Brady/Goodell Round 1

[Husky25]

And your proof of him being innocent is what? It's funny but does anyone actually think the NFL would have even done anything at all without something to go on?

There is almost no way to prove innocence. I just told you that. My proof that Brady is not guilty however, is the exact lack of proof that he is guilty.

There are reasonable explanations for every one of the NFL's charges as detailed in The Wells Report in Context and the unsealed testimony from the appeal hearing. It's continues to be a tough go of it in arguing with people who seemingly gets their sports news from Good Morning America.

 

[Husky25]

It's a funny world. All these people hating on the Patriots and Brady are supporting an individual who swallows a biased report that which a federal judge notes makes quantum leaps in logic. This is the same individual who couldn't reasonably deduce that Ray Rice was responsible for knocking out his fiancé in a closed elevator containing no one except Ray Rice and his fiancé.

 

[StoweD210]

Yeah, the NFL now tops MLB as the league that wants to demonize their stars.

I'd hate to see how Goodell would have handled a situation like the Cardinals hacking the Astros. He probably would have excommunicated them from MLB, laid siege to Busch Stadium and razed it to the ground.

 

[FartMan69]

Mort lied.

 

[donyell34]

Mau your out of your mind.

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau your out of your mind.

Yeah and I'm the only one! You guys are hilarious. Listen I don't even read reports and I have no proof of anything. No I didn't read the reports why the hell would I? It means little to me I read reports all day at work I am here for opinions and discussion along with the occasional debate - I know you need facts for a debate blah blah blah. I listen to sports on the radio often when driving and yeah some of it's New York, but they have guys on from the Globe, Herald etc etc - they also think there's something there but only assumption.. Do you guys listen at all? I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong but my point is there is a much higher percentage of people who think he got away with "something" I promise. If you think it's because I hate the Pats or Brady guess again - well a little. He didn't deserve his penalty and it was lifted, good for him. Football is better of it and that's fine with me.

You guys are still worried about me and my opinion, I did good!

 

[8893]

Right, but the reason this doesn't hold up in this context is that every day, in every jurisdiction in America, courts sign off on arbitration awards that are incorrectly decided, based on virtually no evidence, etc. And the reason is because the law essentially compels them to. The craziest thing about this case is that it would have been incredibly easy for Goodell to avoid this result if he had been a little bit more careful in the conduct of the hearing. So, Ivy's general argument that Berman's ruling is a pretext might hold up when substantive issues of law are being tried to the court, but that's not what's at issue when you're confirming an arbitration award and, "frankly," nothing in his posts indicates to me that he understands that distinction, hence my conclusion that he's talking out of his ___.

Pretext is the wrong word, but the truism still holds, arbitration or not. Arbitration makes it much harder to overturn, but where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Husky25]

Queue the Billy Madison test moderator scene.

"...I award you no point, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

[Dove]

 

[mcs333]

Your forgot the 4th type. "A dishonest, bias arbitrator who is power hungry"
That person now has lost the respect of all the players and many fans. If he was a CEO of a business he would be long gone.

 

[upstater]

The NFL was caught redhanded lying and Mau is still defending them. They literally lied in reports.
REDHANDED.

The NFL has lied from the start. They lied on the deflated balls. They lied on the phones. They lied on Brady's testimony.

They have a pattern of lying from the Ray Rice case.

And yet here we have a ballboy who 8 times a year makes $8.50 an hour for 6 hours hauling balls to the field. He sat in front of Ex-FBI investigators 4 separate days, an 8 hour session of interrogation with Wells' FBI people, and somehow this genius (masquerading as a minimum wage ball boy) never once contradicted himself in his testimony (or hell, I would've pissed myself and admitted kidnapping the Lindbergh baby too!), and yet it's the Wells report that has credibility for these Patriot haters.

 

[intlzncster]

For those who are interested, Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post wrote a good piece on Goodell being unfit. Linked, were two interesting take down pieces on who Goodell really is. Hint: ego-maniacal .

How Rodger Goodell Became The Most Powerful Man in American Sports

His Game, His Rules
​

And it’s all the result of a terrible temperamental flaw in Goodell.

The Brady case is really about one man’s immoderate need to horsewhip others. Taken with other anecdotes of Goodell over the years, a picture emerges of a stubborn desire to break those who oppose or question him, to bend them to his will when it comes to his personal authority. In Kent Babb’s excellent profile of Goodell, a player involved in the 2011 collective bargaining agreement remembered how Goodell would flush red with fury and stalk out of the room when his proposals were rejected. Another excellent profile by ESPN’s Don Van Natta a few years ago contained a similar story. An NFL assistant coach was stopped for suspicion of driving under the influence. The offense was reduced to reckless driving, and his lawyer pled for mercy from Goodell in a disciplinary hearing, telling Goodell that the coach had a previously unblemished record.

Goodell stood up and turned bright red and screamed at the attorney not to “lecture him about what was right and wrong.” He stormed out of the room and fined and suspended the coach.

