Big East Expansion?

[CL82]

TV DMAs don't matter anymore not that they carry the Boston market anyway, but now eyeballs matter and they don't bring much. There is a reason their football program is on the same platform as UConn's olympic sports.

Outside of hockey that AD has performed quite poorly and it has eroded alumni interest in the college athletics from my outsider's view of things.

Sure they could be a "sleeping giant" but you could say that of nearly any program if you upgrade them in conference, it doesn't mean much at end of day since it is a hypothesis. Historically in college athletics these types of bets don't work out (it's once the AAC has tried and failed and doubled down again with it's recent additions).

For what it’s worth, I think that UMass being good is a good thing for UConn, but it needs more than wishful thinking for it to happen. if Massachusetts makes an investment in itself such that its programs are competitive, then, and only then, I think they would be a good add to the Big East.

 

[freescooter]

My guess is at the end of the day they add Gonzaga, and everyone regrets it for the rest of time. Gonzaga because it plays half its games 3 time zones away and needs to drop many of its national games, and everyone else because it is all predicated on Gonzaga having an outsized national presence. If they step back even a little, it will be a problem. If they step back like we did, or like Butler did, or as UNC did before Roy, it will be seen as a disaster.

 

[metsfan2323]

Sure they could be a "sleeping giant" but you could say that of nearly any program if you upgrade them in conference, it doesn't mean much at end of day since it is a hypothesis. Historically in college athletics these types of bets don't work out (it's once the AAC has tried and failed and doubled down again with it's recent additions).

UCF football is the prime example of a team getting upgraded and running with it. USF fans must be in agony seeing them get upgraded to the B12. It would actually be much easier for UMASS to do the same thing in basketball if they were ever upgraded to the Big East, especially with the portal.

Houston basketball also did very well with their upgrade to the AAC. This is why UCONN (and Providence) will block UMASS if they can even though nobody likes to admit it.

If UCONN ever gets upgraded to a P5 conference then the Big East would be smart to backfill with UMASS.

 

[CL82]

This is why UCONN (and Providence) will block UMASS if they can even though nobody likes to admit it.

LOL, you might as well say UConn and Providence will block Central Connecticut from joining the Big East. It’s an easy statement to make, because neither school is even remotely close to being a suitable candidate.

To be honest, I don’t understand the thought process behind that. A strong UMass would be great for UConn and vice versa. When Connecticut made its first trip to the Hockey East championship game, UMass fans were very supportive. Having another national rival close enough that fans can easily make the trip would be good for both programs. Yeah, there’s no doubt that you’ll compete for recruits, but competition is a good thing forcing the competitors to each raise their game. That’s some thing that the BCU administration never understood and their failure to understand it left them out on an island with their program wallowing in disinterest and failure.

 

[KingLurk]

I think the Big East would jump at UMass if they were playing at the level they were under Calapari with Camby, etc. UConn already has a very good relationship with the school (not just football, but playing other sports and being a conference-mate in hockey). I don't think PC would be against a competitive UMass basketball team joining. The problem now is they aren't good enough currently for the Big East.

 

[KingLurk]

I also don't think there's any chance in the near future at the ACC collapsing. If anything, if the ACC loses teams to the Big Ten or SEC, they will just take teams from the Big 12. With the addition of Louisville, it's pretty obvious they don't care about academics or school culture. They'd grab WV and Kansas in a heartbeat. Big 12 is basically the Big East of 2010 at this point once they lose Texas and OU - good basketball league... but the footprint of that league is about 5 years behind (should have added teams before when they had a chance)... but Baylor, OK State and Iowa St aren't going to support a P5 conference anymore so than WV, Pitt and Louisville did.

 

[Storrs South]

UCF football is the prime example of a team getting upgraded and running with it. USF fans must be in agony seeing them get upgraded to the B12. It would actually be much easier for UMASS to do the same thing in basketball if they were ever upgraded to the Big East, especially with the portal.

Houston basketball also did very well with their upgrade to the AAC. This is why UCONN (and Providence) will block UMASS if they can even though nobody likes to admit it.

