Butler Post Game Thread

[AllHusky]

Butler is now 8-11 and we had to go to OT to eek out a home win that we could have lost on a last shot due to poor execution. I think it's fair to honestly assess that performance. It was trash.

So what? I'm guessing you must have donated the NIL $$ for one of the athletes, and want your money back. Give it a rest.

What type of zone would you try?
Which athlete would you give more minutes too?
What % of practice time would you spend on individual defensive skills?
Same question regarding team defense?
Do you think Mahaney has a role?
What do you think it is going to take to get Tarris to contribute at the level he's capable?

The only thing that is trash is your post. No redeeming value whatsoever

 

[RuffRuff]

TOO MUCH NEGATIVITY!!!!!!!!

 

[ctbro1999]

Anyone trying to rationalize Butler as a quality opponent is making sh#t up - there is a reason they are 1-10 in their last 11 and it's not because they are good. Their one win is a home game against Seton Hall, where they were up 2 with 40 seconds to play. It's like c'mon man!!!

Butler is bad, but they are not '23 G'town/DePaul bad. I'm not making any excuses because we should have beat them by 10+ points both times, but Butler usually puts up a fight even though they are outclassed most nights. Here are some notable losses:

Lost by:

• 9 vs Wisconsin (neutral court)
• 10 @ Marquette
• 8 vs Villanova
• 8 @ St Johns
• 4 vs Creighton

And of course 2 close losses to us. They did get blown out @Houston and @Providence. But barely beating Butler good is not gonna cut it come March. That being said, I have faith that Hurley and co can course correct and at least having us playing our best basketball of the season come tourney time.

 

[boog204]

Butler is now 8-11 and we had to go to OT to eek out a home win that we could have lost on a last shot due to poor execution. I think it's fair to honestly assess that performance. It was trash.

Yep, it sure was a bad performance. And we have a victory to show for it. Definitely could have lost. But we didn't. So all things considered, I'm trusting in this staff (you know the ones that put together back to back NCs) to continue to try to figure out how to mitigate some of the issues we are seeing. People in the chat room and here going full toddler and rewriting the narrative seems pretty trashy as well.

 

[ucp990411]

You calling Newton a Good role player has already made any of your opinions about him worthless. He was a 1st Team All-American, 1st team All Big East and NCAA Final Four MOP. You don't become that by being a role player.

And won the Bob Cousy award for being the best point guard in the country

 

[Waquoit]

Always wonder how accurate this is with 23 year old kids in amazing physical condition playing 2 games a week.

You're not giving weight to mental energy expended. Playing all those minutes in tight games with the ball in your hands all the time.

 

[ctbro1999]

And won the Bob Cousy award for being the best point guard in the country

Anyone who says Newton was just "a good role player" is obviously a troll.

 

[LIUCHusky]

We couldn't guard Telfort last night. Karaban (who was a teammate of Telfort at New Hampton Prep), couldn't keep him from going to his right and driving in for a layup. That was Butler's offense in the late stages last night.

We've been spoiled. Last year's team would beat this year's team by 15, but that doesn't mean there is no fight in these guys. Karaban took over the game in the last few minutes for us and got some key baskets. Without McNeeley we don't have enough scoring options right now.

Last years team beat most teams by 15. No shame in getting beaten by 15 by 2024 team.

 

[ctbro1999]

You're not giving weight to mental energy expended. Playing all those minutes in tight games with the ball in your hands all the time.

Also, it's not like we're playing zone on defense where guys don't have to chase around their man everywhere, or he's a big that can hang out in the paint most defensive possessions. Diarra's glued to his man most of the time. Even if they are "only" playing 2x a week, that will take a toll on pretty much anyone over the course of a 30+ game season regardless of conditioning.
And that's not even taking into account the mental energy guys need to expend.

 

[Griggs]

View attachment 106416

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!

 

[gsmooth]

I’m not saying Diarra is good at the end of the shot clock. But it’s obvious that’s what we trust him to do because he has the ball almost every single time it happens.

