Boston Globe goes after UMass football

[Palatine]

The unfortunate reality is that UConn's athletic financials will look a lot like UMass' pretty soon.

Based on what?

 

[Waquoit]

The somewhat sad truth is that many uconn fb fans don't care who the opponent is,

How is this sad truth? That's a positive.

 

[freescooter]

I actually thought the Globe piece was pretty balanced. It is correct that you can't make a sensible decision based on 2 years. UMass really needs to rethink the Gillette strategy though. Makes sense to play a game or 2 there maybe, but they really need to focus on developing a fan base from Worcester west. I know there are a lot of UMass alumni in Eastern Mass, but they aren't football fans since there never really has been 1A UMass football to support. they need to be focusing on the folks who have always supported UMass and on developing a new fan base among the student body. Playing games 100 miles from campus doesn't do that. they really need to play most home games in Amherst. An expanded McGurk Stadium to about 20,000 would probably work pretty well and is consistent with the MAC. 15,000 in a 20,000 seat stadium is a solid crowd. the same 15,000 in a 70,000 seat stadium looks and feels like nobody. Play BC at Foxborough, play some other game at Foxborough, then play the MAC home schedule in Amherst. Maybe you get lucky and some year you get BC or UConn to agree to play a game in Amherst and you have lots of folks on campus.

 

[huskypantz]

How is this sad truth? That's a positive.

It's sad if fans don't know the difference between playing Temple and playing WVU.

 

[HuskyHawk]

not sure I would call worcester a craphole, but I would agree the people of boston may not want to drive outside of 495. they certainly aren't driving to foxboro.

Drove by Gillette last Saturday, saw the lights were on. Wife asked what was going on. I had to look as we drove by and saw UMass on the jumbotron. No heavy traffic as with other events. Even a Rev's game is noticeable if you drive by the stadium area.

There are lots of UMass Amherst alumns in metro Boston, but none of them ever had an FBS football team when they were at UMass. So it isn't something they are used to. If they build it in Amherst, they will have a solid, small contingent of fans, but since few Alumni stay in western Mass, it will always be limited. But that will instill in the future alumni more appreciatiation for football. If I were them (and my taxes support them), I'd play on campus, and at Gillette against BC and UConn (or any real major home game like we had with Michigan, if they ever land one).

 

[Husky25]

I actually thought the Globe piece was pretty balanced. It is correct that you can't make a sensible decision based on 2 years. UMass really needs to rethink the Gillette strategy though. Makes sense to play a game or 2 there maybe, but they really need to focus on developing a fan base from Worcester west. I know there are a lot of UMass alumni in Eastern Mass, but they aren't football fans since there never really has been 1A UMass football to support. they need to be focusing on the folks who have always supported UMass and on developing a new fan base among the student body. Playing games 100 miles from campus doesn't do that. they really need to play most home games in Amherst. An expanded McGurk Stadium to about 20,000 would probably work pretty well and is consistent with the MAC. 15,000 in a 20,000 seat stadium is a solid crowd. the same 15,000 in a 70,000 seat stadium looks and feels like nobody. Play BC at Foxborough, play some other game at Foxborough, then play the MAC home schedule in Amherst. Maybe you get lucky and some year you get BC or UConn to agree to play a game in Amherst and you have lots of folks on campus.

I believe NCAA rules require a home stadium of no less than 30k seating capacity. UConn had a waiver to play in Memorial for 2 years as Rentschler was under construction.

 

[Husky25]

Drove by Gillette last Saturday, saw the lights were on. Wife asked what was going on. I had to look as we drove by and saw UMass on the jumbotron. No heavy traffic as with other events. Even a Rev's game is noticeable if you drive by the stadium area.

There are lots of UMass Amherst alumns in metro Boston, but none of them ever had an FBS football team when they were at UMass. So it isn't something they are used to. If they build it in Amherst, they will have a solid, small contingent of fans, but since few Alumni stay in western Mass, it will always be limited. But that will instill in the future alumni more appreciatiation for football. If I were them (and my taxes support them), I'd play on campus, and at Gillette against BC and UConn (or any real major home game like we had with Michigan, if they ever land one).

