Billions

[J187Money]

I thought Chuck would win v. Jeffcoat and then become the AG and go after Axe again. I missed that one.

The Taylor thing I saw coming.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I thought Chuck with win v. Jeffcoat and then become the AG and go after Axe again. I missed that one.

The Taylor thing I saw coming.

Well obviously with Taylor they showed it to us initial/seed via the quant basement and then explicitly with the actual sign, it would have been a twist if that was all somehow a ruse to get more money out of Axe. Also when Wendy repeated Taylor's line verbatim to Axe I found that very odd an atypical of both the show and Wendy. Obviously done to jam home the point Wendy was being manipulated.

It'll be interesting to see where they go with Taylor. I'd prefer the show continues to give Taylor the moral high ground and they live or die on the data/analytics game theory hill. That being tested and maybe breaking down at the Everest altitudes will be interesting, but please don't make them a heal to justify the audience rooting for Axe.

With Jeffcoat I'd almost prefer now to see Connerty go after him and Chuck fade out of that picture (let Chuck become GC for Axe Cap, go after Jeffcoat's money not position ). Dake & Connerty are really going to have problems working for Jeffcoat. Those two objected to Chuck's breaking rules to get the bad guys, so making up rules to rig the system for the rich and take advantage of & punish minorities isn't going to fly with either of them.

The show really has created quite a rich universe of characters we care about.

 

[businesslawyer]

I thought Chuck would win v. Jeffcoat and then become the AG and go after Axe again. I missed that one.

The Taylor thing I saw coming.

We all knew Taylor was spinning off. I was shocked how much damage they caused by doing so. In real life, the new up and comer leaving a truly large and well thought of fund doesn't cause all the money to follow the up and comer.

 

[businesslawyer]

Well obviously with Taylor they showed it to us initial/seed via the quant basement and then explicitly with the actual sign, it would have been a twist if that was all somehow a ruse to get more money out of Axe. Also when Wendy repeated Taylor's line verbatim to Axe I found that very odd an atypical of both the show and Wendy. Obviously done to jam home the point Wendy was being manipulated.

It'll be interesting to see where they go with Taylor. I'd prefer the show continues to give Taylor the moral high ground and they live or die on the data/analytics game theory hill. That being tested and maybe breaking down at the Everest altitudes will be interesting, but please don't make them a heal to justify the audience rooting for Axe.

With Jeffcoat I'd almost prefer now to see Connerty go after him and Chuck fade out of that picture (let Chuck become GC for Axe Cap, go after Jeffcoat's money not position ). Dake & Connerty are really going to have problems working for Jeffcoat. Those two objected to Chuck's breaking rules to get the bad guys, so making up rules to rig the system for the rich and take advantage of & punish minorities isn't going to fly with either of them.

The show really has created quite a rich universe of characters we care about.

Eh. My only interest in Connerty was when they showed him in the bedroom with his scantily clad flight attendant girlfriend.

 

[August_West]

We all knew Taylor was spinning off. I was shocked how much damage they caused by doing so. In real life, the new up and comer leaving a truly large and well thought of fund doesn't cause all the money to follow the up and comer.

No.

But they've positioned Taylor as more of an Oracle than a simple up and comer.

 

[Dogdeacon]

No.

But they've positioned Taylor as more of an Oracle than a simple up and comer.

Agree, but they really needed some signature play to establish that to the world ala Axe's 9/11 profiteering. As TV (suspension of disbelief), I'm fine with Taylor thing that would take 5 years in real life condensed into one & a half seasons < 1yr.

I didn't like or buy Mafee going with Taylor though. Didn't Axe & Wendy just use his loyalty trait to save Wendy? If he flipped b/c he was mad at Axe & Co for abusing that he should have said so or if he flipped to be the good guy again he should have said that instead of 'it was time'. And why does Taylor pick him anyway, Mafee to date is the everyman? Kim should have been the flip, but they chose Mafee because he's a more interesting and developed character and will have a nice Dr McCoy-esque juxtaposition with Taylor's Spock.

