Charlie Creme's Way-Too-Early Top 25 | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Charlie Creme's Way-Too-Early Top 25

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Bone Dog said:
Why did Texas drop?
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Lost Gaston maybe.

I know it's the bottom of the list but I'm a bit lower on Utah. They really need a great year out of Kneepkins to remain in the top 25. I think this was probably written/updated before yesterday as no mention of Liatu King landing at ND and mo mention of Lily Hansford as well. I also think Nikki Collen who I like has some things to prove at Baylor. I know they made the sweet 16 but I think that was in large part to Kitleys injury. I don't think I see top 10 team. It seems ppl r lower on Oklahoma and TCU than I anticipated.
 
jdote33 said:
Lost Gaston maybe.

I know it's the bottom of the list but I'm a bit lower on Utah. They really need a great year out of Kneepkins to remain in the top 25. I think this was probably written/updated before yesterday as no mention of Liatu King landing at ND and mo mention of Lily Hansford as well. I also think Nikki Collen who I like has some things to prove at Baylor. I know they made the sweet 16 but I think that was in large part to Kitleys injury. I don't think I see top 10 team. It seems ppl r lower on Oklahoma and TCU than I anticipated.
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King just committed lol.
 
These guys can make all the predictions and do all the analysis they want. Geno proved last season just how good of a coach he is. With all those injuries he got his team to the FF. Now his team is loaded. Just think about that for a moment.
 
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Tonyc said:
These guys can make all the predictions and do all the analysis they want. Geno proved last season just how good of a coach he is. With all those injuries he got his team to the FF. Now his team is loaded. Just think about that for a moment.
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Agreed. We could start the season out 0-4 and still probably make a run. People don't understand how hard chemistry is to build sometimes. Look at LSU. Lost to Colorado in a blowout first game, then made it all the way to the Elite 8. We lost to UCLA, Texas, ND, SC, NC St, and we still pulled off a FF.
 
UcMiami said:
Of course Iowa falls off the map - in a single player they lose:
39.3% of their scoring - leader
47.2% of their assists - leader
20.3% of their rebounds - leader
27.3% of their steals - leader
18.2% of their blocks - co-leader
(on the plus side they lose 40% of their TOs.)

Don't care who they have coming in, they aren't replacing all that with 35/minutes per game from any combination of players playing those minutes. It will be a very different team with a very different offense without Clark. Clark either scored or assisted on 67.2% of Iowa's baskets (an astonishing #), and she also took 39.9% of their free throws and 44% of their made free throws.

(And they are also losing two other starters in Martin and Marshall accounting for 23.4% of pts, 22.6% of assists, 18% of rebounds, 30.1 of steals and 21.8% of blocks combined.)
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Does anybody wanna breakdown the percentages south Carolina lost last year?

With that rhetorical question having been posed, I do expect a large drop off in talent for Iowa this year. But the drop off in competitiveness may not be as steep as some think. Lisa is a good coach and may be able to float them along next year at least the top 32 level and perhaps much higher. I would put them at 25 to start the season and returning to Big 10 Contender status within a couple of years.

Iowa is on the map now and their community support is second to none.
 
visitingcock said:
Does anybody wanna breakdown the percentages south Carolina lost last year?

With that rhetorical question having been posed, I do expect a large drop off in talent for Iowa this year. But the drop off in competitiveness may not be as steep as some think. Lisa is a good coach and may be able to float them along next year at least the top 32 level and perhaps much higher. I would put them at 25 to start the season and returning to Big 10 Contender status within a couple of years.

Iowa is on the map now and their community support is second to none.
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Iowa shouldn’t be in the 25 to start. They only landed one good transfer. Lucy Olsen is NOT enough to make up for the loss of Martin, Clark, Davis, and Marshall. It doesn’t matter how good a coach Bluder is. Bottom line is, she lost more than half her starters, and her best defender. Not to mention Lucy Olsen’s performance against good teams with good defense (UCONN) was abysmal. 6 points on 2-12 shooting or something. Bringing in Teagan and Guyton is fine, but they’re unproven.
 
