Big Red has class / This guy is a thug racist

[Uconnrick]

Now I admit I was trying to get a reaction with my "If he didn't say it , he was thinking it" comment.

So the reaction always has to be equal to the original action? You ca hit someone and say he deserved it?

Well,,,,everytime I've hit someone, he deserved it

 

[SubbaBub]

Now I admit I was trying to get a reaction with my "If he didn't say it , he was thinking it" comment.

So the reaction always has to be equal to the original action? You ca hit someone and say he deserved it?

Where did I say Smart shouldn't be suspended? As of right now, Smart is the only one to be disciplined. If TT pulled this guys ticket, that needs to be made public. It is important.

As for those who are adamant he didn't say anything racist, where is your proof he didn't. OSU has clearly muzzled Smart and isn't commenting on what Orr said (another problem, btw).

"Piece of crap" you don't think TT, B12, Mr. Orr reviewed the tapes before making a statement? The tape is inconclusive. What where the words before those? Black piece of crap? The.camera wasn't on Orr and the mics aren't designed to pickup individual voices (something Jim Calhoun is thankful for).

So what happened? Orr was engaging is run of the mill trash talk? Telling yo mama jokes? Maybe he didnt say the n word, that's not the point.

This isn't a court of law and a bunch of people here are being willfully naive.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Where did I say Smart shouldn't be suspended? As of right now, Smart is the only one to be disciplined. If TT pulled this guys ticket, that needs to be made public. It is important.

As for those who are adamant he didn't say anything racist, where is your proof he didn't. OSU has clearly muzzled Smart and isn't commenting on what Orr said (another problem, btw).

"Piece of crap" you don't think TT, B12, Mr. Orr reviewed the tapes before making a statement? The tape is inconclusive. What where the words before those? Black piece of crap? The.camera wasn't on Orr and the mics aren't designed to pickup individual voices (something Jim Calhoun is thankful for).

So what happened? Orr was engaging is run of the mill trash talk? Telling yo mama jokes? Maybe he didnt say the n word, that's not the point.

This isn't a court of law and a bunch of people here are being willfully naive.

It seems to me that you really want Orr to have said something racist, when there's no evidence of that.

 

[UCHuskies08]

I love how quick everyone is to assume he dropped the N-bomb. After all, he's a fat old white guy from Texas, that must be it. There are fans who berate players every single game on the team they root for, it's because they're psychotic and insecure, not because they're racist.

 

[Adesmar123]

Where did I say Smart shouldn't be suspended? As of right now, Smart is the only one to be disciplined. If TT pulled this guys ticket, that needs to be made public. It is important.

As for those who are adamant he didn't say anything racist, where is your proof he didn't. OSU has clearly muzzled Smart and isn't commenting on what Orr said (another problem, btw).

"Piece of crap" you don't think TT, B12, Mr. Orr reviewed the tapes before making a statement? The tape is inconclusive. What where the words before those? Black piece of crap? The.camera wasn't on Orr and the mics aren't designed to pickup individual voices (something Jim Calhoun is thankful for).

So what happened? Orr was engaging is run of the mill trash talk? Telling yo mama jokes? Maybe he didnt say the n word, that's not the point.

This isn't a court of law and a bunch of people here are being willfully naive.

Are we really making things up at this point? I heard Smart called him a Cracker when he ran into him. I have no evidence, but a friend of a friend who saw it on tape said if you look at Smarts hands he was making a gang gesture.

How's that? Is my evidence any weaker than yours?

 

[tzznandrew]

Are we really making things up at this point? I heard Smart called him a Cracker when he ran into him. I have no evidence, but a friend of a friend who saw it on tape said if you look at Smarts hands he was making a gang gesture.

How's that? Is my evidence any weaker than yours?

Well, Smart supposedly said that there was a slur. It's not out of nowhere.

Now maybe he's making it up to get out of a bad situation, or something. But once you start suggesting that, you're going down the same road you're accusing Subba of.

 

[Adesmar123]

Well, Smart supposedly said that there was a slur. It's not out of nowhere.

