Chief’s Briefs - Butler Edition

[freshler40]

Did Newton play better because he turned a corner or did he play better because he wasn't pressured all game the way he has been the last couple of games????

Did we not allow many drives to the basket because we fixed it, or did they just not have the penetrators like ST. Johns, Seton Hall, etc???

The win looks good, but I still have a lot of unanswered questions that a win on Wednesday would probably fix.

Good points, easy to look impressive against a non-driving team. Our bigs weren't in foul trouble as they didn't have to protect against a second penetrating guard. The Butler win was still a much-needed restful game. With Johnson back we now have three towers so two of the three could be on the floor against some offensives. He could be a major defensive change in rotations.

It was also good to see other guards taking the ball up-court and Newton playing in a penetrating mode. This works! We need Jackson to also do much more of this and finish at the rim not pass to the corners. Loved to see the crashing of the offensive boards. This is a strength of ours if we play to it.

 

[UConnDad]

Loose balls were tracked down with reckless abandon. Was obviously a point of emphasis. From Jackson and even Johnson we got after it.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I'm in Ohio for the weekend so I could bet the game. Took Butler and the over - so it was a wash for me.

Basically I had little faith on the blowout - so even though this isn't a good Butler team - that was a decisive win. Our issue, however, is that we have lots of big wins, and we have lost most of our tight games. Need to get a win when we need to perform in the clutch!

Agreed they seemed to have played lose but they looked tight on their ft attempts. That to me was the most concerning. Short arming free throws Clingan and Adama in a blow out win.

 

[imno1]

Agreed they seemed to have played lose but they looked tight on their ft attempts. That to me was the most concerning. Short arming free throws Clingan and Adama in a blow out win.

Adama was 5 for 6 at the line.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Just want to say Adama was huge today but need Double Big and gang rebounding next game.

Having SJ back is also important, even if not 100%.

 

[REB1094]

Loose balls were tracked down with reckless abandon. Was obviously a point of emphasis. From Jackson and even Johnson we got after it.

Sadly I couldn’t watch but I saw a replay last night and my favorite play was Andre coming out of nowhere for a chase down block on a fast break, landing well out of bounds, and then being the first guy back at nearly halfcourt to dive for a loose ball

 

[bendm]

The double team on Sanogo comes from a guard leaving a wing player. If Clingan was 5’ from hope and his man left him to double Sanogo, Clingan would be wide open for dunk.
2 post players has been a popular configuration throughout basketball history:
with UConn:
Okafor and Boone
Thabeet and Adrien
Voskhul and Freeman

Celtics:
Parish and Mchale

Both Clingan and Sanogo are often out on the perimeter setting screens, pulling the opponents largest defender out with them..

sanogo isnt even able to pass it back out to an open 3 pt shooter when he is being doubled yet you expect him to throw up an alley-oop to clingan?

whether setting a screen or trying to space the floor, clingan is not going to bring a smart defender with him out to the 3 pt line. they will sit back and clog up the paint.

and thanks i have a general awareness of bball history, but this isnt the 00's, 90's, or even 80s.

 

[Tenspro2002]

We dominate a team by 30 playing our usual lineup. How is this evidence that we need to shoehorn 2 bigs into the lineup together?

 

[CL82]

UConn's issue is guard play. Twin towers doesn't fix that. If anything, it makes it worse.

Unless, of course, you move Adama to point guard. Given his natural inclination to pass, it seems like the logical move.

 

[Chief00]

UConn's issue is guard play. Twin towers doesn't fix that. If anything, it makes it worse.

I agree guard play is our issue but a 7-2 guy plus a muscle guy - makes you think twice about beating your man off the dribble to the hoop.
How could it be”worse” than 2-5 in our last 7 games? Why not try it? The 4 out plus 1 in has been a disaster - will you acknowledge that?

 

[Chief00]

Unless, of course, you move Adama to point guard. Given his natural inclination to pass, it seems like the logical move.

Jackson and Hawkins with Newton and Diarra off the bench should be our guards.

 

[Chief00]

sanogo isnt even able to pass it back out to an open 3 pt shooter when he is being doubled yet you expect him to throw up an alley-oop to clingan?

whether setting a screen or trying to space the floor, clingan is not going to bring a smart defender with him out to the 3 pt line. they will sit back and clog up the paint.

and thanks i have a general awareness of bball history, but this isnt the 00's, 90's, or even 80s.

