Brad Stevens?

[metsfan2323]

My point is that how on god's green earth could he be declaring doom and gloom for Butler and the BE because they lost a 36 yo coach when at the same time, UConn lost one of the top 5 greatest coaches to ever coach BB and are in a conference where short of a couple schools basketball does not matter and the commissioner has so much as said so.

What about this irony are you missing?

We were lucky to have Jim Calhoun force feed Kevin Ollie onto a sceptical fan base and administration, so far Ollie looks like a another JC masterpiece.

You should know better than anyone that replacing a great coach is incredibly difficult, Providence is still trying to replace Pitino.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Call me crazy, but I tend to think Stevens will not get paid Doc Rivers money his first time out.

No, but 6 years and $22m is a helluva lot more than he's going to make as a college coach.

 

[intlzncster]

Call me crazy, but I tend to think Stevens will not get paid Doc Rivers money his first time out.

Yeah, but he's got to be pulling in 4 million per or so. He was making $1.1 million at Butler, so it'll have to be enough to entice the jump. I don't think he's doing it solely for the challenge, as he and his wife reportedly loved the Indianapolis area.

 

[Husky25]

Unless my math skills have deteriorated down to nothing, niether of those numbers is greater than or equal to $7 million, as was the subject of my response.

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[NHUConnfan]

I think this is a good move for the Celtics. They have to think outside the box if they're going to gear up for a potential run in 4-5 years. I don't think the current coaching pool will get them there (Del Negro...ha). Stevens can develop young talent and he's a great Xs and Os coach. Celts are probably moving Rondo while he's hot. There's good talent to be had in the next few drafts. I honestly believe Danny Ainge was right in blowing up the team.

 

[tzznandrew]

As good as I think Rondo is--and I think he's damn good, although I've never bought him as the best PG--I think they need to move him ASAP. His stats are gaudy from playing with other damn good players. While I think Jeff Green and, to a lesser extent, Avery Bradley, are damn good and should be kept, I think Rondo will struggle to keep his assists above 10 a game without a bump in TOs. I say he's worth a 2014 first rounder and an expiring contract (unless you're getting someone young you can build around).

 

[upstater]

As good as I think Rondo is--and I think he's damn good, although I've never bought him as the best PG--I think they need to move him ASAP. His stats are gaudy from playing with other damn good players. While I think Jeff Green and, to a lesser extent, Avery Bradley, are damn good and should be kept, I think Rondo will struggle to keep his assists above 10 a game without a bump in TOs. I say he's worth a 2014 first rounder and an expiring contract (unless you're getting someone young you can build around).

I would not trade him unless it was to a horrible team with a top 5 lottery type chance.
He's certainly worth a lot more than a 1st round pick.

 

[Gurleyman]

Butler was pretty good before Stevens was the head coach. Lickliter (although Stevens was a 20-something on his staff) put together a bomb squad in 2006 and 2007 that was built around AJ Graves (a guy who could shoot out to 30 feet), and some three-point shooting bigs who could stretch the floor. In 2007, they took #1 Florida (defending champs) down to the wire in the Sweet 16 but came up just short (Horford hit a couple tough shots to seal it). Lickliter then left for Iowa - where he lasted three years and now he's back in mid-majordom somewhere.

Stevens took over a senior-laden team at age 30 and did really well his first year, quieting people who thought he got the head coaching job too young. But most thought that was it for Butler's run (four senior starters graduated). He brought in the Hayward-Mack-Nored class, though, and then took it to another level. They took a step back for a year after they lost to us (Howard graduated, Mack left early), but they were a top 20 team again this year (albeit with the quick fix of Rotnei Clarke as a transfer).

 

[Gurleyman]

As good as I think Rondo is--and I think he's damn good, although I've never bought him as the best PG--I think they need to move him ASAP. His stats are gaudy from playing with other damn good players. While I think Jeff Green and, to a lesser extent, Avery Bradley, are damn good and should be kept, I think Rondo will struggle to keep his assists above 10 a game without a bump in TOs. I say he's worth a 2014 first rounder and an expiring contract (unless you're getting someone young you can build around).