Now maybe he's making it up to get out of a bad situation, or something. But once you start suggesting that, you're going down the same road you're accusing Subba of.

Yes that's the point. No one knows the absolute and complete truth. You can't just make up one side, say he deserved it and hang the fan. So far we have one guy saying something was said, and no evidence that anyone said anything except what the fan said - piece of crap.

 

[babysheep]

Here's to hoping "thug" becomes a BY meme.

 

[Uconnrick]

I love how quick everyone is to assume he dropped the N-bomb. After all, he's a fat old white guy from Texas, that must be it. There are fans who berate players every single game on the team they root for, it's because they're psychotic and insecure, not because they're racist.

Couldn't have said it any better. However, the name for a fan that berates players every single game (as well as Santa) is an Eagle fan.

 

[mauconnfan]

Smart spoke very well in the press conf and took full responsibility apologizing to basically everyone and doing it sincerely, actually seems like a good kid but got carried away in the heat of the moment just a shove not a punch. Definitely will learn from it. This guy is not "World" so let's not make this something that it isn't. He'll serve his games and go on to the pros where they want fire and toughness, don't think this hurts him in the long run.

This won't hurt him any more than the last few games where he's shown frustration on the court and on the bench as well……he hurt himself well before this incident. Fact is the kid should have left last year in hindsight……they now know he can't shoot worth a lick and is pure athlete, and a good one. But at his size shooting 28% from the college 3 isn't too good……I liked the kid last year and handled his stardom really well, but the wall he has hit this year seems to have changed the person he was so which is real? I am sure the NBA GM's are also asking that question as we speak….his return and finish to his soph year may be huge financially to him!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well, Smart supposedly said that there was a slur. It's not out of nowhere.

Now maybe he's making it up to get out of a bad situation, or something. But once you start suggesting that, you're going down the same road you're accusing Subba of.

It's actually not even clear that Smart said to the Oklahoma State coaches that Orr used a racial slur. The source on that is from an ESPN story that cites comes from someone "close to the program" based on what that person believes Smart told the OSU coaching staff. That source is close to six degrees of separation from what was actually said.

I think the argument in this thread is that it is OK to use physical violence if you don't like what someone says. I just want to make sure I have the essence of the original post correct.

 

[tzznandrew]

It's actually not even clear that Smart said to the Oklahoma State coaches that Orr used a racial slur. The source on that is from an ESPN story that cites comes from someone "close to the program" based on what that person believes Smart told the OSU coaching staff. That source is close to six degrees of separation from what was actually said.

I think the argument in this thread is that it is OK to use physical violence if you don't like what someone says. I just want to make sure I have the essence of the original post correct.

I'm not sure that's really the argument. The initial post suggests that the guy in the crowd was a thug...I think it can be the case that Smart made a big mistake, but that the guy in the audience did also. That doesn't mean the fan deserved it, but it doesn't mean--if he did do that--he shouldn't face some consequence. Just not from Smart.

You're right that it is a "source close to the program," but I gotta say, forgetting the whole "how could that push Marcus Smart that far" angle, it seems that not coming to any more home or road games this year would be an over the top response to not even using profanity.

 

[Goat]

There is NO justification for an athlete to assault a fan.

That said, the issue of the fan's role has to be in play also. It is reasonable to assume that the provocation was more than "Thanks for fouling, now we will win, sir!" That is because you expect Smart to be able to handle the type of remark that Orr has copped to. Early reports included:
1. OSU announcer stated Smart told coach that the man said the "n" word.
2. Old footage of "super fan" Orr becoming part of another game was coming up in searches.
3. Gottlieb tweeted to the effect that TT was a bad place to be the visiting team and said that when he played Coach Sutton wouldn't bring his family to Lubock.

Orr wouldn't say anything to Smart if they met on the street. His sense of being entitled as a "superfan" to demean Smart at TT's house is wrong. To put it in terms an Orr could understand, if you are at a zoo, you can't poke the animals. There is no reason not to chant clever taunts (unless your an obnoxious dookie), but personal confrontation is deplorable.

