BIG TEN Regular Season

[GoChips20]

Based on what. Iowa still has Clark who is still the best player in the conference. Maryland will have 9 top 100 players on their roster unless transfers happen. You never know with that team. The Big 10 will be a little down next season but I'm not impressed with Indiana for next season. Even with Holmes.

Berger is tremendous but absent a generational talent, teams that lose just one of their best players are often even better next year as the returners’ jumps can outweigh that player’s contributions. This might not be the best example since they didn’t have Griffin last year but I’d argue that UConn is better without Bueckers this year than they were last because of how the others have improved (obviously they’d be even more superior with her).

 

[Dillon77]

Based on what. Iowa still has Clark who is still the best player in the conference. Maryland will have 9 top 100 players on their roster unless transfers happen. You never know with that team. The Big 10 will be a little down next season but I'm not impressed with Indiana for next season. Even with Holmes.

You asked me what I based my thought on. ??? I wrote that the #2 Team in the country is returning 5 of its top 6 players; all of whom are proven B1G veterans at this point in the season. The Hoosiers will lose exactly 12% of the minutes played and points scored when Grace Berger and Alyssa Geary walk out the door. In other words, 88% of the team's minutes and people that produced points are returning.

@cancontent did an excellent job in her post looking at possible competitors, but let me cite a few more:

• Centers. McKenzie Holmes, to me, is the best center in the B1G this year. Monika Czinano and Emily Kiser are done after this year. Maryland really doesn't have a center, per se. Marked advantage to the Hoosiers.
• Maryland is losing Diamond Miller and Abby Meyers. Don't get me wrong, I like Sellars but how much does she benefit playing alongside those two? And how will she do when she's the focus of the opposition's defensive focus? Will Briggs step up? Does Brinae Alexander come back? And, with all due respect, Maryland always has some goings-comings. What will happen this year?

The main point is that I simply can't see how Indiana and mediocre will be in the same sentence next season. Maybe after that, but not in 2023-24.

Let me ask you a question: why are you not impressed with Indiana's prospects in 2023-24?

 

[sweetspot]

Alexander and Briggs are both coming back.

 

[Dillon77]

Alexander and Briggs are both coming back.

Thanks. That's good for all concerned. Let's see if they can provide what Miller and Meyers have for the Terps (or come close).

 

[sweetspot]

Brenda lost Reese, Owusu, Collins, Benzan and Bibby and has Maryland in line for a 2-seed. She usually finds a way.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Let me ask you a question: why are you not impressed with Indiana's prospects in 2023-24?

Didn't realize that Indiana had that many players coming back. I will admit Holmes is stellar but I haven't been convinced that the other players are just roll players. They have one top 100 player but two four star player in 2023. The Terps have one 5 star player plus three four star players including a 6'5" Marylander. Cooke and Reynolds are talented but they haven't developed the way Brenda has hoped. The Big 10 will be competitive at the top with Indiana, Iowa and the Terps. I still think the Terps are more talented and deeper. The Terps actually will have ten top 100 players if everyone returns.

 

[cancontent]

-Davis still has another year and it's been implied she's returning along with Martin, but no official word yet. Martin is the most versatile player in Iowa's lineup and is having a career season from the 3 point line. Warnock maintaining her elite 3p% as well. It's only Marshall who's been slumping.
-The team has a much higher defensive ceiling with an O'Grady/Stuelke frontcourt than with Czinano/Warnock. Question is whether that difference is enough to compensate for the loss of offensive efficiency and spacing on the other end.

Briggs has shown next to nothing all season and was never an efficient scorer even at Maryland. Sellers has proven herself a very valuable two-way player this season but I struggle seeing her as the #1 offensive option on a top 10 team.

Thought Davis graduated from Central Michigan. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Darwin]

You asked me what I based my thought on. ??? I wrote that the #2 Team in the country is returning 5 of its top 6 players; all of whom are proven B1G veterans at this point in the season. The Hoosiers will lose exactly 12% of the minutes played and points scored when Grace Berger and Alyssa Geary walk out the door. In other words, 88% of the team's minutes and people that produced points are returning.