The biggest problem with Rondo is that he's clearly one of the best point guards in the league for the first 45 minutes, but one of the worst for the final three (bad FT shooter, unreliable jumper). He always had Pierce to defer to as the playmaker/decision maker in late-game situations. The Cs need someone like that at the 2 or 3 to take the pressure foul shots and initiate the offense in late-game pressure situations.

Rondo got a little better late game in 2012 - but he doesn't want to go to the line, so he avoids contact on the drive, and he is reluctant to shoot unless it is wide open off a ball reversal. You can play off him and dare him to shoot. It was frustrating in 2010 watching Kobe not even have to put in any work on the defensive end as he sat in a one-man zone and had a sandwich.

 

[UConn990411]

As good as I think Rondo is--and I think he's damn good, although I've never bought him as the best PG--I think they need to move him ASAP. His stats are gaudy from playing with other damn good players. While I think Jeff Green and, to a lesser extent, Avery Bradley, are damn good and should be kept, I think Rondo will struggle to keep his assists above 10 a game without a bump in TOs. I say he's worth a 2014 first rounder and an expiring contract (unless you're getting someone young you can build around).

I agree that Rondo should never have been considered the best point guard (it was too easy to defend him late in games, as Gurley pointed out), but I think the bolded part is kind of absurd.

A lot of people point to the fact that Rondo played with great players, and they definitely should. Who knows how his career would have turned out if he didn't get to play with three 1st ballot HOFers?

But by the same token, Pierce, KG and Ray benefited significantly from playing with Rondo, too ... particularly in the latter part of their careers. Let's not forget how limited the Big 3 were their last couple years in Boston - Ray was primarily a 3-point/mid-ranged shooter, Pierce had lost all of his explosiveness, and post-injury KG scored most of his points on jumpers. As much as Rondo benefited from having so many skilled players around him, Rondo probably helped those guys continue playing at a higher level for longer than they would have otherwise.

I have no idea how Rondo will adjust to life after KG/Pierce/Ray (although he's done fine the few times he played without 'em in the past). I just take issue when people act like Rondo was the only one who benefited from playing with the Big 3 when, in fact, the advantages worked both ways.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree that Rondo should never have been considered the best point guard (it was too easy to defend him late in games, as Gurley pointed out), but I think the bolded part is kind of absurd.

A lot of people point to the fact that Rondo played with great players, and they definitely should. Who knows how his career would have turned out if he didn't get to play with three 1st ballot HOFers?

But by the same token, Pierce, KG and Ray benefited significantly from playing with Rondo, too ... particularly in the latter part of their careers. Let's not forget how limited the Big 3 were their last couple years in Boston - Ray was primarily a 3-point/mid-ranged shooter, Pierce had lost all of his explosiveness, and post-injury KG scored most of his points on jumpers. As much as Rondo benefited from having so many skilled players around him, Rondo probably helped those guys continue playing at a higher level for longer than they would have otherwise.

I have no idea how Rondo will adjust to life after KG/Pierce/Ray (although he's done fine the few times he played without 'em in the past). I just take issue when people act like Rondo was the only one who benefited from playing with the Big 3 when, in fact, the advantages worked both ways.

Also, a pg who can get a triple double on any given night is not solely dependent upon other players.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree that Rondo should never have been considered the best point guard (it was too easy to defend him late in games, as Gurley pointed out), but I think the bolded part is kind of absurd.

A lot of people point to the fact that Rondo played with great players, and they definitely should. Who knows how his career would have turned out if he didn't get to play with three 1st ballot HOFers?

But by the same token, Pierce, KG and Ray benefited significantly from playing with Rondo, too ... particularly in the latter part of their careers. Let's not forget how limited the Big 3 were their last couple years in Boston - Ray was primarily a 3-point/mid-ranged shooter, Pierce had lost all of his explosiveness, and post-injury KG scored most of his points on jumpers. As much as Rondo benefited from having so many skilled players around him, Rondo probably helped those guys continue playing at a higher level for longer than they would have otherwise.

I have no idea how Rondo will adjust to life after KG/Pierce/Ray (although he's done fine the few times he played without 'em in the past). I just take issue when people act like Rondo was the only one who benefited from playing with the Big 3 when, in fact, the advantages worked both ways.

I think he's very good. The bolded part is that his stats are gaudy because of his teammates. It's clearly only his assists that are gaudy.