It’s funny - why not try something that has worked for years - rather than doing this 4 out and 1 in thing that has never worked for UConn.

 

[Chief00]

Ok riddle me this. Clingan needs to be within 5’ of the basket on both ends of the floor to be effective, So what exactly would sanogos offensive role be when playing next to him?

If Clingan is in the game there would be an automatic double on sanogo whenever he catches the ball down low. Either because Clingan is standing on the perimeter and his defender isn’t guarding him, or because Clingan has brought his dendeder into the paint thereby bringing an extra defender into sanogo’s vicinity.

So it seems like sanogo would be forced to stand in the corner shooting 3s when Clingan is in the game and that’s not how to effectively use our leading scorer imo.

Clingan and Sanogo are 2 of our 4 best players - it is insane to play one only 14 minutes when all the same posters say that the guard position is our weak point.

 

[CL82]

Jackson and Hawkins with Newton and Diarra off the bench should be our guards.

There have been times this season that I would be inclined to agree with that statement. Newton played reasonably well last night however with 11 points, four rebounds and two assists in 25 minutes. Granted, he can get those 25 minutes coming off the bench.

So, no Joey, Calcaterra, or are you envisioning him as more of a three?

 

[bendm]

Clingan and Sanogo are 2 of our 4 best players - it is insane to play one only 14 minutes when all the same posters say that the guard position is our weak point.

that's not an answer to my question. whaley and sanogo were 2 of our top 5 players last year and the offense was still horrendous when we had to play them together. whaley was arguably a better fit next to sanogo than clingan is.

 

[bendm]

It’s funny - why not try something that has worked for years - rather than doing this 4 out and 1 in thing that has never worked for UConn.

but playing double Big last year did not work...you even coined the phrase "10 in 10" regarding our slow starts. so as bad as our O has been lately it was even worse last year when we had to pair whaley and sanogo, and whaley was much better suited to play PF than either sanogo or clingan is.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

sanogo isnt even able to pass it back out to an open 3 pt shooter when he is being doubled yet you expect him to throw up an alley-oop to clingan?

whether setting a screen or trying to space the floor, clingan is not going to bring a smart defender with him out to the 3 pt line. they will sit back and clog up the paint.

and thanks i have a general awareness of bball history, but this isnt the 00's, 90's, or even 80s.

Got that right, usually results in a turnover.

 

[freshler40]

1. They defended MUCH better. There wasn’t nearly as many breakdowns and the switching was back to being elite.
2. Sanogo was used completely different in the first 8min. We were running the offense through our guards and giving different guys post touches. Andre got a post touch on the first possession. And I think I counted Newton with 2 post touches in the first 8 minutes.
3. While we’re on Newton, he was WAY more aggressive attacking the basket in the first 8 minutes. We haven’t seen him that aggressive since Oregon.
4. We already have an identity, we went away from it. But today we dominated the glass, got second chance points, we moved the ball, and played suffocating defense. We took 19 threes. Way less than we have been, which means they made a concerted effort to get action going towards the basket.
5. We also fouled MUCH less. We weren’t into the bonus in the first half until 2:02 remaining. And the second half until 4:38 remaining.

Yes it was only Butler and we shouldn’t be parading down the street. But they definitely played much better than they have been. And even much different than they have been. Wednesday is the real test. But I don’t understand how you can watch the game today and come away feeling bad about what you saw.

Our defense was played under control more. Not a lot of over jumping commitment shown in recent contests. We stayed in front of their offensive players better. Liked to see other guards taking the ball up like Darria/Hawkins and pass more downcourt with better pace. Newton often played off the ball and created baseline opportunities. Maybe this was due to playing a weaker opponent, but the change gave us a new look and better pace instead of the dreadful half-court offense we often play. We were harder to defend against, much less predictable.

 

[freshler40]

We know. Nobody is doubting your ability to keep being wrong about this.

Well zis44, we really don't know if the double bigs are wrong as we haven't seen that show. With some limited minutes and a drill or two it might throw fear into the opponent with total rebound domination. The four in/out hasn't worked on some occasions as well.