Fanofball said:
Iowa shouldn’t be in the 25 to start. They only landed one good transfer. Lucy Olsen is NOT enough to make up for the loss of Martin, Clark, Davis, and Marshall. It doesn’t matter how good a coach Bluder is. Bottom line is, she lost more than half her starters, and her best defender. Not to mention Lucy Olsen’s performance against good teams with good defense (UCONN) was abysmal. 6 points on 2-12 shooting or something. Bringing in Teagan and Guyton is fine, but they’re unproven.
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Bottom line was that Dawn lost 4.5 starters and her top bench player yeah, it’s different but it’s not necessarily the “ bottom line.”
 
visitingcock said:
Bottom line was that Dawn lost 4.5 starters and her top bench player yeah, it’s different but it’s not necessarily the “ bottom line.”
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Dawn is a whole other level of coaching though. If Dawn is S, Lisa is B. Lisa Bluder is not likely to be able to do what Dawn did with her team because they’re different levels of coach. Bluder mainly relied on CC for 4 years. Now there’s no facilitator and no offense, and loss of the one defender they had. Dawn’s bench was all 5 star. Iowas is not.
 
visitingcock said:
Bottom line was that Dawn lost 4.5 starters and her top bench player yeah, it’s different but it’s not necessarily the “ bottom line.”
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Couldn't help but think of this. :rolleyes:
 
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huskeynut said:
Not worried at all about Charlie's predictions.

#4 is good for us. We have a lot of questions going into next year. Keep 'em guessing.

Texas at #2 is fair. ND at #3 - needs some answers. Biggest question is how will Hidalgo and Miles co-exist?

Iowa not being ranks is a no brainer. They fall back to the middle of the pack in the Big 10. Loose way too much talent to recover in one recruiting class.
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Iowa deservedly drops but they won’t be gone long. They have a good post coming this year in Ava Heiden who will look very good paired with Steulke and the following year they have Addison Deal coming. They may not be elite again for a while but they’re not going away for long.
 
Fanofball said:
Dawn is a whole other level of coaching though. If Dawn is S, Lisa is B. Lisa Bluder is not likely to be able to do what Dawn did with her team because they’re different levels of coach. Bluder mainly relied on CC for 4 years. Now there’s no facilitator and no offense, and loss of the one defender they had. Dawn’s bench was all 5 star. Iowas is not.
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The biggest difference between SC and Iowa is not coaching but rather talent! I don’t care if she did have Clark, getting Iowa to the title game in consecutive years with that roster was a masterful coaching job. Dawn deserves her plaudits as the current queen of the hill but make no mistake, it’s the talent that separates those two teams, not the coaching!
 
Bone Dog said:
I get SC as #1. But Texas and ND don't belong at #2 and #3. Maybe LSU and UCLA... maybe. But UConn belongs somewhere in that scrum for the top 3.

This question of ranking recruiting classes is peculiar and not very meaningful.
  • UConn's is obviously high up there with #1, 4, and 18 -- and Morgan should probably be ranked closer to Allie.
  • Gottlieb at USC has signed a bunch of kids from the top 100 -- 6 altogether -- but only Smith and Heckel look like potential starters, and she needs those. Also, I have to wonder how long she'll be able to hang on to all those kids.
  • SC's class looks second only to UConn's with Edwards, McDaniel and Tac.
  • Duke has a solid freshmen class with Fournier, Roberson and Cotton.
  • tOSU signed Cambridge, but it drops off after that.
  • Texas looks good with Carlton and Lee and Preston.
  • UCLA picked up Dudley and Cain
  • Stanford's class looks unimpressive
I imagine a lot of the top teams will be hitting the portal hard.
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Actually, our class is #1, #7, and #11. Hard to see how we could be anything but #1!
 
Cuango said:
Actually, our class is #1, #7, and #11. Hard to see how we could be anything but #1!
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Plus add in the addition of a needed big who Geno has rated as a #1 level recruit, if she had played her high school age seasons in the USA.. Nobody compares with that foursome.
 
bballnut90 said:
South Carolina is the clear cut #1 if they don’t lose anyone to the portal. The quality of depth they have is just ridiculous. They have a very realistic shot at going undefeated in back to back seasons next year, and they're going to have another insane roster the following year.

Aside from SC, it’s a pretty open field. Texas has a great roster on paper and returns Harmon and brings in top recruits. UCONN has questions about health and post play, but on paper they're as good as anymore. Notre Dame also has a talented roster but they too have questions about post play and will need to figure out chemistry with Miles/Hidalgo both in the backcourt. LSU might have the best trio in the nation in Morrow/Johnson/Williams, but the rest of their roster has question marks. UCLA should be good, USC too as they build on Juju's great freshman year. Oregon State has a great roster coming back provided they don't lose more players to the portal. Other programs like Stanford, Ohio State, and NC State lose a lot but have stars returning. And then there are some up and coming programs looking to build on their season and get to the next level like Oklahoma, Iowa State and Duke.