I don't think it translates well on TV, but when you watch him live (as I have a couple of times), you realize something weird: Rondo looks for assists in a selfish way the same way Kobe looks for shots. He'll pass up open looks, or an open player (who might then be able to get a better pass for a basket). For someone who has led the league in assists, he a strangely selfish player. He'll go the extra mile for a bad shot that would give him an assist (or gives him a TO) rather than for the right play.

Feel free to blast me, but maybe someone who's watched him close up can see what I'm saying.

 

[UConn5]

Rondo is a great player. I think that they end up trading him because I just don't see him showing up all the time to play for a team that is rebuilding. Rondo was already having issues when he was carrying the load with Garnett and Pierce. He definitely isn't going to be happy with what is going on now.

That being said the Celtics already have a TON of picks in the next few years. I guess that if you trade Rondo, you trade him for picks and then down the road try and trade the picks for established players, but still...I just don't see him staying with the C's.

 

[intlzncster]

And we all talk about the ton of picks. One thing Danny Ainge has shown is that he is a very savvy evaluator of talent and subsequent drafter.

 

[uconnbill]

And we all talk about the ton of picks. One thing Danny Ainge has shown is that he is a very savvy evaluator of talent and subsequent drafter.

He changed his philosophy from taking the best athlete to the best basketball player.

Blowing up the Celtics has to happen and trading Rondo has to happen as well. The Celtics will get a young pg and a pick for Rondo at the least.

 

[tzznandrew]

He changed his philosophy from taking the best athlete to the best basketball player.

Blowing up the Celtics has to happen and trading Rondo has to happen as well. The Celtics will get a young pg and a pick for Rondo at the least.

He drafted in the first round:
Marcus Banks (13)
Kendrick Perkins (27)
Al Jefferson (15)
Delonte West (24)
Tony Allen (25)
Gerald Green (18)
Rajon Rondo (21)
J.R. Giddens (30)
Avery Bradley (19)
JaJuan Johnson (27)
Jared Sullinger (21)
Fab Melo (22)
Kelly Olynyk (13)

Only two of the picks were lottery (although he traded some, like Jeff Green for Ray Allen, which worked out well for the C's). Marcus Banks was a disaster, but I think he has a darn good record of good players falling into his lap later than they should have (Sullinger) or spotting talent where others hadn't.

 

[aceboon]

I think he's very good. The bolded part is that his stats are gaudy because of his teammates. It's clearly only his assists that are gaudy.

I don't think it translates well on TV, but when you watch him live (as I have a couple of times), you realize something weird: Rondo looks for assists in a selfish way the same way Kobe looks for shots. He'll pass up open looks, or an open player (who might then be able to get a better pass for a basket). For someone who has led the league in assists, he a strangely selfish player. He'll go the extra mile for a bad shot that would give him an assist (or gives him a TO) rather than for the right play.

Feel free to blast me, but maybe someone who's watched him close up can see what I'm saying.

I've been saying this for the past couple of years, I've never seen a player pass up so many open layups as he has to try to get an assist on a tougher shot for someone else. He's a stat padder to the highest degree, the stuff he was pulling during his double digit assist streak was absurd.

 

[intlzncster]

I've been saying this for the past couple of years, I've never seen a player pass up so many open layups as he has to try to get an assist on a tougher shot for someone else. He's a stat padder to the highest degree, the stuff he was pulling during his double digit assist streak was absurd.

Yah, but he'll take those shots when he's the only option on the team. Remember, he was playing with 3 hall of famers. He's not a total idiot (quite smart and introspective actually).

 

[aceboon]

Yah, but he'll take those shots when he's the only option on the team. Remember, he was playing with 3 hall of famers. He's not a total idiot (quite smart and introspective actually).

He's smart in the fact that he knew he would stand out as a PG more if he led the league in assists or maintained a streak, that's all there really was to it. Like tzzn said its weird to call someone piling up assists "selfish" but he knew what he was doing, he would literally have wide open layups, no defenders at the rim or closing in to contest and he would be kicking the ball back out for contested jumpers. I mean look at stuff like this and tell me he's not trying to pad his assist totals

 

[UConn990411]

Feel free to blast me, but maybe someone who's watched him close up can see what I'm saying.

