? You have to try to get your best scorers in when you can’t score the ball. It’s not like we’ve won close games because we defended better they did we had 3 less. So maybe try to score more to offset it? I’m just saying TRY.

And no Alleyne wasn’t in late game it was mostly AJ and Diarra which is beyond ridiculous. He came out of the time out with Diarra in the line up with us taking the ball in bounds that’s horrific, no excuse.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I’m not seeing anything here that disproves my point. They both have positive impacts on the boards and defense. Swapping one for the other doesn’t solve our spacing problems on offense, or our playmaking issues. It makes our perimeter defense significantly worse, while making our rim defense significantly better, that’s really it. But you also have to understand you’re asking Sanogo to start defending perimeter guys in a way he never has before consistently since he’s been here, if you demand him to share the floor with Clingan. And if there’s people still suggesting Clingan is better than Sanogo, I don’t think we’re watching the same games.

When Josh Boone and Hilton Armstrong shared the floor together, was either asked to guard perimeter players 18 feet from the hoop? If Calhoun was still the coach, Clingan would definitely be starting some games. What the team gains by having both on floor far outweighs anything they’re giving up.

 

[Jimdish255]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

We scored 53 points.

 

[UConniki]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

“There are games for double big but yesterday wasn’t it”. I don’t want to have to be the one to have to break the bad news to you but THEY LOST. By the smallest of margins so any number of small in game adjustments would have been enough to WIN the game, like at the end of a very close game the stubborn stupid UConn coach did just enough Predictably stupid things like leaving Jackson in the game and letting him shoot which is exactly what the opposing coach wanted him to do. Trade coaches and we win the game probably by a lot. When someone tells you who he is ( over and over) you might want to believe him, Hurley might be a good recruiter but he’s a terrible in game coach. You all make fun of Syracuse but they win tournament games. what has Hurley won. They jay not win championships but they win tourney games. Hurley is o fer 2 with the higher ranked team. We had the better team yesterday. He managed to take a 14/0 start and turn it into a 4/7 stretch. Remember the Seton Hall game, not putting your best biggest rebounder shot blocker in for the last shot,
St. John’s, guarding the worst perimeter shooting team in the league on the 3 point line and letting them score in the paint at will and getting blown out at home. He’s not the sharpest tack in the box. ( for 4 million dollars a year). The man’s in over his head . He’s treating DC like all the other players who didn’t get any playing time last year ( DC won MVP of a early season national tournament against some serious competition and now he gets to play 7 minutes so Jackson can prove over and over again for the 3rd year he can’t shoot and while every coach in America knows this the resident genius ( I kid) coach of our team is just too stupid and stubborn to coach a team at this level. Trade coach’s with 1/2 of the teams in the BE with this team and we’d be challenging for a top 2 finish. 2/21 in close games is all the proof any reasonable person would need to realize we’re being handicapped by consistently bad game prep and in game coaching. We have arguably the best talent in the league and we have a 7/7 record.

 

[Brochacho]

When Clingan plays 15 minutes or more in a game, we are 8-2. He averages 13.4 points, 8.7 rebounds and 3 blocks on 78% shooting in those games in 18 minutes per game.

Its not just vs the crappy teams too. When going against the Kenpom top 100 on 15+ minutes (Iowa State, Oregon, Florida, Providence, Marquette) He averages 14.4/9.4/3.2 on 73% shooting in 19 minutes per game.

I know its not practical as a full-time lineup, but given how bad Jackson is on offense you can't tell me Hurley can't go double big for 3-4 minutes a half.

 

[Huskybass]

It baffles me that a kid with Andre's athleticism practices every day and still looks so uncomfortable in terms of scoring. Even a couple layups of the glass each game would make teams respect him a little and open things up for Hawkins and Karaban to get better looks.

