Cant win if we depend on Olander...

[60'sfan]

so Tyler was playing great on Thursday, yet he's a minus 15

how can we be at our worst when the guy playing great is on the court? how does that possibly happen?

defense gets worse, on offense they leave Tyler wide open and play 5 on 4 because he misses bunnies. As anyone ever seen a big man given less respect 10 feet from the hoop? ever?

I can't respond to all of the other games when Tyler had negative numbers but I do know this. He played as well as anyone did when he was in the game against Syracuse. Basketball is a game of ebbs and flows and there is another team on the floor. If you happen to be on the floor when the other team gets hot, you are going to have a negative number.

You have to remember that there are nine other players and three refs out there too. You can infer all you want but you cannot conclude anything about how good a player is (or how good he played) from statistics with that many variables.

You ask if anyone has been given less respect on his shot? There are at least four other players on Uconn that are worse shooters than Tyler who would have gotten less respect. Syracuse left him open because he wasn't hitting.

 

[mauconnfan]

Yes willie alex is given less respect....your emotion on this one is steering you away from the facts on the Syracuse game....they did not lose the game because of the minutes tyler was on the floor....

 

[Dogbreath2U]

I can't respond to all of the other games when Tyler had negative numbers but I do know this. He played as well as anyone did when he was in the game against Syracuse. Basketball is a game of ebbs and flows and there is another team on the floor. If you happen to be on the floor when the other team gets hot, you are going to have a negative number.

You have to remember that there are nine other players and three refs out there too. You can infer all you want but you cannot conclude anything about how good a player is (or how good he played) from statistics with that many variables.

You ask if anyone has been given less respect on his shot? There are at least four other players on Uconn that are worse shooters than Tyler who would have gotten less respect. Syracuse left him open because he wasn't hitting.

Plus, SU was hanging back to prevent Andre from going off on alley oops, so they risked leaving the middle more open than they might. It's a lot to ask a player who has been getting very few minutes to come in and play a key role. I thought Tyler played well, although it was too bad he was tight and did not shoot well. He rebounded well and he hedges better than AD or AO. All of our guys have pluses and minuses. That is the way it is right now. Some guys will have bigger roles against certain teams. Tyler is so much the better passer than AD, AO, or RS that it is not remotely close. Against a zone, we need him (or Giffey) to play more of a role to attack the zone. Lamb cut into the center several times, but did not get the ball once that I can recall. Part of the problem was that Bazz was the only one who could make the entry pass.

How about this for a concept? We need all our guys and some will be bigger contributors (or be asked to be bigger contributors) against some teams rather than others. Every one of our players has a lot of strengths, but also significant weaknesses....all of them. But by all means, keep throwing the scapegoat of the week (or day) under the bus to act like you have discovered the secret to recapturing last season's magic. Just get rid of _____ (fill in the blank). Just think how good this team could be if our top 10 players could reach the point of maturity and confidence to contribute with their weaknesses reduced. We may not see it, but this bunch could be pretty good next year.

 

[60'sfan]

Plus/minus analysis to an individual can appear unfair unless you concede it is a team game; and team chemistry is what it is when a guy is in the game - over the course of a season - and to me that is the Big East schedule - so you exclude the cupcake games that Tyler thrived in until the Fairfield disaster. Tyler's plus/minus is painful. I do think his teammates like the guy and the bounce passes please George but given Alex's poor hands - what is the chance he is going to catch those - w/o a fumble.

I think some are getting a little carried away by plus/minus. It is at best an indicator of a possible problem. Watching Tyler play against Syracuse and then noticing that he has a negative plus/minus allows us to conclude one of two things. Either we were deceived by our eyes about how well he played or there are weaknesses in the plus/minus stats.

I was a math major at Uconn and later received and MBA. For these courses, I was required to take several stat courses. I also used statistics extensively in my job. I realize that I am not an expert in statistics but my experience tells me that to make conclusions about Tyler Olander based on plus/minus is a real stretch. There are just too many other variables and the sample size is much too small.

 

[willie99]

I really try to be positive, and I appreciate all the kids that come to UConn. I like Tyler, I want him to succeed, and this is the last time I'm defending my position in this thread. The sample size is not really that small, I didn't draw my conclusions on one or two games, and I too thought he was productive on the floor. The plus / minus issue is a problem in nearly every game, almost without an exception. It's there, it's real, we get outscored when he's on the floor. Conversely, AO's numbers are much better than most realize.

