Big East soon to become Mid Major

[Man-Man]

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/20...tech-approved-by-big-ten-conference-expansion

Looks like Georgia Tech will soon be leaving the ACC, triggering ACC moving to grab Cincinnati or UConn and Big East targeting JMU or Delaware. Didn't get all of that from the link piecing together other links and word of mouth.

 

[Rob Signor]

If we Cincinnati gets to the ACC before us then that is very discouraging for future realignment and out status in the college landscape.

 

[UConnChapette]

I don't get that move if true. The Big 10 likes flagship state universities. While Tech is a state university, it is not the flagship university for Georgia. That is UGA. It is also pretty far outside their footprint. Academically, without a doubt it is a solid fit. I haven't heard anything about it from my son. But he is a typical Georgia Tech student at this point in the semester - buried under projects and studying for finals. They are a nerd school, athletics comes second.

 

[UConnChapette]

If we Cincinnati gets to the ACC before us then that is very discouraging for future realignment and out status in the college landscape.

At this point, I don't really want to be in the ACC. But it might be better than being in the rapidly disintegrating Big East (queue jplotinus)

 

[HuskyFan1125]

So I'm guessing the Big10 would like to be at 16 teams.

Who would be the 16th?

At this point I would rather be a part of the Big 10 than ACC.

 

[Vowelguy]

Still just one of many rumors floating around; none of which has been picked up by the media yet.

 

[meyers7]

So I'm guessing the Big10 would like to be at 16 teams.

Who would be the 16th?

At this point I would rather be a part of the Big 10 than ACC.

Who wouldn't?

 

[Shenandoah]

Seems to me that the ACC really is the Big East, plus the Carolinas, renamed, especially if UConn ends up there

 

[jplotinus]

At this point, I don't really want to be in the ACC. But it might be better than being in the rapidly disintegrating Big East (queue jplotinus)

Well, on queue, as it were. It is unseemly to go to Greensboro NC (ACC HQ) begging admission into the ACC. Something that is hard to communicate is that the best way for UCONN to get into some super conference or another is to stand firm, proudly rebuild the Big East by becoming the "beast of the East" and by having conferences come to us begging.

Query: Are posters really saying that UCONN cannot be the leader of a rebuilt Big East?

If so, posters may be overlooking the best avenue for eventual membership where UCONN really wants to be.

I don't think the begging approach sends the right message.

Just say-n :-/

 

[tennparker3]

Georgia Tech is a member of the AAU, a group a leading research universities in the US and some other countries. Every member in the Big 10 is an AAU member (including MD and RU) except Nebraska, which was an AAU member until they were kicked to the curb a year after joining (it has been said that if Big 10 officials had known NU's departure was going to happen they wouldn't have been approved to join the conference). UConn will not be offered if they are not an AAU member however, UConn is a considerably stronger candidate for AAU membership compared to even some current members.

 

[UConn990411]

Well, on queue, as it were. It is unseemly to go to Greensboro NC (ACC HQ) begging admission into the ACC. Something that is hard to communicate is that the best way for UCONN to get into some super conference or another is to stand firm, proudly rebuild the Big East by becoming the "beast of the East" and by having conferences come to us begging.

Query: Are posters really saying that UCONN cannot be the leader of a rebuilt Big East?

If so, posters may be overlooking the best avenue for eventual membership where UCONN really wants to be.

I don't think the begging approach sends the right message.

Just say-n :-/

Mike Aresco, is that you?

You really need to go away now.

 

[Icebear]

I don't get that move if true. The Big 10 likes flagship state universities. While Tech is a state university, it is not the flagship university for Georgia. That is UGA. It is also pretty far outside their footprint. Academically, without a doubt it is a solid fit. I haven't heard anything about it from my son. But he is a typical Georgia Tech student at this point in the semester - buried under projects and studying for finals. They are a nerd school, athletics comes second.

It is a flag ship engineering school, however.

