Big East OOC thread '25/'26 | Page 9 | The Boneyard
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Big East OOC thread '25/'26

upstater said:
Anyone a little worried about this conference? There are some Catholic private schools suffering nationwide right now. Been hearing about dire things at Niagara, Canisius, St. Bonavenure. I'm sure things aren't so rosy at Seton Hall, DePaul, Xavier and maybe even Providence.
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As institutions all the Big East schools will be fine. The only that are little worrisome are Xavier (enrollment issues) and Seton Hall (NJ private schools don't have a great future).
 
upstater said:
Anyone a little worried about this conference? There are some Catholic private schools suffering nationwide right now. Been hearing about dire things at Niagara, Canisius, St. Bonavenure. I'm sure things aren't so rosy at Seton Hall, DePaul, Xavier and maybe even Providence.
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Lower birth rates so less kids graduating high school and going to college. Increasing tuitions, increasing costs. There simply seems to be too many colleges and too many bloated administrative staffs. From what I've read and observed over the years all of higher education needs to get leaner.

One thing the Catholic schools have going for them is young people are going to church more than I've ever seen and more young people are converting to Catholicism.

I think Seton Hall and Providence are fine financially. I did read Xavier is having some problems.
 
BFieldHusky said:
Kim English is a terrible coach.
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He proved it with the timeout in a tied game with his best guard driving towards the basket with 3.5 seconds in regulation.

What a nice guy.....gives the opposing coach time to set up the defense for a sideline out of bounds play.....then he had the look of a deer in the headlights as his assistant kept the clipboard and huddled with the players while English looked on from behind..

Made me think of Phil Martelli running the Michigan huddles while Juwann Howard stood by with his thumb up his arse.
 
Bad night tonight

Winners: Villanova, Butler, Providence
Losers: Creighton, DePaul

Overall: 23-7 (1-4) with two bad losses: Xavier and DePaul
 
Losing these out of conference games is one thing, but getting smashed is fast sinking the strength of our schedule and putting huge weight on our very tough games. Xavier and Creighton didn't look like any threat to be good. Both teams were very slow it seemed to me, both in reactions and foot speed. Marquette I didn't watch but also gets blown out. St John's is the only losing team to have respect for. Georgetown looks up and coming with a solid Maryland win after a Kentucky exhibition win. All the pressure is fast shifting to our next games or we are heading to a seeding abyss that we won't be able to pull ourselves out of beating Big East teams with no resumes.

On the positive side BYU was down to Delaware -13 in the first half and down -5 at halftime I believe. They roared in the second half but aren't consistent. Florida looked vulnerable vs FL St. Front line will be a challenge but only Boogie Fland in backcourt. I actually think Reibe can match Condon if necessary because Condon plays a bit stiff and cautious. The other bigs are a problem when they have 2-3 6'10 guys in.
 
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Ricker said:
Losing these out of conference games is one thing, but getting smashed is fast sinking the strength of our schedule and putting huge weight on our very tough games. Xavier and Creighton didn't look like any threat to be good. Both teams were very slow it seemed to me, both in reactions and foot speed. Marquette I didn't watch but also gets blown out. St John's is the only losing team to have respect for. Georgetown looks up and coming with a solid Maryland win after a Kentucky exhibition win. All the pressure is fast shifting to our next games or we are heading to a seeding abyss that we won't be able to pull ourselves out of beating Big East teams with no resumes.

On the positive side BYU was down to Delaware -13 in the first half and down -5 at halftime I believe. They roared in the second half but aren't consistent. Florida looked vulnerable vs FL St. Front line will be a challenge but only Boogie Fland in backcourt. I actually think Reibe can match Condon if necessary because Condon plays a bit stiff and cautious. The other bigs are a problem when they have 2-3 6'10 guys in.
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Not to say I told you so, but I've been saying this for weeks. That these OOC for us are critical to any decent seeding in the tourney because all the BE can do is weigh us down. Why I was really concerned with the Mullins injury.

BE has one team in the KP top 20, 2 teams in the KP top 43. Nova is 44 right now. The Mount West has 3 teams in the top 45 as well, as a barometer.
 
