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Big East=Recruitment Advantage?

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Did some research. UConn's all-time record against the PAC 12 is 34-9, suggesting somewhat of a challenge. If you take out their 11-7 record against Stanford they are 23-2 against the rest of the PAC12, and that isn't what I call challenging.
 

CocoHusky

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If Stanford plays to their ranking they will have 4 challenging games in the PAC12 this year. Here is the SOS for both UConn and Stanford for the last 10 years. These are the comparative schedule ratings for UConn and Stanford. UConn on the left and Stanford on the right. (Massey) Stanford is a great school and has a great coach and program but the "night in night out" comment is total BS

2 - 3
4 - 6
2 - 3
1 - 6
2 - 7
1 - 4
1 - 8
3 - 6
1 - 4
1 - 2


Jones is just parroting the sales pitch she bought from Tara. I hear the winning coach's sales pitch in every recruit's decision announcement. For UConn it's usually a variation of "I wanted a school that could develop me to be the best player I could be. There is no question as to the relative prestige of the PAC12 and the AAC but night in night out, year in year out, UConn played a more challenging schedule.
So far this year Stanford's schedule has included E Washington, San Francisco, Gonzaga, Buffalo, Cal Baptist, Syracuse, Miss St. Once you get past Oregon & Oregon St the rest of the PAC12 is impressive in name only. When was the last time a PAC12 team other than Stanford has given UConn a challenge? It will likely happen this year but the PAC12 only looks great in comparison to the rest of the west.
Now if Jones' goal is a conference championship then a plaque from the PAC12 will be more impressive, alongside a Stanford diploma, but a ring from the NCAA is something on a different scale.
I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself!
A comparison of Stanford's OOC schedule compared to UCONN's OOC is meaningless over the years because it has nothing to do with what Haley Jones said. What you should be looking at is UCONN CONFERENCE schedule vs. Stanford CONFERENCE schedule this season and for the next 3 seasons even when UCONN joins the BE.
If you come to any other conclusion besides Haley Jones had a point, you are being delusional because the Pac 12 has 4 of the top 10 teams in the country and AAC and BE have ONE. It's simple math really, not like quadratic equation math either.
 
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I doubt it will help much. It may hurt a little. But UCONN is UCONN, at least til Geno retires. No matter what conference we are in. They are not going to have too much trouble recruiting (except of course "bigs" :rolleyes:).

It may hurt a little in the south. There won't be annual trips to FL, TX, LA, TN. Just make it harder to pry players out of those areas.
If Uconn stays in the run for the gold most years then Recruitment shall be good regardless of which area of the country the conference is in. I'll admit that kids playing for Uconn want to show the home folks them playing on the biggest time program that is more than once in 4 years. It seems the recruitment feel off a bit after Stew went Pro but apparently that was a fluke because ---look at those arriving in the next few years--it's really bad for basketball.
 
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I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself!
A comparison of Stanford's OOC schedule compared to UCONN's OOC is meaningless over the years because it has nothing to do with Haley Jones said. What you should be looking at is UCONN CONFERENCE schedule vs. Stanford CONFERENCE schedule this season and for the next 3 seasons even when UCONN joins the BE.
If you come to any other conclusion besides Haley Jones had a point, you are being delusional because the Pac 12 has 4 of the top 10 teams in the country and AAC and BE have ONE. It's simple math really, not like quadratic equation math either.
If everything relied on the Conference schedules why doesn't Stanford have 12 NC's and 14 straight FF appearances. I know better than argue against you but even your above dissertation is missing some intangibles not related to conference.
We know Geno, historically , even back in the old BE days took on the best of the best that would have him. Some were foolish enough to try to select Uconn on a believed coming down year, silly coach.
So, ignoring the conferences because apparently they are not the significant factor. If not conference what is?
Will Haley Jones do for the TREE what Stewie/DT/Maya (pick one) did for the Dogs??
 