If UCONN ever gets upgraded to a P5 conference then the Big East would be smart to backfill with UMASS.

UCF is the exception, not the rule. Houston basketball excelled because they happened to have made a home run hire of a candidate that was P5 quality but had been exiled for what now appears to be silly infractions. Otherwise, having watched some Houston games in recent years there are not many fans that fill that arena which follows my initial point that generally if there are no fans, there will continue to be few fans unless Kansas or Texas come to town in the case of Houston. Here are photos of their senior night where they celebrated 4 seniors graduating and winning the AAC regular season crown, no one is there. Terrible. galleries

The AAC has tried this and largely failed (SMU in Dallas, Tulane in New Orleans, Temple in Philly, Tulsa, and Memphis) and fields and gyms across the conference have and continue to remain mostly empty. CUSA tried this as outlined in the article below and now the conference is on life support. Bringing in UMass does 1) nothing to enhance the TV contract 2) nothing to improve recruiting base for revenue sports 3) nothing for 80% of Big East members as far as interest / attendance 4) nothing for Big East brand / reputation. #1 being the most important point in today's market.

For UMass to find itself even so much as a remote consideration in my opinion, they would have to complete the basketball equivalent of what UCF has done in the last decade which would be something like multiple Sweet Sixteen appearances, no down years, and consistently in NCAA Tournament, and a massive increase in investment in the program from facilities to staff to operations. You have to act like you are worthy of the next level before you get there as they say in Corporate America.

I doubt most if any if any of the above happen. I wouldn't mind playing UMass in general but as far as a conference mate? Out of the question and unlikely for that to change in the near or distance future.

Will American Athletic Conference’s Expansion Gamble Work For TV? — TVREV

 

[CL82]

I also don't think there's any chance in the near future at the ACC collapsing. If anything, if the ACC loses teams to the Big Ten or SEC, they will just take teams from the Big 12. With the addition of Louisville, it's pretty obvious they don't care about academics or school culture. They'd grab WV and Kansas in a heartbeat. Big 12 is basically the Big East of 2010 at this point once they lose Texas and OU - good basketball league... but the footprint of that league is about 5 years behind (should have added teams before when they had a chance)... but Baylor, OK State and Iowa St aren't going to support a P5 conference anymore so than WV, Pitt and Louisville did.

I definitely think they give Kansas a long hard look. I’m not so sure that they would take West Virginia since they have never seriously considered them.

 

[KingLurk]

I definitely think they give Kansas a long hard look. I’m not so sure that they would take West Virginia since they have never seriously considered them.

You were right until they took Louisville - now anyone can get in the club hahaha

 

[CL82]

You were right until they took Louisville - now anyone can get in the club hahaha

Somewhat agree, although I think there is considerable buyers remorse about Louisville, which is understandable.

 

[billybud]

Louisville was a unique "get"...the ACC could put a clothespin on their nose...the ACC was, and is, a premier academic conference. but sports are sports.

Louisville:

1...they were a successful program
2...the ACC wanted to pull them before the Big 12 offered them
3...Louisville was an ESPN Top Market ...still #4 ESPN Market in 2020

 

[KingLurk]

Louisville was a unique "get"...the ACC could put a clothespin on their nose...the ACC was, and is, a premier academic conference. but sports are sports.

Louisville:

1...they were a successful program
2...the ACC wanted to pull them before the Big 12 offered them
3...Louisville was an ESPN Top Market ...still #4 ESPN Market in 2020

It definitely was "buy high". They also really seem to have gotten off lightly considering what happened with the men's basketball team... or at least, they could have been punished a lot more than they did. I didn't look it up but I am aware they had to forfeit a title.. I wonder how their overall punishment was compared to "too many text messages from Beau Archibald" and "transfer outs getting bad grades".

 

[billybud]

Pitt went 11-3 last season...ESPN lists them as #15 in the way too early 2022 rankings.

 

[gioff2323]

Pitt went 11-3 last season...ESPN lists them as #15 in the way too early 2022 rankings.

Pittsburgh doesn’t care about Pitt. No one does. They are the proverbial tree in the forest.

 

[billybud]

.But they do play football.

