Butler Postgame Thread | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Butler Postgame Thread

You don’t just recruit guys because they are good. Depends on what other options were out there. He is an excellent player. When you recruit you look at talent, potential, need and his interestin you. You would have liked Boozer, too, but he was going to Duke so you don’t spend a lot of time on it. But recruiting always depends on lots of factors. Of course you would want to recruit Mullins but what if he always wanted to go to IU? Or bought the line that the NBE is a mid major. That’s the way it goes in recruiting.
 
navery12 said:
The idea that we shouldn't have recruited Braylon Mullins is so absurd I don't even know where to begin with countering that point
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Is it more or less absurd than athleticism - no matter how you choose to spell it - being at the core of the back to back teams?

For a guy who seems to do nothing in life but consume college basketball content and then post about it there are some strange takes.
 
RuffRuff said:
Steph was in a terrible HS class, apples & oranges:

List of frosh this year based on PPG per 36, only draft prospects. He's 16 here, but you can add kids that aren't draft prospects this year like Acaden Lewis & Nigel James, others as well.

A kid like Tounde could have been a really nice fit in bringing in that athlete we are sorely missing. This team is simply missing athletecism. Not sure why Hurley has completely abandoned that profile since it was at the core of his B2B.
  • AJ Dybantsa — 26.9 ppg
  • Darryn Peterson — 26.6 ppg
  • Cameron Boozer — 25.2 ppg
  • Ebuka Okorie — 23.9 ppg
  • Caleb Wilson — 22.8 ppg
  • Darius Acuff — 22.1 ppg
  • Mikel Brown Jr. — 21.7 ppg
  • Nate Ament — 21.0 ppg
  • Tounde Yessoufou — 21.0 ppg
  • Keaton Wagler — 20.2 ppg
  • Brayden Burries — 19.7 ppg
  • Meleek Thomas — 19.6 ppg
  • Kingston Flemings — 19.2 ppg
  • Hannes Steinbach — 18.8 ppg
  • Koa Peat — 18.5 ppg
  • Braylon Mullins — 16.2 ppg
  • Amari Allen — 14.8 ppg
  • Chris Cenac Jr. — 14.1 ppg
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This is silly. We always have a balanced scoring effort. The last time we had a guy average even 18 ppg was in 17/18 with Jalen Adams.

If we had more than one competent ball handler right now, everyone’s stats would be more impressive.

Braylon is averaging 12 on 47-38-81 splits. He is keyed on now and takes a lot of tough shots. NBA will be way more wide open and he will be a flamethrower.
 
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I know I am guilty of “what about this bench player” but… why not try Millender instead of Smith? Hell, Koroma at the 4? We don’t need him backing up the 5 really now that the fouling issue seems better.

Mullins is great, full stop.
 
JustbrewitMan said:
Maybe our coaching staff and team are even smarter than we give them credit for...win, but win by just enough that it improves our KenPom metrics AND keeps the win as a Q1 NET win.

Tremendous. 5-D level chess while we're all here playing checkers!

Season 6 Knowledge GIF by Friends
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They moved from Defense 3 on Bart & KPom to 7.
cullaville said:
No knock against Alex but does it seem that it is more of an issue when he is inbounding than other players?
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It’s the weakest area of his game. He runs north to south and then calls timeout.
 
HooperScooper said:
Probably won't be tomorrow when Butler falls below 75 in the NET. Hopefully they can get back into the top 75.
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Butler still 74 as of this morning. Also of note, PC is 76. If they can get/stay top 75, our road win there is another Q1.
 
Our pick and roll defense was awful especially in the first half. It improved when we sagged off off and clogged the middle. But this needs to be fixed ASAP.

The 12 point spurt in the second half was like a nuclear bomb. Beautiful basketball. Everyone contributed. When we play like that we are bullet proof.
 
Icehawk said:
I know I am guilty of “what about this bench player” but… why not try Millender instead of Smith? Hell, Koroma at the 4? We don’t need him backing up the 5 really now that the fouling issue seems better.

Mullins is great, full stop.
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The one thing about Smith is that he does make open 3’s when needed to. Can Millender?
Also I’m not sure Millender is any better a ball handler.
 
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jibsey said:
The one thing about Smith is that he does make open 3’s when needed to. Can Millender?
Also I’m not sure Millender is any better a ball handler.
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Good point and we haven’t seen a ton of Millender play - I just don’t like the ball pounding and the drives into guys 6” taller that Smith can’t convert. It may be a grass is greener thing but I can’t help but wonder.
 
Icehawk said:
I know I am guilty of “what about this bench player” but… why not try Millender instead of Smith? Hell, Koroma at the 4? We don’t need him backing up the 5 really now that the fouling issue seems better.

Mullins is great, full stop.
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No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and now recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.
 
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RuffRuff said:
No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and not recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.
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You can't be that bad of a judge of ability "completely abandoning having any athleticism" as relates to Mullins is actually pretty bad take, kid has serious hops and quickness.
 
We know we are guaranteed of a postseason. Except for all but a few Big East teams the rest know that their games against us are their season.
 
RuffRuff said:
How? What can we start doing next game to do that? There is no Newt on this team.
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Refs could actually make calls on opponents before the 10 minute mark. Surprised they didn't reverse that hold-and-hold call. We get manhandled every game.
 