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Devland said:
Always happy to see Creighton lose. I've never understood rooting for conference mates. No other sports do. Do Giants fans root for Eagles or Cowboys?
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Brother, our conference strength has a lot of bearing on how we seed in the tourney, it also brings money to the league. It also brings TV revenue. Division strength doesn't matter in pro sports, it does in college. Let's not forget that top kids want to play against good team.

I used to pull hard for our conference mates on an emotional level when I was prideful for the BE being the best conference in the country. Now that any chance of that is gone, much less so. I'll always pull for our old brothers like GTown & Nova, less so for the midwest adds. Nowadays I simply pull for them as it comes to positioning Uconn best possible from an economics, recruiting and seeding perspective.
 
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RuffRuff said:
Not to say I told you so, but I've been saying this for weeks. That these OOC for us are critical to any decent seeding in the tourney because all the BE can do is weigh us down. Why I was really concerned with the Mullins injury.

BE has one team in the KP top 20, 2 teams in the KP top 43. Nova is 44 right now. The Mount West has 3 teams in the top 45 as well, as a barometer.
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The KenPom stuff is massively premature. I remind you of what you said about it just 3 days ago, it's not useful until last year's data is weeded out

IMG_1394.jpeg
 
The Big East is an absolute disaster. Val's leadership has been terrible and she has squandered any momentum the league was trying to create organically by simply rolling over to the TV networks and putting zero effort into marketing the league -- and that's when the product was pretty good.

Now, the product is bad -- even though with the rev share the schools should be doing well. As of today, we're looking at a TWO-BID LEAGUE. We got 3 teams in '24, and that was being the 2nd best conference in KenPom. That was a marketing problem. We're going to get two now because of failed leadership plus the lack of everyone else pulling their weight. The situation is DIRE if everyone doesn't take care of business in non-con.
  • UConn (KP #6)
  • St. Johns (#22) -- lack of a PG on full display in a marquee home LOSS vs a top SEC team. Still has 4 top 27 matchups in non-con to make up for it, but projected to go 1-3 as of now. Not good -- that sets them up for a 7/8 seed at best?
  • Villanova (#44) -- lost to BYU already, has top 16 Michigan and Wisco coming up. Given Willard's shoddy track record and it being year 1, not really going to hold my breath. Probably need to win both to get an at-large as the rest of their non-con is a bad Pitt and mid-majors.
  • Creighton (#53) -- lost to Gonzaga by 27 last night. 27! A team UConn has dominated the last few years. . Seemingly play half the Big 12 in non-con rest of the way, with #19 Baylor and #8 ISU back-to-back in Vegas in 2 weeks. Need a split and then take care of business vs mediocre Nebraska and KSt. If they go 2-2 or god forbid 1-3 or worse, they're going to be squarely on the bubble and likely on the outside. Again, not good.
  • Marquette (#63) -- Shaka refusing to take transfers for a 3rd straight year is finally going to do him in. Got blown out by Indiana with a first year head coach. Seriously? Have #16 Wisco and #7 Purdue along with mediocre Maryland/Dayton/Oklahoma. Need 4 wins out of that to be safe...but at KenPom #63 they have A LOT of work to do...
  • Butler (#70) -- Play no one sub-42 in NonCon right now. Outside chance if they sweep the 4 decent games they have, good luck with that.
  • PC (#73) -- Another team that plays #16 Wisco, and that's their best opponent. Already lost to a mediocre Va Tech in OT.
  • Gtown (#74) -- Beat #57 Maryland! Oh wow! Has opportunities vs #21 Clemson and #26 UNC. Win 1 of those and they might be able to sneak into the bubble assuming they don't pick up bad Ls.
  • Hall (#90) -- #28 NC State only top 53 non-con opponent. Abysmal schedule.
  • Xavier (#103) -- Just got their teeth kicked in at home vs Santa Clara. Have some opportunities (and Santa Clara isn't the worst loss technically) but also struggled vs Marist and Le Moyne. Dick Pitinio in one in year 1.
  • DePaul (#117) -- Buffalo just handled them in Chicago. Other than Northwester, pretty bad non-con (6 300+ cupcakes). Forever Basement.
So to sum it up, it will be an uphill fight for 3 bids, let alone 4+. That has dangerous ramifications, both financially and for future recruiting. The good news is that the teams in-line for a bid can control their own destiny (granted, that would mean beating Wisconsin 3 times and thus devaluing their own resume).