What outcome was Orr looking for? Basking in the glory of those two women repeatedly telling him "you put him in his place,daddy" all the way to Waco?

 

[kibblesnbits]

Smart was absolutely wrong, but I must admit the smug smile on Orr's face afterwards annoyed the hell out of me.

 

[jibsey]

Someone walks up to you in your job, gets 2 inches from your face and says " you are a piece of crap". You might give them a little shove at the least.

 

[Strummer]

Someone walks up to you in your job, gets 2 inches from your face and says " you are a piece of crap". You might give them a little shove at the least.

Okay. Big difference.

Someone walks up to you and puts themselves 2 inches from my face, at that moment I believe I am about to be attacked, and I therefore have a right to defend myself with an appropriate amount of force. In that case it might be something as simple as pushing the person away to create distance, backing away, and so on. If there was reason to believe the individual was armed, it might mean pulling a weapon. Depends on the situation, and each one is unique.

That's not what happened to Mr. Smart. As it turns out, some guy many feet away from him said something stupid, like "you're a piece of crap," and Mr. Smart made the decision to get up and attack the man. Very poor decision making by both men. The first man, IMO, does not have the right to call Mr. Smart anything offensive. I happen to believe that there should be no place in sports for a fan close to a player to call him "crap" or anything offensive like that. Cheer or don't cheer. Jeer even. But personal insults from up close should warrant an escort out of the stadium. Why do we make exceptions for such foul behavior because the person has paid money for a ticket. Mr. Smart, for his part, decided to assault a man for being called a piece of crap. Very poor decision, and very poor control of his emotions. But this is not the first time he's shown that propensity. He was losing control some other game when he was wandering around the stadium or something.

Both not okay, but please don't try to let Mr. Smart off the hook by suggesting that the other guy was "in his face." He was not. He wasn't even close to being in Smart's face. Smart decided that he was going to go all bad-ass on the guy. Smart will do it again at some point. He has an anger/emotion control issue, and my many years on the planet have taught me that those don't go away, but only re-manifest themselves when new triggers occur, which they will.

Punishments seem about right to me - Smart 3 game ban, Fan gone for year. Smart should be told that another push and he's gone for good. Fan should be told another, single insulting comment and he can be a Longhorn fan.

And to the members of the black community who were quick to allege that the idiot fan called Smart a n!gger, shame on you for attempting to foment discord and curry attention. Race relations in this country are bad enough - everybody needs to work on not jumping to conclusions when race issues spring up, because conclusions jumped to are usually wrong.

 

[SubbaBub]

Yes that's the point. No one knows the absolute and complete truth. You can't just make up one side, say he deserved it and hang the fan. So far we have one guy saying something was said, and no evidence that anyone said anything except what the fan said - piece of crap.

Smart knows. Are you implying he raced into the stands for no legitimate reason. That seems more far fetched.

I am not making anything up. It you who appears to be dismissing facts. Smith was provoked, by what exactly I can't say. However, he has previously played about a hundred other games with fans getting on him without attacking them. Orr has also shouted various things at other players without them climbing into the stands. What's different here?

I'll take a race based insult and give you the field straight up even money.

 

[SubbaBub]

It's actually not even clear that Smart said to the Oklahoma State coaches that Orr used a racial slur. The source on that is from an ESPN story that cites comes from someone "close to the program" based on what that person believes Smart told the OSU coaching staff. That source is close to six degrees of separation from what was actually said.

I think the argument in this thread is that it is OK to use physical violence if you don't like what someone says. I just want to make sure I have the essence of the original post correct.

It's not OK. No one is suggesting otherwise. The issue is Orr responsibility in all this and the NCAA apparent willingness to tolerate such behavior from a well connected booster.

Smart is an all-american and an intelligent kid. Why is no one questioning what possessed him to do what he did? A rude fan calling him a piece of crap doesn't meet the threshold of believability.

 

[Strummer]

I'll take a race based insult and give you the field straight up even money.