CocoHusky

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If everything relied on the Conference schedules why doesn't Stanford have 12 NC's and 14 straight FF appearances. I know better than argue against you but even your above dissertation is missing some intangibles not related to conference.
We know Geno, historically , even back in the old BE days took on the best of the best that would have him. Some were foolish enough to try to select Uconn on a believed coming down year, silly coach.
So, ignoring the conferences because apparently they are not the significant factor. If not conference what is?
Will Haley Jones do for the TREE what Stewie/DT/Maya (pick one) did for the Dogs??
Who said "everything" relied on conference schedule?
Extremely unlikely that Haley Jones could do for stanford what Stewie/DT/Maya did for UCONN.
Geno has "historically NEVER" ducked anyone. Geno is "ultra" competitive I assure you he would much rather be playing the teams in the Pac 12 than Playing the teams in the AAC or BE next year.
 
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CocoHusky

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Did some research. UConn's all-time record against the PAC 12 is 34-9, suggesting somewhat of a challenge. If you take out their 11-7 record against Stanford they are 23-2 against the rest of the PAC12, and that isn't what I call challenging.
Ok, so what does this have to do with Haley Jones and what she said?
 
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Who said "everything" relied on conference schedule?
It is not You selecting a single word you'd like to reply to is it? Who is posting under your name?
Change Everything to any word you'd choose or ignore it. The question remains. Why then doesn't Stanford have 12 nc's or 14 ff's if their conferences are so important. What are the intangibles, bad question but something makes the difference other than conferences!!
 

CocoHusky

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It is not You selecting a single word you'd like to reply to is it? Who is posting under your name?
Change Everything to any word you'd choose or ignore it. The question remains. Why then doesn't Stanford have 12 nc's or 14 ff's if their conferences are so important. What are the intangibles, bad question but something makes the difference other than conferences!!
The intangibles aren't. The very tangible thing is Geno.
 
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I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself!
A comparison of Stanford's OOC schedule compared to UCONN's OOC is meaningless over the years because it has nothing to do with what Haley Jones said. What you should be looking at is UCONN CONFERENCE schedule vs. Stanford CONFERENCE schedule this season and for the next 3 seasons even when UCONN joins the BE.
If you come to any other conclusion besides Haley Jones had a point, you are being delusional because the Pac 12 has 4 of the top 10 teams in the country and AAC and BE have ONE. It's simple math really, not like quadratic equation math either.

Four of the top 10 in December of 2019. Go back and look at the conference over a longer time period and you'll see that both Oregon schools sucked. UCLA has had a couple of decent teams but hardly what I would call challenging. The only team in the PAC12 to do anything consistently over the last 10 years that comes close to being described as a challenging program is the Trees. I doubt her goals are linited to the PAC12? I doubt that but it would certainly be what I would try and sell her on if I was the coach.

I stated very clearly that Stanford will have 4 challenging games IN CONFERENCE. They will no doubt play a couple more close ones but that will be due to their own performance rather than their opponents.

I also stated that there are no challenging conferences in wcbb for an elite level team. ZERO. NADA. Name one conference that would have challenged UConn consistently over the years. And by challenged I mean losing 2 game a year and playing another 6 that end up being close wins? That conference doesn't exist.

My point, which you seem to have missed, was that Jones like most elite recruits announcing their decisions are just parroting what they were told in the sales pitch.


For example: Q: Why did you buy the Ford? A: They have the best cars, the best warranty and give the best service.