 

[August_West]

Well zis44, we really don't know if the double bigs are wrong as we haven't seen that show. With some limited minutes and a drill or two it might throw fear into the opponent with total rebound domination. The four in/out hasn't worked on some occasions as well.

I dont know why people think it would be total rebound domination. Obviously Clingan is the 5 either without Sanogo or with Sanogo and Clingan is for sure a dominating rebounder, but why do people assume Adama would be from the 4 spot? maybe, maybe not.

 

[bendm]

I dont know why people think it would be total rebound domination. Obviously Clingan is the 5 either without Sanogo or with Sanogo and Clingan is for sure a dominating rebounder, but why do people assume Adama would be from the 4 spot? maybe, maybe not.

yeah i dont think the double big lineup would grab enough O rebs and provide enough second chance pts to make up for the fact that we'd have one fewer capable shooter on the floor, and that clogging the paint would make dribble penetration even harder than it already is.

the response to this has been "well the results can't be any worse" but i'd counter with, yeah they can....remember last year's team? we had an even better rebounding unit with sanogo, whaley, jackson and martin. but i'm willing to listen.

 

[coachn]

PLAY CLINGAN

 

[Viet Vet]

A lousy opponent will make you look good.

 

[jibsey]

PLAY CLINGAN

Yes, any chance of a significant post season run has Clingan playing bigger minutes.

 

[Chief00]

There have been times this season that I would be inclined to agree with that statement. Newton played reasonably well last night however with 11 points, four rebounds and two assists in 25 minutes. Granted, he can get those 25 minutes coming off the bench.

So, no Joey, Calcaterra, or are you envisioning him as more of a three?

Clingan is going to be an NBA first round pick, if not a lottery pick. In my opinion, we should at least try to find a spot for him on the court beyond this 14 minutes a game thing. What makes this even more frustrating to me is, we are losing to teams who are beating us up physically, as Providence and St John’s did. Why not try the double big and make teams game plan against it. Personally, it seems we are trying to match up rather than dictating the match ups as Calhoun usually did.
I also don’t see adding minutes for Donovan as taking minutes from Adama. Many posters seem focus on areas he needs to improve in but Adama’s shooting %’s, points, rebounds, post defense is far better than the alternative.

Maybe I am wrong, but at this point in the season, it takes a real favorable roll of the dice to think Samson can play consistent quality minutes against good opponents.

As for Joey C - sure he can be part of that pot of guard minutes - it is such a mix bag of pluses and minuses. Therefore, I would go with the Double Big, make that work and figure out what guards work best with that,

The other big thing is if Sanogo isn’t a first round pick do you think either him or Clingan will be satisfied splitting minutes at one position with portal starting opportunities at just about every top 20 school in the country. Our coaches are hopefully making that issue a priority it should be.

 

[CL82]

Clingan is going to be an NBA first round pick, if not a lottery pick. In my opinion, we should at least try to find a spot for him on the court beyond this 14 minutes a game thing. What makes this even more frustrating to me is, we are losing to teams who are beating us up physically, as Providence and St John’s did. Why not try the double big and make teams game plan against it. Personally, it seems we are trying to match up rather than dictating the match ups as Calhoun usually did.
I also don’t see adding minutes for Donovan as taking minutes from Adama. Many posters seem focus on areas he needs to improve in but Adama’s shooting %’s, points, rebounds, post defense is far better than the alternative.

Maybe I am wrong, but at this point in the season, it takes a real favorable roll of the dice to think Samson can play consistent quality minutes against good opponents.

As for Joey C - sure he can be part of that pot of guard minutes - it is such a mix bag of pluses and minuses. Therefore, I would go with the Double Big, make that work and figure out what guards work best with that,

The other big thing is if Sanogo isn’t a first round pick do you think either him or Clingan will be satisfied splitting minutes at one position with portal starting opportunities at just about every top 20 school in the country. Our coaches are hopefully making that issue a priority it should be.

Yeah, I am inclined to believe that using Donovan and Adama together for extended periods isn’t going to be effective given their skill sets. They are both back to the basket guys and using them both together, just brings another defender into the paint. That said, I have no problem with overlapping them a minute or so, as they come in and out to steal more minutes for Clingan. That would get Donovan an extra four or five minutes right there. I joke about it, but I actually see Adama at the top of the key passing down to Donovan. I think it could be effective.