We need to get out.

EDIT: Yes, it's way too premature to use KenPom numbers accurately. So much can change. But given where things currently stand, everyone still has A LOT of work to do. The conference is in a bad state and is not grading out well in the metrics. Bad.
 
ThabeetDown said:
The Big East is an absolute disaster. Val's leadership has been terrible and she has squandered any momentum the league was trying to create organically by simply rolling over to the TV networks and putting zero effort into marketing the league -- and that's when the product was pretty good.

Now, the product is bad -- even though with the rev share the schools should be doing well. As of today, we're looking at a TWO-BID LEAGUE. We got 3 teams in '24, and that was being the 2nd best conference in KenPom. That was a marketing problem. We're going to get two now because of failed leadership plus the lack of everyone else pulling their weight. The situation is DIRE if everyone doesn't take care of business in non-con.
  • UConn (KP #6)
  • St. Johns (#22) -- lack of a PG on full display in a marquee home LOSS vs a top SEC team. Still has 4 top 27 matchups in non-con to make up for it, but projected to go 1-3 as of now. Not good -- that sets them up for a 7/8 seed at best?
  • Villanova (#44) -- lost to BYU already, has top 16 Michigan and Wisco coming up. Given Willard's shoddy track record and it being year 1, not really going to hold my breath. Probably need to win both to get an at-large as the rest of their non-con is a bad Pitt and mid-majors.
  • Creighton (#53) -- lost to Gonzaga by 27 last night. 27! A team UConn has dominated the last few years. . Seemingly play half the Big 12 in non-con rest of the way, with #19 Baylor and #8 ISU back-to-back in Vegas in 2 weeks. Need a split and then take care of business vs mediocre Nebraska and KSt. If they go 2-2 or god forbid 1-3 or worse, they're going to be squarely on the bubble and likely on the outside. Again, not good.
  • Marquette (#63) -- Shaka refusing to take transfers for a 3rd straight year is finally going to do him in. Got blown out by Indiana with a first year head coach. Seriously? Have #16 Wisco and #7 Purdue along with mediocre Maryland/Dayton/Oklahoma. Need 4 wins out of that to be safe...but at KenPom #63 they have A LOT of work to do...
  • Butler (#70) -- Play no one sub-42 in NonCon right now. Outside chance if they sweep the 4 decent games they have, good luck with that.
  • PC (#73) -- Another team that plays #16 Wisco, and that's their best opponent. Already lost to a mediocre Va Tech in OT.
  • Gtown (#74) -- Beat #57 Maryland! Oh wow! Has opportunities vs #21 Clemson and #26 UNC. Win 1 of those and they might be able to sneak into the bubble assuming they don't pick up bad Ls.
  • Hall (#90) -- #28 NC State only top 53 non-con opponent. Abysmal schedule.
  • Xavier (#103) -- Just got their teeth kicked in at home vs Santa Clara. Have some opportunities (and Santa Clara isn't the worst loss technically) but also struggled vs Marist and Le Moyne. Dick Pitinio in one in year 1.
  • DePaul (#117) -- Buffalo just handled them in Chicago. Other than Northwester, pretty bad non-con (6 300+ cupcakes). Forever Basement.
So to sum it up, it will be an uphill fight for 3 bids, let alone 4+. That has dangerous ramifications, both financially and for future recruiting. The good news is that the teams in-line for a bid can control their own destiny (granted, that would mean beating Wisconsin 3 times and thus devaluing their own resume).

We need to get out.
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St. John's didn't lose because of a lack of a point guard.
 
Devland said:
Always happy to see Creighton lose. I've never understood rooting for conference mates. No other sports do. Do Giants fans root for Eagles or Cowboys?
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Non-divisional wins of division foes negatively impact teams in the pros. Non-conference wins of conference foes positively impact college teams. It’s that simple.
 
Wether we leave or there is some merger with ACC is the stuff of speculation.