 

[freescooter]

Pitt, BC, Temple are interchangeable as far as local fan support is concerned. They are college teams in pro communities. If they happen to have a really good team, or if a major program like Norte Dame comes to town, sure they will draw but otherwise not so much.

 

[billybud]

It is all relative...Pitt attendance was over 40,000 at every home game last season...including matches with New Hampshire and Western Michigan.

They aren't king kongs of attendance but Pitt's home attendance last year had more 40,000 attending home games than did UConn in their 2010 BCS Bowl year.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

It is all relative...Pitt attendance was over 40,000 at every home game last season...including matches with New Hampshire and Western Michigan.

They aren't king kongs of attendance but Pitt's home attendance last year had more 40,000 attending home games than did UConn in their 2010 BCS Bowl year.

Was the 40k attendance or tickets distributed?

 

[billybud]

Was the 40k attendance or tickets distributed?

All schools report the same way....Wall Street Joutnal 2017...

Out of the 100 schools the Journal surveyed, all but one announce the total tickets sold (or distributed, since schools often give out free tickets) as their attendance, as opposed to tickets scanned. Some schools even count stadium staff, the marching band, and the media among their attendance numbers.

 

[Viet Vet]

What BS! Reminds me that Penn considers me an "alumnus" because I attended for at least 1 1/2 years. Didn't graduate. Ultimately (after my stint with Uncle Sam) I transferred and graduated from UConn. To me, I am an alumnus of UConn.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

All schools report the same way....Wall Street Joutnal 2017...

Out of the 100 schools the Journal surveyed, all but one announce the total tickets sold (or distributed, since schools often give out free tickets) as their attendance, as opposed to tickets scanned. Some schools even count stadium staff, the marching band, and the media among their attendance numbers.

That's my point. Almost EVERY Pitt home game I have seen on TV or pics of, shows a half empty stadium (or worse). If they averaged 40k last year in the stands I'd eat my hat. Anyone can look it up - look at the pics of the UMass, Western Michigan, New Hampshire, etc etc games. No way no how they averaged 40k last year.

 

[billybud]

Yep...like most schools...

But Pitt stadium, with a capacity of 69,400...you can leave a vast swath of near 30,000 empty seats and still have the number...no one knows how many seats are actually filled for any program.

I have attended games in Columbus, Ann Arbor, Clemson, Gainesville, Auburn. and Baton Rouge and that were packed.....I suspect that some schools do put butts in the seats...but they still report tickets distributed.

 

[freescooter]

Umass would be interesting, but not right now. The idea that taking a bad to mediocre team and putting them in a better league will elevate them is not really true. Look at DePaul. We’ve been hearing about there potential forever. Through I don’t know how many coaches. Heck look at UConn. The Big East didn’t elevate us, Jim Calhoun did. Lest you doubt that, keep in mind that he was a guy who took a D2 team and in three years had them in the NCAA tournament pushing the Big East Champ to double ot before losing. Oh, and he would have been in the tourney in 2 years but the rules at the time prevented him from going despite winning his league. So while I actually do think UMass makes sense from many perspectives, I’d want to see actual sustained success first.

 

[CL82]

Umass would be interesting, but not right now. The idea that taking a bad to mediocre team and putting them in a better league will elevate them is not really true. Look at DePaul. We’ve been hearing about there potential forever. Through I don’t know how many coaches. Heck look at UConn. The Big East didn’t elevate us, Jim Calhoun did. Lest you doubt that, keep in mind that he was a guy who took a D2 team and in three years had them in the NCAA tournament pushing the Big East Champ to double ot before losing. Oh, and he would have been in the tourney in 2 years but the rules at the time prevented him from going despite winning his league. So while I actually do think UMass makes sense from many perspectives, I’d want to see actual sustained success first.

I doubt Jim Calhoun would’ve come to Connecticut if we weren’t in the Big East. He talked with Bobby Knight about the job and, if I recall correctly, Knights advice to him was to take it because the Big East was a “coaches conference“ rather than a “institution conference” like the Big Ten.

I agree with you about UMass.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The Big East absolutely elevated UConn basketball. That's why we moved back to it, too.