 

[HuskyNan]

Well, on queue, as it were. It is unseemly to go to Greensboro NC (ACC HQ) begging admission into the ACC. Something that is hard to communicate is that the best way for UCONN to get into some super conference or another is to stand firm, proudly rebuild the Big East by becoming the "beast of the East" and by having conferences come to us begging.

Query: Are posters really saying that UCONN cannot be the leader of a rebuilt Big East?

If so, posters may be overlooking the best avenue for eventual membership where UCONN really wants to be.

I don't think the begging approach sends the right message.

Just say-n :-/

Man, I just had a flash of deja vu.

'Scuse me for shouting - THIS IS NOT ABOUT BASKETBALL, IT"S ABOUT FOOTBALL AND TV $$$$$$. No matter how strong UConn is in the Big East, it WILL NOT attract TV contracts or continued donations from alumni because it will be in a crappy league. Please, jplotinus, give me one example of how UConn can rebuild the Big East from a league that will play games that no one will want to see. Tulane vs Central Florida? East Carolina vs San Diego State? And UConn is bad in football, it will not attract viewers. Even when UConn when to the BCS bowl, no one watched them.

What part of "crappy league" don't you get? Look at the list of schools below - they stink! I like someone's analogy of a couple days ago - UConn will become Old Dominion, a once powerful program that faded into oblivion.

The Future Big East?
Boise State (Idaho)
Central Florida
Houston (Texas)
Memphis (Tennessee)
San Diego State (California)
Southern Methodist (Texas)
Tulane (Louisiana)
James Madison/Delaware
East Carolina
South Florida

And soon to be dumped:
Providence
DePaul
Villanova
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Marquette

 

[jplotinus]

Man, I just had a flash of deja vu.

'Scuse me for shouting - THIS IS NOT ABOUT BASKETBALL, IT"S ABOUT FOOTBALL AND TV $$$$$$. No matter how strong UConn is in the Big East, it WILL NOT attract TV contracts or continued donations from alumni because it will be in a crappy league. Please, jplotinus, give me one example of how UConn can rebuild the Big East from a league that will play games that no one will want to see. Tulane vs Central Florida? East Carolina vs San Diego State? And UConn is bad in football, it will not attract viewers. Even when UConn when to the BCS bowl, no one watched them.

What part of "crappy league" don't you get? Look at the list of schools below - they stink! I like someone's analogy of a couple days ago - UConn will become Old Dominion, a once powerful program that faded into oblivion.

The Future Big East?
Boise State (Idaho)
Central Florida
Houston (Texas)
Memphis (Tennessee)
San Diego State (California)
Southern Methodist (Texas)
Tulane (Louisiana)
James Madison/Delaware
East Carolina
South Florida

And soon to be dumped:
Providence
DePaul
Villanova
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Marquette

Greetings HuskyNan

We disagree on what is or isn't a crappy league. Furthermore, you have a great deal more certitude in your main assumption than I am willing to impart to that assumption. The one I refer to here is your assumption about what people will or will not watch on teevee.

Prior to the airing of games in the rebuilt Big East, it is up to the conference, hopefully led by UCONN, to market, promote, extoll the virtues of the new and exciting rivalries that are to be had in the Big East. The theme here is that the Bug East can be billed, trumpeted and ballyhooed as the first coast-to-coast conference.

Furthermore, shouldn't we adopt a 'tude that wheresoever UCONN is there also is a major conference?

Who knows what people will watch on teevee? They keep up with the Kardasians and they watch Jersey Shore and wrestling, and kick boxing. Who knew?

I say this to also say that there is no reason to buy into stigmatizing the new members of the Big East.

Your model here might be the original AFL. The NFL bad mouthed their brand of football, called it inferior and so on. But, while the level of competition was a bit lower for awhile, the AFL produced exciting games, people started to take notice and before you knew it there was parity. And, once the AFL proved its own worth, the NFL came to them.

Respectfully 'Nan, so it can be here.

Thanks for listing the new members of the Big East, that info is important. But it is better to use that list to imagine new rivalries and new possibilities rather than to use it to put down the new league.

