Changes to 2014 Roster

[MilliniumPrince]

I won't bother arguing, but I have worked in Student Affairs for years, five in judicial affairs. It is bigger than the amount. Especially for a young man who represents an institution of higher learning. We will just have to disagree and that is fine. But when laws are broken the police are usually involved.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I won't bother arguing, but I have worked in Student Affairs for years, five in judicial affairs. It is bigger than the amount. Especially for a young man who represents an institution of higher learning. We will just have to disagree and that is fine. But when laws are broken the police are usually involved.

What are you talking about?

Is it possible that student government, faculty supervision, and judicial affairs at a University are applying a totally different standard of review and enforcement for student athletes, specifically football scholarship athletes, than what is applied for other student athletes (men's and women's basketball) or for the general student population?

How can that be? Should not these student athletes then be granted other different standards as well? Academic admission standards? Stipend allowances?

 

[MilliniumPrince]

What are you talking about?

Is it possible that student government, faculty supervision, and judicial affairs at a University are applying a totally different standard of review and enforcement for student athletes, specifically football scholarship athletes, than what is applied for other student athletes (men's and women's basketball) or for the general student population?

How can that be? Should not these student athletes then be granted other different standards as well? Academic admission standards? Stipend allowances?

I was responding to someone who quoted an earlier post. What are you talking about?

 

[BlueMAB]

Who


Who is going to stick around and wait for the police to arrive given that ultimatum? In the case of homeowners it is easy to identify the homeowner for obvious reasons. Athletes are easily identifiable. The average student on a campus with 15k, students would be harder.

What do you think happens now? Either the accused sticks around voluntarily or he/she doesn't and the store detains them (when possible).

If the kid runs they run. But if they are caught and detained that's when you give them the choice.

 

[Husky25]

I think the incident of theft is unrelated to the dismissal. Hemingway is not on the team because he did not enroll for the Spring 2014 semester. He didn't enroll for academic reasons.

By the way, home owners associations levy fines for violations to their by-laws which are intended to keep property values from decreasing by an inconsiderate neighbor or the like. They do not supersede criminal code. When crimes are committed the police are most assuredly involved. Leaving ones trash receptacle in front of the garage for too long is finable by the association, but is not a crime by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Confident Carl]

Up at Syracuse, you get caught stealing a $100+ item and what happens?

Up at Syracuse they get away with the assistant basketball coach molesting ball boys!

 

[Confident Carl]

desmondconner2:58pm via Twitter for iPhone
Three #UConnFootball players who are not on team and out of school: TE E.J. Norris, RB Joe Williams and OL Xavier Hemingway....


NHRJimFuller3:03pm via TweetDeck
OT Xavier Hemingway, RB Joe Williams and TE E.J. Norris no longer enrolled at #UConn Post original url/1fifIyo (article updated)

>>Monday, January 27, 2014
Hemingway, Norris, Williams gone from UConn

Time for a roster update and at this time of the year it is rarely good news. Three players who could have played significant roles in the upcoming season are no longer enrolled. Offensive tackle Xavier Hemingway, who got a start at right tackle in place of an injured Kevin Friend, running back Joe Williams and defensive end turned tight end E.J. Norris are no longer with the program.Williams was arrested last year on larceny charges, suspended from the team and never reinstated. Hemingway was also arrested on larceny charges after being accused of stealing $19 worth of merchandise on Nov. 29.<<

There is no 2014 roster posted as of yet...

Youth mistakes. Unfortunately this is all part of the learning process. These guys are given full scholarships to a prestigious state University and they blow the opportunity. Hopefully they will realize their errors and tighten up their acts and not spiral downward. The team will rebound, but more importantly I hope the young men do as well.

 

[noeynox]

What do you think happens now? Either the accused sticks around voluntarily or he/she doesn't and the store detains them (when possible).

If the kid runs they run. But if they are caught and detained that's when you give them the choice.

