Cause for concern

[easttexastrash]

To continue the car analogy. What we have are 3 new model twelve-cylinder Ferarri freshmen in need of a tune-up. There are other new model four cylinder Toyota freshmen in WCBB who are who are competent, but no amount of tuning will turn them into Ferarris. The mechanics are at work in Geno's garage adjusting those superchargers to unleash the potential.

I have to say that Lloyd and Alexis Jones fall into the Ferrari category. Both are better players than Jefferson and Tuck at this point in their careers. IMO, Prince is also performing better than those two now that she is healthier and getting some meaningful playing time. To imply that no other freshmen in the country are as talented as the UCONN three is inaccurate, IMO.

 

[Dove]

I expect the motivation for playing the all-sub team for the last 13-14 minutes of the second half against Cincinnati was a combination of not wanting to completely embarrass Jamelle and also to give them some experience. I, for one, think that the results were very disappointing and a legitimate cause for concern. Remember: this freshman class was universally acknowledged as being the #1 recruiting class in the country--3 players in the top 25. Collectively they look like anything but. Breanna Stewart has shown flashes of being a very good player. But only flashes. As the top-rated high school player in the country, you'd have to say she's a disappointment so far. Moriah Jefferson is a little buzzsaw, but she's really not much of a threat at all offensively. And I don't think she's shown a great deal of promise as a play-maker, either. Morgan Tuck looks lost out there for the most part. She absolutely cannot put the ball on the floor; she gets stripped or dribbles it off her foot or loses it virtually every time she tries. If she's lucky enough to get a rebound, she throws the ball up wildly from 2 feet away half the time. I hate to say it because, believe me, I'm as big a UConn fan as any of you and I absolutely loathe ND, but Jewell Loyd is better than all 3 of them put together at this point.

First off, thank you for interest in UConn basketball.

Second, are you new here? Every year its the starting 5 and the rest have to keep up, for the most part. Geno has recently said that noobs will most often play with a group of 4 starters. I f more than 1 noob has to play at the same time expect craziness and exasperation.

 

[redcee3]

Based on the penchant for harsh criticism and the lengthy diatribes of his/her position, I believe that the OP, redcee3, is the same golden doomer who added his $.02 to the recent Fuller blog about UConn wcbb recruiting. I commented about this in that (Fuller/Recruiting) thread.

I can sum up his thesis in one word: TROLL

Nope--wasn't me. What I said was absolutely true: I loathe ND. Sorry if my criticism of the best freshman class in the country doesn't meet with your approval, but if you're getting everything you expected from them, then I think your expectations were/are suspect. As I said, Breanna Stewart shows flashes of being a very good player. At the moment she does not play like the top recruit in the country. What is more worrying, however, is that she doesn't look much different now than she did in the first game against Charleston. I don't put much stock in the number of points she's scored, either: a lot of those points have been accumulated against the Little Sisters of the Poor and in garbage time. They are not an accurate reflection of how she has played. Morgan Tuck has been under-whelming and that's the brutal truth. This is a girl who has been on 3 gold medal winning US teams and was ranked #5 on the USA Today Super 25 before she came out. And you're telling me that what you see is everything you expected? What I said about Stewart is even more true in Tuck's case: she hasn't improved one iota from her first game until last night. But...if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. Won't be the first time.

 

[redcee3]

First off, thank you for interest in UConn basketball.

Second, are you new here? Every year its the starting 5 and the rest have to keep up, for the most part. Geno has recently said that noobs will most often play with a group of 4 starters. I f more than 1 noob has to play at the same time expect craziness and exasperation.

Yes, I am new here. That's why it says "New Member" under my name. Yes, yes, noobs have to earn their pt; noobs need time to grow, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. Nobody's saying they should look like the finished product, but I am saying they should at least show evidence of what made them the #'s 1, 2, and 6 recruits in the HoopGurlz class of 2012.

