Cincy and the Big 12

[junglehusky]

@Charley Horse - thanks for your UT perspective. My perception a year ago was that UConn had a nonzero shot at the Big12, so President Herbst should make contacts and tell UConn's story. But I thought at the time the chances although nonzero, were very low. Not that other candidates have more to offer, I did and do think UConn's portfolio overall is as good as or better than other G5 candidates. But I couldn't imagine that most of the B12 schools valued those assets (research, basketball, olympic sports, access to NY + southern New England market).

Once Berry Tramel from Oklahoma wrote that UConn was likely to be a top ~5 candidate, and that at least OU and WVU were pro-UConn, and others started talking about academics and research I started to believe UConn had a much better chance. I know UT is an outstanding research institution. I don't have a great handle on Texas politics but I know there is some complex dynamics at play in the statehouse between UT, A&M and Houston (for starters). I'm confident if/when Susan Herbst meets with UT leadership they'll like what they see on the academics/research side at least. My hope is UT decides to support Cincy/UConn and can convince Baylor, TCU and Tech at least to vote with them.

And our football has been in a prolonged funk but Diaco will at least make it an adequate program!

 

[Charley Horse]

Hey junglehusky, you're right about complex dynamics at the statehouse. I can't even begin to disentangle or describe the multitude of paradoxes involved, but a lot can be guessed based on personalities and precedents.

In 1994 Texas flirted with the Pac-10 while A&M eyed the SEC but the most powerful people in state government were Ann Richards (a Baylor-ex) and Bob Bullocks (a Texas Tech undergrad and Baylor law school grad) so Texas and A&M were not allowed to go anywhere without Baylor or Tech.

Note that Baylor, a private church school was protected, but Houston, a public school was left to fend for itself, simply because of the people who happened to be in power at the time.

I thought that set a precedent and I assumed Texas and A&M would always be tied together regardless of whatever tertiary school of the day was protected, but in 2012 when Rick Perry (an A&M grad) was the most powerful person in Texas, A&M was able to leave the others to join the SEC.

So maybe a new precedent has been set and teams can look out for their best interest.

UofH likes to rally its political supporters but they've never been able to accomplish anything.

The old SWC was hampered by small church schools with small fanbases so I suspect Texas has resented being saddled with Baylor and I am utterly amazed that they acquiesced to allowing TCU in the Big 12. (The story is that TCU's AD took Texas' old AD, DeLoss Dodd's out of for a night of drinking and that's the only reason Texas finally said yes). It also makes me think Texas will never agree to BYU joining the conference.

When I look at UConn, I see everything Texas (the University) values in a partner: a state flagship; great academics; a commitment to excellence; outstanding athletic programs for men and women; great facilities; a dedicated fan base; an appealing destination.

Other candidates don't have all of those things.

I'm really anxious to see how things work out.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Hey junglehusky, you're right about complex dynamics at the statehouse. I can't even begin to disentangle or describe the multitude of paradoxes involved, but a lot can be guessed based on personalities and precedents.

In 1994 Texas flirted with the Pac-10 while A&M eyed the SEC but the most powerful people in state government were Ann Richards (a Baylor-ex) and Bob Bullocks (a Texas Tech undergrad and Baylor law school grad) so Texas and A&M were not allowed to go anywhere without Baylor or Tech.

Note that Baylor, a private church school was protected, but Houston, a public school was left to fend for itself, simply because of the people who happened to be in power at the time.

I thought that set a precedent and I assumed Texas and A&M would always be tied together regardless of whatever tertiary school of the day was protected, but in 2012 when Rick Perry (an A&M grad) was the most powerful person in Texas, A&M was able to leave the others to join the SEC.

So maybe a new precedent has been set and teams can look out for their best interest.

UofH likes to rally its political supporters but they've never been able to accomplish anything.

The old SWC was hampered by small church schools with small fanbases so I suspect Texas has resented being saddled with Baylor and I am utterly amazed that they acquiesced to allowing TCU in the Big 12. (The story is that TCU's AD took Texas' old AD, DeLoss Dodd's out of for a night of drinking and that's the only reason Texas finally said yes). It also makes me think Texas will never agree to BYU joining the conference.

When I look at UConn, I see everything Texas (the University) values in a partner: a state flagship; great academics; a commitment to excellence; outstanding athletic programs for men and women; great facilities; a dedicated fan base; an appealing destination.

Other candidates don't have all of those things.

I'm really anxious to see how things work out.

Thanks for the kind words, Charley. Hope you can spread them around your way.

 

[UT4Big12]

Hey junglehusky, you're right about complex dynamics at the statehouse. I can't even begin to disentangle or describe the multitude of paradoxes involved, but a lot can be guessed based on personalities and precedents.

In 1994 Texas flirted with the Pac-10 while A&M eyed the SEC but the most powerful people in state government were Ann Richards (a Baylor-ex) and Bob Bullocks (a Texas Tech undergrad and Baylor law school grad) so Texas and A&M were not allowed to go anywhere without Baylor or Tech.

Note that Baylor, a private church school was protected, but Houston, a public school was left to fend for itself, simply because of the people who happened to be in power at the time.

I thought that set a precedent and I assumed Texas and A&M would always be tied together regardless of whatever tertiary school of the day was protected, but in 2012 when Rick Perry (an A&M grad) was the most powerful person in Texas, A&M was able to leave the others to join the SEC.