Women Huskies do fine in the BE with even less competition than the men’s.

I also think our seeding this year and this is a generalized thought to any team is that if we crush our OOC competition and wind up with < 5 losses the conference won’t dictate our seeding. That is due to a very crazy OOC sched.

But also this is very early - many teams are playing local scrubs still with the occasional big game like Illinois by 4 at home vs Texas Tech (which shows parity given HC is ~3 pts worth) and some others we post in the non BE OOC.

Not sure who was saying Creighton would be really good but they got flattened by Gonzaga who I think is about the same as last year.
 
ThabeetDown said:
The Big East is an absolute disaster. Val's leadership has been terrible and she has squandered any momentum the league was trying to create organically by simply rolling over to the TV networks and putting zero effort into marketing the league -- and that's when the product was pretty good.

Now, the product is bad -- even though with the rev share the schools should be doing well. As of today, we're looking at a TWO-BID LEAGUE. We got 3 teams in '24, and that was being the 2nd best conference in KenPom. That was a marketing problem. We're going to get two now because of failed leadership plus the lack of everyone else pulling their weight. The situation is DIRE if everyone doesn't take care of business in non-con.
  • UConn (KP #6)
  • St. Johns (#22) -- lack of a PG on full display in a marquee home LOSS vs a top SEC team. Still has 4 top 27 matchups in non-con to make up for it, but projected to go 1-3 as of now. Not good -- that sets them up for a 7/8 seed at best?
  • Villanova (#44) -- lost to BYU already, has top 16 Michigan and Wisco coming up. Given Willard's shoddy track record and it being year 1, not really going to hold my breath. Probably need to win both to get an at-large as the rest of their non-con is a bad Pitt and mid-majors.
  • Creighton (#53) -- lost to Gonzaga by 27 last night. 27! A team UConn has dominated the last few years. . Seemingly play half the Big 12 in non-con rest of the way, with #19 Baylor and #8 ISU back-to-back in Vegas in 2 weeks. Need a split and then take care of business vs mediocre Nebraska and KSt. If they go 2-2 or god forbid 1-3 or worse, they're going to be squarely on the bubble and likely on the outside. Again, not good.
  • Marquette (#63) -- Shaka refusing to take transfers for a 3rd straight year is finally going to do him in. Got blown out by Indiana with a first year head coach. Seriously? Have #16 Wisco and #7 Purdue along with mediocre Maryland/Dayton/Oklahoma. Need 4 wins out of that to be safe...but at KenPom #63 they have A LOT of work to do...
  • Butler (#70) -- Play no one sub-42 in NonCon right now. Outside chance if they sweep the 4 decent games they have, good luck with that.
  • PC (#73) -- Another team that plays #16 Wisco, and that's their best opponent. Already lost to a mediocre Va Tech in OT.
  • Gtown (#74) -- Beat #57 Maryland! Oh wow! Has opportunities vs #21 Clemson and #26 UNC. Win 1 of those and they might be able to sneak into the bubble assuming they don't pick up bad Ls.
  • Hall (#90) -- #28 NC State only top 53 non-con opponent. Abysmal schedule.
  • Xavier (#103) -- Just got their teeth kicked in at home vs Santa Clara. Have some opportunities (and Santa Clara isn't the worst loss technically) but also struggled vs Marist and Le Moyne. Dick Pitinio in one in year 1.
  • DePaul (#117) -- Buffalo just handled them in Chicago. Other than Northwester, pretty bad non-con (6 300+ cupcakes). Forever Basement.
So to sum it up, it will be an uphill fight for 3 bids, let alone 4+. That has dangerous ramifications, both financially and for future recruiting. The good news is that the teams in-line for a bid can control their own destiny (granted, that would mean beating Wisconsin 3 times and thus devaluing their own resume).

We need to get out.

EDIT: Yes, it's way too premature to use KenPom numbers accurately. So much can change. But given where things currently stand, everyone still has A LOT of work to do. The conference is in a bad state and is not grading out well in the metrics. Bad.
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Grow up. It’s November 12, were you saying the Big East sucked after we went 0-3 in Maui? You’re over here citing KenPom ratings that are 95% tied to last seasons performance. And while I do agree with you on the Big East leadership, you got to get a grip. We’ll be at 3-5 teams this March, like we usually do. It’s early, too early to have these conversations so stop overreacting.