 

[Georgestarr7]

Nope--wasn't me. What I said was absolutely true: I loathe ND. Sorry if my criticism of the best freshman class in the country doesn't meet with your approval, but if you're getting everything you expected from them, then I think your expectations were/are suspect. As I said, Breanna Stewart shows flashes of being a very good player. At the moment she does not play like the top recruit in the country. What is more worrying, however, is that she doesn't look much different now than she did in the first game against Charleston. I don't put much stock in the number of points she's scored, either: a lot of those points have been accumulated against the Little Sisters of the Poor and in garbage time. They are not an accurate reflection of how she has played. Morgan Tuck has been under-whelming and that's the brutal truth. This is a girl who has been on 3 gold medal winning US teams and was ranked #5 on the USA Today Super 25 before she came out. And you're telling me that what you see is everything you expected? What I said about Stewart is even more true in Tuck's case: she hasn't improved one iota from her first game until last night. But...if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. Won't be the first time.

I'm not understanding wtf this accomplishes... my thoughts are that the freshmen are doing great. Breanna arrived with unreal expectations put on her from the getgo. I cautioned in a post last year that it would take time and some body maturation for her to hit her stride and I see her well on her way. M.J. and M.T. are exceeding any of my expectations so my only suggestion is to chill brothers and sisters, the best is yet to come and when it does......

 

[HuskyNan]

I have to say that Lloyd and Alexis Jones fall into the Ferrari category. Both are better players than Jefferson and Tuck at this point in their careers. IMO, Prince is also performing better than those two now that she is healthier and getting some meaningful playing time. To imply that no other freshmen in the country are as talented as the UCONN three is inaccurate, IMO.

Perhaps if Loyd and Jones had suffered 1. the onset of a stress fracture or 2. a very strong, lingering stomach flu, they would also be a bit behind their highly ranked peers.

 

[HuskyNan]

Nope--wasn't me. What I said was absolutely true: I loathe ND. Sorry if my criticism of the best freshman class in the country doesn't meet with your approval, but if you're getting everything you expected from them, then I think your expectations were/are suspect. As I said, Breanna Stewart shows flashes of being a very good player. At the moment she does not play like the top recruit in the country. What is more worrying, however, is that she doesn't look much different now than she did in the first game against Charleston. I don't put much stock in the number of points she's scored, either: a lot of those points have been accumulated against the Little Sisters of the Poor and in garbage time. They are not an accurate reflection of how she has played. Morgan Tuck has been under-whelming and that's the brutal truth. This is a girl who has been on 3 gold medal winning US teams and was ranked #5 on the USA Today Super 25 before she came out. And you're telling me that what you see is everything you expected? What I said about Stewart is even more true in Tuck's case: she hasn't improved one iota from her first game until last night. But...if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. Won't be the first time.

You're aware Moriah was sick with the flu for 2-3 weeks and that Morgan had a leg injury, right?

 

[easttexastrash]

Perhaps if Loyd and Jones had suffered 1. the onset of a stress fracture or 2. a very strong, lingering stomach flu, they would also be a bit behind their highly ranked peers.

My point is that to imply that Jones and Lloyd are Toyotas and that Jefferson and Tuck are Ferraris is a bit dismissive of their talents. Both of those players are proving to be top talents and would be on an all-freshman team, along with Stewart, Bashaara Graves and Courtney Walker of TAMU, who was absolutely ranked too low at 32. Walker can flat out play the game, as evidenced by her 20 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in the UCONN game. That is very impressive considering that UCONN has the best defense in the nation.

 

[HuskyNan]

My point is that to imply that Jones and Lloyd are Toyotas and that Jefferson and Tuck are Ferraris is a bit dismissive of their talents. Both of those players are proving to be top talents and would be on an all-freshman team, along with Stewart, Bashaara Graves and Courtney Walker of TAMU, who was absolutely ranked too low at 32. Walker can flat out play the game, as evidenced by her 20 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in the UCONN game. That is very impressive considering that UCONN has the best defense in the nation.

