Can't wait

[Tenspro2002]

YES. YES THEY WERE. IDIOTS WITH FLAMES SHOOTING OUT OF THEIR HEADS. 4 points and 3 rebounds per game? One monster outburst against UCF? People think that we send players to league "because we're UConn and we have some magic secret sauce that makes kids stars whenever they put on the uniform." Look at all of the big men we brought in who went to the league. They were all universally regarded so, so much higher than Brimah ever was. Take a gander at some of the bigs who've entered early the past few years. How many of them only had UConn and La Salle as their only DI offers?

This makes no sense when viewed in context with your comments on Carlton. Low-ranked kids like Brimah are expected to be good as lottery picks, yet Carlton's lack of a spot in the Top 100 is indicative of the sky falling?

You're a smart guy, so I'm disappointed you ignored the nuance of what I was saying.

Brimah was a low-rated recruit, who nonetheless showed flashes (not UCF, which was clearly an outlier) of great potential as a freshman. He was arguably more capable than Thabeet was as a freshman.

NBA draft talk aside, it wasn't unreasonable to evaluate Brimah's freshman year and say "holy s***, if this guy develops over 2-3 years, he's going to be a monster".

And then he never developed. Scarcely any improvement in rebounding, offensive arsenal, feel for the game.

Year 1: Brimah was a pleasant surprise
expectations reasonably re-adjusted
Year 2-4: Brimah was a massive disappointment relative to those more recent expectations based on more information

Why would you evaluate Brimah's years 2-4 based on his recruiting ranking and not based on what he showed in year 1?

 

[Tenspro2002]

You made a deliberate choice to keep your expectations the same when we replaced the greatest coach of all time with someone whose only coaching experiences was 2 years as a collegiate assistant.

And why should a program of our cachet had to settle on someone whose only coaching experience was 2 years as a collegiate assistant? That screams "small time".

 

[Matrim55]

And why should a program of our cachet had to settle on someone whose only coaching experience was 2 years as a collegiate assistant? That screams "small time".

We should've signed a can't-miss big name like Shaka Smart or a Final 4 machine like Sean Miller.

 

[ctchamps]

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying that our pride and expectations should befit the status we want for this program.

We can't say "of course we're blue bloods, look at all our trophies" and then turn around and say "gee, we can't recruit or develop bigs anymore, that's just the way it is, folks".

If we're blue bloods, ****ing act like it. And that includes high expectations for our players and coaching staff.

So there it is. I've been wondering why you conveniently omit Zach Brown every time you diss recruiting. It would interfere with your need to bash the coaching staff if you considered circumstances that are legitimate for bad seasons and might be defenses for this staff.

 

[Stainmaster]

See, you say something like this then in a thread tomorrow about recruiting bigs you will reply to someone pointing out our misses in recruiting ready-to-play bigs and you will make some recycled "UConn has won most of its titles with unheralded players that we developed into stars" or some other candystriped response.

You don't really ever hold a solid position in this regard, you play each individual thread and pick the position that gives the air of superiority, yet your position has always been "UConn is fine" regarding any and all discussions. Try thinking outside the box.

Apples and oranges. We have had no issue incorporating under-recruited guys as important contributors on title teams. Most of them barely sniff the NBA, much less as early entrants. Giffey is perhaps the best and he only got one look in the summer league. Also, borderline 4-star guys like Shabazz and Emeka were in completely different universes than Brimah coming out of school. I'm pretty sure both of them had more than 2 DI offers.

 

[huskymagic]

My favorite topic. Let's be clear Amida did not have a good game today, but the few passes that did come his way were either bullet passes by his ankles or some horribly timed passes that had no chance to be successful. The head coach and the guards on this team know what Amida is capable of and where he needs the ball to be succesful like at the rim or passes waist high or above. Amida is the only big man that other coaches have to game plan against due to his shot blocking talent and elite athleticism and length. Of course we will see next year with Mamadou, Carlton, Durham and Enoch how wonderful of an upgrade they will be over Brimah.

Amida is the LEAST of our problems today and every other day. The lack of elite quickness and athleticism this team has without Amida is pretty obvious. The guards were getting beat off the dribble at will and were picking up foul after foul as was Facey. No our problems are much bigger and lie directly with the coaching staff and recruiting and developing supposed talent, and putting them in a position to succeed.

 

[Stainmaster]

And why should a program of our cachet had to settle on someone whose only coaching experience was 2 years as a collegiate assistant? That screams "small time".