Last nit is the last two episodes they swerved too hard into the frock 'nA bro-ness of Wags. No CFO can function as more devil-may-care than the principal and he's become way too much of a sycophant to Axe. I might need Jesse to knock on the door for him again

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We all knew Taylor was spinning off. I was shocked how much damage they caused by doing so. In real life, the new up and comer leaving a truly large and well thought of fund doesn't cause all the money to follow the up and comer.

The fund wasn't all that well thought of though. A key departure can cause a lot of damage, particularly when the original firm was already weakened. I would have to watch the episode again, but I think Taylor only took half the money, and the other half just went home. Typically Taylor would have been under a non-compete, making it more difficult for them to leave.

 

[djct1999]

The fund wasn't all that well thought of though. A key departure can cause a lot of damage, particularly when the original firm was already weakened. I would have to watch the episode again, but I think Taylor only took half the money, and the other half just went home. Typically Taylor would have been under a non-compete, making it more difficult for them to leave.

Not only would Taylor be under a non-compete but Axe would own all of the ip. Besides, the technical infrastructure needed for Taylor to succeed would cost millions and take over a year to build, as would the code, acquiring data, and backtesting.

 

[Kolumbo]

While I like both Axe and Chuck story lines, this is like two different shows now. Not sure how they bring it back together.

The fundraising storyline is an exaggeration of what people in that industry go through, and is well done. Malkovich dusted off his Teddy KGB character for this, but it is still fun to watch. In the real world, Axe wouldn't do business with someone like Andolov, but I like the arc so I will let it go.

The AG's scam is pretty complex for a TV show. I was a little surprised they threw that in without a lot more explanation.

Teddy KGB : [to Mike, referring to Grama watching them play nearby ] It hurts doesn't it? Your hopes dashed, your dreams down the toilet. And your fate is sitting right besides you.

Grigor Andolov: I know you must've broken things people, deals, someone's hopes and dreams in order to get money back into your firm.

Just finished the final episode of season 3. Season 3 was a year of transition all around, almost an entirely different series. Not a bad move considering most shows become too predictable, but far too much transition from episode 1.

I liked Taylor, and she reminded me of C3PO, then Data. She is a machine either way.

Why was Grigor so obsessed with taking Taylor out?
Grigor tells Axe his is giving his money to Taylor.
Axe states he is going to destroy Taylor.
Grigor says it better not cost him his money.

This move by Grigor doesn't make sense.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Show is back with force, I found episode 2 season 4 far better than previous episode.

I like both Taylor and Axe making chess moves and occasionally besting the other. Definitely seems like SPOILER ALERT - show-runners gave Taylor a win in this one, setting up for later.

Wendy episode 2 parts were really good, previously the entire bondage affinity was an add-on that was there only because it was a great way to open a series about a man in power - now they are finally getting around to addressing what the fetish actually means and its consequences.

Also liked Mafee growing a pair even though I was rooting for him to be a nice guy.

So much better to have Axe be single and randomly hooking up, I liked the next elevator delivering a swerve into a personal trainer & not liaisson #2 which got even better when Chuck leered at her and hired her. But please keep Axe & the venture capitalist a partners with benefits thing so that he can continue to provide entertaining fodder.

Connerty being everywhere Chuck is getting kinda tiresome, in theory if they dug over Chuck's old cases they could bury Chuck quickly & forever, both of them should know which ones to do. I assume they'll get to this eventually and then just when Chuck seems doomed derail it when AG makes them do some racist autocratic bs.
I hear the next two episodes are epic, buckling up!

 

[mauconnfan]

Show is back with force, I found episode 2 season 4 far better than previous episode.

I like both Taylor and Axe making chess moves and occasionally besting the other. Definitely seems like SPOILER ALERT - show-runners gave Taylor a win in this one, setting up for later.

Wendy episode 2 parts were really good, previously the entire bondage affinity was an add-on that was there only because it was a great way to open a series about a man in power - now they are finally getting around to addressing what the fetish actually means and its consequences.