Blessings

 

[HuskyNan]

We disagree on what is or isn't a crappy league. Furthermore, you have a great deal more certitude in your main assumption than I am willing to impart to that assumption. The one I refer to here is your assumption about what people will or will not watch on teevee.

Prior to the airing of games in the rebuilt Big East, it is up to the conference, hopefully led by UCONN, to market, promote, extoll the virtues of the new and exciting rivalries that are to be had in the Big East. The theme here is that the Bug East can be billed, trumpeted and ballyhooed as the first coast-to-coast conference.

Furthermore, shouldn't we adopt a 'tude that wheresoever UCONN is there also is a major conference?

Who knows what people will watch on teevee? They keep up with the Kardasians and they watch Jersey Shore and wrestling, and kick boxing. Who knew?

I say this to also say that there is no reason to buy into stigmatizing the new members of the Big East.

Your model here might be the original AFL. The NFL bad mouthed their brand of football, called it inferior and so on. But, while the level of competition was a bit lower for awhile, the AFL produced exciting games, people started to take notice and before you knew it there was parity. And, once the AFL proved its own worth, the NFL came to them.

Respectfully 'Nan, so it can be here.

Thanks for listing the new members of the Big East, that info is important. But it is better to use that list to imagine new rivalries and new possibilities rather than to use it to put down the new league.

jplotinus, I'll try one more time to convince you before I'll give up.

What the general public wants is irrelevant. Whatever attitude we adopt is irrelevant (and I have no idea how UConn fans' attitudes would affect anything) UConn or the Big East can publicize all they want but it's not the general public that decides what to put on TV, it's ESPN. ESPN holds all of the cards - every last one - and it has been strongly suggested that ESPN is the one that started the breakup of the Big East in the first place. It has been spending millions of dollars on a bad Big East football league and would prefer so called superconferences rather than a bunch of fair to middling football leagues to keep its costs down and put it in a stronger bargaining position. You may not like it, but ESPN is calling all the shots here.

There are no natural rivals for UConn in the reconstituted Big East. Delaware is the closest potential member, a 5-6 FCS (Division I-AA) team. As bad as UConn is in football, they would probably roll over Delaware. Why would ESPN show that when they can show Florida State-Lousiville or Ohio State-Michigan? It's not that the Kardashian watchers aren't out there, Lord help us, it's that they have a lot of choices and the Big East teams will be the worst of the lot. ESPN knows this so they won't televise them. When the Big East loses that $10 million/year paycheck from ESPN, it will go down the tubes.

If you don't get all of this, then I give up.

 

[UConnChapette]

jplotinus, you never answered my question. Are you a fan of UConn football? Do you go to the games? Watch them on TV? Or is your interest in UConn limited to basketball?

I think you are completely in the dark about how the college athletic landscape has changed and is continuing to change and what that means to a program like UConn. I will agree with one point you make. UConn WILL dominate what the conference is evolving into, in most if not all sports. But that is as far is I will go. In the NATIONAL athletic landscape UConn will become an afterthought, a footnote in history.

Not in a glamour league? No lucrative football tv contract, less money in the coffers to develop programs. No exciting matchups? Total domination in all sports? That leads to boredom and season ticket sales will decline, further reducing the amount of money available to build a program (or rebuild as may end up being the case with UConn). If the rest of the conference is content to just be in a league where they can play their games and play for conference championships with little interested in becoming national powers - or do not have the financial strength to do so - it will be difficult to attract new fans and interest in the teams within the conference by other conferences will further decline, no matter how dominant that program is against it's cupcake conference mates.

While I get frustrated with the football teams struggles, I go to the games and root for the team because I remember the thrill the first time we beat Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Syracuse - teams with historical football success on a national scale. There will be no such thrill against ANY of the teams in the evolving Big East.