@cancontent did an excellent job in her post looking at possible competitors, but let me cite a few more:

• Centers. McKenzie Holmes, to me, is the best center in the B1G this year. Monika Czinano and Emily Kiser are done after this year. Maryland really doesn't have a center, per se. Marked advantage to the Hoosiers.
• Maryland is losing Diamond Miller and Abby Meyers. Don't get me wrong, I like Sellars but how much does she benefit playing alongside those two? And how will she do when she's the focus of the opposition's defensive focus? Will Briggs step up? Does Brinae Alexander come back? And, with all due respect, Maryland always has some goings-comings. What will happen this year?

The main point is that I simply can't see how Indiana and mediocre will be in the same sentence next season. Maybe after that, but not in 2023-24.

Let me ask you a question: why are you not impressed with Indiana's prospects in 2023-24?

IU will be formidable next season. Only Uconn will bring back more experienced talent, and even then IU will have some advantages, specifically at the post. LSU brings in Del Rosario (sp?) she is good at rebounding and decent on defense, but her offense is a work ongoing. The Williams SG coming in for LSU will be really good however and Mulkey will be in year 3, I would expect LSU, IU and Uconn to be the top 3 programs. SC and Stanford won’t disappear but both may be a step behind in 2024.

 

[Dillon77]

IU will be formidable next season. Only Uconn will bring back more experienced talent, and even then IU will have some advantages, specifically at the post. LSU brings in Del Rosario (sp?) she is good at rebounding and decent on defense, but her offense is a work ongoing. The Williams SG coming in for LSU will be really good however and Mulkey will be in year 3, I would expect LSU, IU and Uconn to be the top 3 programs. SC and Stanford won’t disappear but both may be a step behind in 2024.

Thanks for the input. This is a B1G Thread and I'm going to respect that. However, if you're pondering a school that is returning the vast majority of its talent and bringing in even more, I might suggest...

...you look at Notre Dame. Hannah Hildalgo and Emma Risch joining Miles and Citron? Fun for Irish.

 

[Matthew1589]

Teri Moren is a good coach but her strategy of over-reliance on transfers (pre-portal too) is a little concerning. I know most schools are doing it, but Indiana has some highly talented prospects that are leaving the state despite their intense recruitment of them. Parrish left before returning through the portal, Michigan has come in and took players like Wiggins, Clarke, and Crockett which they went after hard. Top talent takes notice of this, and the program has had many kids transfer out over the last 4 years too because the perceived playing time they had when signing was taken by transfers.

Michigan on the other hand, KBA has always had good recruits/players but traditionally has done less with more. Player development has been an issue there since she arrived but they may be turning the corner a bit, time will tell. Nebraska is another team, good talent but something isn't clicking there with many of their fans wanting Amy Williams gone. Sounds like she'll be encouraging an assistant to move along possibly this season or next for sure to hire Britt Prince's mom to secure her committment. Maybe better days are ahead for Nebraska too.

 

[JellyBean]

Indiana is that good. Holy smokes!!

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Indiana is that good. Holy smokes!!

Should make the Final 4. This is their year as long as they are healthy.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Ohio State roars back. That press is back. Win 74-61. McMahon should be in the AA conversation next year. Michigan needs Phelia back or their season will end early.

 

[JellyBean]

Ohio State roars back. That press is back. Win 74-61. McMahon should be in the AA conversation next year. Michigan needs Phelia back or their season will end early.

Great win for Ohio State. Huge fan of the Big Ten (Minnesota and Michigan). Michigan looked like they had never seen a press before. Jeez. But when you go 19/51 and 7/21 from deep and turn the ball over 27 times. You get what you get. Tough loss for Michigan but Ohio State looked pretty darn good, especially when you get Harris (Ohio State) dropping 23 points. She normally giving them 8-10 points.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Great win for Ohio State. Huge fan of the Big Ten (Minnesota and Michigan). Michigan looked like they had never seen a press before. Jeez. But when you go 19/51 and 7/21 from deep and turn the ball over 27 times. You get what you get. Tough loss for Michigan but Ohio State looked pretty darn good, especially when you get Harris (Ohio State) dropping 23 points. She normally giving them 8-10 points.

