Big East DPOY Race

[FriarJ]

That's basically a full game played without him. And there's been no dropoff in their defense (as of now it's been slightly better with him off the court). Even if the small sample size is concealing an effect, it's certainly not a large one.

He's a very good defender. But wing defenders are the least impactful defenders overall. He protects the rim a little bit and is versatile, but 1 versatile player doesn't help you as much as the value of having several, if that makes sense. A good wing defender can be somewhat avoided. And unlike say a shutdown NFL corner when you avoid them, that doesn't erase half the field, only 1/5. Locking down a wing player will only be relevant in certain matchups, unlike locking down the rim or disrupting the point of attack ballhandler.

For a wing defender to have a truly elite defensive value, they have to be disruptive (either help a ton at the rim or get in passing lanes/make steals, be part of a press, etc.)

Ask Justin Lewis and Shaka Smart about Minaya. Smart specifically called him out in his presser.

 

[FriarJ]

I phrased that very poorly. Meant Minya didn’t stop Martin, and that I notice Morsell when I watch Marquette.

He just won BE player of the week. If you don't notice him then you are absolutely not watching the games,

 

[auror]

Ask Justin Lewis and Shaka Smart about Minaya. Smart specifically called him out in his presser.

Locking down a wing player will only be relevant in certain matchups, unlike locking down the rim or disrupting the point of attack ballhandler.

That's one of the few matchups in the conference where a good wing defender is very relevant, because Lewis plays a bit of a point power forward role, which is pretty rare in college basketball. St. John's the other really beneficial matchup.

 

[FriarJ]

The best defender on Providence has been COVID, guys been shutting down all the tough opponents.

He let us down with Nova, but there is still time!

 

[Hungryhusky99]

That's basically a full game played without him. And there's been no dropoff in their defense (as of now it's been slightly better with him off the court). Even if the small sample size is concealing an effect, it's certainly not a large one.

He's a very good defender. But wing defenders are the least impactful defenders overall. He protects the rim a little bit and is versatile, but 1 versatile player doesn't help you as much as the value of having several, if that makes sense. A good wing defender can be somewhat avoided. And unlike say a shutdown NFL corner when you avoid them, that doesn't erase half the field, only 1/5. Locking down a wing player will only be relevant in certain matchups, unlike locking down the rim or disrupting the point of attack ballhandler.

For a wing defender to have a truly elite defensive value, they have to be disruptive (either help a ton at the rim or get in passing lanes/make steals, be part of a press, etc.)

I mean the only two games he sat for significant minutes were against us and Seton Hall. The defense holding up against us without Sanogo and with a rusty Martin doesn't really prove much. Seton Hall was also coming off a pause and a bit short handed that game as well so the argument that they are just as good without him on the court seems a bit lazy to me.

He protects the rim a little bit and is versatile, but 1 versatile player doesn't help you as much as the value of having several, if that makes sense.

Ground breaking stuff here as well. No way having multiple good defenders is better than having one.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Minaya has been a great defender. Very versatile. Whaley is that as well. No need to bash one or the other. I personally think Whaley was significantly better on defense last season, but he has been good this season as well.

 

[elmcityboy]

Minaya has been a great defender. Very versatile. Whaley is that as well. No need to bash one or the other. I personally think Whaley was significantly better on defense last season, but he has been good this season as well.

this is a rarity -- a reasonable, even-handed take on the-boneyard.com

i more-or-less agree. whaley is my favorite player on the team, but he hasn't had the same season as last year, at least in terms of counting stats. that being said, if he has a few of the "statement games" he had last year -- games where he has 5+ blocks, is terrorizing pick-and-roll ballhandlers all game, etc. -- he will become the favorite very quickly.

 

[FriarJ]

He has a point.

He’s not JC level as a coach but these New England guys just know how to tell it as it is. He does have the “what are they going to do to me” thing going though, just like JC.