Get it?
 

eebmg

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I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself!
A comparison of Stanford's OOC schedule compared to UCONN's OOC is meaningless over the years because it has nothing to do with what Haley Jones said. What you should be looking at is UCONN CONFERENCE schedule vs. Stanford CONFERENCE schedule this season and for the next 3 seasons even when UCONN joins the BE.
If you come to any other conclusion besides Haley Jones had a point, you are being delusional because the Pac 12 has 4 of the top 10 teams in the country and AAC and BE have ONE. It's simple math really, not like quadratic equation math either.

ah but the quadratic equation math explains alot. 2 valid solutions. Some times positive, sometimes negative and sometimes complex. ;)
 

CocoHusky

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Four of the top 10 in December of 2019.
For sure!
Go back and look at the conference over a longer time period and you'll see that both Oregon schools sucked.
Why would I do that if we are talking about 2019?
I stated very clearly that Stanford will have 4 challenging games IN CONFERENCE.
For sure!
I also stated that there are no challenging conferences in wcbb for an elite level team. ZERO. NADA.
Well Stanford seems to be an elite level team being ranked #1. If I go by your previous statement: "Stanford will have 4 challenging games IN CONFERENCE."
My point, which you seem to have missed, was that Jones like most elite recruits announcing their decisions are just parroting what they were told in the sales pitch.
I actually agree with you. Haley was probably parroting what she was likely told. But then again she might have just have read the rankings and come to those same conclusion. Conclusions which you seem determined to ignore:
In 2019 the Pac 12 is a significantly more challenging conference than AAC.
In 2020 the Pac 12 is likely to be a more challenging conference than BE.
 
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For sure!

Why would I do that if we are talking about 2019?



Well Stanford seems to be an elite level team being ranked #1. If I go by your previous statement: "Stanford will have 4 challenging games IN CONFERENCE."

I actually agree with you. Haley was probably parroting what she was likely told. But then again she might have just have read the rankings and come to those same conclusion. Conclusions which you seem determined to ignore:
In 2019 the Pac 12 is a significantly more challenging conference than AAC.
In 2020 the Pac 12 is likely to be a more challenging conference than BE.

In the first place we aren't talking about 2019. Jones appears in the 2021 season and plans on being at Stanford for 4 years so the timeline is a lot longer.

Second, the play of Stanford is irrelevant if we are talking about their challenging conference schedule, in fact the better they are the less challenging will be their schedule.

Third, as I said and you seem to agree is that there are (at this time) 2 schools in the PAC12 that will offer Stanford a challenge in 4 games this year and one of those teams will no longer have most of their stars next season, when Jones arrives. Stanford is on an upswing while Oregon will most certainly go through Ionescu withdrawals. Graves is a great coach and he has a great class coming in but they won't be anything like this year's team until at least the 23 season. If Jones really was looking for a challenging conference she would have kept an ACC team as her alternative to Stanford, but it was UConn, undoubtedly in the weakest and least challenging conference among the elite teams she was considering. The fact that they were considered up till the end only supports my premise that she was parroting, which was really my only reason for my initial post.

And third the challenge of the PAC12 to a No 1 team like Stanford has absolutely nothing to do with UConn and the Big East unless you want to examine UConn's record as a perennial top team against the PAC12. As an example of what challenge the PAC12 minus Stanford has offered UConn over the last 20 years. UConn's all-time record vs the teams that are going to challenge Stanford? 34-9. Seven of the losses were to Stanford (Three were prior to 1995). But against the rest of the PAC12 UConn is 23-2. The losses?

Cal The loss came in 1991
ASU The loss came in 2004 - that's one for the "challenge" side

Now I'll admit that some of the wins were likely close, but 2 losses in 35 years is hardly a challenge. Against that you say they have 4 of the top 10 in December of the year before Jones will play for Stanford.

Now let me be clear. Jones made what was for her the best choice. I'd guess that the prestige of the university was a factor and the coach was another. Both are excellent reasons. Again, my "guess" is that the conference schedule was a convenient way to show Stanford ahead of UConn in an obvious way and was a planned response to the "why not UConn" question. In no way is she different from many UConn recruits who parrot back that "UConn will challenge me to be the best I can be". Sounds like an Army recruiting phrase.