I don’t know why we don’t give Solo the ball more at the end of games

Solo isn't a shot creator off the dribble, that's why. End of games situations you usually want a ball handler that can create a shot for himself or others with their dribbling penetration, that is not what Solo does. He is best moving without the ball. The only caveat I would say where Solo could do what you are asking for in end of game situations, is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Solo isn't a shot creator off the dribble, that's why. End of games situations you usually want a ball handler that can create a shot for himself or others with their dribbling penetration, that is not what Solo does. He is best moving without the ball. The only caveat I would say where Solo could do what you are asking for in end of game situations, is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

We’ve seen Solo put together more and more good drives recently. It’s coming along slowly but surely.

I’d rather he do it with his ability he’s shown to hit tough shots and rise up over guys and get him used to that even if he fails than give it to Diarra which we’ve seen enough of at this point.

 

[aburks41]

This team would be a top 5 team in the country if we had 2 things:

1) A healthy McNeeley
2) A 6'5" PG who can create his own shot, rebound, pass, and defend. AKA, another Tristen Newton. Going after a short 6'0" 150lb Mahaney in the portal was such a bad decision, especially with Diarra and Nowell both being undersized. We needed a BIG guard. Someone with some physicality on the perimeter and the coaching staff made the wrong decision.

That being said, Liam coming back changes everything. He's our best offensive player and defender. He can pass, rebound, and shoot. He can drive to the hoop and finish through contact while drawing fouls. We need him back, badly.

 

[gsmooth]

This is some really good stuff from Dan. I go back to the PC game two years ago, the Adama team, and it was the same then. I was pissed about that game because PC was mauling, clutching, grabbing us off the ball. The Big East simply doesn't see fouls against people who don't have the ball as fouls. That's the style of play. It rewards old school ISO 90s basketball. It penalizes modern offense. It makes for fairly ugly basketball.

Reminds me of the shift in hockey in some ways, you never saw interference calls back in the old days, guys were expected to fight through that stuff if they wanted to get the puck.

I was at that game in Jan 2023 in PC. Let me state this first; UConn got outplayed and I think PC earned the victory because when UConn had chances to the make the play (hitting open shots, making the correct pass to get the open shot, etc.) the did not. However, the officiating was so bad. PC was clutching and grabbing the UConn players, while UConn was getting called for ticky tack fouls-it was pathetic. That day was unusually warm at around 50 degrees and the AMP had a hockey game the night before so the floor was slick. Whenever a PC player slipped on their own, but made slight contact with a UConn defender, UConn got called for the foul.

There was one sequence I remember when Bryce Hopkins, who played very well that day, got called for an offensive foul (he could have gotten called for 1-2 more that day they way he was crashing into defenders), the AMP and Ed Cooley went nuts. Tony Chiazza made the call. The very next trip down the court when UConn had the ball Karaban barely moved on his screen, if he did at all, and Chiazza called a moving screen. At that point it was obvious that Chiazza was looking for the slightest thing he could call an infraction on UConn for and that was what he did.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Dude you are really saying Jalen Adams was better all around player than Tristen Newton because he shot better? LOL! I think what ever you are drinking tonight you need to go to sleep. Jalen while a good one on one player was not really a team player. He was a ball hog and offense wasn't smooth with the ball in his hands. You really think Jalen Adams would work in this offense? I don't see it.

The guy averaged 6.1 assists passing to a bunch of nobodies though?

 

[HCCForever]

I noticed that as well and said such in the chat during the game.

With that said, he did a lot of standing around, running some slow motion around some weak screens. Just think it's time...or should have been done a lot sooner...for Hurley and staff to draw up some special sets for his teammates to free him up for a lot more catch and shoot 3s than he's currently getting. Not every time down the floor, since you want his teammates ready to take good shots, but more often than we're seeing. He's just too good a deep and even midrange shooter to not be getting more shots.

Sounds like Solo could use a session with Rip on running constantly. I believe that Rip helped Hawkins in this mental aspect of the game. I have faith in Solo's mid-range game as well as his three-point shooting.