Yeah you're right, why didn't the AD tell Calhoun to pound sand? The man was the best person to ever do what he did - to think he wasn't going to be handpicking his successor is ludicrous.

Also, I hate to say it, but whomever your preferred pick was at the time would still be incredibly deficient in many areas when compared to Calhoun. A dropoff was happening no matter who came in to replace him.

 

[superjohn]

So basically hire Coach K or Calipari as an assistant, then?

I mean, even UNC doesn't get a top 20 big every year. And Syracuse's top 20 big (Coleman) didn't play tonight.

Apropos of everything: We've signed six four-star PFs or Cs (Enoch, Durham, Diarra, Brown, Polley, Carlton) and the top postgrad big (Miller) over the past three years.

Durham can become really good but he is coming off of two major knee injuries and wasn't ready to play this season, Diarra has a chronic knee problem that caused a redshirt, Brown was never going to play here, Polley is a 190 lb. small forward ranked 138th in the country, and Carlton is ranked 180th.

 

[BUConn10]

Apples and oranges. We have had no issue incorporating under-recruited guys as important contributors on title teams. Most of them barely sniff the NBA, much less as early entrants. Giffey is perhaps the best and he only got one look in the summer league. Also, borderline 4-star guys like Shabazz and Emeka were in completely different universes than Brimah coming out of school. I'm pretty sure both of them had more than 2 DI offers.

In what way is that apples and oranges.

 

[Stainmaster]

In what way is that apples and oranges.

Contributing on a championship team vs. NBA draft status/leaving early for the NBA. Those are two different things last time I checked.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Yeah you're right, why didn't the AD tell Calhoun to pound sand? The man was the best person to ever do what he did - to think he wasn't going to be handpicking his successor is ludicrous.

Also, I hate to say it, but whomever your preferred pick was at the time would still be incredibly deficient in many areas when compared to Calhoun. A dropoff was happening no matter who came in to replace him.

I don't care about the politics of it -- having a coach with 2 years as an assistant forced upon a program of our stature was ludicrous. A dropoff after JC is reasonable, but if we want to be thought of as a big-time program on the national stage, we should have acted like it.

 

[Stainmaster]

I don't care about the politics of it -- having a coach with 2 years as an assistant forced upon a program of our stature was ludicrous. A dropoff after JC is reasonable, but if we want to be thought of as a big-time program on the national stage, we should have acted like it.

Well, it already happened. And it can't be undone. So it's up to you whether or not you make your peace with it.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Well, it already happened. And it can't be undone. So it's up to you whether or not you make your peace with it.

I guess some of us accept the deterioration of this program more easily than others.

You're what every Syracuse fan hopes to see out of this program and its fanbase.

 

[whaler11]

I gotta say I enjoyed the blue colored glasses after beating down some bad teams a lot more than reading this thread. Yikes.

 

[3rdbass]

My favorite topic. Let's be clear Amida did not have a good game today, but the few passes that did come his way were either bullet passes by his ankles or some horribly timed passes that had no chance to be successful. The head coach and the guards on this team know what Amida is capable of and where he needs the ball to be succesful like at the rim or passes waist high or above. Amida is the only big man that other coaches have to game plan against due to his shot blocking talent and elite athleticism and length. Of course we will see next year with Mamadou, Carlton, Durham and Enoch how wonderful of an upgrade they will be over Brimah.

Amida is the LEAST of our problems today and every other day. The lack of elite quickness and athleticism this team has without Amida is pretty obvious. The guards were getting beat off the dribble at will and were picking up foul after foul as was Facey. No our problems are much bigger and lie directly with the coaching staff and recruiting and developing supposed talent, and putting them in a position to succeed.

You must of missed the whole second half were AB was glued to floor and get out hustled by the Houston Center. There was one play were he was just looking at the guards try to rebound against Houston bigs and made no effort to try for the rebound. He was also glued on the floor on defense and moved horribly. It wasnt' the offense that we are talking about but the horrible defense and rebounding. True our guards played bad besides JA but AB was a total non-factor inside when we needed something there.

 

[whaler11]

Brimah didn't turn into what might have been projected.

If you think the program is bleak with Brimah - do you want to know how you feel if they lose to St. Joe's without him in 2014?

 

[ctchamps]

And then what happened remind me because I must have been off

Bunky left and none of the bigs were interested after that.

Getting a legitimate big was the staffs number one priority. They were recruiting several bigs. When Zach verbaled the staff turned their focus to Diallo and MAL. The remainder of the bigs we were recruiting turned to other teams. But you know this. Same with @superjohn and @Tenspro2002.