Take a look at what is becoming the ACC. Teams rumored to be targets of other conferences with asterisks*, former Big East conference members in bold:

FSU*
Clemson*
UNC*
UVA*
Georgia Tech*
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Syracuse
Pitt
Notre Dame (except football, but they weren't all-in with the BE either)
Louisville
Boston College
Virginia Tech*
Miami

If two or more of those teams leave, as the rumor mill has it, the ACC will most likely look at the remaining Big East members:

UConn
Cincinnati
South Florida

Notice anything? It will be like moving BACK into the old Big East! Perhaps not a major upgrade, but at least maintaining the status quo.

UConn has worked hard to build its athletic programs to the point it is now. Remaining in the remnants of the BE will set them back at least a decade, perhaps more. And the money in this state is drying up. We have massive state debt, and the Governor just slashed UConn's budget by $10M. Families are struggling. CT is a small state, and there are only so many bodies available to become fans who will pay for tickets to games. There isn't a lot of discretionary money to make donations to help rebuild the program, and lack of high profile teams to play against will decrease interest. Maintaining at least the status quo is UConn's ticket to survival as a national athletic program.

If you don't get this now I doubt you ever will.

 

[jplotinus]

jplotinus, I'll try one more time to convince you before I'll give up.

What the general public wants is irrelevant. Whatever attitude we adopt is irrelevant (and I have no idea how UConn fans' attitudes would affect anything) UConn or the Big East can publicize all they want but it's not the general public that decides what to put on TV, it's ESPN. ESPN holds all of the cards - every last one - and it has been strongly suggested that ESPN is the one that started the breakup of the Big East in the first place. It has been spending millions of dollars on a bad Big East football league and would prefer so called superconferences rather than a bunch of fair to middling football leagues to keep its costs down and put it in a stronger bargaining position. You may not like it, but ESPN is calling all the shots here.

There are no natural rivals for UConn in the reconstituted Big East. Delaware is the closest potential member, a 5-6 FBS (Division I-AA) team. As bad as UConn is in football, they would probably roll over Delaware. Why would ESPN show that when they can show Florida State-Lousiville or Ohio State-Michigan? It's not that the Kardashian watchers aren't out there, Lord help us, it's that they have a lot of choices and the Big East teams will be the worst of the lot. ESPN knows this so they won't televise them. When the Big East loses that $10 million/year paycheck from ESPN, it will go down the tubes.

If you don't get all of this, then I give up.

Well, I'm sorry you are giving up on me 'Nan. I'm embarrassed to be in your dog house. I assume that your contacts with ESPN are superior to mine because I don't have any at all. If you say ESPN will not air Big East games, then I guess ESPN won't air them.

That is their choice.

Perhaps, then, the Big East conference will have to be relegated to getting their respective PBS affiliates to step up and be to football what CPTV was to WCBB.

I've also seen it mentioned somewhere that Fox was considering a sports channel.

If ESPN is bound and determined to not air Big East football match ups then someone else likely will do so.

In any event, the ACC does not want UCONN. That does not mean UCONN cannot lead the Big East if it wants to do so. Come to think of it, UCONN may have no other choice. I, for one, and apparently, the only one, think they can do this and get on teevee one way or another. I have given two possibilities without asking you why you are so certain about what ESPN will or will not air in the future. As for me, I don't know what ESPN will air next week, let alone 2014.

 

[HuskyNan]

Perhaps, then, the Big East conference will have to be relegated to getting their respective PBS affiliates to step up and be to football what CPTV was to WCBB.

I've also seen it mentioned somewhere that Fox was considering a sports channel.

If ESPN is bound and determined to not air Big East football match ups then someone else likely will do so.

In any event, the ACC does not want UCONN. That does not mean UCONN cannot lead the Big East if it wants to do so. Come to think of it, UCONN may have no other choice. I, for one, and apparently, the only one, think they can do this and get on teevee one way or another. I have given two possibilities without asking you why you are so certain about what ESPN will or will not air in the future. As for me, I don't know what ESPN will air next week, let alone 2014.