You do realize that is where it gets tricky. If you have store personel trying to detain somebody, and the person committing the theft pushes someone to run i.e. uses force you end up with some low level robbery. I've seen it happen just like that. It is not so simple as to "exclude police from the process". Do I think it is silly to make someone go to court for stealing 19.00$ worth of crap. Yeah I do. But hell, don't stel 19.00 worth of crap. Petty theft is a major issue because stores lose millions in cumilative losses every year. Most of it is from career thiefs and drug addicts that steal anything they can get their hands on like razor blades and eye glass frames etc. Small things i.e easy to steal that can easily be fenced and resold at a discount to the going rate. There is a huge market for that type of thing.

I do feel you, I really do. This kid was most likely not doing any of the above and grabbed something silly like some headphones or something. I see a lot of young people get caught up in stealing some minor item and never do it again.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

What amazes me about schools is that physical assault is treated with less severity than theft.

I wonder if North Carolina police will charge certain UNC football and basketball players with theft of a degree? I mean, its 23K for tuition plus room & board in-state and $46 for out-of-state, which works out to $92K or $184 for a 4 year degree. That is a major larceny.

 

[Confident Carl]

You do realize that is where it gets tricky. If you have store personel trying to detain somebody, and the person committing the theft pushes someone to run i.e. uses force you end up with some low level robbery. I've seen it happen just like that. It is not so simple as to "exclude police from the process". Do I think it is silly to make someone go to court for stealing 19.00$ worth of crap. Yeah I do. But hell, don't stel 19.00 worth of crap. Petty theft is a major issue because stores lose millions in cumilative losses every year. Most of it is from career thiefs and drug addicts that steal anything they can get their hands on like razor blades and eye glass frames etc. Small things i.e easy to steal that can easily be fenced and resold at a discount to the going rate. There is a huge market for that type of thing.

I do feel you, I really do. This kid was most likely not doing any of the above and grabbed something silly like some headphones or something. I see a lot of young people get caught up in stealing some minor item and never do it again.

The point is these failures effect the players psyche and development into not only a football player but as a responsible citizen. That is what Ernest Jones role on the team is. He wants to prepare these kids for life. Unfortunately Jones got some
adverse publicity because of the specific words he used about "Jesus in the huddle" but in general this is what he was referring to. I am sure Jones and the other coaches will use these examples in an effort to prevent the same mistakes from occurring in the future. IMO it is further evidence (on the petty theft subject) that the players should be given some kind of stipend so they have spending money because playing football and going to classes, studying, etc. is a full time job.

 

[BlueMAB]

Leaving ones trash receptacle in front of the garage for too long is finable by the association, but is not a crime by any stretch of the imagination.

Driving the wrong way down a one way road in a condo is a crime. It's also a finable offense by the HOA. The HOAs don't involve the cops though.

 

[BlueMAB]

IMO it is further evidence (on the petty theft subject) that the players should be given some kind of stipend so they have spending money because playing football and going to classes, studying, etc. is a full time job.

How much money did Hemingway have in his pocket? In his bank account? What did he steal? If you can't answer any of that, you can't make that argument.

 

[BlueMAB]

You do realize that is where it gets tricky. If you have store personel trying to detain somebody, and the person committing the theft pushes someone to run i.e. uses force you end up with some low level robbery. I've seen it happen just like that. It is not so simple as to "exclude police from the process". Do I think it is silly to make someone go to court for stealing 19.00$ worth of crap. Yeah I do. But hell, don't stel 19.00 worth of crap. Petty theft is a major issue because stores lose millions in cumilative losses every year. Most of it is from career thiefs and drug addicts that steal anything they can get their hands on like razor blades and eye glass frames etc. Small things i.e easy to steal that can easily be fenced and resold at a discount to the going rate. There is a huge market for that type of thing.

I do feel you, I really do. This kid was most likely not doing any of the above and grabbed something silly like some headphones or something. I see a lot of young people get caught up in stealing some minor item and never do it again.

I know you understand where I'm coming from, and I'm not picking a fight, just posting my thoughts.

The "tricky" part you described is the same dilemma in every store in the country, it's what UConn deals with now without doing anything I suggested. The store can't call the police until the theft actually occurs, and even then there is a response time.

Just to be clear, I'm not excusing his behavior, he deserves to be punished. I'm not suggesting the court throw out the charges, he'll probably get AR, and this will go away like it never happened.