Also liked Mafee growing a pair even though I was rooting for him to be a nice guy.

So much better to have Axe be single and randomly hooking up, I liked the next elevator delivering a swerve into a personal trainer & not liaisson #2 which got even better when Chuck leered at her and hired her. But please keep Axe & the venture capitalist a partners with benefits thing so that he can continue to provide entertaining fodder.

Connerty being everywhere Chuck is getting kinda tiresome, in theory if they dug over Chuck's old cases they could bury Chuck quickly & forever, both of them should know which ones to do. I assume they'll get to this eventually and then just when Chuck seems doomed derail it when AG makes them do some racist autocratic bs.
I hear the next two episodes are epic, buckling up!

We won't agree on boxing out LOL but we will on this. Last nights episode was strong with Axe and the new bang affect, also yeah on Connerty they are running into one another too much but there could be a reason other than the obvious we will see soon. I also laughed when she was pulling his legs back after he saw her at Axe's. The janitorial back and forth with his new girl excellent.

 

[intlzncster]

I like both Taylor and Axe making chess moves and occasionally besting the other. Definitely seems like SPOILER ALERT - show-runners gave Taylor a win in this one, setting up for later.

They had Grigor fold too easily to Taylor. He still had leverage. And as ruthless as he is, I don't see him giving that up.

I hope Axe eventually pushes Taylor to overstep her moral code in retribution. As much as she wants to get into 'ethical' finance, she just can't do it. Axe corrupts her in-house, and then out on her own as well.

Connerty being everywhere Chuck is getting kinda tiresome, in theory if they dug over Chuck's old cases they could bury Chuck quickly & forever, both of them should know which ones to do. I assume they'll get to this eventually and then just when Chuck seems doomed derail it when AG makes them do some racist autocratic bs.

I got the feeling Connerty was pissed that the police were effectively backing Chuck for AG. If he goes after Chuck, he's gonna be going after the police's guy. Could be wrong there though.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Mafee finally stopped being comic relief, which was necessary for that character.

Connerty is still kind of useless, and not really credible as US Attorney for the SDNY. They have to beef up the character because as is, he is no match for Chuck.

Axe's vendetta against Taylor seems a little nutty. Hedge funds don't really compete with each other in the market. Two hedge fund managers may hate each other, but they could trade for years without ever crossing paths on a single trade, or at least ever know they did.

 

[Dogdeacon]

They had Grigor fold too easily to Taylor. He still had leverage. And as ruthless as he is, I don't see him giving that up.

I hope Axe eventually pushes Taylor to overstep her moral code in retribution. As much as she wants to get into 'ethical' finance, she just can't do it. Axe corrupts her in-house, and then out on her own as well.

I got the feeling Connerty was pissed that the police were effectively backing Chuck for AG. If he goes after Chuck, he's gonna be going after the police's guy. Could be wrong there though.

On Grigor I got the feeling that Grigor setup that circumstance as a bit of a test of Taylor to see if Grigor could fully gain control and push them around. A win-win, if Taylor takes the money Grigor's got full control - if they don't , Grigor has proven to himself that Taylor is cunning enough to keep investing with semi-autonomously. So that's why Grigor relented. Your point still stands to a degree and Grigor could have done something like have the new CFOs thumb broken just to show that gamesmanship can never trump muscle like he did with Axe & Wags.

Agree that a push to ethics limit is coming for Taylor - surprised we didn't get a self loathing scene of stripping off the hair & makeup last episode.

Likewise point about the cops muzzling Connerty is equally likely as my scenario of Connerty rebelling against Clancy Brown - hopefully that blows up in the latter's face ala

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I like this season a lot. It was time for the Foley and Grigor arcs to wrap up, and both were done well.