It's an open field, lots of portal movement is bound to happen and it should shape up for an interesting offseason. I don't think anyone this year would've predicted that South Carolina would become a top 3 point shooting team and go undefeated after graduating 5 starters. No one would've predicted that LSU/UCONN would be 3 seeds in the tournament, or that NC State would make the Final Four. It's going to be a fun season and November can't get here soon enough.
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I doubt very much SC will go undefeated again, not so much because they are going to be a lesser team next season but rather because there are so many very good teams. Let’s face it, going undefeated requires either total dominance or some serious luck once or twice at the right time. Sometimes, both! Last year’s team was a great example. They were very fortunate to be undefeated as they had several close games and one “miracle” escape at Tennessee! To their credit, they accomplished a rare feat but next year they will face better opponents without their biggest weapon who has moved on to the W. Cardoso , while somewhat inconsistent in her dominance, nevertheless was an unsolvable problem for virtually every team in the country.
 
USC lost a bunch of players and replaced them with players that are slower and less athletic. JuJu can score but if she doesn't improve her percentage by 8-10 points USC is not a difficult team to beat if you play tough defense. Maybe UConn shouldn't be 2 but us surely will put my money on UConn if they are healthy against any team in the rankings.
 
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Rowdy831 said:
USC lost a bunch of players and replaced them with players that are slower and less athletic. JuJu can score but if she doesn't improve her percentage by 8-10 points USC is not a difficult team to beat if you play tough defense. Maybe UConn shouldn't be 2 but us surely will put my money on UConn if they are healthy against any team in the rankings.
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SoCal having basically an all freshman roster will be interesting. I wonder how Gottlieb is going to handle the lack of veterans; Rayah is the oldest on on the team remaining I believe.
 
Fanofball said:
SoCal having basically an all freshman roster will be interesting. I wonder how Gottlieb is going to handle the lack of veterans; Rayah is the oldest on on the team remaining I believe.
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What is this all Fr. roster thing? Marshall and Akunwafo are returning Sr., there's Watkins, Samuels was also a Fr. this year who got her feet wet, and then you are adding Sr. tranfers Iriafen and von Oelhoffen. They could easily have a starting 5 without a single Fr. in it.
 
nwhoopfan said:
What is this all Fr. roster thing? Marshall and Akunwafo are returning Sr., there's Watkins, Samuels was also a Fr. this year who got her feet wet, and then you are adding Sr. tranfers Iriafen and von Oelhoffen. They could easily have a starting 5 without a single Fr. in it.
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Forgot about Iriafen and Talia. But there's at least 6 freshman coming in. Iriafen and Talia aren't PGs, which means the PG position likely goes to a freshman (because Juju had more TOs than assists). My point is that the leading role on the team is going to be run by a newbie.
And also, Samuels barely played from what I remember. I don't count her as a veteran if she barely even got the feel of the game.
 
Fanofball said:
Forgot about Iriafen and Talia. But there's at least 6 freshman coming in. Iriafen and Talia aren't PGs, which means the PG position likely goes to a freshman (because Juju had more TOs than assists). My point is that the leading role on the team is going to be run by a newbie.
And also, Samuels barely played from what I remember. I don't count her as a veteran if she barely even got the feel of the game.
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Inexperienced bench is a lot different than a whole team of Fr. Between Watkins and TVO, a Fr. guard really isn't going to be needed to run the show. Padilla was their de facto PG this season, but Juju had the ball in her hands most of the time.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Inexperienced bench is a lot different than a whole team of Fr. Between Watkins and TVO, a Fr. guard really isn't going to be needed to run the show. Padilla was their de facto PG this season, but Juju had the ball in her hands most of the time.
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Except Juju was not great at passing most times. She turned it over more times than she assisted. Plus, I’d rather her play off ball, she needs someone to facilitate to let her get open easier for a better shot.
 
Fanofball said:
Except Juju was not great at passing most times. She turned it over more times than she assisted. Plus, I’d rather her play off ball, she needs someone to facilitate to let her get open easier for a better shot.
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Maybe @LoTrader will back me up, I think TVO played PG about half of her time at OSU. She can certainly initiate the offense and facilitate.
 