 

[freescooter]

I think this team is good, not great. Probably not a serious March threat. We are going through the adjustment period that virtually every defending champion does. Guys move on and new guys in new roles need to adjust and sometimes don’t quite work out. Biggest thing I see is the fact that we no longer have the totally dominant shot blocker inside. Both Sanogo and Clingon controlled the inside. Guys dribbled by their guarder only to find very large athletic people who understood how to block shots standing in the way. That made the defense infinitely better. Neither Johnson nor Reed are that type of player.

On offense, we have a 6th man running the point. I like him. He was terrific in his role. He is just ok as the full time ball handler. In some ways it takes away from his ability to hit those corner 3s. I honestly don’t know how we just miss so many bunnies.

I think Hurley is a jerk. Good coach. Great recruiter but still a jerk. It will be interesting to see if he is another Coach K who won back to back, then won 3 more titles and 7 more Final Fours or more like Billy Donovan who also went back to back but only made 1 more Final Four and zero additional titles. Side notes he has one earlier final four run. His only post title Final Four he lost in 2014 to UConn. He was considered the next big thing in 2007. He was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015.

 

[superjohn]

is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

That's the play I always want him to be making, he's pretty much automatic with it.

If Solo got the ball more we're looking at someone who is pushing 20 ppg. As is when McNeeley comes back we have three guys who are 15 ppg guys.

 

[Waquoit]

This team would be a top 5 team in the country if we had 2 things:

1) A healthy McNeeley
2) A 6'5" PG who can create his own shot, rebound, pass, and defend. AKA, another Tristen Newton.

Wouldn't most top 20 teams be top 5 if they added 2 All-American caliber players to their roster?

 

[RuffRuff]

not sure if the refs are loving it but fans the sport are.

 

[superjohn]

I think this team is good, not great. Probably not a serious March threat. We are going through the adjustment period that virtually every defending champion does. Guys move on and new guys in new roles need to adjust and sometimes don’t quite work out. Biggest thing I see is the fact that we no longer have the totally dominant shot blocker inside. Both Sanogo and Clingon controlled the inside. Guys dribbled by their guarder only to find very large athletic people who understood how to block shots standing in the way. That made the defense infinitely better. Neither Johnson nor Reed are that type of player.

On offense, we have a 6th man running the point. I like him. He was terrific in his role. He is just ok as the full time ball handler. In some ways it takes away from his ability to hit those corner 3s. I honestly don’t know how we just miss so many bunnies.

I think Hurley is a jerk. Good coach. Great recruiter but still a jerk. It will be interesting to see if he is another Coach K who won back to back, then won 3 more titles and 7 more Final Fours or more like Billy Donovan who also went back to back but only made 1 more Final Four and zero additional titles. Side notes he has one earlier final four run. His only post title Final Four he lost in 2014 to UConn. He was considered the next big thing in 2007. He was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015.

"Billy Donovan was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015."

His last four seasons in college he went to three elite 8's and a final 4 in his last season. Four final 4's, two national championships.

Yep, just a good coach. What???

 

[ctbro1999]

"Billy Donocan was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015."

His last four seasons in college he went to three elite 8's and a final 4 in his last season. Four final 4's, two national championships.

Yep, just a good coach. What???

There are some truly horrid takes being tossed around in the Boneyard today.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Dude you are really saying Jalen Adams was better all around player than Tristen Newton because he shot better? LOL! I think what ever you are drinking tonight you need to go to sleep. Jalen while a good one on one player was not really a team player. He was a ball hog and offense wasn't smooth with the ball in his hands. You really think Jalen Adams would work in this offense? I don't see it.

Also, my post wasn’t meant to say that Jalen Adams is better than him. I don’t care to go back and forth about that.

It’s moreso meant to show just how bad Newton shot from the field despite having the most ideal circumstances possible for a PG.

 

[controlfade]

Steven A loves him

 

[Waquoit]

It’s moreso meant to show just how bad Newton shot from the field despite having the most ideal circumstances possible for a PG.

Oh, in that case it's still a fail.