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[upstater]

I thought the "cut" was merely not maintaining the subsidies that the state provided during Covid? Terminating subsidies which were designed to support the university during the pandemic isn't a cut.

Full disclosure though, I didn't click on the link I'm just working from memory, but I will later.

It's both. The state is both cutting funding and there is no more Covid relief.

 

[upstater]

What's the cut off line in your view? Because if it's millions of dollars then we ought to terminate both men and women's basketball in addition to football.

Let's not talk about UConn, because when your university is cutting $70m in academic courses & departments, you should be looking at everything.

$10-$15m is what I imagine Ivy Leagues lose on sports. So, that's what you should be shooting for.

If the state wants to explicitly fund a $40m loss, then you can and should maintain all your sports, but this is hard to do when you're in huge cutting mode for the academic side.

 

[CL82]

$10-$15m is what I imagine Ivy Leagues lose on sports. So, that's what you should be shooting for.

Why? We lack their massive endowments and they lack our state subsidy. Seems like an apple to oranges comparison.

 

[CL82]

It's both. The state is both cutting funding and there is no more Covid relief.

OK so let's agree that not continuing to provide pandemic relief after the end of a pandemic isn't a cut.

Regarding the remainder, are you saying that it is it not least level with pre-pandemic funding?

 

[upstater]

Why? We lack their massive endowments and they lack our state subsidy. Seems like an apple to oranges comparison.

I think we're losing the plot of the conversation here.

I was asked how much of a loss is reasonable. I only mentioned the Ivies because I knew what they lose.

You could cite the losses at any number of colleges of all stripes, endowments or not, and argue whether they are sustainable. The point is that the will to cut massive losses DOES NOT mean someone is advocating for the elimination of all losses.

 

[upstater]

OK so let's agree that not continuing to provide pandemic relief after the end of a pandemic isn't a cut.

Regarding the remainder, are you saying that it is it not least level with pre-pandemic funding?

Yes, it is not.

They are well below where they should be.

In 2010, UConn received 235.5m from the state.

The proposal for 2025 was 219.6m from the state.

UConn had requested 300m.

If the state subsidy had kept increasing at the rate of inflation from 2010, it would have been at 325m.

This is why the school is reporting a 70m deficit from what they had planned. I'm assuming 10m of that shortfall was made up for in other ways (i.e. 300m - 220m from the state = 80m deficit, and the school announced plans to cut departments to make up a 70m shortfall).

I did not know that the state legislature approved a bill for a huge increase in funding last month. I didn't see that reported here. Just found it when I did a search.

Opinion: UConn budget cuts would hinder school, and CT, success

It is impossible for UConn to be a world-renowned university if it is forced to bear devastating budget reductions.

ctmirror.org

 

[CL82]

I think we're losing the plot of the conversation here.

I was asked how much of a loss is reasonable. I only mentioned the Ivies because I knew what they lose.

You could cite the losses at any number of colleges of all stripes, endowments or not, and argue whether they are sustainable. The point is that the will to cut massive losses DOES NOT mean someone is advocating for the elimination of all losses.

I think we did lose the plot of the conversation.

After a poster suggested that we should cut football to "achieve solvency" I pointed out that men's in women's basketball lose money as well. You then posted to say there is a difference between a sport losing a little money and a lot of money and I asked Where is the point of between acceptable and unacceptable losses in your view.

Your reply was "$10-$15m is what I imagine Ivy Leagues lose on sports. So, that's what you should be shooting for." And I asked why should the Ivy League be the standard for us given that there are dramatic institutions between the endowment and sources of fund things for each institution.

So yeah we did get off-topic because the ivy league doesn't seem particularly relevant and you moved from a per sport analysis, I think, two an athletic department as a whole figure.

Again, if the notion is we can only support things that make a profit, then universities shouldn't offer athletics at all. Similarly states shouldn't subsidize universities at all because they're not making a profit on their own. That doesn't make sense, does it? That's usually a good indication of a red herring argument.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are plenty of ways for schools to cut costs, they just don’t have the political will to do it, yet. Schools have not changed their business models in decades. It is time. I would start merging schools across state lines, because there could be massive administrative savings from doing so.

 

[freescooter]

MBB is helping put UConn in the red too. They lost 4 million in FY2023

Drop all sports and the Athletic Dept deficit disappears. It doesn’t if we go D3, though.

 

[UConnJim]

It's both. The state is both cutting funding and there is no more Covid relief.

If I remember correctly, state funding is up, but the COVID funding is going away. The COVID funding was not supposed to be used to increase spending on new positions, but to maintain spending or for one time things. Many town school districts took their COVID funding and increased spending and now they are "cutting" positions that were funded with the one time COVID boost. It is incredible when people were told the COVID spending was one time, but they increased permanent spending without thinking it through.