Yea...if Harris does half of what she did tonight on a regular basis, then that should soften the blow a little considering all their injuries.

 

[Bigboote]

Harris had 7 steals, too. She was everywhere.

 

[undersized]

I'm gonna be rude an quote myself from last Friday. Same applies to tonight:

Michigan desperately needs a POINT GUARD. There were times last night were there was an open player but Michigan could simply not take two dribbles and pass the ball. In addition to all the turnovers, there were sooo many passes that were just off the mark a bit, making the recipient bobble the ball and grinding their already slow offense to a halt. Leigha Brown is a great player but relying on her to both run the offense as well as "get hers" is a tall task for any player, especially with Phelia being injured. At least Phelia could take some of the pressure of Brown as a play maker. Michigan "looks" better with Ari Wiggins on the floor in that she brings speed and natural ball handling. But she is so utterly unwilling to shoot -- even with the defense sagged off her by 10 feet -- that her presence offensively did as much harm as good.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

I'm gonna be rude an quote myself from last Friday. Same applies to tonight:

Hopefully Katy Eidle will be the answer next season.

 

[cancontent]

Great win for Ohio State. Huge fan of the Big Ten (Minnesota and Michigan). Michigan looked like they had never seen a press before. Jeez. But when you go 19/51 and 7/21 from deep and turn the ball over 27 times. You get what you get. Tough loss for Michigan but Ohio State looked pretty darn good, especially when you get Harris (Ohio State) dropping 23 points. She normally giving them 8-10 points.

This has been an ongoing issue for several years. This isn't a new thing for them and I don't understand why considering the conference they're in.

 

[Dillon77]

This has been an ongoing issue for several years. This isn't a new thing for them and I don't understand why considering the conference they're in.

It's been an issue since Barnes-Arrico's best point guard coach left to coach Miami of Ohio and then moved to Marquette. Someone named Duffy, Megan. Amy Dilk had her moments, but I can't see how Barnes-Arrico doesn't/hasn't use(d) her contacts in the northern NJ/Long Island area to find a competent floor leader.

 

[cancontent]

It's been an issue since Barnes-Arrico's best point guard coach left to coach Miami of Ohio and then moved to Marquette. Someone named Duffy, Megan. Amy Dilk had her moments, but I can't see how Barnes-Arrico doesn't/hasn't use(d) her contacts in the northern NJ/Long Island area to find a competent floor leader.

I'm sure I've seen that name somewhere

And regarding Dilk, she never seemed the same after suffering her ACL injury. Last season was an up and down struggle for her.

 

[Matthew1589]

Amy Dilk never seemed comfortable or sure of herself running the offense. I go back to lack of player development in the Michigan program since KBA took over. Hillmon improved physically and at the charity stripe, but still struggles outside of the paint.

 

[sweetspot]

Hopefully Katy Eidle will be the answer next season.

I know ESPN lists her as a PG recruit, but I think she's considered more of a 'combo guard.'

 

[Dillon77]

Amy Dilk never seemed comfortable or sure of herself running the offense. I go back to lack of player development in the Michigan program since KBA took over. Hillmon improved physically and at the charity stripe, but still struggles outside of the paint.

Matthew:
That's a pretty broad statement, if you think about it in relation to these three players.