 

[mauconnfan]

“There are games for double big but yesterday wasn’t it”. I don’t want to have to be the one to have to break the bad news to you but THEY LOST. By the smallest of margins so any number of small in game adjustments would have been enough to WIN the game, like at the end of a very close game the stubborn stupid UConn coach did just enough Predictably stupid things like leaving Jackson in the game and letting him shoot which is exactly what the opposing coach wanted him to do. Trade coaches and we win the game probably by a lot. When someone tells you who he is ( over and over) you might want to believe him, Hurley might be a good recruiter but he’s a terrible in game coach. You all make fun of Syracuse but they win tournament games. what has Hurley won. They jay not win championships but they win tourney games. Hurley is o fer 2 with the higher ranked team. We had the better team yesterday. He managed to take a 14/0 start and turn it into a 4/7 stretch. Remember the Seton Hall game, not putting your best biggest rebounder shot blocker in for the last shot,
St. John’s, guarding the worst perimeter shooting team in the league on the 3 point line and letting them score in the paint at will and getting blown out at home. He’s not the sharpest tack in the box. ( for 4 million dollars a year). The man’s in over his head . He’s treating DC like all the other players who didn’t get any playing time last year ( DC won MVP of a early season national tournament against some serious competition and now he gets to play 7 minutes so Jackson can prove over and over again for the 3rd year he can’t shoot and while every coach in America knows this the resident genius ( I kid) coach of our team is just too stupid and stubborn to coach a team at this level. Trade coach’s with 1/2 of the teams in the BE with this team and we’d be challenging for a top 2 finish. 2/21 in close games is all the proof any reasonable person would need to realize we’re being handicapped by consistently bad game prep and in game coaching. We have arguably the best talent in the league and we have a 7/7 record.

“They are taking the shots we want them to take so keep doing that…” McDermott live feed in huddle.

Well yes guess he was right. Good news is we made him happy!

 

[Ricker]

Clingan Minutes 14-0
19-12-18-12-16 19-11-18 7-19-15 (7 min vs Ok St Post game Hurley said s/b more)

Big East 7 games under 10 minutes
Xavier 7 and 7
Creighton 9 and 7
Lost all 3 games where he only played 7 minutes.

He's only committed 4 fouls in 3 games (St Johns & Seton Hall where there were a couple phantom fouls in back to back games). He draws fouls on opponents and we let Xavier & Creighton skate.

It's cringe worthy that Hurley's post game comments basically suggest he was totally satisfied with our strategy and shot selection. He explains, Alexander made a couple tough shots, and we didn't convert on a couple multi-shot possessions. In his mind everything else was fine. Dominance on the road isn't expected, but not seeing his own culpability might explain 1-12 road record vs the top of the conference in his tenure.

Play the biggest guy in the league at least 15 minutes and play him near the basket on offense and in the lane on defense. Play shooters with the guy so he can pass inside out. Let him punch you in the face if he gets less minutes and after a couple games, if you've regained consciousness, you'll remember.

 

[Hurleyman216]

If Jackson ever takes more than 6-7 shots in a game again this year I’m going to lose my mind. If we let Karaban take more shots we would’ve won that game. As others have pointed out, Jackson is killing our offense because it allows teams to either clog the paint and play 20 feet off of AJax or allows them to hang at the top of the key waiting on Hawkins or Karaban to come off a screen. It also means that Jackson can’t be the screener, which puts more pressure on Karaban/Sanogo to set the screens. Basically the only time we can generate a decent offensive set with Jackson in there is if Jackson is buried in the corner and we run some action on the opposite side of the court. I’m not a coach or a basketball expert and even I can clearly see this isn’t working. One way I see around this is to just let AJax keep running the baseline back and forth and if his guy isn’t playing him right throw a lob for the dunk. Other than that, if he can’t hit shots he needs to sit. Not sure why Andre decided he was going to have his offensive coming out party against the 2 top teams in the league (Xavier/Creighton). He single handedly lost us both those games. I love Jackson and he does make this team go from very good to elite when he’s on, but man he’s such a liability on offense.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Clingans ability to rebound, score and defend against the layup more than negates some of the minutes Andre has been getting. It’s absurd he will be going into next season with so few minutes under his belt.

Clingan’s moves around the basket with one big defending him, are impressive for a freshman. I remember one game he faked one big out of his shoes with a reverse layup and jammed it on the other side. Sanogo couldn’t do that in a million years.

 

[UConn990411]

Karaban is great and plays the 4. You wanna bench him?