You lose. Nobody who was there, including Smart, has said that it was race related. Not the fans, not the coach, and not Smart.

​

 

[SubbaBub]

You lose. Nobody, including Smart, has said that it was race related. Not the fans, not the coach, and not Smart.
YouTube Video

If you can ID one person in that list with an interest in prolonging this incident I'll concede the point. But I'm sure TT's investigation of their #1 booster was very thorough, their sanctions against said booster just, and their policies for fan behavior going forward revised accordingly.

 

[CTBasketball]

I'm tired of hearing about this because Smart just lost his cool. No need to make excuses for him, the kid has got a hot head and it boiled over the top.

 

[Adesmar123]

If you can ID one person in that list with an interest in prolonging this incident I'll concede the point. But I'm sure TT's investigation of their #1 booster was very thorough, their sanctions against said booster just, and their policies for fan behavior going forward revised accordingly.

I guess it comes down to ..is there evidence or isn't there that the booster used a racial slur. I don't want to hear that a friend overheard a friend talking about what someone said....The booster said he said a piece of crap, Smart hasn't said anything about what he heard. Is there any factual evidence?

For those of you old enough to remember.....this sounds like the "Paul is dead" rumors.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are literally thousands of verbal comebacks Smart could have made to a fat old fool like Orr that would have brought the whole section down. These guys spend a big chunk of their life working on trash talk to use against other players, and Smart can't come up with something to say to that doofus?

Orr has no responsibility in this. He is a fan. He shouldn't matter unless he initiates the physical confrontation, which he didn't.

 

[Huskybass]

There are literally thousands of verbal comebacks Smart could have made to a fat old fool like Orr that would have brought the whole section down. These guys spend a big chunk of their life working on trash talk to use against other players, and Smart can't come up with something to say to that doofus?

Orr has no responsibility in this. He is a fan. He shouldn't matter unless he initiates the physical confrontation, which he didn't.

Disagree 100%. Fans shouldn't have the ability to taunt players without repercussions. Smart may have overreacted, but I am guessing this guy crossed the line and deserved it to some degree. He even admitted publicly that he acted inappropriately and caused the incident.

 

[huskymedic]

Disagree 100%. Fans shouldn't have the ability to taunt players without repercussions.

Do you consider "student sections" fans?

Heard much worse originating from student sections over the years (organized and unorganized).

 

[SubbaBub]

I guess it comes down to ..is there evidence or isn't there that the booster used a racial slur. I don't want to hear that a friend overheard a friend talking about what someone said....The booster said he said a piece of crap, Smart hasn't said anything about what he heard. Is there any factual evidence?

For those of you old enough to remember.....this sounds like the "Paul is dead" rumors.

SI has an interesting take. I don't believe the "party line" either. Which is our difference, because there is zero proof he said 'piece of crap."

 

[Adesmar123]

SI has an interesting take. I don't believe the "party line" either. Which is our difference, because there is zero proof he said 'piece of crap."

Orr side that's what he said. How is that different than Smart's defense?

 

[mauconnfan]

SI has an interesting take. I don't believe the "party line" either. Which is our difference, because there is zero proof he said 'piece of crap."

Zero proof anything thus far…hearsay

 

[Huskybass]

Do you consider "student sections" fans?

Heard much worse originating from student sections over the years (organized and unorganized).

It depends on whether they cross the line or not. Using the N word (if he did) would be an example of clearly crossing the line. Not saying he did that. Just saying that some behavior by fans is simply unacceptable, and should not be permitted or tolerated.

 

[huskymedic]

It depends on whether they cross the line or not. Using the N word (if he did) would be an example of clearly crossing the line. Not saying he did that. Just saying that some behavior by fans is simply unacceptable, and should not be permitted or tolerated.

I get your point to a point - Take out the racial aspect (which an overwhelming number of people would say is clearly over the line) - determining what crosses the line is quite subjective. There have been student athletes who have been unmercifully tortured over the years. Is a student section chanting "" over the line? Kids flipping the bird? Tough call.