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Fanofball said:
Except Juju was not great at passing most times. She turned it over more times than she assisted. Plus, I’d rather her play off ball, she needs someone to facilitate to let her get open easier for a better shot.
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I think you will be disappointed. They will roll back the JuJu offense, similar to Clark with a better forward and better shooting guards.

You will again get lots of turnovers, poor shooting percentage and frustrations for purists. USC will, however, keep winning games, will be very entertaining, pack arenas, and JuJu will again score 1000+ points and closely track Clark's record pace.

If it ain't broke, why fix it. USC 29-5 wins big 10 loses in final four. Fun for everyone!
 
Fanofball said:
SoCal having basically an all freshman roster will be interesting. I wonder how Gottlieb is going to handle the lack of veterans; Rayah is the oldest on on the team remaining I believe.
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Wait, their three best players are Kiki, Jr, Talia, Jr/Sr? & Juju, So! That team is definitely not an all freshman roster!
 
Fanofball said:
Forgot about Iriafen and Talia. But there's at least 6 freshman coming in. Iriafen and Talia aren't PGs, which means the PG position likely goes to a freshman (because Juju had more TOs than assists). My point is that the leading role on the team is going to be run by a newbie.
And also, Samuels barely played from what I remember. I don't count her as a veteran if she barely even got the feel of the game.
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I thought Talia was supposedly going to play the point?
 
packwrap said:
I think you will be disappointed. They will roll back the JuJu offense, similar to Clark with a better forward and better shooting guards.

You will again get lots of turnovers, poor shooting percentage and frustrations for purists. USC will, however, keep winning games, will be very entertaining, pack arenas, and JuJu will again score 1000+ points and closely track Clark's record pace.

If it ain't broke, why fix it. USC 29-5 wins big 10 loses in final four. Fun for everyone!
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I doubt Juju scores as much with another dominant scorer in the lineup. She will be a much better player if she can develop less of a bombs away mentality and learn to be a better facilitator and all round player. She’s going to be an interesting watch next season! Will she improve her percentage, ball handling, and all round play or continue with the scoring thing? Don’t get me wrong, she is and should continue to be a dynamic scorer but I think she can be a lot better if she expands her game. It will be interesting to see how Gottlieb handles her star player now that another superstar has moved in. Personally, I think Iriafen will be the best player on that team next season! I was desperately pulling for her to join us!
 
I think USC will be pretty good next year. But I also think there's a lot to be learned from looking at their loss to UConn. This is a game they had the talent to win. What they didn't have is the game plan to win it, and this falls squarely on the coach. I'm rooting for Gottlieb to succeed, but I think she's still got some growing to do as a coach.

This is also part of the problem with recruiting a transcendent talent. It's hard for a coach to not simply gameplan around her star. But when she runs up against one of the truly well-coached defensive teams -- i.e. not UCLA -- they shut the star down and make the supporting cast get the win. This is what will happen again against a team like UConn or SC. It's what happened to Caitlin every year too. She managed to carry Iowa past a decimated UConn team on the third try, but just barely. And against a fully healthy and well-coached defensive team like SC, there just wasn't a chance.

So next season, USC will be pretty good, among the best of the also-rans. But I'd really like to see Juju have a better chance to shine.
 
cferraro04 said:
Hmmm...South Carolina #1 and UConn #4...let me think on this one.

Ashley Watkins - 6'3...Ice Brady - 6'3"
Raven Johnson - 5'9"....Ashylynn Shade- 5'10"
Cloe Kitts - 6'2"....Ice Brady - 6'3" or Caroline Ducharme - 6'2"
Malaysia Fulwiley - 5'10"...KK Arnold - 5'9"
Te-Hina Paopao - 5'9"...Azzi Fudd - 5'11"
Tessa Johnson - 6'0"...Paige Bueckers - 6'0"
Bree Hall - 6'0"...Aubrey Griffin - 6'1" or Morgan Chelli - 6'2"
Sania Feagin - 6'3"...Jana El-alfy - 6'5"
Adel Tac - 6'5"...Ayanna Patterson - 6'2" / 6'3" or Amari DeBerry - 6'6"
Joyce Edwards - 6'2"...Sarah Strong - 6'2"
Madison McDaniel - 5'9"...Allie Ziebel - 6'0" maybe 6'1"

I think we got it covered...

Maybe #2 preseason is accurate but come January...it is going to be the Huskies baby....
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Adhel Tac is 6'6" and Joyce Edwards is 6'3".
 
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