Brady/Goodell Round 1 | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Brady/Goodell Round 1

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8893 said:
Fun watching the other lawyers weigh in.

I'm not sure there is as big of a void between Nomar & McCracken and The Law Offices of Frank Ivy as they might believe.

Nomar and Ern are technically correct, of course; but I think brother Ivy is merely echoing the truism that if you give the court a reason to want to rule in your favor, it will find a way.
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We apparently disagree on the meaning of pretext.

I don't think Frank shocked anyone's conscience by pointing out judges often work backwards.
 
Deepster said:
Finally. Brady is set free. Just like OJ was.
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Yeah but Brady didn't drive around for a few hours in a White Ford Bronco while 50 police cars followed him.............or did he? hmmmm
 
nomar said:
A court can't disagree with an arbitrator's factual findings or his decisions on how to weigh certain evidence.
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There were not appeal hearings. The hearings were meant to affirm the arbiter's decision. In order for a judge to affirm. He must review some evidence. In the NFL's haste to keep the case from Minnesota and Judge Doty, they may have shot themselves in the foot.

DogMania said:
Don't kid yourself. Goodell will survive this even if the outcome doesn't go in his favor. He's making the owners a boat load of money.
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Yeah, but he's doing it ugly. Most of these owners are like Mafia Dons. Make me gobs money, but keep the Shield clean. Goodell is failing at the second criteria.
 
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Danzz said:
Bottom line: Brady cheated and got away with it.
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Truther: "It's pretty obvious that Brady did something."

Rational Human: "What is that something? Where is the proof?"

Truther: "I don't know, but it's pretty obvious."

Me: The defining characteristic of obviousness is knowing what it is.

Occam's Razor.
 
Adesmar123 said:
Yeah but Brady didn't drive around for a few hours in a White Ford Bronco while 50 police cars followed him...or did he? hmmmm
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That is what is called a "yet"
 
TasteofUConn said:
Absolutely. The judge thinks the NFL is entirely full of s---t because they went after Brady without having any evidence against him.
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This is the part that never made sense to me. Why would the NFL go after and try to assassinate the character of Tom Brady of all people, and go to such lengths and create such fabrications to do so?
 
Danzz said:
Bottom line: Brady cheated and got away with it.
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I'll ask this question again: what's the cheating Brady got away with?

There's no proof the footballs were under inflated.
 
Rocktheworld said:
This is the part that never made sense to me. Why would the NFL go after and try to assassinate the character of Tom Brady of all people, and go to such lengths and create such fabrications to do so?
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It's pretty easy actually. There's been many reports from inside the NFL that this was pushed by multiple jealous competing owners. You think Goodell did all this of his own Accord? Not a chance.
 
8893 said:
Nomar and Ern are technically correct, of course; but I think brother Ivy is merely echoing the truism that if you give the court a reason to want to rule in your favor, it will find a way.
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Right, but the reason this doesn't hold up in this context is that every day, in every jurisdiction in America, courts sign off on arbitration awards that are incorrectly decided, based on virtually no evidence, etc. And the reason is because the law essentially compels them to. The craziest thing about this case is that it would have been incredibly easy for Goodell to avoid this result if he had been a little bit more careful in the conduct of the hearing. So, Ivy's general argument that Berman's ruling is a pretext might hold up when substantive issues of law are being tried to the court, but that's not what's at issue when you're confirming an arbitration award and, "frankly," nothing in his posts indicates to me that he understands that distinction, hence my conclusion that he's talking out of his ___.
 
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Robertelamin said:
Take the lawyer talk to the cesspool where it belongs.
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big-ern-celebrating.gif
 
HuskyHawk said:
Meanwhile, the NFL rules explicitly call for a small fine for this conduct, even if proved clearly. Yes, he knew all that, and even then the process the league used was so flawed that his analysis is spot on. The reason it works that way is simply that if the league had evidence it wouldn't have followed such an unfair process. It wouldn't have needed to.
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I wanted to highlight your last two sentences and expand on the whole "The court decision was only about the process, it doesn't mean Brady's not guilty" argument. The process the league by which the league determined guilt was found to be unfair and prejudiced against Brady. (This doesn't even get into the false information the league fed to the media in January to make Brady look guilty or the biased "independent" investigation that uniformly rejected every explanation offered by the Patriots side, but found no faults or errors on the NFL's part.) If a partial and unfair process was used to determine the original verdict, that casts doubt on whether they reached the right verdict.
 
Rocktheworld said:
This is the part that never made sense to me. Why would the NFL go after and try to assassinate the character of Tom Brady of all people, and go to such lengths and create such fabrications to do so?
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The NFL has had a PR problem this past year over issues of spousal abuse, concussions and putting players back on the field with injuries. They needed to demonstrate some modicum of oversight. Brady is small potatoes relative to the multibillion dollar business. When the refs chose to measure the footballs and found discrepancies with the measurements I don't believe it is a stretch to consider they chose to run with this questionable evidence to give an impression they have turned a leaf and are scrutinizing players more diligently.

It's a variation of the NCAA and the creation of the APR. The APR was and is a bogus standard because there is nothing set up to determine whether athletes are even taking classes. It actually punished schools that insisted on standards with it's athletes. An added bonus with the NFL going after Brady is they have created a media and fan circus around the Patriots that will be a monetary bonanza. Fans will show up to boo the Patriots. Same way there is an obsession in this forum by many fans about Kentucky and Duke who will turn on sets hoping to see those teams lose.