I'm not going to blast you because you're absolutely right. Watching him try to pad his assist numbers during his double-digit streak was embarrassing - especially since the team was struggling - and he deserved a lot more criticism than he got.

My biggest problem with Rondo, though, is that he's completely lost interest on the defensive end. He used to be superior to most of the elite point guards on D, but these days he's become a liability.

 

[freescooter]

I think this is a nice decision. The Celtics aren't going to challenge for any titles in the next year or so, and Stevens might or might not be a great pro coach. He can work with young players and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, and he gets replaced once the "dead" peirod is ready to end. Not unlike what they did with Pitino, actually. During a period where they needed to rebuild, he was the focus, then they brought in an NBA coach to make a real run.

 

[intlzncster]

He's smart in the fact that he knew he would stand out as a PG more if he led the league in assists or maintained a streak, that's all there really was to it. Like tzzn said its weird to call someone piling up assists "selfish" but he knew what he was doing, he would literally have wide open layups, no defenders at the rim or closing in to contest and he would be kicking the ball back out for contested jumpers. I mean look at stuff like this and tell me he's not trying to pad his assist totals

I wasn't contradicting what you said, I just think it will be different now that there aren't the same fall back options. Who knows, it might force him to develop his midrange game (which has improved since he's entered the league.

 

[SubbaBub]

This is a good move for both sides.

The celts get a good young coach they can use for a few years while they rebuild. If he works out, great. If not, they can always attract a name coach once they have better players.

For Stevens, it was a clean way out of Butler. If he took a bigger gig, he's a greedy guy who left. Now, even if the celtic gig doesn't work out, he can have his pick of open college jobs.


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[mcs333]

Why would you say he's a greedy guy. He gave Butler 13 years, 6 as head coach. He has proven he is one of the top college coaches. Time for a new challenge. I assume his wife was all in since she neigociated his contract and is his agent. Great move by Stevens.

 

[nomar]

Butler was pretty good before Stevens was the head coach. Lickliter (although Stevens was a 20-something on his staff) put together a bomb squad in 2006 and 2007 that was built around AJ Graves (a guy who could shoot out to 30 feet), and some three-point shooting bigs who could stretch the floor. In 2007, they took #1 Florida (defending champs) down to the wire in the Sweet 16 but came up just short (Horford hit a couple tough shots to seal it). Lickliter then left for Iowa - where he lasted three years and now he's back in mid-majordom somewhere.

Stevens took over a senior-laden team at age 30 and did really well his first year, quieting people who thought he got the head coaching job too young. But most thought that was it for Butler's run (four senior starters graduated). He brought in the Hayward-Mack-Nored class, though, and then took it to another level. They took a step back for a year after they lost to us (Howard graduated, Mack left early), but they were a top 20 team again this year (albeit with the quick fix of Rotnei Clarke as a transfer).

Thad Matta was the coach there as well.

And Butler had some success prior to that; I remember Mike Miller beating them on a buzzer beater in the NCAAs a while back.

 

[freescooter]

This is a good move for both sides.

The celts get a good young coach they can use for a few years while they rebuild. If he works out, great. If not, they can always attract a name coach once they have better players.

For Stevens, it was a clean way out of Butler. If he took a bigger gig, he's a greedy guy who left. Now, even if the celtic gig doesn't work out, he can have his pick of open college jobs.


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totally agree. And taking the Celtics job isn't even like taking any old NBA job. It's the Celtics. Not the Oklahoma city thunder of some other unknown franchise. They are one of the all time franchises in the league. Nobody is going to complain if you take the job to rebuild a legendary franchise.

 

[2north]

totally agree. And taking the Celtics job isn't even like taking any old NBA job. It's the Celtics. Not the Oklahoma city thunder of some other unknown franchise. They are one of the all time franchises in the league. Nobody is going to complain if you take the job to rebuild a legendary franchise.

I get your point but this point in time I'm not sure anyone would turn down OKC if the job were available. A chance to coach a contender with Durant/Westbrook is instant notoriety.

 

[intlzncster]

I get your point but this point in time I'm not sure anyone would turn down OKC if the job were available. A chance to coach a contender with Durant/Westbrook is instant notoriety.

If OKC was rebuilding, most coaches wouldn't want to touch it. That's what he's saying.