CPTV and other PBS stations can't pay the same amount of money that ESPN can. It simply does not have it. The PBS channels are also small market - our own ThisJustIn couldn't get CPTV in New York City and NYC is the Holy Grail of TV markets. Maybe CPTV would pay $1 million a year to show UConn games but that would barely cover Geno's salary - who is going to pay Pasqualoni, Ollie, Stevens, Reid and Tsantiris?

How many times is UConn football on ESPN or ESPN2 now, while it's still in the Big East? Answer, twice. That's not a big paycheck AND the games were against Syracuse, a rival, and Pitt which was expected to be ranked when the game was scheduled. No big TV outlet scheduled UConn vs Buffalo or Western Michigan and those are the types of games that will happen in the new Big East. UConn is NOT a good football team. That is why no one will pick up their games on TV unless they're playing a good opponent and there will be no good opponents.

It's all about football, TV and money. UConn has zero leverage.

 

[FairView]

jplotinus, I'll try one more time to convince you before I'll give up.

What the general public wants is irrelevant. Whatever attitude we adopt is irrelevant (and I have no idea how UConn fans' attitudes would affect anything) UConn or the Big East can publicize all they want but it's not the general public that decides what to put on TV, it's ESPN. ESPN holds all of the cards - every last one - and it has been strongly suggested that ESPN is the one that started the breakup of the Big East in the first place. It has been spending millions of dollars on a bad Big East football league and would prefer so called superconferences rather than a bunch of fair to middling football leagues to keep its costs down and put it in a stronger bargaining position. You may not like it, but ESPN is calling all the shots here.

There are no natural rivals for UConn in the reconstituted Big East. Delaware is the closest potential member, a 5-6 FBS (Division I-AA) team. As bad as UConn is in football, they would probably roll over Delaware. Why would ESPN show that when they can show Florida State-Lousiville or Ohio State-Michigan? It's not that the Kardashian watchers aren't out there, Lord help us, it's that they have a lot of choices and the Big East teams will be the worst of the lot. ESPN knows this so they won't televise them. When the Big East loses that $10 million/year paycheck from ESPN, it will go down the tubes.

If you don't get all of this, then I give up.

Nan, If I can make one tweak to your argument -- it is ALL about what the general public wants. If there were great interest in the Big East football teams and the new "rivalries," ESPN would love the new Big East and pay piles of money to broadcast its games. That ain't going to happen because of your aptly characterized "crappy" factor. The general public doesn't care about the Big East. And there is plenty of competition already out there -other football teams and football rivalries - that the public does care about. People can talk about marketing to build the league, but that can't overcome the fact that you have a bad product and too much established competition. In fact, there is an old advertising adage, the best way to doom a bad product is with good advertising. Because then people buy the product, realize it sucks, never buy it again, and tell their friends about how much is sucks. Marketing polish can't de-stink a turd. TV networks are businesses that are concerned with nothing other than making money and because the public will never want what we're selling here, there is no money to be made. It's time to get out of Dodge.

I know much of my argument is a restatement of what you already said, but I think the "general public" part was an important tweak. Plus, it's not often that I would get the chance to use the word "turd" in here.

 

[jplotinus]

Let me say first of all I get that almost everyone here pines for ACC membership. I don't. I don't agree that fans or teevee networks are more interested in ACC teams than they would be in Big East as reconstituted, match-ups.

Here I need to reiterate my limitation. I do not know what ESPN will or will not air or contract with. Others apparently are involved in the negotiations and know outcomes that I don't.

The new Big East is a far flung coast-to/coast conference. Most older conferences were formed prior to the age of jet travel, not to mention Internet connectivity. Football was regional. Now it isn't. UCONN has as much in common with San Diego State and Houston and Boise State as it does with Fessu, in my opinion.

I'm also willing to give the Big East ADs, and commissioner the benefit of having some marketing prowess and capability to market their new product.

Finally, the ACC still does not want UCONN. Thus, it is up to UCONN to make the best of the cards dealt to it and to po' little tiny CT.

I think the Big East can be the mouse that roars if given 1/2 a chance and a spunky (rather than fatalistic) attitude.