Stanford has a number of great young players and I hope Tara has regained the courage to schedule UConn after "begging off"* a few years ago. (kind of like Mulkey does) UConn likes a challenging schedule and winning their conference became a "near-certainty"** decades ago. UConn is playing Graves this year and next, and I hope they can schedule OSU, the (Rodney Dangerfield of wcbb). Geno likes to keep it to 2 games/conference) but at least in the near future it would be nice to play all three.


* - as reported in the media
** - a nod to the teams that won it back in the day.

I think I've beaten this topic enough. As I stated my intent was not to pick on Jones nor the PAC12 but a response to "announcement statements" in general.
 
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CocoHusky

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In the first place we aren't talking about 2019. Jones appears in the 2021 season and plans on being at Stanford for 4 years so the timeline is a lot longer.
What in hell are you talking about?
 
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What in hell are you talking about?
Lots of salient points offered above by Alydar. However, is Alydar not aware that Haley Jones is a frosh at Stanford now (2019, not 2021)? Also, Alydar refers to OSU as the "Rodney Dangerfield" of women's collegiate basketball. If he was referring to Oregon State (and it appears that he was above), then there isn't a whole lot of additional respect that you could give Oregon State at this time in addition to a #4 national ranking in the polls. Most Oregon State fans are appreciative of the respect that a lot of basketball analysts have bestowed upon the program in recent years.
 
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What my hopes are is Marquette, Villanova, Creighton all up their efforts to pull in top talent (to add toDePaul) and make their school a contender for regular top 25 votes and NCAA Tournament bid. Add in decent programs like Seton Hall, St.Johns and Butler and that will be a vast improvement over the AAC. By saying these schools play UConn twice a year, maybe better recruits will go there and provide stiffer competition for UConn. Having 4/5 schools vying for a bid is a huge upside for us as that never materialized in the American.
 
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Lots of salient points offered above by Alydar. However, is Alydar not aware that Haley Jones is a frosh at Stanford now (2019, not 2021)? Also, Alydar refers to OSU as the "Rodney Dangerfield" of women's collegiate basketball. If he was referring to Oregon State (and it appears that he was above), then there isn't a whole lot of additional respect that you could give Oregon State at this time in addition to a #4 national ranking in the polls. Most Oregon State fans are appreciative of the respect that a lot of basketball analysts have bestowed upon the program in recent years.

A brain fart. Kill me.
 
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Lots of salient points offered above by Alydar. However, is Alydar not aware that Haley Jones is a frosh at Stanford now (2019, not 2021)? Also, Alydar refers to OSU as the "Rodney Dangerfield" of women's collegiate basketball. If he was referring to Oregon State (and it appears that he was above), then there isn't a whole lot of additional respect that you could give Oregon State at this time in addition to a #4 national ranking in the polls. Most Oregon State fans are appreciative of the respect that a lot of basketball analysts have bestowed upon the program in recent years.

My reference to OSU was that for about 4 years now they have been an afterthought in the preseason picks. In Hamblin's senior year they "exceeded their talent". The next October they were dismissed because of the loss of Hamblin. Then it was the loss of Weisner. Then the loss of Wiese. Every year it's what they have lost. And yet they prevail. I have a ton of respect for Rueck.
 
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What in hell are you talking about?

Brain fart. But she made her pick over a year ago and yet you seem to think she knew then that there would be 4 PAC 12 teams in the top 10??????????? What were you thinking?
In fact, last year when she was picking the PAC12 for their "challenging conference schedule" the PAC12 power was Oregon (no.3) Stanford (no 7) and Cal (no 24) and not 4 of the top 10. One top 10 team, not 4 like you say.
 

CocoHusky

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Brain fart. But she made her pick over a year ago and yet you seem to think she knew then that there would be 4 PAC 12 teams in the top 10??????????? What were you thinking?
In fact, last year when she was picking the PAC12 for their "challenging conference schedule" the PAC12 power was Oregon (no.3) Stanford (no 7) and Cal (no 24) and not 4 of the top 10. One top 10 team, not 4 like you say.
Uhm.. A year ago when Haley made her decision there were 3 Pac 12 teams (Oregon, Oregon State & Stanford) in the top 10. A 4th Pac 12 Team UCLA would climb as as high as 14th. You are not very good at this are you?
 