It's not like Foxborough is right outside Boston Proper. It is still 40 minutes away and not very easy to access without a vehicle. If a stadium were to be built in western MA, it would be just as easy to get there from inside 495 as it would foxborough. Also it would be easier to run specials and gain corporate sponsorship from the Greater Springfield Metro Region.

 

[freescooter]

FWIW I don't totally agree with Nelson's view but I do think that anyone who doesn't think basketball will take a hit long term in the American is either intentionally ignoring reality or hasn't a clue. UConn could still compete at a decent level, but forget about really deep runs.

As far as attendance goes, I think a few things have happened. First and foremost on the football side the team was awful. A cold December day, with a game against an equally awful Memphis team was lucky to draw what it did. On the other hand we also set a record for Michigan, and drew well for Maryland and a solid crowd for South Florida, considering that was 2 awful teams too. On the basketball side, the NCAA has created a monster with its tournament. For power teams, with the exception of a handful of "big games" against top opponents, the regular season is little more than an exhibition season where power programs ring up there requisite 20 wins to get tickets to the real season which begins in March and lasts about 3 weeks. Nobody cares about UConn-Houston since it is just one of those ticket-punch games that counts toward the 20. Its worse for UConn in a sense that nobody knows or cares about most of the teams in the AAC, but even Duke doesn't sell out most games any more. Rutgers had under 500 at a game. BC which used to draw reasonably well, had around 1500 for one game and 1200 for another. 3500 (in an 8300 seat arena) for a conference game against Maryland. Add that virtually every game is televised somewhere, in HD, with lots less hassles, cheap beer and nachos, the fact that for a decade or more, the UConn athletic department pretty much treated the fans as an ATM and nothing more, and basketball regular season attendance is never going to return to the 1990-2000 levels. with a good team, football could return to the Edsall era level, in part because its only 6-7 games. One final note, is that UConn has pretty much tried to build a UConn fanbase. Good concept but as the seasons have more and more started to overlap (the Dream Team's first game was Nov 24 and first home game was Nov 30, the 1999 National Champ's first game was Nov 15. this season started November 8) the demands on fans become impossible unless you commit your whole life to attending UConn athletic events.

 

[BHusky]

I believe NCAA rules require a home stadium of no less than 30k seating capacity. UConn had a waiver to play in Memorial for 2 years as Rentschler was under construction.

They got rid of this rule many years ago and made it much more liberal. Instead of 30k capacity a team must average 15k fans in paid OR actual attendance in 1 of the 2 most recent seasons. It doesn't get more subjective than that.

UMass took the Gillette deal because it got them closer to Boston where they thought more alumni/fans/media/population were. Makes sense, it is just that Boston is not much of a college football town and if people want to see games they could go to a BC game right in Boston. MA has no money to fund sports projects for UMass which would be a football complex and re-doing their current on campus stadium. The stadium they have has space to be renovated and in a good spot for this to happen pretty painlessly, so you would think that woyuld have been their first priority if they had the cash accessible.

 

[freescooter]

I believe NCAA rules require a home stadium of no less than 30k seating capacity. UConn had a waiver to play in Memorial for 2 years as Rentschler was under construction.

I don't think that rule applies anymore. I think it was replaced by an attendance requirement. A lot of the MAC and a fair number of Sunbelt stadiums are smaller than 30,000, some by quite a lot. Bowling Green I know is about 26000, and Ohio is in that range too.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I don't think that rule applies anymore. I think it was replaced by an attendance requirement. A lot of the MAC and a fair number of Sunbelt stadiums are smaller than 30,000, some by quite a lot. Bowling Green I know is about 26000, and Ohio is in that range too.