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uconnfan68 said:
Refs could actually make calls on opponents before the 10 minute mark. Surprised they didn't reverse that hold-and-hold call. We get manhandled every game.
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I’m not sure changing the refs is in our control
 
Deepster said:
Lots of talk about lack of production from the bench. This is the time of year young start to skinny down the rotation and send your best 8 out there. Smith and Reibe are not going to get more minutes unless the game script and fouls dictate it. That’s how it works.
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Reibe HAS to get time because Reed can't do a full 40 with all that's being asked from him. Need more help rebounding from everyone.
 
Husky68 said:
You can't be that bad of a judge of ability "completely abandoning having any athleticism" as relates to Mullins is actually pretty bad take, kid has serious hops and quickness.
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Idk - nice athlete but I’m not looking at him as that much of a plus there. Good athletes use their physicality to be disruptive, great defenders, play vertically, use their body to create. I wouldn’t say Mullins falls into that category at all. He’s an ok defender, is very handsy.

Maybe we can grab one of these guys in the portal.

 
RuffRuff said:
No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and now recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.
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This is so dumb. It's just complaining about the opposite of what we have, when what we're doing works. He has a system that he needs shooters and BBIQ guys, he doesn't have an ISO system.

Can we mix athleticism in? Sure. Our guys aren't bad athletes, but as always you act like it's completely black and white. He's bringing in shooters who can't move or jump and nothing else. That's just not true and is a typical over-simplification.

If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.
 
RuffRuff said:
Yes, want the list? There are two in the BE alone.
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I do not know about 20
RuffRuff said:
Steph was in a terrible HS class, apples & oranges:

List of frosh this year based on PPG per 36, only draft prospects. He's 16 here, but you can add kids that aren't draft prospects this year like Acaden Lewis & Nigel James, others as well.

A kid like Tounde could have been a really nice fit in bringing in that athlete we are sorely missing. This team is simply missing athletecism. Not sure why Hurley has completely abandoned that profile since it was at the core of his B2B.
  • AJ Dybantsa — 26.9 ppg
  • Darryn Peterson — 26.6 ppg
  • Cameron Boozer — 25.2 ppg
  • Ebuka Okorie — 23.9 ppg
  • Caleb Wilson — 22.8 ppg
  • Darius Acuff — 22.1 ppg
  • Mikel Brown Jr. — 21.7 ppg
  • Nate Ament — 21.0 ppg
  • Tounde Yessoufou — 21.0 ppg
  • Keaton Wagler — 20.2 ppg
  • Brayden Burries — 19.7 ppg
  • Meleek Thomas — 19.6 ppg
  • Kingston Flemings — 19.2 ppg
  • Hannes Steinbach — 18.8 ppg
  • Koa Peat — 18.5 ppg
  • Braylon Mullins — 16.2 ppg
  • Amari Allen — 14.8 ppg
  • Chris Cenac Jr. — 14.1 ppg
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I think the better point is being lost by people who argue for the sake of arguing. In this list, there are two players who are generational talents: AJ and Peterson. And Peterson plays Braylon's position. Go and watch Peterson play and then come back to argue that Braylon is in his class. On the other hand, there is no other guard in the country I would 'trade' for Braylon (other than Peterson). And that means that having him adds value to our team. Another point is that Braylon could easily be averaging more points per game for most other teams.
 
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Mr. French said:
This is so dumb. It's just complaining about the opposite of what we have, when what we're doing works. He has a system that he needs shooters and BBIQ guys, he doesn't have an ISO system.

Can we mix athleticism in? Sure. Our guys aren't bad athletes, but as always you act like it's completely black and white. He's bringing in shooters who can't move or jump and nothing else. That's just not true and is a typical over-simplification.

If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.
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Listen any “complaint”/observation is nit picking obviously. We are 23-2 and poised for a one seed. I’m certainly not suggesting the program needs wholesales modifications. We have a wonderful product. It’s simply an observation that we’ve moved away from a key ingredient in record breaking teams of just two years ago, to a profile that tends to lead towards a less dynamic roster and much less “bullet proof”. If this team has an off shooting game against the top 15 of the country, how confident are we that we can still win? We just lost to the most athletic team in the conference while shooting 55%.
 
RuffRuff said:
Listen any “complaint”/observation is nit picking obviously. We are 23-2 and poised for a one seed. I’m certainly not suggesting the program needs wholesales modifications. We have a wonderful product. It’s simply an observation that we’ve moved away from a key ingredient in record breaking teams of just two years ago, to a profile that tends to lead towards a less dynamic roster and much less “bullet proof”. If this team has an off shooting game against the top 15 of the country, how confident are we that we can still win? We just lost to the most athletic team in the conference while shooting 55%.
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In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
 
Mr. French said:
If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.
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This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
 
Mr. French said:
In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
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He was a lock down defender, was disruptive, played above the rim. So yeah, him. And sure he could create off the dribble. Andre was the same, plucked steals and turned them into transition. They’re the kind of catalysts that take a team from good to great. They don’t have to be great shooters. Look how disruptive a Mitchell was against us.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
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Precisely.

RuffRuff said:
He was a lock down defender, was disruptive, played above the rim. So yeah, him. And sure he could create off the dribble. Andre was the same, plucked steals and turned them into transition. They’re the kind of catalysts that take a team from good to great. They don’t have to be great shooters. Look how disruptive a Mitchell was against us.
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So there was 1 on each team, and they were more so athletically important on D.

So what you said about those teams being built on high level athleticism is just not correct. Cam, Tristen, Alex, Sanogo these guys are the total opposite of what you’re talking about.

Personally, and from a coaching perspective, I’m with the staff on this one. I’ll take shooters, hoopers and competitors over plus athletes all day.
 
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