Again, to be clear, I'm not suggesting every store shouldn't involve the police. I'm not saying UConn should never call the police. Just saying UConn could try some policy where they don't call the cops first, and try to use an alternative.

 

[freescooter]

You do realize that is where it gets tricky. If you have store personel trying to detain somebody, and the person committing the theft pushes someone to run i.e. uses force you end up with some low level robbery. I've seen it happen just like that. It is not so simple as to "exclude police from the process". Do I think it is silly to make someone go to court for stealing 19.00$ worth of crap. Yeah I do. But hell, don't stel 19.00 worth of crap. Petty theft is a major issue because stores lose millions in cumilative losses every year. Most of it is from career thiefs and drug addicts that steal anything they can get their hands on like razor blades and eye glass frames etc. Small things i.e easy to steal that can easily be fenced and resold at a discount to the going rate. There is a huge market for that type of thing.

I do feel you, I really do. This kid was most likely not doing any of the above and grabbed something silly like some headphones or something. I see a lot of young people get caught up in stealing some minor item and never do it again.

You never know. Sometimes its a one time thing, but not always. A good friend of mine runs a retail outlet and has a policy of 1st time you get caught you get off with paying for the item. Second time he calls the cops. This is for minor stuff, not major shoplifting. That gets prosecuted from the getgo. But I can see how in a college area you'd crack down. Too many opportunities for people to do dumb stuff. But at the end of the day, that's not why Hemingway is leaving. He apparently is an academic casualty.

 

[Husky25]

Driving the wrong way down a one way road in a condo is a crime. It's also a finable offense by the HOA. The HOAs don't involve the cops though.

Your example lacks information for me to properly comment (e.g. is the road in the condo complex actually considered private property?). Secondly, Traffic violations typically have to be caught by the authorities in the act to prosecute, otherwise I believe legally it amounts to hearsay...at least one private citizen's word vs. another. For example, I drove 74 MPH on my way home yesterday, but a cop can't give me a ticket today for doing so.

Theft is different. Be that as it may, the way that I interpreted the story, I believe the theft is independent of Hemingway's lack of enrollment for the Spring 2014 semester.

 

[Husky25]

Again, to be clear, I'm not suggesting every store shouldn't involve the police. I'm not saying UConn should never call the police. Just saying UConn could try some policy where they don't call the cops first, and try to use an alternative.

I also am not trying to pick a fight but I think schools and stores surrounding a learning environment have to be a little stricter and consistent with their policies. This is an institution of higher learning that is intimately involved of shaping the future of (by and large) young men and women. I would hope that throwing the book, so to speak, at a first timer would discourage them from doing it again. Lets not disregard the possibility that while this may be the first time Hemingway got caught, it may not be his first experience doing what he did.

 

[Confident Carl]

Your example lacks information for me to properly comment (e.g. is the road in the condo complex actually considered private property?). Secondly, Traffic violations typically have to be caught by the authorities in the act to prosecute, otherwise I believe legally it amounts to hearsay...at least one private citizen's word vs. another. For example, I drove 74 MPH on my way home yesterday, but a cop can't give me a ticket today for doing so.

Theft is different. Be that as it may, the way that I interpreted the story, I believe the theft is independent of Hemingway's lack of enrollment for the Spring 2014 semester.

There is a serious move by the P5 to pay student athletes. The fact is the P5 are positioning to pay student athletes because they can and to differentiate from all the rest. UCONN wants to be part of the Big boys club and will most likely go with the flow even though UCONN brings in less than the P5. According to what I have read UCONN is in the middle of the pack in revenue (around 65 Million per year)

When it comes to petty crimes, the question is do student athletes have spending money? If they come from lesser means probably not. The Power 5 conferences are on record that they want to pay players, leaving the non P5 schools in a difficult position due to lack of funds. As long as these minor theft crimes keep popping up, it will further fuel the discussion and the need for paying student athletes.

Here are three good articles on the subject of paying student athletes the second is on the subject of unionization that I picked up today. The last one contains Warde Manuals views on stipends, etc. This appears to be the way things are headed.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...res-to-be-key-issue-at-annual-ncaa-convention

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...cats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union

http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2013/09/manuel-leads-huskies-through-changing-times-in-athletics/

Not saying that paying student athletes will totally eliminate petty thievery but the argument will most certainly be made for that and a host of other reasons.