I thought they were expanding the seating capacity. Doesn't seem to be the case.

http://maroonmusket.com/2012/10/no-expanded-seating-for-mcguirk-alumni-stadium/

 

[huskypantz]

UConn could still compete at a decent level, but forget about really deep runs.

Why no deep runs? George Mason, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Memphis etc? No doubt there will be an impact, but winning and strong scheduling can minimize the impact.

 

[Marty Jackson]

FWIW I don't totally agree with Nelson's view but I do think that anyone who doesn't think basketball will take a hit long term in the American is either intentionally ignoring reality or hasn't a clue. UConn could still compete at a decent level, but forget about really deep runs.

As far as attendance goes, I think a few things have happened. First and foremost on the football side the team was awful. A cold December day, with a game against an equally awful Memphis team was lucky to draw what it did. On the other hand we also set a record for Michigan, and drew well for Maryland and a solid crowd for South Florida, considering that was 2 awful teams too. On the basketball side, the NCAA has created a monster with its tournament. For power teams, with the exception of a handful of "big games" against top opponents, the regular season is little more than an exhibition season where power programs ring up there requisite 20 wins to get tickets to the real season which begins in March and lasts about 3 weeks. Nobody cares about UConn-Houston since it is just one of those ticket-punch games that counts toward the 20. Its worse for UConn in a sense that nobody knows or cares about most of the teams in the AAC, but even Duke doesn't sell out most games any more. Rutgers had under 500 at a game. BC which used to draw reasonably well, had around 1500 for one game and 1200 for another. 3500 (in an 8300 seat arena) for a conference game against Maryland. Add that virtually every game is televised somewhere, in HD, with lots less hassles, cheap beer and nachos, the fact that for a decade or more, the UConn athletic department pretty much treated the fans as an ATM and nothing more, and basketball regular season attendance is never going to return to the 1990-2000 levels. with a good team, football could return to the Edsall era level, in part because its only 6-7 games. One final note, is that UConn has pretty much tried to build a UConn fanbase. Good concept but as the seasons have more and more started to overlap (the Dream Team's first game was Nov 24 and first home game was Nov 30, the 1999 National Champ's first game was Nov 15. this season started November 8) the demands on fans become impossible unless you commit your whole life to attending UConn athletic events.

I'm confused... Are you a Uconn fan?

 

[Drew]

Not to change the subject but why do so many people seem to be supporting the idea of UMASS playing their home games on their campus which apparently is in the middle of nowhere (i'm not from around here I really don't know anything about UMASS, so if its not in the middle of nowhere just ignore this) but the same people seemed to be opposed when I asked about the stadium being on campus for UConn when we were transitioning to D1 10 years ago?

For the record I absolutely think UMASS should move their games back to their campus. Dumb to alienate the students like that when you're trying to grow the program. UConn and UMASS are in different spots now because we started our transition 10 years ago but if they were smart they'd put their games on campus.

 

[freescooter]

Why no deep runs? George Mason, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Memphis etc? No doubt there will be an impact, but winning and strong scheduling can minimize the impact.

Oh sure, there are the occasional once in a lifetime things. Well in Butler's case twice in a lifetime. Memphis has been to the Final Four in 1973, 1985 and 2008, not exactly a permanent seat at the table. Got to the Elite 8 in the early 90s, then went 14 years before a return trip. If that's your model, that's fine but accept that it is a huge step back for a program that is where UConn was from 1989 on. Gonzaga has been there exactly zero times, VCU and George Mason 1 time each. If those are your models, again, that's fine, but at least admit that you have lowered your sites quite a lot.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Not to change the subject but why do so many people seem to be supporting the idea of UMASS playing their home games on their campus which apparently is in the middle of nowhere (i'm not from around here I really don't know anything about UMASS, so if its not in the middle of nowhere just ignore this) but the same people seemed to be opposed when I asked about the stadium being on campus for UConn when we were transitioning to D1 10 years ago?