 

[superjohn]

Do you have a link to those figures?

The total net loss for the athletic department was well in excess of the $13 million you tribute to Football. I know for the 2022 budget the total deficit was approximately $53 million.

$13.8 million of which was money to Ollie. The deficit was $35 million this past year.

 

[CL82]

This is why the school is reporting a 70m deficit from what they had planned.

I mean, I guess you can have a deficit from your budgetary goals, but that's traditionally not how that term is used. Traditionally a deficit is an operational shortfall.

In 2010, UConn received 235.5m from the state.

The proposal for 2025 was 219.6m from the state

I have to wonder why the author of the opinion piece randomly chose to compare 2010 to 2025. Was the 2010 block grant increase to cover specific needs? I don't know how useful those two data points are without seeing what the funding is every year and making comparisons. To data points randomly 15 years apart just seems to ripe for manipulation.

 

[CL82]

$13.8 million of which was money to Ollie. The deficit was $35 million this past year.

Yep, and I feel like it was in the mid-40s prior to the Ollie payoff. So an improvement is definitely happening, whether or not it is enough, is a different question.

 

[upstater]

I think we did lose the plot of the conversation.

After a poster suggested that we should cut football to "achieve solvency" I pointed out that men's in women's basketball lose money as well. You then posted to say there is a difference between a sport losing a little money and a lot of money and I asked Where is the point of between acceptable and unacceptable losses in your view.

Your reply was "$10-$15m is what I imagine Ivy Leagues lose on sports. So, that's what you should be shooting for." And I asked why should the Ivy League be the standard for us given that there are dramatic institutions between the endowment and sources of fund things for each institution.

So yeah we did get off-topic because the ivy league doesn't seem particularly relevant and you moved from a per sport analysis, I think, two an athletic department as a whole figure.

Again, if the notion is we can only support things that make a profit, then universities shouldn't offer athletics at all. Similarly states shouldn't subsidize universities at all because they're not making a profit on their own. That doesn't make sense, does it? That's usually a good indication of a red herring argument.

I'm not making that last argument.

I think some losses are acceptable.

I just gave a number of $10-15m.

There are schools like West Virginia that are decimating themselves academically while maintaining a huge athletics deficit.

This is the position you don't want. But given UConn's financial troubles prior to the legislature's increase, this was territory that UConn was entering.

Something has to give.

Uconn is very near the point of being unable to fulfill its whole reason for being. It's at 26% out of state residents at this point. As it moves into that 30%+ space with ever increasing tuition, it really begins to act as more of a private university with state residents unable to access it.

 

[upstater]

I mean, I guess you can have a deficit from your budgetary goals, but that's traditionally not how that term is used. Traditionally a deficit is an operational shortfall.



I have to wonder why the author of the opinion piece randomly chose to compare 2010 to 2025. Was the 2010 block grant increase to cover specific needs? I don't know how useful those two data points are without seeing what the funding is every year and making comparisons. To data points randomly 15 years apart just seems to ripe for manipulation.

??

That's not a budgetary goal.

It's a budgetary need.

This is why they were cutting every department by 15-20%.

The block grant was at $240.6m in 2016.

It dipped to $200m in 2018 and it flattened ever since then.

During and after the pandemic, it stayed flat but they added federal funds which took the overall funding gov't subsidy closer to $300m in the last several years.

However, at the same time, the university experienced severe financial distress with a huge fall in revenues.

 

[superjohn]

I'm not making that last argument.

I think some losses are acceptable.

I just gave a number of $10-15m.

There are schools like West Virginia that are decimating themselves academically while maintaining a huge athletics deficit.

This is the position you don't want. But given UConn's financial troubles prior to the legislature's increase, this was territory that UConn was entering.

Something has to give.

Uconn is very near the point of being unable to fulfill its whole reason for being. It's at 26% out of state residents at this point. As it moves into that 30%+ space with ever increasing tuition, it really begins to act as more of a private university with state residents unable to access it.

50% of University of Michigan students are out of state, 51% of University of Wisconsin students are out of state, 46% of University of Iowa students are out of state.

 

[upstater]

If I remember correctly, state funding is up, but the COVID funding is going away. The COVID funding was not supposed to be used to increase spending on new positions, but to maintain spending or for one time things. Many town school districts took their COVID funding and increased spending and now they are "cutting" positions that were funded with the one time COVID boost. It is incredible when people were told the COVID spending was one time, but they increased permanent spending without thinking it through.

I give the actual numbers of the state subsidy without federal subsidy in some of the posts here.

In 2016, UConn was at $240.6m in state subsidy. In 2018, it dropped to $200m.

This is pre-pandemic. If we're saying that the money shouldn't have been spent to fund UConn at a level similar to 2010 or 2016, you're also saying that the cuts to funding at UConn should be made more or less permanent.