 

[Ronobro]

Not sure if somebody has mentioned it already but the watchlist came out for the Naismith national defensive payer of the year. No Whaley. Posh Alexander is the only BE guy represented. Walker Kessler made the cut though, which makes me feel even better about Sanogo’s 30 that game.

 

[FriarJ]

Not sure if somebody has mentioned it already but the watchlist came out for the Naismith national defensive payer of the year. No Whaley. Posh Alexander is the only BE guy represented. Walker Kessler made the cut though, which makes me feel even better about Sanogo’s 30 that game.

That's what the Cooley video is about. He states "only one player from the BE? That's some bull####!"

 

[OkaForPrez]

Cooley is great. A strong PC is great for the big east and I hope the rivalry continues to gain steam. It’s fun to play PC when they’re up. Watson is fun to hate. A- player, A+ yapper.

 

[Dooooooomed]

My views toward Cooley certainly changed since joining the league. He goes hard for the BE. I like it.

 

[Huskyforlife]

If PC gets Bowen and Griffths, we’ll be taking them seriously for awhile.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It amazes me that anyone cares who is Big East DPOY.

 

[Huskybass]

Cooley is great. A strong PC is great for the big east and I hope the rivalry continues to gain steam. It’s fun to play PC when they’re up. Watson is fun to hate. A- player, A+ yapper.

The problem with Cooley is that his teams never do anything in March. He has been a head coach since 2006 and has one NCAA tournament win total. Honest.

 

[bluestreak]

The Big East will have a great opportunity this spring when they will be heavily represented in the tourney. I think we will do some damage.

 

[Friarsnoop]

Minaya has been a great defender. Very versatile. Whaley is that as well. No need to bash one or the other. I personally think Whaley was significantly better on defense last season, but he has been good this season as well.

I think Minaya is a legitimate national defensive player of the year candidate, but also think he, Whaley, and Morsell should've joined Posh on the list. This doesn't even take into account a number of other high level defensive player in the conference like Andre Jackson, Rhoden, Aaron Thompson, Al Durham, etc.

 

[Friars1917]

For a wing defender to have a truly elite defensive value, they have to be disruptive (either help a ton at the rim or get in passing lanes/make steals, be part of a press, etc.)

If you're insisting he's not meeting any of those criteria, you're not watching the games.

 

[FriarJ]

The problem with Cooley is that his teams never do anything in March. He has been a head coach since 2006 and has one NCAA tournament win total. Honest.

Nice smallie! The other problem that has a direct correlation to the problem you mentioned is we normally have gotten in while on the bubble. Those seeds are tough to have success with. They get you games like NC in NC two times and a stout Texas A&M squad with Robert Thompson as well as play in games. Finally when we had one decent seed (a 6) we drew Dayton in Columbus for a 10:00pm start Dayton home game. That’s why there is not a Friar fan alive complaining or worrying about our luck this year.

 

[Huskybass]

Nice smallie! The other problem that has a direct correlation to the problem you mentioned is we normally have gotten in while on the bubble. Those seeds are tough to have success with. They get you games like NC in NC two times and a stout Texas A&M squad with Robert Thompson as well as play in games. Finally when we had one decent seed (a 6) we drew Dayton in Columbus for a 10:00pm start Dayton home game. That’s why there is not a Friar fan alive complaining or worrying about our luck this year.

PC fans must be elated this year. 18-2, take care of business over the next month and a nice seed should follow. Cooley seems like a great guy and the conference is better when PC is good.

 

[Get a Job]

Nice smallie! The other problem that has a direct correlation to the problem you mentioned is we normally have gotten in while on the bubble. Those seeds are tough to have success with. They get you games like NC in NC two times and a stout Texas A&M squad with Robert Thompson as well as play in games. Finally when we had one decent seed (a 6) we drew Dayton in Columbus for a 10:00pm start Dayton home game. That’s why there is not a Friar fan alive complaining or worrying about our luck this year.

Agreed, but get prepared for maximum ribbing if you guys lost to a 13-seed this year!