For the record I absolutely think UMASS should move their games back to their campus. Dumb to alienate the students like that when you're trying to grow the program. UConn and UMASS are in different spots now because we started our transition 10 years ago but if they were smart they'd put their games on campus.

Amherst is more developed than Storrs. I don't know that a major stadium would work on campus for UMass more than at UConn though, the major issue is distance from the population centers of the fanbase and road infrastructure. UConn has a state wide fanbase and Storrs is in the far eastern edge of the state so it made sense for UConn to build the stadium where it was accessible and close to major highways when demand for the product was unknown. UMass core football fanbase is concentrated around Amherst and Western MA in general so I think a stadium in Western MA has to be the priority, either on campus or near Springfield somewhere, maybe the Big E since HardRock didn't get approved?

 

[freescooter]

I'm confused... Are you a Uconn fan?

I'm not sure what my comments regarding factors that impact attendance have to do with being a UConn fan, but since you asked, yeah, I am.

 

[whaler11]

Not to change the subject but why do so many people seem to be supporting the idea of UMASS playing their home games on their campus which apparently is in the middle of nowhere (i'm not from around here I really don't know anything about UMASS, so if its not in the middle of nowhere just ignore this) but the same people seemed to be opposed when I asked about the stadium being on campus for UConn when we were transitioning to D1 10 years ago?

For the record I absolutely think UMASS should move their games back to their campus. Dumb to alienate the students like that when you're trying to grow the program. UConn and UMASS are in different spots now because we started our transition 10 years ago but if they were smart they'd put their games on campus.

Because their goal would be to draw 15-17k. If that was UConn's goal Storrs would make perfect sense too.

 

[Drew]

Amherst is more developed than Storrs. I don't know that a major stadium would work on campus for UMass more than at UConn though, the major issue is distance from the population centers of the fanbase and road infrastructure. UConn has a state wide fanbase and Storrs is in the far eastern edge of the state so it made sense for UConn to build the stadium where it was accessible and close to major highways when demand for the product was unknown. UMass core football fanbase is concentrated around Amherst and Western MA in general so I think a stadium in Western MA has to be the priority, either on campus or near Springfield somewhere, maybe the Big E since HardRock didn't get approved?

thanks! Was just wondering since it seemed a little hypocritical but it makes sense after the explanation. Would still like to eventually see a stadium in Storrs 25/30 years from now when I think Storrs will be a lot more developed but until then I will continue to show up to the rent and bring whoever I can with me.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not like Foxborough is right outside Boston Proper. It is still 40 minutes away and not very easy to access without a vehicle. If a stadium were to be built in western MA, it would be just as easy to get there from inside 495 as it would foxborough. Also it would be easier to run specials and gain corporate sponsorship from the Greater Springfield Metro Region.

Gillette from downtown Boston is only 25-30 minutes tops with minor Saturday traffic. Also, most of the people in metro Boston don't live in Boston proper, so it is closer for most of them, and for people in Providence. It takes me a little under 2 hours to get to Amherst from Franklin, so it isn't remotely similar for people in metro Boston. Foxboro is definitely well inside the boundary of the Boston metro area, and the stadium is served by rail as well. The difference in access is huge. Amherst is further from Boston than E Hartford is from anywhere in CT, by quite a bit.

Agree that UMass could become western Mass' team so sponsors and promotions would be better.

 

[jackl]

It's sad if fans don't know the difference between playing Temple and playing WVU.

What are you kidding me!!! We know the difference!! All of us diehards on the BY know the difference. It is just that we are stuck for a short term in a conference that doesn't have a lot of Pizzazz. We can probably thank ND for these circumstances or who ever let them into the Big East Without Football. On the other hand we now have a young Dynamic coach from ND so I guess we should be thankful for somethings.

 

[dsturdy5]

Drove by Gillette last Saturday, saw the lights were on. Wife asked what was going on. I had to look as we drove by and saw UMass on the jumbotron. No heavy traffic as with other events. Even a Rev's game is noticeable if you drive by the stadium area.