I’m not sure how effective Samson can be for long stretches, given that he hasn’t played this year, but I absolutely like his size and physicality giving Alex a rest during the game.

As much as I hate to risk reigniting the Bouknight debate because it seems to trigger some people, I don’t think Donovan is “ready“ to play in the NBA, but for different reasons than James. As big a guy as he is, and he is still a young kid in coming into his “grown man” muscles. I think that Clingan would benefit from another season, expanding his game, getting some more range, maturing and just getting to enjoy being a college student one more year. That said, much as I said with Bouknight, I think if someone’s offering you, life-changing money, you probably have to take it.

 

[bendm]

The other big thing is if Sanogo isn’t a first round pick do you think either him or Clingan will be satisfied splitting minutes at one position with portal starting opportunities at just about every top 20 school in the country. Our coaches are hopefully making that issue a priority it should be

i dont see the issue here. there's no way in hell sanogo is a 1st round pick and probably not 2nd round either, so he's either going pro in europe or he can transfer. it makes no difference because clingan is going to be the starting C next year.

 

[Chief00]

i dont see the issue here. there's no way in hell sanogo is a 1st round pick and probably not 2nd round either, so he's either going pro in europe or he can transfer. it makes no difference because clingan is going to be the starting C next year.

Wow - I think you are greatly underestimating what Adama Sanogo brings to the table. A 58% FG shooter and 76% FT, whose our leading rebounder. I know his teammates appreciate him. Karaban’s public comments on the radio after the last game show how much they appreciate him.

 

[Chief00]

Yeah, I am inclined to believe that using Donovan and Adama together for extended periods isn’t going to be effective given their skill sets. They are both back to the basket guys and using them both together, just brings another defender into the paint. That said, I have no problem with overlapping them a minute or so, as they come in and out to steal more minutes for Clingan. That would get Donovan an extra four or five minutes right there. I joke about it, but I actually see Adama at the top of the key passing down to Donovan. I think it could be effective.

I’m not sure how effective Samson can be for long stretches, given that he hasn’t played this year, but I absolutely like his size and physicality giving Alex a rest during the game.

As much as I hate to risk reigniting the Bouknight debate because it seems to trigger some people, I don’t think Donovan is “ready“ to play in the NBA, but for different reasons than James. As big a guy as he is, and he is still a young kid in coming into his “grown man” muscles. I think that Clingan would benefit from another season, expanding his game, getting some more range, maturing and just getting to enjoy being a college student one more year. That said, much as I said with Bouknight, I think if someone’s offering you, life-changing money, you probably have to take it.

Right now their overlap is nearly 4 minutes all season. Sanogo averages 26 minutes a game and Donovan 14. We consistently get beat up by physical Big East teams and our response is playing 4 out with only half the out guys being good shooters.

If we continue down this path or think Johnson is the answer, we won’t have this “problem” next season.

We need to overlap 8-12 minutes a game. Having Adama post and having no rebounds on the 40% of times he misses is also hurts. Calhoun manage to win so many years with two Big guys. He considered it a strength not a liability.

I recognize the coach’s thinking in October was Sanogo would be a 1st round pick but we need to adjust.

 

[Drfla]

Wow - I think you are greatly underestimating what Adama Sanogo brings to the table. A 58% FG shooter and 76% FT, whose our leading rebounder. I know his teammates appreciate him. Karaban’s public comments on the radio after the last game show how much they appreciate him.

First I’d like to say that Sanogo is a very good college player. He does have limitations however. 58% FG shooter from where he takes his shots is average. If he and Clingan played the same amount of minutes Sanogo would not be our leading rebounder.

Sanogo is very good but some posters greatly overstate his impact. He has not performed like the Big East Player of the year. In fact during the 5 games we lost his numbers are 78 points, 31 rebounds and 6 assists. Opposing center numbers are 75 points, 43 rebounds and 7 assists. If, as BEPOY, he outplays the opposing centers by a little bit we probably win 2 or 3 of the lost games.

The above being said, he did make a couple of nice passes from the high post the last game and perhaps he and Clingan can mesh if Sanogo isn’t in the paint while they play together. Defensively they may have to go to a zone against some teams if they play together.

25-27 minutes for Sanogo and 20-22 for Clingan might work.