Then there was his reaction in the news conference when he first announced the hiring of Ted Wells to conduct the Brady investigation, and CNN sports anchor Rachel Nichols questioned him over whether Wells could be truly independent, given how much work his firm gets from the league. Goodell condescendingly sneered at her for pinpointing what would turn out to be the legal crux of the matter.

 

[StoweD210]

You think that the NFL said 'since people are mad that we've allowed players to beat their wives and children, we should suspend one of the league's most marketable players for a minor offense?' I think they absolutely blew it out of proportion, but the league went after Brady because they genuinely believe they cheated.

One of the reasons the court vacated the suspension was that the league decided the Patriots had cheated as soon as they read the email from the Colts prior to the AFCCG. Everything they did after that was to try and prove that assumption.

I'm not going to re-hash the entire saga, but consider this: After the Colts intercepted a Brady pass in the first half, a staffer checked the pressure on the sideline (an unpunished rules violation, by the way) and alerted the NFL higher ups. Troy Vincent testified that he had no idea that changes in temperature will affect the PSI, so when he and his cohorts went to check the footballs at half time, their expectation was that, if the pressure measured lower than the original setting that meant someone tampered with them. They checked the Patriots balls and found they were below 12.5 PSI and thought they had their proof. Then they started to measure the Colts balls and every one they checked, on either gauge, were below their original setting. Based on their thinking, that would have meant that someone tampered with the Colts balls, also. Instead of considering that something might be going one that they're not aware of, the NFL just ignored this and stuck with their original idea that only the Patriots were tampering.

In the days after the AFCCG, the NFL could have come clean that they had no idea about the Ideal Gas Law and that no tampering actually occurred. They could have announced new protocols for testing and securing the footballs in the future, fined the Patriots for having their ball attendant bring the balls to the field unattended to appease the Patriots Haters and been done with it. Instead doing that, the league fully committed to their original assumption of guilt, fed false information to Mortensen and Peter King, and hired Ted Wells to try and prove their assumption.

 

[ctchamps]

Yeah and I'm the only one! You guys are hilarious. Listen I don't even read reports and I have no proof of anything. No I didn't read the reports why the hell would I? It means little to me I read reports all day at work I am here for opinions and discussion along with the occasional debate - I know you need facts for a debate blah blah blah. I listen to sports on the radio often when driving and yeah some of it's New York, but they have guys on from the Globe, Herald etc etc - they also think there's something there but only assumption.. Do you guys listen at all? I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong but my point is there is a much higher percentage of people who think he got away with "something" I promise. If you think it's because I hate the Pats or Brady guess again - well a little. He didn't deserve his penalty and it was lifted, good for him. Football is better of it and that's fine with me.

You guys are still worried about me and my opinion, I did good!

First of all it should be UUUUs guys! And second I stopped considering your value once I determined UUUs is an alien.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Pretext is the wrong word, but the truism still holds, arbitration or not. Arbitration makes it much harder to overturn, but where there's a will, there's a way.

Yeah, I just disagree. It may be different where you practice but in the states I practice (CA and NY) a judge can hate an arbitrator's decision with every fiber of his being but unless the award was procured by fraud, corruption, or some other perversion of the process he's SOL to do anything about it. And I've had judges from the bench say "I don't like this but my hands are tied."

 

[Husky25]

Yeah, I just disagree. It may be different where you practice but in the states I practice (CA and NY) a judge can hate an arbitrator's decision with every fiber of his being but unless the award was procured by fraud, corruption, or some other perversion of the process he's SOL to do anything about it. And I've had judges from the bench say "I don't like this but my hands are tied."

That is precisely why the award was vacated. Brady did not get due process. The judge said himself in open court that no matter what a CBA says and what the ruling of an arbiter is, the process (and by extension, ruling) cannot violate Federal law. You understand that the case was heard in New York, right?

That, and it wasn't an appeal. It was an affirmation. The NFL compelled the judge to look at the evidence themselves when they filed suit first in an attempt to keep it out of Doty's court.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

That is precisely why the award was vacated. Brady did not get due process. The judge said himself in open court that no matter what a CBA says and what the ruling of an arbiter is, the process (and by extension, ruling) cannot violate Federal law. You understand that the case was heard in New York, right? That, and it wasn't an appeal. It was an affirmation. The NFL compelled the judge to look at the evidence themselves when they filed suit first in an attempt to keep it out of Doty's court.

You completely misread my post. I was responding to the people saying that if Berman didn't like the result of the arbitration he would find a way to vacate the award. That's just not true. Had the league been even marginally competent in the way they heard disciplinary matters, they could have been completely insulated from something like this.

I also don't know why you keep telling me it wasn't an appeal. The district courts are trial courts and I never said otherwise.

 

[Husky25]

You completely misread my post. I was responding to the people saying that if Berman didn't like the result of the arbitration he would find a way to vacate the award. That's just not true. Had the league been even marginally competent in the way they heard disciplinary matters, they could have been completely insulated from something like this.