The last time UMass played a home football game was November 16th so I doubt it was "last Saturday". The last football event on a Saturday at Gillette was the high school state championship games on 12/7.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I'm not sure what my comments regarding factors that impact attendance have to do with being a UConn fan, but since you asked, yeah, I am.

did you not suggest a 'deep run' is unlikely going forward, just before your little speach about attendance.
As a fellow fan, I can only imagine the excitement of not rooting for Uconn so that my apocalyptic predictions can come true. And then I can come on the BY and make 4,700 posts about being a fan and spread the gospel on the demise of Uconn athletics.
Maybe the definition of 'fan' has changed...

 

[BHusky]

thanks! Was just wondering since it seemed a little hypocritical but it makes sense after the explanation. Would still like to eventually see a stadium in Storrs 25/30 years from now when I think Storrs will be a lot more developed but until then I will continue to show up to the rent and bring whoever I can with me.

I don't have much land development experience, but the biggest difference between UConn and UMass is stadium location and land availability. There was no options to expand Memorial Stadium because of where it was located and the alternative option near Horsebarn Hill was squashed almost immediately because of the challenges with road infrastructure (i.e., they could hardly handle 10k for a BB game, 3x-4x that amount would not be possible to support). It seems the UMass stadium has plenty of room for expansion and this is clear if you google map their location. In reality if they closed off the endzones and did some slight renovating they could get the current stadium to 25k or so which is plenty for them right now.

The reality is that UMass is averaging about the same attendance at Gillette as they were years ago as a 1AA on campus. There is absolutely no positive for them being at Gillette because if they could host 16k on campus back in 2010, they aren't drawing more now. So if anything put the games back on campus, get the same level of fan support and at least let the local economy and students benefit. That would be the argument for them to put the games back in Amherst. Absolutely not an option for Storrs until some major infrastruction improvements take place (and more unlikley since Greek housing took the proposed stadium site).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think UConn and UMass fans are a lot like most fans in that they don't get real excited playing a schedule filled with schools that are almost all 500+ miles away. We all get that our conference situation is less than ideal for a while, but playing in a southern mid major league and not demanding some regional additions when the league is inviting Tulane and Tulsa doesn't make much sense

Plus, one extra Top 75 RPI program would make a big difference for the basketball league.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We need to be rooting for UMass and Temple to at least survive if not succeed. The more UConn looks like it is on an island, the less reason there will be for the Big 10 or ACC to add us.

 

[Husky25]

Gillette from downtown Boston is only 25-30 minutes tops with minor Saturday traffic. Also, most of the people in metro Boston don't live in Boston proper, so it is closer for most of them, and for people in Providence. It takes me a little under 2 hours to get to Amherst from Franklin, so it isn't remotely similar for people in metro Boston. Foxboro is definitely well inside the boundary of the Boston metro area, and the stadium is served by rail as well. The difference in access is huge. Amherst is further from Boston than E Hartford is from anywhere in CT, by quite a bit.

Agree that UMass could become western Mass' team so sponsors and promotions would be better.

Sports fans in Providence really don't care about Boston collegiate sports. They have no baring on this conversation...(Forgive the next 2-3 paragraphs, I hooked on to a minor point and beat it to a pulp. I agree with your access comment).

According to Yahoo Maps, it is 27.96 miles from the Golden Dome to Patriot Place, which takes (with no traffic), 34 minutes. The Old State House has the benefit of being about a half mile from and entrance ramp to 93 (Of course that's if the onramp is open and 93 is still running the same direction)...Regardless it is closer to my 40 minute time line than your 25 minutes one.

Secondly, you are absolutely correct. Most people don't live in Boston Proper. I had a girlfriend back in the day that moved to Somerville after graduating from UMass-Amherst. She had a car...if it would start...but took the T to her job in a hospital downtown. From Somerville to Patriot Place it is a 42 minute drive by car. My brother used to lived off of D Street in South Boston (I'm neither Irish, nor a native. Not allowed to call it Southie ). Yahoo calls it 36 minutes without traffic or hitting any lights (Really? No traffic in Boston? Yeah, that's likely to occur.).