 

[upstater]

50% of University of Michigan students are out of state, 51% of University of Wisconsin students are out of state, 46% of University of Iowa students are out of state.

And always a huge problem with B1G institutions. Penn State gets less than 5% of its funding from the state.

This is why PSU refused to provide transparent documents of funding to state legislatures. It operates as a private university.

 

[Hamms30]

I'm not making that last argument.

I think some losses are acceptable.

I just gave a number of $10-15m.

There are schools like West Virginia that are decimating themselves academically while maintaining a huge athletics deficit.

This is the position you don't want. But given UConn's financial troubles prior to the legislature's increase, this was territory that UConn was entering.

If UConn somehow lands in a power conference though and say we get 37M a year from the media and now that 35M deficit is now a 2M surplus. Wouldn't the state just say, Hey that's 37M a year less we need to fund to UConn and then we wind up with the same 35M deficit?

edit: and on an afterthought, I guess you'd have to find a way to quantify the loss of revenue by playing in Hartford for our commitments and what the revenue uptick downtown Hartford gets as a result of the requirements?

 

[upstater]

If UConn somehow lands in a power conference though and say we get 37M a year from the media and now that 35M deficit is now a 2M surplus. Wouldn't the state just say, Hey that's 37M a year less we need to fund to UConn and then we wind up with the same 35M deficit?

edit: and on an afterthought, I guess you'd have to find a way to quantify the loss of revenue by playing in Hartford for our commitments and what the revenue uptick downtown Hartford gets as a result of the requirements?

All I'm saying is that you don't want to slash academics and preserve athletics, and at the same time -- as a public institution -- you need to make your school accessible to the general public.

Someone mentioned the B1G schools but you need to account for the fact that those schools are massive and that there are multiple other options for a world-class university education.

UConn is not only smaller than the B1G schools, but it's the only school in the state that is a public world class university.

 

[superjohn]

And always a huge problem with B1G institutions. Penn State gets less than 5% of its funding from the state.

This is why PSU refused to provide transparent documents of funding to state legislatures. It operates as a private university.

University of Alabama 63% out of state, Ole Miss 57% out of state, University of Arkansas 50% out of state.

 

[ScottVib]

Yes, you stated that correctly. Basketball generated $10.6M in 2023 revenue while football lost $13M. This is the trend I was trying to point out. Our football program does not sustain itself and adds to the deficit year after year. It’s not a sound strategy.

These aren’t apples to apples here, as it’s comparing revenue to profit.. all UConn sports programs lose money:

Revenue / Expenses
Football: $6.01M / $20.07M (-$14.06M)
Men’s BB: $10.63M / $13.89M (-$3.26M)
Women’s BB: $4.43M / $10.47M (-$6.04M)
Others: $4.20M / $22.73M (-$18.53M)

Source: Sportico

 

[CL82]

I give the actual numbers of the state subsidy without federal subsidy in some of the posts here.

In 2016, UConn was at $240.6m in state subsidy. In 2018, it dropped to $200m.

This is pre-pandemic. If we're saying that the money shouldn't have been spent to fund UConn at a level similar to 2010 or 2016, you're also saying that the cuts to funding at UConn should be made more or less permanent.

View attachment 101747

Yes it's a 40 million cut since the high watermark which in of itself was a $45 million increase to the number that was being funded just three years before. I suppose I could point out that fiscal year 2020 was $5 million higher than fiscal year 2013.

Look I don't pretend to know what the "right number" is for the subsidy the state provides for the university, but I'm always wary of picking whatever the highest number is, without additional reasoning as to why those high points were perceived as being necessary, and saying look there's been a $40 million drop since the highest state funding amount.

 

[kobe]

Kobe,

Where you been man? How about a FB wager, straight up, who has the most wins this fall, Huskies or Pussycats?

wish the best for the huskies this upcoming season.

i enjoy watching fcs football occasionally, it’s a more nostalgic feel of 18-22 year olds that i know are playing football for the right reasons. it’s a stark difference from the power conference football i watch cincinnati play.

hope ill be able to catch a game! just need to reactive my facebook account!!

 

[BigTenFan]

I'm not making that last argument.

I think some losses are acceptable.

I just gave a number of $10-15m.

There are schools like West Virginia that are decimating themselves academically while maintaining a huge athletics deficit.

This is the position you don't want. But given UConn's financial troubles prior to the legislature's increase, this was territory that UConn was entering.

Something has to give.

Uconn is very near the point of being unable to fulfill its whole reason for being. It's at 26% out of state residents at this point. As it moves into that 30%+ space with ever increasing tuition, it really begins to act as more of a private university with state residents unable to access it.

Also- most Public Universities have a sizeable international student class. UConn is approx 10% which is separate number from out of state students.