I also don't know why you keep telling me it wasn't an appeal. The district courts are trial courts and I never said otherwise.

It is my understanding that because the NFL moved to affirm their ruling, it opened the entire case up for scrutiny, not just the process. That the NFL duckked up the process was just icing on the cake.

I honestly thought that the Judge was going to take door #3. I thought he was going to give Brady his injunction, but send the case back to the NFL with a not so vague hint that the new appeal be heard by a neutral arbiter (IOW, someone not affiliated with the Goodell administration) who knows something about due process.

 

[donyell34]

Give it a rest Big Ern.

 

[David 76]

Frankly, I have to eat crow on this matter. I thought Brady was caught red handed and all the noise was just die-hard, defensive Pats fans. It actually is bizarre how poorly the NFL played. Scary for such a huge company to not have anyone substantial pushing for sanity.
They wanted Brady and arranged the facts accordingly.

 

[jibsey]

Brady was never a guy that was hated but was respected league wide, and that is going to change. Most people think he destroyed his cell phone and wouldn't cooperate for a reason, knew SOMETHING. Might not show up right away but at some point he may be the recipient of a cheap shot to knock him out of a game. I think I would enjoy that, as probably would many NFL teams and players. At his age take bets on whether he makes it through this season.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Frankly, I have to eat crow on this matter. I thought Brady was caught red handed and all the noise was just die-hard, defensive Pats fans. It actually is bizarre how poorly the NFL played. Scary for such a huge company to not have anyone substantial pushing for sanity.
They wanted Brady and arranged the facts accordingly.

Good observation at the end of you post. Biggest outcome of the scenario is it's obvious no one in the NFL office can sit down Goddell and speak to him peer to peer. He is surrounded by "yes" men.

 

[ffg53]

Brady was never a guy that was hated but was respected league wide, and that is going to change. Most people think he destroyed his cell phone and wouldn't cooperate for a reason, knew SOMETHING. Might not show up right away but at some point he may be the recipient of a cheap shot to knock him out of a game. I think I would enjoy that, as probably would many NFL teams and players. At his age take bets on whether he makes it through this season.

First, if I get pulled over by a state trooper driving home from work and he asks if he can search my car, I'm telling him "no, you cannot search my car." Does the fact that I asserted my Fourth Amendment rights make me guilty of trafficking drugs in your eyes?

Second, that fact that you would enjoy watching a player get hurt from an intentional cheap shot is disturbing. I wouldn't even wish that on Christian Laettner.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Brady was never a guy that was hated but was respected league wide, and that is going to change.

I think you're reaching here. He's the guy who beat Goodell, and pretty much every player in the league hates Goodell. Brady's court victory may be the beginning of the end for the good commissioner's term.

 

[intlzncster]

Brady was never a guy that was hated but was respected league wide, and that is going to change. Most people think he destroyed his cell phone and wouldn't cooperate for a reason, knew SOMETHING. Might not show up right away but at some point he may be the recipient of a cheap shot to knock him out of a game. I think I would enjoy that, as probably would many NFL teams and players. At his age take bets on whether he makes it through this season.

Actually, most of the players don't give a crap according to surveys. And in fact, you underestimate just how much the players hate Goodell. The vast majority consider this a huge victory.

And Brady made all the cell data available. Goodell said he didn't want it. How do you think you are reading about $8,500 pool covers? Do you even read the material? Or do you just opine based on your feelings?

 

[tzznandrew]

I think you're reaching here. He's the guy who beat Goodell, and pretty much every player in the league hates Goodell. Brady's court victory may be the beginning of the end for the good commissioner's term.

We can only hope.

 

[ctchamps]

Actually, most of the players don't give a crap according to surveys. And in fact, you underestimate just how much the players hate Goodell. The vast majority consider this a huge victory.

And Brady made all the cell data available. Goodell said he didn't want it. How do you think you are reading about $8,500 pool covers? Do you even read the material? Or do you just opine based on your feelings?

Was Brady head of the player's union? If so is this all about a personal vendetta? And wouldn't the players be supportive of Brady?

 

[intlzncster]

We can only hope.

I wouldn't hold your breath. Dude is a cockroach. Seems to survive everything.

 

[intlzncster]

First, if I get pulled over by a state trooper driving home from work and he asks if he can search my car, I'm telling him "no, you cannot search my car." Does the fact that I asserted my Fourth Amendment rights make me guilty of trafficking drugs in your eyes?

Second, that fact that you would enjoy watching a player get hurt from an intentional cheap shot is disturbing. I wouldn't even wish that on Christian Laettner.

Maybe just a black eye though...

 

[Husky25]

I wouldn't hold your breath. Dude is a cockroach. Seems to survive everything.

Goodell's contract runs through 2018. A new CBA doesn't have to be negotiated until 2020. Goodell will not be negotiating the new contract.

The owners are already looking for ways to curb his power. He's basically going to be a lame duck for the next 3 years.