Everyone in this forum was excited about getting Zach. There was no clue among anyone, recruiters, coaches, press that Zach was a ticking time bomb. There was no way the staff could anticipate that accepting his verbal was not only going to not have him play but put other bigs out of the equation. But again you, Tenspro and superjohn know this.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Bunky left and none of the bigs were interested after that.

Getting a legitimate big was the staffs number one priority. They were recruiting several bigs. When Zach verbaled the staff turned their focus to Diallo and MAL. The remainder of the bigs we were recruiting turned to other teams. But you know this. Same with @superjohn and @Tenspro2002.

Everyone in this forum was excited about getting Zach. There was no clue among anyone, recruiters, coaches, press that Zach was a ticking time bomb. There was no way the staff could anticipate that accepting his verbal was not only going to not have him play but put other bigs out of the equation. But again you, Tenspro and superjohn know this.

No clue? Wasn't there a ****ing documentary about this kid and his issues?

And we parted ways with Brown in May. Nobody better than sub-200 (at the time) Carlton was willing to consider us over the last 9 months?

 

[ctchamps]

My favorite topic. Let's be clear Amida did not have a good game today, but the few passes that did come his way were either bullet passes by his ankles or some horribly timed passes that had no chance to be successful. The head coach and the guards on this team know what Amida is capable of and where he needs the ball to be succesful like at the rim or passes waist high or above. Amida is the only big man that other coaches have to game plan against due to his shot blocking talent and elite athleticism and length. Of course we will see next year with Mamadou, Carlton, Durham and Enoch how wonderful of an upgrade they will be over Brimah.

Amida is the LEAST of our problems today and every other day. The lack of elite quickness and athleticism this team has without Amida is pretty obvious. The guards were getting beat off the dribble at will and were picking up foul after foul as was Facey. No our problems are much bigger and lie directly with the coaching staff and recruiting and developing supposed talent, and putting them in a position to succeed.

With this analysis I'm wondering if you're the same poster who thought Stanley was not an athlete. Please say yes because I hate to think there are two people this obtuse posting in The Boneyard.

I've supported Brimah in the past. But by every indication he had a horrible game against Houston. Everyone did on offense. Brimah was a no show on defense this game. The rest of the team played decently enough on defense to put them in a position to win. Had Brimah played his defensive C game the outcome could have been different. But it was a big F.

Now saying that I'm hoping he's not a relative of yours. Because if that's the case I take back my obtuse statement.

 

[BUConn10]

Contributing on a championship team vs. NBA draft status/leaving early for the NBA. Those are two different things last time I checked.

When did the NBA draft get mentioned. I'm talking about incoming UConn players and their career trajectories.

My point is that in one thread you will say we as UConn fans need to rely on our player development of under-recruited players to take us to the promise land, meanwhile in another you will argue that we as UConn fans have no reasonable right to expectations of a player improving who has all the tools to be successful. So which one is it? These two statements contradict each other and only make your shallow intentions transparent.

 

[superjohn]

Bunky left and none of the bigs were interested after that.

Getting a legitimate big was the staffs number one priority. They were recruiting several bigs. When Zach verbaled the staff turned their focus to Diallo and MAL. The remainder of the bigs we were recruiting turned to other teams. But you know this. Same with @superjohn and @Tenspro2002.

Everyone in this forum was excited about getting Zach. There was no clue among anyone, recruiters, coaches, press that Zach was a ticking time bomb. There was no way the staff could anticipate that accepting his verbal was not only going to not have him play but put other bigs out of the equation. But again you, Tenspro and superjohn know this.

You really don't think there were warning signs with Brown? He already punched a ref during a game before he verbaled to us and was on his third high school. Boo Willingham (Ollie's best buddy) coached the kid. Pretty sure our staff knew the warning signs, they also knew he was their best chance at signing a highly ranked big.

 

[ctchamps]

No clue? Wasn't there a ****ing documentary about this kid and his issues?

And we parted ways with Brown in May. Nobody better than sub-200 (at the time) Carlton was willing to consider us over the last 9 months?

That documentary lauded his ability to escape the environment his mother created for the family (she was a user). And you know recruiting enough to know that most of the legitimate bigs would turn elsewhere once a coach accepts the verbal of a rival player.

There is a considerable range of people in this forum from sophisticated to uniformed when it comes to the process of recruiting. You and superjohn don't strike me as being unsophisticated. From my perspective it is quite frustrating to observe you making posts similar to what I expect from posters like uconnfan8 and JSM.