I personally believe it's about team defense

 

[businesslawyer]

This isn't what Tyler scored vs. his opponent. It is about how his team did vs. the opposing team when he was in the game. It isn't stupid it is about contributing to winning. Facts are silly things to some folks who argue from emotion not logic.

Not surprisingly, people think they are smarter than they are. No one watching a game on TV notices various things that contribute to a team winning and losing. Frankly, if you watch a lot of basketball, even at the high school level there are many coaches who can't tell you why their teams are better with certain players on the court. But those things to exist. Positioning, confidence of teammates, making other players better, etc., etc.

Yes, it's quite possible you can be having a good game but your teammates aren't playing well, or hitting shots, when you're in and your plus/minus is not reflective of how you play. But if that is happening every game, it shows that you shouldn't be playing as much. And thinking the disparity shown above doesn't exist just because you can't figure out why the team should be so much worse with TO on the court reflects on those who won't accept the analysis, because these numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Prezidint]

But if that is happening every game, it shows that you shouldn't be playing as much.

Not necessarily.
I could make a very good argument that Shabazz needs to adjust to playing with Olander, who had more assists than him and more rebounds than him. I could make an argument that the problem is that guards get too comfortable letting their guys blow by them, knowing that AO and Drummond are back there to bail them out and/or take a foul, and that when TO goes in for one of them, the guards don't adjust.

AND, in any event, it's waaay too simplistic to simply say, "this guy's +/- is bad, so he shouldn't play."

You, as a lawyer, should see the unstated assumption in your argument.

Let me give you a hint first.

You've got a fleet of vehicles for a service company that get 40 MPG. You have one that gets 35. Your assistant tells you that you should replace it. Should you, based on MPG alone? Yes, BUT ONLY IF the replacement gets better than 35 MPG.

So playing Roscoe Smith more, or NG more, seems like the easy answer, but you can never answer this question - how would X have done playing the exact same minutes as Olander? If the answer is "worse," then your argument is completely invalid.

And we don't know what would happen. Fact is, TO gets minutes that AO and AD don't get. He's a second stringer. YES, OF COURSE! The +/- is worse with him in the game. No crap, particularly when he's always replacing one of two critical components.

The statistical measure that you need is a measure of lineup A, B, C, D and TO, and then A, B, C, D and RS/NG. Figure out how the team +/- measures up, and then get back to me.

Til then, Tyler played very well against Syracuse.

 

[Giddyup5]

Can we move on already?

 

[mauconnfan]

I really try to be positive, and I appreciate all the kids that come to UConn. I like Tyler, I want him to succeed, and this is the last time I'm defending my position in this thread. The sample size is not really that small, I didn't draw my conclusions on one or two games, and I too thought he was productive on the floor. The plus / minus issue is a problem in nearly every game, almost without an exception. It's there, it's real, we get outscored when he's on the floor. Conversely, AO's numbers are much better than most realize.

I personally believe it's about team defense

Well then wilie truth be told, the numbers you actually live by are awful. Alex, as good as he should be, is awful on defense just like Tyler whether you believe it or not. His footwork is awful and his help defense is not good at all. C'mon yu can do better than that!

 

[willie99]

Well then wilie truth be told, the numbers you actually live by are awful. Alex, as good as he should be, is awful on defense just like Tyler whether you believe it or not. His footwork is awful and his help defense is not good at all. C'mon yu can do better than that!

BL went into the specs I didn't

 

[Chief00]

Not surprisingly, people think they are smarter than they are. No one watching a game on TV notices various things that contribute to a team winning and losing. Frankly, if you watch a lot of basketball, even at the high school level there are many coaches who can't tell you why their teams are better with certain players on the court. But those things to exist. Positioning, confidence of teammates, making other players better, etc., etc.

Yes, it's quite possible you can be having a good game but your teammates aren't playing well, or hitting shots, when you're in and your plus/minus is not reflective of how you play. But if that is happening every game, it shows that you shouldn't be playing as much. And thinking the disparity shown above doesn't exist just because you can't figure out why the team should be so much worse with TO on the court reflects on those who won't accept the analysis, because these numbers speak for themselves.

Well said - I agree. Keep in mind the next negative guy that game was -8. So Tyler was -7 worse than the next poorest guy. Boatright was -8 with a bad wrist.