So maybe a new precedent has been set and teams can look out for their best interest.

UofH likes to rally its political supporters but they've never been able to accomplish anything.

The old SWC was hampered by small church schools with small fanbases so I suspect Texas has resented being saddled with Baylor and I am utterly amazed that they acquiesced to allowing TCU in the Big 12. (The story is that TCU's AD took Texas' old AD, DeLoss Dodd's out of for a night of drinking and that's the only reason Texas finally said yes). It also makes me think Texas will never agree to BYU joining the conference.

When I look at UConn, I see everything Texas (the University) values in a partner: a state flagship; great academics; a commitment to excellence; outstanding athletic programs for men and women; great facilities; a dedicated fan base; an appealing destination.

Other candidates don't have all of those things.

I'm really anxious to see how things work out.

Charley, I've been reading the posts in this thread throughout the day and thinking the same as what you posted here.
Texas will never allow UH to be a member of the Big 12. UT will never give UH p5 legitimacy. Since the 2001 bleacher gate incident, UT followed up by deliberately not scheduling UH as an out-of-conference opponent. It is hilarious that the chairman of UH's BOR had the audacity to ask state politicians to force the Big 12 to take UH. Obviously he is not aware of UT's political clout in the state capital and the state governor is a UT grad.

UH says bleachers no-go amid conflicting reports - Houston Chronicle
Board of Regents chairman wants to threaten Houston's way into the Big 12 | Dr. Saturday - Yahoo Sports

There is no question UT would back UConn for Big 12 membership over anyone else. You and I know this because we are familiar with what the UT administrators would be looking for in an expansion candidate.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Hey junglehusky, you're right about complex dynamics at the statehouse. I can't even begin to disentangle or describe the multitude of paradoxes involved, but a lot can be guessed based on personalities and precedents.

Thanks for your insight.

Question, and pardon my ignorance of Texas state politics. A while back in late 2015 I was told that the folks at U Texas were very concerned over the growing political power of A&M in Austin, which you noted. Thus, my Texas friend advised that U Texas may invite U Houston into the XII to 'save' it and in turn guarantee that people aligned with U Houston would vote to support U Texas in any statehouse row with the A&M contingent. Any truth to that?

More recently, I have been advised that the threat of U Oklahoma leaving the XII for the SEC or B1G would be a greater loss to U Texas than internal Texas politics. The Long Horns have realized that adding Houston and Memphis, for example, would guarantee Oklahoma leaving and thus are now less likely to approve U Houston ti the XII.

 

[Charley Horse]

Thanks for your insight.

Question, and pardon my ignorance of Texas state politics. A while back in late 2015 I was told that the folks at U Texas were very concerned over the growing political power of A&M in Austin, which you noted. Thus, my Texas friend advised that U Texas may invite U Houston into the XII to 'save' it and in turn guarantee that people aligned with U Houston would vote to support U Texas in any statehouse row with the A&M contingent. Any truth to that?

More recently, I have been advised that the threat of U Oklahoma leaving the XII for the SEC or B1G would be a greater loss to U Texas than internal Texas politics. The Long Horns have realized that adding Houston and Memphis, for example, would guarantee Oklahoma leaving and thus are now less likely to approve U Houston ti the XII.

Hmm... when Perry was governor he tried to load the Board of Regents with his donors (minions) to oust the president, Bill Powers. But that was the only even-remotely A&M driven political power play I caught wind of. And now both Perry and Powers have moved on and the new governor is a Texas ex.

I can't even fathom what Texas and A&M could be fighting over because politically what's good for one is usually good for the other.

I've heard a few overly dramatic fans anguish over the thought of Houston becoming an SEC town because of all the Aggies there and how the Big 12 needs the UofH to save the Big 12 but for a number of reasons that's not a very valid concern or solution.

And you're right. I too think Texas wants to keep OU and is willing to play ball to do so.

 

[UT4Big12]

Thanks for your insight.

Question, and pardon my ignorance of Texas state politics. A while back in late 2015 I was told that the folks at U Texas were very concerned over the growing political power of A&M in Austin, which you noted. Thus, my Texas friend advised that U Texas may invite U Houston into the XII to 'save' it and in turn guarantee that people aligned with U Houston would vote to support U Texas in any statehouse row with the A&M contingent. Any truth to that?

More recently, I have been advised that the threat of U Oklahoma leaving the XII for the SEC or B1G would be a greater loss to U Texas than internal Texas politics. The Long Horns have realized that adding Houston and Memphis, for example, would guarantee Oklahoma leaving and thus are now less likely to approve U Houston ti the XII.

The present governor is a UT grad. The previous governor was a Texas A&M grad. He tried to cause problems for UT academics, which backfired.

UT has never been under any obligation to invite UH, especially not for any political reason. UT has the largest university system in the state and it carries a lot of weight in state politics.

Not long ago, it was rumored Oklahoma's Boren favored UH as a new member. I don't know what changed, but now Cincinnati seems to be Oklahoma's preference. Memphis was never a consideration by either UT or Oklahoma.

On the Big 12 message boards, OU's president is getting a lot of criticism for the way he conducts himself in public on Big 12 issues that should be kept quiet and only discussed behind closed doors.

 

[Adios]

All UT has to do is keep graduating notable Houston residents and it's good.