UConn generally chooses a player to leave open in order to lock down the opponents top scorer(s). If I were Geno, I would leave a freshman open in order to smother Kelsey Bone. Kudos to Walker for making UConn pay for this strategy but other than a game vs Liberty, she hasn't replicated those results. Bone had 8 points, btw, and no one else on TAMU had more than 7.

 

[arch]

The OP is overstating things and is possibly a troll. That being said, although I wouldn't Lloyd over UConn's three freshmen combined, FOR THIS YEAR ONLY, I might want Tiffany Hayes. And that is absolutely a cause for concern.

Heading into this season, I thought UConn had a chance to be great for a few reasons:

• Returning every player other than Tiff who contributed meaningfully to a team that was one missed O-board from the NCAA finals last season (not to mention only five points shy of Baylor in Waco).
• The nucleus of Bria Hartley, Stef Dolson, and KML, was really, really young last year. Improvement was to be expected.
• Kiah Stokes had shown flashes and had a chance to be a really dynamic backup center, possibly the best in the country
• Kelly seemed to find her groove late last season in terms of scoring when she needed to on top of doing everything else.
• Because of those points, the team had a chance to be better than last year's even before factoring in the ridiculous freshman class.
• And then there was the ridiculous freshman class that arguably had three of the top five freshmen in the country.

In reality, Stef, KML, and Kelly are playing at a level I expected them to play at. That is a very high level and a big reason why I'd be shocked if UConn wasn't in New Orleans this April. Unfortunately, Bria just hasn't been right all season, especially in terms of her outside shot. Not having that weapon (one that was expected) has been limiting. Stokes, meanwhile, hasn't progressed for a number of factors. Banks has been a pleasant surprise. However, I have been pretty shocked by how little Tuck has factored into things and how inconsistent Breanna has been. Mo has been basically what I expected: shows flashes of electric play, but this wasn't going to be her year. Yes, it's easy to say "they're freshmen, and freshmen need time," but I'm still waiting for a MOMENT for one of them. I'm talking about Bria at the end of the Baylor game in November 2010, Stef tearing up a good DePaul team later that same season, KML burying Stanford in the first half in November 2011. You don't want to rely on freshmen in March/April, but you do want to see flashes of they players they'll become.
The assumption I've had for a while is that 2013-14 is going to be a year no one would seriously challenge UConn for the NC. You'd have a starting lineup of Bria, Stef, KML, and Breanna as definite starters with either Mo, Tuck, or Banks as the fifth starter and a bench of the other two of them plus Stokes and Soniya. I think KML is going to be a force of nature next season, but we need to see some of the other current underclassmen step up big time. With only one kid in the 2013 recruiting class, the 2012 class has to be everything it's cracked up to be.
By the way, these comments have little to do with last night's game.

How many of the original posters critics agreed with the pre-season hyperbole that our second 5 would be the second best team in the country or some such silliness. Turns out they couldn't beat Cinn.

Can't see why anyone would be critical of Stewie. She not only scores and rebounds but she does a lot of little things that Kelly gets raves for doing. But overall, sober analysis of the class' performance versus expectations proferred on this very forum could lead to the "disappointment" conclusion.

Lloyd is better so far but only by a little over Stewie. Would anyone really trade Stewie for LLoyd?

Hopefully Tuck (she's getting better) will start hitting those layups and "itty bitty" will start hitting the 3ball and "get" the offense being taught.

Until then "we got KML and you don't".

 

[Bestiarius]

I have to say that Lloyd and Alexis Jones fall into the Ferrari category. Both are better players than Jefferson and Tuck at this point in their careers. IMO, Prince is also performing better than those two now that she is healthier and getting some meaningful playing time. To imply that no other freshmen in the country are as talented as the UCONN three is inaccurate, IMO.

I wasn't trying to imply that there weren't other Ferraris at other schools. What I was trying to get across is that there is obvious untapped potential with the 3 UConn freshmen. I agree that Lloyd & Jones are at a high level right now. One difference is that they have had more opportunity to play and look good because there is not as much competition within their team. Regarding Alexis, I think her talent/situation is similar to UConn's 3 frosh.