It’s not a one or the other situation. Karaban is second on the team in minutes, and there are games where he’s clearly getting worn out toward the end as a result.

It’s inexplicable that Clingan only plays 13 minutes per game. I don’t love the Sanogo-Clingan combo for extended stretches, but I don’t see why they can’t play 2-5 minutes a night together. If nothing else, it would get Clingan more involved and buy some rest for Karaban.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

It’s not a one or the other situation. Karaban is second on the team in minutes, and there are games where he’s clearly getting worn out toward the end as a result.

It’s inexplicable that Clingan only plays 13 minutes per game. I don’t love the Sanogo-Clingan combo for extended stretches, but I don’t see why they can’t play 2-5 minutes a night together. If nothing else, it would get Clingan more involved and buy some rest for Karaban.

The best lineup for this team includes both Karaban and Clingan. If anyone is going to give Karaban a rest it’s Jackson coming off the bench. Hurley needs to open his eyes or this season is going down the tubes fast.

 

[auror]

“There are games for double big but yesterday wasn’t it”. I don’t want to have to be the one to have to break the bad news to you but THEY LOST. By the smallest of margins so any number of small in game adjustments would have been enough to WIN the game, like at the end of a very close game the stubborn stupid UConn coach did just enough Predictably stupid things like leaving Jackson in the game and letting him shoot which is exactly what the opposing coach wanted him to do. Trade coaches and we win the game probably by a lot. When someone tells you who he is ( over and over) you might want to believe him, Hurley might be a good recruiter but he’s a terrible in game coach. You all make fun of Syracuse but they win tournament games. what has Hurley won. They jay not win championships but they win tourney games. Hurley is o fer 2 with the higher ranked team. We had the better team yesterday. He managed to take a 14/0 start and turn it into a 4/7 stretch. Remember the Seton Hall game, not putting your best biggest rebounder shot blocker in for the last shot,
St. John’s, guarding the worst perimeter shooting team in the league on the 3 point line and letting them score in the paint at will and getting blown out at home. He’s not the sharpest tack in the box. ( for 4 million dollars a year). The man’s in over his head . He’s treating DC like all the other players who didn’t get any playing time last year ( DC won MVP of a early season national tournament against some serious competition and now he gets to play 7 minutes so Jackson can prove over and over again for the 3rd year he can’t shoot and while every coach in America knows this the resident genius ( I kid) coach of our team is just too stupid and stubborn to coach a team at this level. Trade coach’s with 1/2 of the teams in the BE with this team and we’d be challenging for a top 2 finish. 2/21 in close games is all the proof any reasonable person would need to realize we’re being handicapped by consistently bad game prep and in game coaching. We have arguably the best talent in the league and we have a 7/7 record.

It took McDermott 20 years to reach the Sweet 16, 11 years to win his first tournament game. Hurley is in his 13th season and won his first tournament game in his 7th year. The last 2 tournaments have been disappointing, no doubt, and so has this conference season.

Hurley isn't perfect or even great. I've criticized him for plenty of things, even yesterday. He's a good coach, though. A lot better than the armchair rabble on here. Hurley didn't win us the game yesterday, but he didn't lose it, either.

We were a toe away from overtime on the road against a top 10 team in the country when our best player (as voted recently by this board) went 4/13. Hurley put our guys in a position to win. Largely because our defense was really good.

Hawkins missed an open layup with 40 seconds left after he got a mismatch with Kalkbrenner on the perimeter. He makes that, and we win in regulation.

I'm not saying don't try strategies. But ones that don't make sense in the matchup and will significantly weaken our defense are likely not the answer.

 

[RipCity]

Jackson is the worst for spacing on the team, so when he’s not on the court, they should be able to play Sanogo and Clingan together and the spacing would probably be no different with Adama towards a corner. I don’t know why they don’t try it either. For all we know Newton, Hawkins, Karaban, Sanogo, Clingan might be their best lineup

 

[Giddyup5]

I don’t love double bigs at all to be honest. But if that gets DC closer to 15-18 minutes game and gets AJ down to 20-25 it’s necessary.