And lol at the “we gotta get out comment.” And go where? The NBA? The A10? Maybe the SEC! No one wants our program yet given the circumstances. This is the reality of it - all we can do is win and not have our administration/AD act like idiots.
 
navery12 said:
The KenPom stuff is massively premature. I remind you of what you said about it just 3 days ago, it's not useful until last year's data is weeded out

View attachment 113167
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You're right, but by the looks of what we have so far, I'm not expecting it to improve much. I expect Pitino to right StJ, we'll be fine. It's the other 9 programs that will be the issue.

Creighton looked awful, qualitatively. Marquette, same. They were our fighting chance at a third bid. The DePaul & Xavier losses are holes we won't dig out of.

Been saying it for awhile now, but we have to grab at least 4 wins out of these 6 to grab a top seed. These games are a big deal.
 
upstater said:
Anyone a little worried about this conference? There are some Catholic private schools suffering nationwide right now. Been hearing about dire things at Niagara, Canisius, St. Bonavenure. I'm sure things aren't so rosy at Seton Hall, DePaul, Xavier and maybe even Providence.
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Niagara Canisius and St Bonny are a tough sell always, surprised their struggles haven't been showing up earlier.
 
RuffRuff said:
You're right, but by the looks of what we have so far, I'm not expecting it to improve much. I expect Pitino to right StJ, we'll be fine. It's the other 9 programs that will be the issue.

Creighton looked awful, qualitatively. Marquette, same. They were our fighting chance at a third bid. The DePaul & Xavier losses are holes we won't dig out of.

Been saying it for awhile now, but we have to grab at least 4 wins out of these 6 to grab a top seed. These games are a big deal.
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I don't disagree that a lot of teams have looked bad, or even that a lot of teams in the Big East are bad.

But I still expect 4-5 bids, because with all the player and roster turnover in college basketball, everyone looks bad. There's a ton of bad basketball and surprising results all over college basketball as teams learn to play. I don't think Creighton looking bad yesterday necessarily means it's going to look like that all year
 
CTBasketball said:
Grow up. It’s November 12, were you saying the Big East sucked after we went 0-3 in Maui? You’re over here citing KenPom ratings that are 95% tied to last seasons performance. And while I do agree with you on the Big East leadership, you got to get a grip. We’ll be at 3-5 teams this March, like we usually do. It’s early, too early to have these conversations so stop overreacting.

And lol at the “we gotta get out comment.” And go where? The NBA? The A10? Maybe the SEC! No one wants our program yet given the circumstances. This is the reality of it - all we can do is win and not have our administration/AD act like idiots.
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The immaturity to not understand the dire situation the conference is frankly impressive. For reference, here are the preseason rankings from last year vs this year:

UConn: 5/5 (NCAAT)
SJU: 19/16 (NCAAT)
Nova: 20/50
Creighton: 12/41 (NCAAT)
Marquette: 22/47 (NCAAT)
Butler: 83/72
PC: 60/48
Gtown: 88/82
Hall: 91/90
Xavier: 33/62 (NCAAT)
DePaul: 163/78

So our 5 NCAAT bids last year were all top 33 teams preseason. Same thing in '24 when we only had 3 bids -- our 3 bids were all preseason top 12 teams. Nova was preseason 23 and fell off, just like last year.

The preseason rankings are a good indication that the team is capable of getting a bid! Based on the same metrics for this year, we're at 2, exactly what I said in my post. Also, as I mentioned in my post, teams control their own destiny by winning the marquee games on their schedule (for those that scheduled them).

If you want to be stuck on a sinking ship as the world around you changes so you can what go play tummy sticks with your neighbor who went to Providence or Villanova, be my guest.

EDIT: Also, you act like 3 teams is a good thing. That is bad. As a small conference with smaller revenue, you need to maximize tourney credits. 3 teams, one of whom tradionally can't even get out of the first weekend frankly doesn't pay the bills.
 
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