 

[jplotinus]

What's so bad about this lineup?

The Future Big East?
Boise State (Idaho)
Central Florida
Houston (Texas)
Memphis (Tennessee)
San Diego State (California)
Southern Methodist (Texas)
Tulane (Louisiana)
James Madison/Delaware
East Carolina
South Florida

Someone axed me whether I watch football. Answer, not that much any more. I think college football has deteriorated as a result of the conference realignments. I don't think the fighting to get bigger has added anything except confusion and disarray.

People here don't seem to agree with me that the new Big East is no more and no less arbitrary than the new Big 12 where WVA doesn't belong and where Missouri does (but is no longer there).

Here's what the Big East offered:

UCONN vs SDSU, intriguing
UCONN vs Boise State, cool
UCONN vs SMU, a one time power, until cheating
UCONN vs Houston, Heisman pedigree

All I am saying is give the Big East a chance (and also stop pining for the ACC, who does not want us).

 

[HuskyNan]

Nan, If I can make one tweak to your argument -- it is ALL about what the general public wants. If there were great interest in the Big East football teams and the new "rivalries," ESPN would love the new Big East and pay piles of money to broadcast its games.

You're right, of course, but ESPN drives the market in many cases.

 

[meyers7]

Let me say first of all I get that almost everyone here pines for ACC membership. I don't. I don't agree that fans or teevee networks are more interested in ACC teams than they would be in Big East as reconstituted, match-ups.

That would be your first mistake.

Here I need to reiterate my limitation. I do not know what ESPN will or will not air or contract with. Others apparently are involved in the negotiations and know outcomes that I don't.

No actually we are not. However some here seem to be able to see the obvious, others, not so much.

The new Big East is a far flung coast-to/coast conference. Most older conferences were formed prior to the age of jet travel, not to mention Internet connectivity. Football was regional. Now it isn't. UCONN has as much in common with San Diego State and Houston and Boise State as it does with Fessu, in my opinion.

Unfortunately you are probably correct. And that’s not a good thing.

I'm also willing to give the Big East ADs, and commissioner the benefit of having some marketing prowess and capability to market their new product.

You definitely give them too much credit.

I think the Big East can be the mouse that roars if given 1/2 a chance and a spunky (rather than fatalistic) attitude.

UCONN should aspire to be more than a mouse. ODU is a mouse, UMASS is a mouse, Marist is a roaring mouse, that’s what you want UCONN’s programs to become? Besides mice that roar get eaten.

 

[Icebear]

Here's what the Big East offered:

UCONN vs SDSU, intriguing
UCONN vs Boise State, cool
UCONN vs SMU, a one time power, until cheating
UCONN vs Houston, Heisman pedigree

All I am saying is give the Big East a chance (and also stop pining for the ACC, who does not want us).

There is not one game there most anyone would prefer to watch over whatever is on against it.

Face you just don't get it and no one agrees with you and isn't going to be pursued just because you say it should be different.

 

[UConnChapette]

Let me be clear. I am not "pining" for the ACC. I am pining for anything BUT what the Big East is becoming. ACC? Not my first preference, but yup. Big 10? First preference, but a long shot until UConn gets AAU status. Big 12? Yes indeedy. Pac 12? Highly improbable, but be thirlled if offered. SEC? My least preferred option, but that is about as impossible as it gets. Anything outside of those conferences is going to be blahsville. And in truth, the ACC may not carry any prestige when this is all said and done, but it would still be better than BE.

What I am pining for is to get out of this craptastic conference that the BE has evolved into. Don't care which one...so long as we have a chance to play with the teams that are regularly ranked in the top 25 and that gives UConn the best chance to maintain it's basketball dominance and resume its football development. That isn't going to happen without a move to another conference that has the big network tv deals. No offense to your excitement over SDSU, Boise State, SMU and Houston. But they don't do it for me. SDSU and Boise State wouldn't be annual games anyway.

I'm done trying to convince you.