 

[easttexastrash]

UConn generally chooses a player to leave open in order to lock down the opponents top scorer(s). If I were Geno, I would leave a freshman open in order to smother Kelsey Bone. Kudos to Walker for making UConn pay for this strategy but other than a game vs Liberty, she hasn't replicated those results. Bone had 8 points, btw, and no one else on TAMU had more than 7.

Other notable games by Walker:
16 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals against KSU
12 points against Notre Dame
16 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals against Auburn
12 points, 5 rebounds, 4 steals against Georgia
Dismiss these other games if you want, but in my book, she is on the all-freshman team.

Walker is also shooting 47% from the floor and 80% from the FT line and is the second leading scorer for TAMU.

 

[OneTrickPony]

I think Jewell Loyd is having a great year, and should be in the discussion for FOY. That said, from the games I've watched she draws nothing like the defensive attention that Breanna Stewart draws. When a Chiney Ogwumike is dedicated to bodying up a freshman all over the court...or triple teams surround a player ever time they venture into the paint...those are sincere FOY votes from the opposing coaches. I've been tallying the votes so far, and I think Breanna wins the award among the cognoscenti...

 

[easttexastrash]

I wasn't trying to imply that there weren't other Ferraris at other schools. What I was trying to get across is that there is obvious untapped potential with the 3 UConn freshmen. I agree that Lloyd & Jones are at a high level right now. One difference is that they have had more opportunity to play and look good because there is not as much competition within their team. Regarding Alexis, I think her talent/situation is similar to UConn's 3 frosh.

Gotcha. The comment that there are other freshmen in WCBB who are Toyotas who would never be Ferraris gave the impression that you felt that there were no other players who equal the UCONN freshmen in terms of talent, performance and potential.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think Jewell Loyd is having a great year, and should be in the discussion for FOY. That said, from the games I've watched she draws nothing like the defensive attention that Breanna Stewart draws. When a Chiney Ogwumike is dedicated to bodying up a freshman all over the court...or triple teams surround a player ever time they venture into the paint...those are sincere FOY votes from the opposing coaches. I've been tallying the votes so far, and I think Breanna wins the award among the cognoscenti...

Stewart IS the FOY in the BE and in the nation. Lloyd and Jones are performing well but neither have the OVERALL impact that Stewart has. I would worry about Lloyd and Jones in a game, but nothing like Stewart. When she gains a full comfort level with college ball she is going to dominate.

 

[Kibitzer]

In my dotage, I have gradually learned that a little INdirectness often works best. Let me illustrate by paraphrasing a comment I recently made about one of our young players. "Once she starts rebounding (could also be passing/defending/shooting treys), Geno will surely double or even triple her playing time."

Now, let's allow for the possibility/likelihood that some parents read the Boneyard and maybe even players sneak an occasional peek.

If this player's proud mom read my comment, she (the eternal optimist) would think, "Gee, my little girl just needs to snag a few loose basketballs and she'll be playing full-time on an NC team! YAY!"

But dad remains skeptical, even pessimistic (that's an optimist with experience), thinks, "If she doesn't rebound, she ain't gonna play at all."

The player might think, "That's just what Coach tells me, so I better get with it."

All three are correct. But I, the innocent poster, doesn't incur the wrath from all sides, had I said something like, "This kid just can't rebound like we expected her to do."

Use a scalpel, not a chain saw. This is delicate work we do.

 

[speedoo]

"Even a Ferrari sputters when you ride the clutch and take your foot off the accelerator"

Once said by a great man, this hits the nail on the head in talking about concern over last nights 2nd half.

I kept screaming at Jefferson to run and she kept pulling it back. Any analysis done based on last nights game is a waste of time. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it though. The board would be very quiet without those posts.

It was obvious to me that Geno had ordered UConn to be deliberate in bringing the ball up in the second half.