If one lives inside 128/95, it is not 100% necessary to have a car and seeing as it is a somewhat expensive place to live (even in Slummer...I mean Somerville), many recent grads do not. Regarding rail service: It takes over 1:30 to get from South Station to Gillette...on Patriots' home game days. Does the Patriot Train run on Saturdays. I'm not aware...it may though. The regular commuter line does not run on weekends. The point is, all things being equal, UMass Football at Gillette Stadium draws the short straw. If they continue to go 1-11, they won't even be in the conversation over drinks at happy hour (Incidentally, HH is "banned" in Massachusetts).

Distance is really a non-issue because attendance isn't large enough at Gillette to matter. Perhaps as more students in the FBS era graduate and migrate east, attendance will improve, but UMass does not have the facilities, budget, or state backing that UConn does. Having a "home" stadium 3 counties to the east (4 if you count Middlesex) is just not sustainable.

 

[Marty Jackson]

here's the reality... you can't make up 3 generations of foundational fan support in 2 years. as uconn is finding out, it's difficult to do in 10.
marketing, advertising, on-field success, recruiting, and even coaching can't overcome that fact. They can help, but in the end, it will take a generation or two to really build the fanbase. While there is a small core of fans that have followed Uconn for decades, the bigger group I suspect is first generation fans. compare that to the likes of Bama, ND or Texas, you can go back two or three generations and see how the fandom was passed down.

 

[freescooter]

did you not suggest a 'deep run' is unlikely going forward, just before your little speach about attendance.
As a fellow fan, I can only imagine the excitement of not rooting for Uconn so that my apocalyptic predictions can come true. And then I can come on the BY and make 4,700 posts about being a fan and spread the gospel on the demise of Uconn athletics.
Maybe the definition of 'fan' has changed...

One has to accept reality. UConn has been to the Sweet 16 13 times in 26 years. That's 50% of the Elite 8 rounds played since 1990 have included the Huskies. We've been to 4 Final Fours, won 3 titles and been to 9 elite 8s in 26 years. In more than a third of the tournaments played since 1990 UConn has been to the Elite 8. Those Mighty Gonzaga Zags you guys are so happy to reference as why we ought not be worried...1 Elite 8 in that time. Then Memphis Tigers, another really great example of a tough mid-major...over the same period, they have six sweet 16s and 4 Elite 8s and 1 Final Four(though the 2008 Final Four has been vacated by the NCAA). Does it show that it is possible? Sure, but it is much tougher than when you are in a power conference. I won't even embarrass you by comparing George Mason or VCU with UConn's post season performance. I hope that UConn can be the exception, and I wish it were likely. Unfortunately there is not very much evidence to suggest that it is.

 

[Marty Jackson]

One has to accept reality. UConn has been to the Sweet 16 13 times in 26 years. That's 50% of the Elite 8 rounds played since 1990 have included the Huskies. We've been to 4 Final Fours, won 3 titles and been to 9 elite 8s in 26 years. In more than a third of the tournaments played since 1990 UConn has been to the Elite 8. Those Mighty Gonzaga Zags you guys are so happy to reference as why we ought not be worried...1 Elite 8 in that time. Then Memphis Tigers, another really great example of a tough mid-major...over the same period, they have six sweet 16s and 4 Elite 8s and 1 Final Four(though the 2008 Final Four has been vacated by the NCAA). Does it show that it is possible? Sure, but it is much tougher than when you are in a power conference. I won't even embarrass you by comparing George Mason or VCU with UConn's post season performance. I hope that UConn can be the exception, and I wish it were likely. Unfortunately there is not very much evidence to suggest that it is.

Uconn is the exception. What other school has won 3 NC's in the past 15 years?
Uconn is not defined by the AAC... 'Uconn is in a league of it's own, g-dammit!'

here's a new avatar for you.