• Katelyn Flaherty was the #68-rated player by Hoopgurlz in 2014. She was a 5'7" point guard who only played a portion of her senior year in New Jersey. By the time she graduated, she averaged 19.8 ppg, then the highest average for any Michigan player, male or female. She helped lead Michigan to the WNIT title in 2017 and was named MVP for her efforts. I might add her position coach was Megan Duffy, who left to take the head coaching job at Miami (of Ohio).
• Naz Hillmon was the 59th rated prospect coming out of high school by Hoopgurlz. She was an undersized 6'2" front-court player who frequented the paint. Yes, she has not developed a reliable mid-range jump shot but she picked up a lot of footwork and fakes in and around the basket to not just succeed at the NCAA level, but surprisingly do better than expected in the WNBA. Once again, she's 6'2". Listen, she's got her own game that's working. Bri Turner never developed an outside jumper and she just got invited to the U.S.A. National Team Camp. Sometimes, what you see is what you're gonna get. Work on the "get" parts.
• Emily Kiser. This one is still happening. A barely used player suddenly clicks and becomes a contributor. Not an unknown tale for a big, but it takes work on all fronts.
• As per Amy Dilk, you see spuds, I see potatoes. Was she 'Liv Miles? Heck now, she wasn't even Lindsay Allen. But guess what, she could set up the offense, much in the way Ali Patberg did her first few years before she was injured. Maybe she didn't develop into an WNBA-ready product, but she was an effective NCAA player until then.

 

[cancontent]

Amy Dilk never seemed comfortable or sure of herself running the offense. I go back to lack of player development in the Michigan program since KBA took over. Hillmon improved physically and at the charity stripe, but still struggles outside of the paint.

Matthew:
That's a pretty broad statement, if you think about it in relation to these three players.

• Katelyn Flaherty was the #68-rated player by Hoopgurlz in 2014. She was a 5'7" point guard who only played a portion of her senior year in New Jersey. By the time she graduated, she averaged 19.8 ppg, then the highest average for any Michigan player, male or female. She helped lead Michigan to the WNIT title in 2017 and was named MVP for her efforts. I might add her position coach was Megan Duffy, who left to take the head coaching job at Miami (of Ohio).
• Naz Hillmon was the 59th rated prospect coming out of high school by Hoopgurlz. She was an undersized 6'2" front-court player who frequented the paint. Yes, she has not developed a reliable mid-range jump shot but she picked up a lot of footwork and fakes in and around the basket to not just succeed at the NCAA level, but surprisingly do better than expected in the WNBA. Once again, she's 6'2". Listen, she's got her own game that's working. Bri Turner never developed an outside jumper and she just got invited to the U.S.A. National Team Camp. Sometimes, what you see is what you're gonna get. Work on the "get" parts.
• Emily Kiser. This one is still happening. A barely used player suddenly clicks and becomes a contributor. Not an unknown tale for a big, but it takes work on all fronts.
• As per Amy Dilk, you see spuds, I see potatoes. Was she 'Liv Miles? Heck now, she wasn't even Lindsay Allen. But guess what, she could set up the offense, much in the way Ali Patberg did her first few years before she was injured. Maybe she didn't develop into an WNBA-ready product, but she was an effective NCAA player until then.

Broad statement or not, there is some validity in Matthew's point, however I think there's more to it than just KBA. The Michigan program has seen several assistant coaches leave the program over the past 4 years from what I'm aware of. If memory is correct, the post coach has changed at least 3 times since Naz Hillmon arrival on campus. Guard position coaches have left over the last couple seasons, including Wesley Brooks and Yvonne Sanchez after their Sweet Sixteen appearance. Believe they had another guard coach move onto a head coaching gig this past season too.

While it may be a good problem to have because it speaks to coaching development, it also impacts player development at the same time. Having some consistency helps and that hasn't been the case for Michigan these last couple seasons.

Erin Baath is now on staff for the post position, leaving NC State last season. Time will tell how she'll impact this position, as the heir apparent to Kiser isn't clear because players like Williams and Evans aren't consistent. This position is what sticks out to me as a weak spot for the next few years.

At the same time, Dillon77 has made some great points regarding players who have developed since KBA took over the program. Definitely not fair to say that development hasn't happened, especially when the program has been to a Sweet 16 and Elite 8 in successive years.