While the hack of Axe Cap made for an entertaining episode of old school dialing for dollars, trading systems are among the most secure in the world and go through intensive testing by third parties. It would be very hard to hack a hedge fund trading system.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Axe has mercilessly taken down former colleagues and even a 'little brother' for the perceived sins of negatively effecting him and daring to compete with him. It is pretty Tony Soprano-esque how he operates without empathy, but we'll excuse it because he's mostly taking down other absurdly rich dudes.
Chuck has been morally rudderless for awhile.
Now we have SPOILER ALERT Wendy plotting to eviscerate Taylor and even using her client privilege notes to do so. I'm against it and for it at the same time, meaning it'll be good viewing to watch exactly how everyone reacts and behaves. Turning up the heat on all the characters should be great - they just need to mix in a little introspection, particularly for Wendy. Axe can be a sociopath with no repercussions, but even Chuck at some point has to have more of a reckoning with his own misdeeds than 'just' hyper-aggressive dominatrixi beating the crap out of him.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Billions is quietly having a great season, but is getting drowned by Game of Thrones hype.

I like the show better with Axe and Chuck on the same side. The rivalry between them had gone as far as it could go.

Taylor vs. Axe is great. Two evenly matched antagonists, and you aren't sure who to root for.

I don't remember when this was decided, but why did Wendy agree to try to become part of the scam against Taylor? That was crazy, and destroyed the character's credibility.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think this season is really boring.

Chuck and Axe seem really omniscient at the moment so there really isn’t much tension.

Taylor vs. Axe seems petty and unimportant. Chuck versus Jock is more interesting but it’s not getting as much play.

Boring.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think this season is really boring.
Chuck and Axe seem really omniscient at the moment so there really isn’t much tension.
Taylor vs. Axe seems petty and unimportant. Chuck versus Jock is more interesting but it’s not getting as much play. Boring.

I agree about petty & unimportant, but disagree about boring exactly due to what Nelson said above, the characters are evenly matched. It should get better now that Taylor has a reason to make it personal, it has been petty, childish & bad management from Axe & his minions for awhile - but now that they've inflicted a permanent injury on Taylor its justifiable all-out war in retaliation.

As for Wendy, I loved the ending and the reckonings for Chuck & Wendy while they sprinkled in a celebration for the otherwise soul-less Axe. The Joni Mitchell song was tremendous.

I really don't fully understand Wendy going along with the scheming and in particular instigating the parental attack on Taylor. In truth Wendy should have counseled Axe to give up the nonstop takedown of Taylor as it served no business purpose and became only about ego. Punish Taylor for lack of loyalty and then move on. Instead, Wendy allowed Axe and herself to keep going because she is fiercely loyal to a fault (Taylor is not). Loyalty is what Axe likes about Wendy (& anyone), yet Wendy has at least displayed a moral compass at times and she has almost always told the truth to others and herself. During the takedown Wendy ignored the ugly truth of her behavior. Once her immoral plan succeeded, Wendy confronted the truth of her sins albeit with the help of Maffee. Where she goes next is really interesting to me as other than this detour she's been the most three dimensional character on the show.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Maffee really nailed the point, because for all his faults, no one thinks he is an scalitohole or has multiple agendas. This makes his indignation much more sincere and credible, and it hit home with Wendy.

Connerty's investigation seems very small time and desperate. So Chuck Sr. got a few permits a little early. I don't see where this is going.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Maffee really nailed the point, because for all his faults, no one thinks he is an scalitohole or has multiple agendas. This makes his indignation much more sincere and credible, and it hit home with Wendy.

Connerty's investigation seems very small time and desperate. So Chuck Sr. got a few permits a little early. I don't see where this is going.

The Connerty thing is weird. I'm 95% convinced they are setting Connerty up to be a laughingstock again and this takes the teeth out of his investigations. But knowing Koppleman's politics I HAVE to think he'll let Chuck take out the AG and maybe Connerty saves face & regains his morality or converts back to a Chuck minion as the lesser of two evils.

 

[ZooCougar]

I agree about petty & unimportant, but disagree about boring exactly due to what Nelson said above, the characters are evenly matched. It should get better now that Taylor has a reason to make it personal, it has been petty, childish & bad management from Axe & his minions for awhile - but now that they've inflicted a permanent injury on Taylor its justifiable all-out war in retaliation.