The NFL hierarchy is not incompetent by any stretch of the imagination. They just underestimated the fall out they would receive over the issues I listed above. They will be mindful of potential issues in the future but it will be token in the same way the NCAA decided on the ten year rule which conveniently let Syracuse keep it's one championship.

As far as the phone destruction by Brady it is just as likely he had evidence of an extramarital affair on it as there was evidence of involvement of football deflation. Not that there is proof one way or the other.
 
fleudslipcon said:
The NFL has had a PR problem this past year over issues of spousal abuse, concussions and putting players back on the field with injuries. They needed to demonstrate some modicum of oversight. Brady is small potatoes relative to the multibillion dollar business. When the refs chose to measure the footballs and found discrepancies with the measurements I don't believe it is a stretch to consider they chose to run with this questionable evidence to give an impression they have turned a leaf and are scrutinizing players more diligently.

It's a variation of the NCAA and the creation of the APR. The APR was and is a bogus standard because there is nothing set up to determine whether athletes are even taking classes. It actually punished schools that insisted on standards with it's athletes. An added bonus with the NFL going after Brady is they have created a media and fan circus around the Patriots that will be a monetary bonanza. Fans will show up to boo the Patriots. Same way there is an obsession in this forum by many fans about Kentucky and Duke who will turn on sets hoping to see those teams lose.

The NFL hierarchy is not incompetent by any stretch of the imagination. They just underestimated the fall out they would receive over the issues I listed above. They will be mindful of potential issues in the future but it will be token in the same way the NCAA decided on the ten year rule which conveniently let Syracuse keep it's one championship.

As far as the phone destruction by Brady it is just as likely he had evidence of an extramarital affair on it as there was evidence of involvement of football deflation. Not that there is proof one way or the other.
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You think that the NFL said 'since people are mad that we've allowed players to beat their wives and children, we should suspend one of the league's most marketable players for a minor offense?' I think they absolutely blew it out of proportion, but the league went after Brady because they genuinely believe they cheated.
 
CallMeBruce said:
You think that the NFL said 'since people are mad that we've allowed players to beat their wives and children, we should suspend one of the league's most marketable players for a minor offense?' I think they absolutely blew it out of proportion, but the league went after Brady because they genuinely believe they cheated.
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I know you do!

Like so many things we discuss in these forums there is no proof one way or the other and we're left guessing what really took place. In the end we all believe what we want to believe. I'm proposing an alternative hypothesis to yours in answer to at @Rocktheworld. You could be correct. But neither you or I can know for sure. So postulating a different emphasis on the same talking points isn't baseless particularly when there are many instances in which powerful organizations employ deceit and manipulation.
 
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Again the answer by the Pats guys will be "what do you have" and my answer is absolutely zero. But remind them they are the only one's on earth who still believe he didn't do anything.:rolleyes:

But who can blame him if it were Eli I'd be wishing the same thing.
 
mauconnfan said:
Again the answer by the Pats guys will be "what do you have" and my answer is absolutely zero. But remind them they are the only one's on earth who still believe he didn't do anything.:rolleyes:

But who can blame him if it were Eli I'd be wishing the same thing.
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You're going to hate me more but I'm an Eagles fan!
 
mauconnfan said:
Again the answer by the Pats guys will be "what do you have" and my answer is absolutely zero. But remind them they are the only one's on earth who still believe he didn't do anything.:rolleyes:

But who can blame him if it were Eli I'd be wishing the same thing.
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So the Earth is flat and the planets are imbedded in huge spheres in the cosmos in your world?

Popular thought does not equal truth.
 
Rocktheworld said:
This is the part that never made sense to me. Why would the NFL go after and try to assassinate the character of Tom Brady of all people, and go to such lengths and create such fabrications to do so?
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It's hard to imagine Adam Silver blowing millions of dollars smearing the reputation of Lebron James or Kevin Durant over a uniform violation.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
It's hard to imagine Adam Silver blowing millions of dollars smearing the reputation of Lebron James or Kevin Durant over a uniform violation.
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Yeah, the NFL now tops MLB as the league that wants to demonize their stars.
 
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Husky25 said:
So the Earth is flat and the planets are imbedded in huge spheres in the cosmos in your world?

Popular thought does not equal truth.
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Better chance the earth is flat than Brady being innocent but hey there has to be a few who believe otherwise right?
 
mauconnfan said:
Better chance the earth is flat than Brady being innocent but hey there has to be a few who believe otherwise right?
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In the absence of proof, what do you use to prove Brady's guilt? It's near impossible to prove a negative, which is why a verdict is either Guilty or Not Guilty.
 
Husky25 said:
In the absence of proof, what do you use to prove Brady's guilt? It's near impossible to prove a negative, which is why a verdict is either Guilty or Not Guilty.
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And your proof of him being innocent is what? It's funny but does anyone actually think the NFL would have even done anything at all without something to go on? :rolleyes:
 
mauconnfan said:
And your proof of him being innocent is what?
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Were you too busy ranting on a message board to review the "evidence" yourself, or do you count on guys like Chris Mortensen to keep you in the loop?
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Were you too busy ranting on a message board to review the "evidence" yourself, or do you count on guys like Chris Mortensen to keep you in the loop?
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Ranting on what message board? Help me out on this one Cracky?
 
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