 

[superjohn]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

Sanogo was 1-6 in the final 17 minutes of that game for 2 points. I'm not at all blaming him, he played a good game overall and was the only guy scoring before that. We didn't get scoring from anywhere, you need to score the ball to win basketball games. It's really difficult to score when it's 4 on 5.

Kaluma doesn't really beat anyone off the dribble, he can't dribble.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Correct, and they can’t just waltz to the rim with him in there. If Sanogo is out at the 3 point line what is wrong with Clingan under the rim for 10 minutes a game?

Did Hilton run out to the three pt line and guard little guys when Josh Boone was under the basket?

 

[kemba]

It seems like people mostly just talk about offensively and I think offensively it can work well both bigs are very skilled and Sanogo can shoot. But defensively is a bigger issue imo. This is already a team that fouls a lot. If you go double big more you’re asking Sanogo to guard quicker 4s more. Then with that lineup you want to surround them with shooting so you probably need to play Karaban at the 3 and most 3s are quicker than him. Yes you can play zone, but that’s not a cure all, nor was yesterday a good time to play zone when we played really good defense

 

[Deleted at users request]

I’ve been saying for awhile that Hurley doesn’t like to play freshman.

Before someone brings up Karaban he’s forced to play. SJ is getting the Akok return from injury treatment. He’s basically going to waste 2 years of his eligibility. I’d probably be pissed if I was him.

 

[husky429]

I was told the Spurs couldn’t draft Tim Duncan because of David Robinson that worked out pretty well didn’t it.

That was 26 years ago dude. The world has changed.

 

[husky429]

If Jackson ever takes more than 6-7 shots in a game again this year I’m going to lose my mind. If we let Karaban take more shots we would’ve won that game. As others have pointed out, Jackson is killing our offense because it allows teams to either clog the paint and play 20 feet off of AJax or allows them to hang at the top of the key waiting on Hawkins or Karaban to come off a screen. It also means that Jackson can’t be the screener, which puts more pressure on Karaban/Sanogo to set the screens. Basically the only time we can generate a decent offensive set with Jackson in there is if Jackson is buried in the corner and we run some action on the opposite side of the court. I’m not a coach or a basketball expert and even I can clearly see this isn’t working. One way I see around this is to just let AJax keep running the baseline back and forth and if his guy isn’t playing him right throw a lob for the dunk. Other than that, if he can’t hit shots he needs to sit. Not sure why Andre decided he was going to have his offensive coming out party against the 2 top teams in the league (Xavier/Creighton). He single handedly lost us both those games. I love Jackson and he does make this team go from very good to elite when he’s on, but man he’s such a liability on offense.

Karaban doesn't have the confidence/personality to hunt his own shot right now. We need to be treating Karaban like Hawkins next season... not in the sets we run for him, but he's the mind of player that MUST be getting 10-12 shots per game, minimum. It's on him to develop a killer mentality, and on the coach to put him in a position to succeed. We are a much better team when Karaban is putting up shots.

 

[husky429]

I don’t love double bigs at all to be honest. But if that gets DC closer to 15-18 minutes game and gets AJ down to 20-25 it’s necessary.

This is my thought too. I'm not a double-big fan on the whole at all. But DC needs 15 minutes a game, and Adama deserves the minutes he's getting. There's really only one way to reconcile those two realities.

Regardless... when DC is getting 25 mpg next season? The Big East should be scared. He's going to send half the conference home with bruised ribs. He's an absolute giant. With a good off-season he could easily average a double-double with a few blocks per game.

 

[Scoe]

That was 26 years ago dude. The world has changed.

Ya that was said at the time.

 

[UConnRock]

Freshman…especially freshman bigs traditionally hit a wall during tougher conference play. Filipowski for Duke played 30 minutes and had 0 points. They talked of him being a lottery pick based on early season.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Jackson is the worst for spacing on the team, so when he’s not on the court, they should be able to play Sanogo and Clingan together and the spacing would probably be no different with Adama towards a corner. I don’t know why they don’t try it either. For all we know Newton, Hawkins, Karaban, Sanogo, Clingan might be their best lineup

Maybe we know it, but Hurley doesn’t.