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My reference to OSU was that for about 4 years now they have been an afterthought in the preseason picks. In Hamblin's senior year they "exceeded their talent". The next October they were dismissed because of the loss of Hamblin. Then it was the loss of Weisner. Then the loss of Wiese. Every year it's what they have lost. And yet they prevail. I have a ton of respect for Rueck.

Hamblin and Weisner were in the same class, along w/ Hunter, so they lost 3 starters. The next year they lost the other 2 starters from the Final 4 team, Wiese and Hanson.

Doesn't every program have to go through the same evolution? If a team is top notch year after year despite whoever they might've lost to graduation, eventually the narrative catches up. You wouldn't expect that when the initial group of players that brought success move on. I think OSU is there now.

We'll see that next year w/ Oregon when Ionescu and Hebard use up their eligibility.
 
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Hamblin and Weisner were in the same class, along w/ Hunter, so they lost 3 starters. The next year they lost the other 2 starters from the Final 4 team, Wiese and Hanson.

Doesn't every program have to go through the same evolution? If a team is top notch year after year despite whoever they might've lost to graduation, eventually the narrative catches up. You wouldn't expect that when the initial group of players that brought success move on. I think OSU is there now.

We'll see that next year w/ Oregon when Ionescu and Hebard use up their eligibility.


We'll see that next year w/ Oregon when Ionescu and Hebard use up their eligibility.


If you think that no one else has stepped up this year, or no one else will perform in the future , or Graves can't recruit then you will be sadly mistaken.

Remember Rueck recruited Jazz Shelley too and would have loved to have her. She may be the best Aussie woman player in the NCAA's this year.
 

nwhoopfan

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We'll see that next year w/ Oregon when Ionescu and Hebard use up their eligibility.


If you think that no one else has stepped up this year, or no one else will perform in the future , or Graves can't recruit then you will be sadly mistaken.

Remember Rueck recruited Jazz Shelley too and would have loved to have her. She may be the best Aussie woman player in the NCAA's this year.

Step back from the ledge. I'm not saying Oregon won't be good, I'm saying you'll hear a lot of talk about who they lost. Context matters, look at what I was responding to.
 
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Uhm.. A year ago when Haley made her decision there were 3 Pac 12 teams (Oregon, Oregon State & Stanford) in the top 10. A 4th Pac 12 Team UCLA would climb as as high as 14th. You are not very good at this are you?

Not saying you are wrong but week 4 is December and past the signing period. But you tell me what date she announced.


BTW, in an aside, Big East bottom-feeder Providence took down Utah tonight, at Utah. Does Stanford play the Utes or do they pass on that game? :rolleyes:
 
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Not saying you are wrong but week 4 is December and past the signing period. But you tell me what date she announced. So we are both wrong. There were 2 PAC12 challengers in the top 10.


BTW, in an aside, Big East bottom-feeder Providence took down that challenging program Utah tonight, at Utah no less. Does Stanford play the Utes or do they pass on that game? :rolleyes:
 
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We'll see that next year w/ Oregon when Ionescu and Hebard use up their eligibility.


If you think that no one else has stepped up this year, or no one else will perform in the future , or Graves can't recruit then you will be sadly mistaken.

Remember Rueck recruited Jazz Shelley too and would have loved to have her. She may be the best Aussie woman player in the NCAA's this year.

This conversation seems to have evolved from a discussion of a recruit's announcement to an analysis of the PAC12. I'll leave that to those who follow the conference. I became a fan of PAC12 watching OSU when Hamblin was a senior and my knowledge of the rest has just been watching the Huskies beat them all, often and decisively. (Stanford excluded) I'll be watching again starting in January, when the games among the top 3 are played.
 

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