 

[Husky25]

Not saying that paying student athletes will totally eliminate petty thievery but the argument will most certainly be made for that and a host of other reasons.

It's good that you aren't saying that because no matter how much you pay a student athlete, they will always want more. Johnny Manziel comes from a family of means and he still accepted $10,000 for autographs. He doesn't need the money, he went after it anyway. You could always use more.

Other than that, I believe stipends are a long way off from happening for simply the reasons that Manuel stated: Cost of living, Title IX, etc.

BTW, that third article is great.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I wonder if North Carolina police will charge certain UNC football and basketball players with theft of a degree? I mean, its 23K for tuition plus room & board in-state and $46 for out-of-state, which works out to $92K or $184 for a 4 year degree. That is a major larceny.

It ain't stealing if the University gave it to you. Not sure you can charge the players.

Deeper, yet much dumber question, can graduates of UNC during that time sue the univeristy for having to earn and pay for the same degree/credits the university apparenlty gave away to athletes?

 

[huskysupporter]

Why should a student at a university be treated differently than a member of the public? Larceny is a crime. A minor one in the eyes of the law, but still a crime.

 

[BlueMAB]

Not saying that paying student athletes will totally eliminate petty thievery but the argument will most certainly be made for that and a host of other reasons.

How much money did Hemingway have in his pocket? In his bank account? What did he steal?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddi...or-poor-feeling-deprived-makes-us-steal-more/

 

[BlueMAB]

Why should a student at a university be treated differently than a member of the public? Larceny is a crime. A minor one in the eyes of the law, but still a crime.

Who made that argument?

$19? At what point does the school stop pressing charges for this type of nonsense? On anyone, not just athletes. There has to be a better way to handle this...

And can we stop pretending like all crimes get prosecuted? Am I the only one who has gotten off with a warning instead of a ticket?

Am I the only one who has been in a bar fight where the cops said you can both press charges, or you can both just walk in opposite directions?

Yes it's a crime, but that doesn't mean sending him through the courts is the "best" course of action. Especially considering the availability of AR which means, short of the $100 for bond, Hemingway will very likely get probation for up to 2 years and the charges will be dismissed. What's the punishment?

Nothing but the $100. You can punish, and punish more responsibly, without prosecuting. Require him to do 20 hours of community service and pay a $100 fine and ban him from the co-op for a year. I'd say that's a far greater punishment than 2 years of probation that ends with a clean record.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

In recruiting-We can't get the better criminals...they traditionally have gone to the U.....

We need better CRIMINALS... Darn, I guess we need to hire a recruiter from Miami to get better CRIMINALS.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

What is? The theft? Then make the fine bigger. Suspend him from football for a month or longer. I didn't say the kid shouldn't be punished, but if you're going to argue that theft of $19 worth of merchandise is worth getting the police and courts involved then telling us why would help. There is a university disciplinary board.

Nobody is going to jail over $19. Why do the police and courts have to be involved? Because of the moral outrage over "petty theft"?

And if you're going to argue that theft is theft and the dollar amount doesn't matter, the courts don't agree with you. That's why there is petty larceny and grand larceny.

The difference between some random person stealing from a store, and a student stealing from the university he/she attends is what's important here. A store has no right to punish someone for stealing. The school does. The school can easily hand out punishment for this behavior without involving the courts. Make it part of the honor code.

Sorry, Theft is theft. As a business owner, I don't care if said person stole a $1.25 bag of M&Ms or a $35K Mustang. If you reward anybody with a theft (by a months suspension), what will be next?? Rape... ?? Murder??

U of F let their players run wild (ie Aaron H.), should we?? Hell no...Do you want to hear: 'Today, NFL player Joe Smith was arrested for Murder. Joe Smith, a RB for the Pats, was a star at UCONN". I don't!! Do you??

 

[BlueMAB]

Sorry, Theft is theft. As a business owner, I don't care if said person stole a $1.25 bag of M&Ms or a $35K Mustang. If you reward anybody with a theft (by a months suspension), what will be next?? Rape... ?? Murder??