 

[Stainmaster]

I guess some of us accept the deterioration of this program more easily than others.

You're what every Syracuse fan hopes to see out of this program and its fanbase.

LOL. Tell me what your "non-acceptance" does to help rebuild the program. Let me guess, if you stir enough of the fanbase into a revolt, the administration fires KO, hires the next JC, and all of a sudden we're going 34-2 again, beating out Kentucky (which we never did with any consistency even under Calhoun) for burger boys, and spitting out lottery picks? I know you're a smart guy as well, and honestly, I expect a lot better than that.

Firing KO will totally stop the deterioration of the program, sure. Watching some A10 or CAA coach come in and go 30-60 in 3 years while recruiting guys like Vital as flagship players rather than as late-signing afterthoughts and only Lubin-esque bigs will stop the deterioration of the program. Then, once it hits you how bad the new coach is, you'll be calling for his head, and we repeat the process a few more times. By then, you'll be longing for a season like this one. I don't think you understand how much worse things can actually get. Even with all of his faults and deficiencies, Ollie is the best case scenario. And once you cut him loose, you lose the one thing that gives us a recruiting edge in this conference (I'm ignoring your fallacious takes on how KO actually isn't recruiting well considering 8/11 scholarship players were in ESPN's Top 100, and one of the others was a consensus 4-star).

Lastly, Syracuse fans? I could give 2 sh.ts about them. I actually think they would be more tickled by your lack of ability to comprehend that it's not the name on the jersey that makes expectations what they are -- it's who the players are wearing it, who the coaches on the sidelines are, and what conference the team is playing in.

 

[Stainmaster]

That documentary lauded his ability to escape the environment his mother created for the family (she was a user). And you know recruiting enough to know that most of the legitimate bigs would turn elsewhere once a coach accepts the verbal of a rival player.

There is a considerable range of people in this forum from sophisticated to uniformed when it comes to the process of recruiting. You and superjohn don't strike me as being unsophisticated. From my perspective it is quite frustrating to observe you making posts similar to what I expect from posters like uconnfan8 and JSM.

I don't think a lot of people understand what the actual process of recruiting (coaches contacting, connecting, and building relationships with prospects) entails, or how many man hours it takes. This isn't a video game where KO just has to click buttons.

 

[Stainmaster]

When did the NBA draft get mentioned. I'm talking about incoming UConn players and their career trajectories.

It was mentioned when Tenspro brought up how Brimah was being touted by many as a potential early entrant...

 

[ctchamps]

You really don't think there were warning signs with Brown? He already punched a ref during a game before he verbaled to us and was on his third high school. Boo Willingham (Ollie's best buddy) coached the kid. Pretty sure our staff knew the warning signs, they also knew he was their best chance at signing a highly ranked big.

That punch occurred after the signing and he was on his second school. If Boo knew it and the staff rolled the dice because he was their only chance than I would change my opinion. Do you have evidence to support this or is this something that is just your opinion?

 

[temery]

He's a Husky. If you can't chose your words more carefully, don't post.

 

[Stainmaster]

That punch occurred after the signing and he was on his second school. If Boo knew it and the staff rolled the dice because he was their only chance than I would change my opinion. Do you have evidence to support this or is this something that is just your opinion?

It's also funny reading this knowing how many posters complained about how KO wasn't recruiting enough players with an edge and toughness like JC did. Chief made many statements about how character issues/criminal activity was something KO should be throwing by the wayside.

 

[ctchamps]

I don't think a lot of people understand what the actual process of recruiting (coaches contacting, connecting, and building relationships with prospects) entails, or how many man hours it takes. This isn't a video game where KO just has to click buttons.

I agree but @superjohn and @Tenspro2002 have shown me that they understand bb. I normally enjoy reading their posts. But the convenience of not including Zach in their discussions is frustrating. I'm having a back and forth with super john which may cause me to reconsider some things.

 

[ctchamps]

It's also funny reading this knowing how many posters complained about how KO wasn't recruiting enough players with an edge and toughness like JC did. Chief made many statements about how character issues/criminal activity was something KO should be throwing by the wayside.

There were a few posters who were concerned when that happened but no one thought it was enough of a red light that KO should have pulled the plug immediately. It's just convenient now for those that want to throw KO under the bus to change events to minimize the amount of things outside the control of this staff that has played into the recruitment of bigs who are not up to these fans expectation. If you want to hate, you don't want anyone to be objective and rain down on the parade of hatred.

I have no problem with people being angry. I just don't like it when people make exaggerations or omit important details to suit their agendas.