 

[easttexastrash]

WCBB is dominated by the top 2 or 3 players on each team. After the top 3 players the talent level typically takes a drop. Stewart, Tuck and Jefferson will eventually be the top 3 players for UCONN and will be a devastating trio.

 

[HuskyNan]

Other notable games by Walker:
16 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals against KSU
12 points against Notre Dame
16 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals against Auburn
12 points, 5 rebounds, 4 steals against Georgia
Dismiss these other games if you want, but in my book, she is on the all-freshman team.

Walker is also shooting 47% from the floor and 80% from the FT line and is the second leading scorer for TAMU.

First of all, I'm not saying that Walker isn't a good player or doesn't deserve post-season honors. Good for her. But if you're going to hold up her game vs UConn as proof that she's better than Moriah or Morgan, then I'm going to tell you why she had that good game. Sorry you had to get all defensive about it.

And re: that murderer's row of opponents that TAMU faced:

• Kansas State? I watched UConn dismantle them 72-26 in Bridgeport CT last March.
• Notre Dame plays the same strategy of leaving the least experienced or worst shooting player on the floor open because Geno & Muffet learned how to coach from the same guy.
• Auburn? The same Auburn that lost to NC State, Missouri and Alabama? LOL
• And Georgia - Someone should give Andy Landers a boot in the pants. All that talent and he plays Presbyterian, South Carolina State, Belmont, Savannah State, Mercer, Lipscomb... Who knows how good Georgia really is?

 

[easttexastrash]

First of all, I'm not saying that Walker isn't a good player or doesn't deserve post-season honors. Good for her. But if you're going to hold up her game vs UConn as proof that she's better than Moriah or Morgan, then I'm going to tell you why she had that good game. Sorry you had to get all defensive about it.

And re: that murderer's row of opponents that TAMU faced:

• Kansas State? I watched UConn dismantle them 72-26 in Bridgeport CT last March.
• Notre Dame plays the same strategy of leaving the least experienced or worst shooting player on the floor open because Geno & Muffet learned how to coach from the same guy.
• Auburn? The same Auburn that lost to NC State, Missouri and Alabama? LOL
• And Georgia - Someone should give Andy Landers a boot in the pants. All that talent and he plays Presbyterian, South Carolina State, Belmont, Savannah State, Mercer, Lipscomb... Who knows how good Georgia really is?

By "defensive" I assume that you mean that I used statistics to defend my opinion of Walker. That's all it was, making a case for my stance on Walker. I've watched her quite a few times and she is the real deal.

 

[doggydaddy]

By "defensive" I assume that you mean that I used statistics to defend my opinion of Walker. That's all it was, making a case for my stance on Walker. I've watched her quite a few times and she is the real deal.

How would you rate her compared to the explosive Chandler and the underrated Higgins?

I'd post their stats, but I don't want to embarrass you any further.

 

[easttexastrash]

How would you rate her compared to the explosive Chandler and the underrated Higgins?

I'd post their stats, but I don't want to embarrass you any further.

You have me there. But feel free to embarrass me more since that is typically what you like to do to other posters. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it won't be the last.

However, I still think that both will have a big impact in Baylor uniforms. Obviously, this will not be the year.

 

[Wonkster]

Anything less than a total slaughter can sure make some folks cranky!

Doesn't Total Slaughter play for Jeff Walz down there in Louisville? I know Enos Slaughter played for the Yankees late in his career.

 

[doggydaddy]

You have me there. But feel free to embarrass me more since that is typically what you like to do to other posters. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it won't be the last.

However, I still think that both will have a big impact in Baylor uniforms. Obviously, this will not be the year.

As Nan said to you, Sorry you had to get all defensive about it.

Yeah, I typically embarrass other posters...lol. Care to link my many posts where to that?

 

[sTu]

"However, I still think that both will have a big impact in Baylor uniforms. Obviously, this will not be the year."

I have no idea of the abilities of the two players you mention, I think you might benefit from looking at your views of those two players and what you have said from watching internet highlight videos of Chong. Looking through Baylor colored glasses?