U of F let their players run wild (ie Aaron H.), should we?? Hell no...Do you want to hear: 'Today, NFL player Joe Smith was arrested for Murder. Joe Smith, a RB for the Pats, was a star at UCONN". I don't!! Do you??

In addition to ignoring the post where I laid out a punishment more severe than what he will get in court, you've just treated petty theft as a gateway drug to rape and murder.

If that's not crazy, even for this place, I don't know what is.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

In addition to ignoring the post where I laid out a punishment more severe than what he will get in court, you've just treated petty theft as a gateway drug to rape and murder.

If that's not crazy, even for this place, I don't know what is.

Wing U-Conn:

You wrote 'A store has no right to punish someone for stealing. The school does. The school can easily hand out punishment for this behavior without involving the court'. I think that is a wrong attitude. A store HAS the RIGHT to get the courts involved. If John Doe walked into Wal-Mart and 'removed' a 90 inch HD TV set, you don't think Wal-Mart should charge John Doe??

Anybody who is on any team (from elementary school to the pros) should set a standard. Unfortunately, some people are given passes because they are special. Petty Theft is theft... if my kids ever stole ANYTHING from a store... I'll take them to the police. My kids know I would.

 

[sportsart]

Sorry, Theft is theft. As a business owner, I don't care if said person stole a $1.25 bag of M&Ms or a $35K Mustang. If you reward anybody with a theft (by a months suspension), what will be next?? Rape... ?? Murder??

U of F let their players run wild (ie Aaron H.), should we?? Hell no...Do you want to hear: 'Today, NFL player Joe Smith was arrested for Murder. Joe Smith, a RB for the Pats, was a star at UCONN". I don't!! Do you??

Yes, petty larceny is a gateway crime that leads to rape and muder.

 

[BlueMAB]

Wing U-Conn:

You wrote 'A store has no right to punish someone for stealing. The school does. The school can easily hand out punishment for this behavior without involving the court'. I think that is a wrong attitude. A store HAS the RIGHT to get the courts involved. If John Doe walked into Wal-Mart and 'removed' a 90 inch HD TV set, you don't think Wal-Mart should charge John Doe??

Anybody who is on any team (from elementary school to the pros) should set a standard. Unfortunately, some people are given passes because they are special. Petty Theft is theft... if my kids ever stole ANYTHING from a store... I'll take them to the police. My kids know I would.

You should read the rest of my posts. I never said a store didn't have the right to call the cops. Not once. A store can't punish a thief. They either let it go, or call the cops. A university has more leeway. The student is part of the community, the student attends that school as a privilege. Not a right. The school can punish that student and restrict his/her privileges and do so more effectively than the courts choose to. Walmart has no such power, nor should they.

A 90 inch TV isn't petty theft. It's worth a few thousand dollars.

If your kids stole $20 worth of merchandise, you can take them to the cops. The courts will give them accelerated rehabilitation which is nothing more than probation and then the charges are dismissed and it never shows up on their record.

Basically, they would be given a pass.

You're really, really, missing my point. It almost seems intentional. I've said more than enough on this topic, read the rest of my posts.

I'm talking about petty theft, you're talking about grand larceny, rape, and murder.

 

[Kingspoint]

U should be thanking HCBD for sending the msg early on...thievery, academic incompetence, and any other activity that sheds a bad light on UConn or the team will be dealt with harshly and coomensurate with the offense. I did like this about FHCRE's approach to the team. They knew where they stood.

 

[Husky25]

U should be thanking HCBD for sending the msg early on...thievery, academic incompetence, and any other activity that sheds a bad light on UConn or the team will be dealt with harshly and coomensurate with the offense. I did like this about FHCRE's approach to the team. They knew where they stood.

Hemingway did not enroll for the Spring semester. The theft appears to have occurred after the failure to enroll. The failure to enroll is reported to be related to academics, not the theft. Therefore, the University does not have the authority to dole out or withhold punishment either (BTW, only the courts do) and would not be expected to treat this case like it would if an active student was involved, let alone a high profile athlete. The young man is over the age of 18 and has no shot at being treated like a juvenile. He should be processed through the courts like any other petty crime.