As for Wendy, I loved the ending and the reckonings for Chuck & Wendy while they sprinkled in a celebration for the otherwise soul-less Axe. The Joni Mitchell song was tremendous.

I really don't fully understand Wendy going along with the scheming and in particular instigating the parental attack on Taylor. In truth Wendy should have counseled Axe to give up the nonstop takedown of Taylor as it served no business purpose and became only about ego. Punish Taylor for lack of loyalty and then move on. Instead, Wendy allowed Axe and herself to keep going because she is fiercely loyal to a fault (Taylor is not). Loyalty is what Axe likes about Wendy (& anyone), yet Wendy has at least displayed a moral compass at times and she has almost always told the truth to others and herself. During the takedown Wendy ignored the ugly truth of her behavior. Once her immoral plan succeeded, Wendy confronted the truth of her sins albeit with the help of Maffee. Where she goes next is really interesting to me as other than this detour she's been the most three dimensional character on the show.

It’s just that the omniscience and the set up to damage Taylor and Father seem implausible to me.

You’re telling me that some government stooge is going to just waltz into a firm like that and they will take it lying down without at least engaging their Senator or Congressman on the matter I just don’t see people like that taking it lying down.

I think the acting is still first rate this season, it’s too bad that the writing has gone downhill. Just my opinion though.

I am actually more interested in seeing how Wags exacts personal revenge over anything else.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It’s just that the omniscience and the set up to damage Taylor and Father seem implausible to me.
You’re telling me that some government stooge is going to just waltz into a firm like that and they will take it lying down without at least engaging their Senator or Congressman on the matter I just don’t see people like that taking it lying down.
I think the acting is still first rate this season, it’s too bad that the writing has gone downhill. Just my opinion though.
I am actually more interested in seeing how Wags exacts personal revenge over anything else.

Yeah, that is all true. They solved it by the offer of an 8% return juxtaposed vs a lengthy fight - but IF the tech was that good it'd certainly be worth the fight & machinations on the other side. I was willing to suspend disbelief b/c they'd set us up to expect this was coming & meta-wise I didn't see Kevin Pollack becoming a regular and they'd never taken the time to actually explain the tech to us. The show purposefully dis-invested the viewer from the get-go so it'd be easier to give up.

Wags is too much over the top caricature at this point for me. I love him in a supporting quip capacity, but when the plot centers on him he's just too outrageous to be a CFO in my opinion. I like Taylor's CFO a lot better, so I would support a Wags plotline squaring off against her.

 

[temery]

Is the Spyros character just bad, or I'd it bad acting? I can't see what the guy adds to the show. Awful.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Is the Spyros character just bad, or I'd it bad acting? I can't see what the guy adds to the show. Awful.

Purely comic relief, most love to hate him.

I thought for a second he might accidentally KO $bill in ridiculous warm up and then we'd have all loved to see Mafee deck him.

 

[ZooCougar]

All Connarty has to do is tell Wendy that Chuck wouldn’t make a deal and boom.

 

[temery]

All Connarty has to do is tell Wendy that Chuck wouldn’t make a deal and boom.

Not sure it would matter. Chuck has moved on.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Purely comic relief, most love to hate him.

I thought for a second he might accidentally KO $bill in ridiculous warm up and then we'd have all loved to see Mafee deck him.

The fight between $bill and Mafee was completely predictable and still very entertaining.

This is probably the show's strongest season. It has basically turned into two separate shows, financial and legal, which is fine.

 

[temery]

The fight between $bill and Mafee was completely predictable and still very entertaining.

This is probably the show's strongest season. It has basically turned into two separate shows, financial and legal, which is fine.

The war with Taylor is getting old. I usually stop watching a show when the sub plots take over a show.

 

[businesslawyer]

The fight between $bill and Mafee was completely predictable and still very entertaining.

This is probably the show's strongest season. It has basically turned into two separate shows, financial and legal, which is fine.

I thought the whole fight and pre-fight scenes were great. They were predictable because, frankly, they are real. Successful people in financé and law assume they can do anything well.