 

[FriarJ]

Agreed, but get prepared for maximum ribbing if you guys lost to a 13-seed this year!

That’s certainly the path we are headed for. I guess we will see, this team appears different. Btw, all of those other games except the Dayton game came right down to the wire, it’s not like we haven’t been competitive. The Bryce Cotton gem against UNC in 2014 was particularly heartbreaking.

 

[auror]

If you're insisting he's not meeting any of those criteria, you're not watching the games.

I've watched a few (your games vs. UConn, Butler, Xavier, Marquette). His steal rate is literally the lowest on your team in conference play, and that stat doesn't really lie since it's a binary outcome (deflections would be better, but not available). He's good at denial and playing good on-ball without fouling defense, but not at creating turnovers. Indirectly that disrupts some team's offenses, but mostly those teams that run through their wings (I called out St Johns and Marquette already). I also mentioned in the post that he helps at the rim, but he's not elite in that regard, because he's not a full-time rim protector. UConn has 3 much better rim protectors alone. And I haven't seen you press with the intent to create turnovers. Let me know which facet of those things you think he does.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I've watched a few (your games vs. UConn, Butler, Xavier, Marquette). His steal rate is literally the lowest on your team in conference play, and that stat doesn't really lie since it's a binary outcome (deflections would be better, but not available). He's good at denial and playing good on-ball without fouling defense, but not at creating turnovers. Indirectly that disrupts some team's offenses, but mostly those teams that run through their wings (I called out St Johns and Marquette already). I also mentioned in the post that he helps at the rim, but he's not elite in that regard, because he's not a full-time rim protector. UConn has 3 much better rim protectors alone. And I haven't seen you press with the intent to create turnovers. Let me know which facet of those things you think he does.

The field goal percentage defense of Minaya is incredibly impressive. And steals for a great wing defender aren’t always super important. I mean all we have to do is look back to last year when Morsell locked up our backcourt. He doesn’t even average a steal a game for his career but has been a lockdown perimeter defender and won DPOY in the Big 10

 

[August_West]

Whaley’s stats are down, but if you watch him he’s the most intimidating and active defender in the conference from 30 ft out to the rim.

His hands are incredible. No player can reach and strip (or disrupt) without picking up a foul better than Whaley. However he is a notch down in overall defense this year for whatever reason ( nagging injuries? covid?) than he was last year. Still, all in all, a major plus asset on that end though. Love that kid.

 

[Friars1917]

I've watched a few (your games vs. UConn, Butler, Xavier, Marquette). His steal rate is literally the lowest on your team in conference play, and that stat doesn't really lie since it's a binary outcome (deflections would be better, but not available). He's good at denial and playing good on-ball without fouling defense, but not at creating turnovers. Indirectly that disrupts some team's offenses, but mostly those teams that run through their wings (I called out St Johns and Marquette already). I also mentioned in the post that he helps at the rim, but he's not elite in that regard, because he's not a full-time rim protector. UConn has 3 much better rim protectors alone. And I haven't seen you press with the intent to create turnovers. Let me know which facet of those things you think he does.

What you're insinuating here, is that he's not Dennis Rodman - he's not. He's one of the three best defenders in the Big East, and depending on your preference/values, he could be considered the best. You're choosing one statistical category (steal%) to pass judgment.

 

[auror]

What you're insinuating here, is that he's not Dennis Rodman - he's not. He's one of the three best defenders in the Big East, and depending on your preference/values, he could be considered the best. You're choosing one statistical category (steal%) to pass judgment.

My preference is for total defensive value and I'm noting that the positions do not provide this value equally on defense, and so from his position he has to do certain things to really make a difference, and he only does 1 of the options at a high level (1v1 individual defense, not disrupting offense or protecting the rim).

If you want to say he's one of the 3 best individual 1v1 wing defenders in the league, sure I agree he's up there.

Should a wing defender who doesn't cause steals and is not an elite rim protector be the DPOY in the conference? From my perspective, that type of player does not add enough total defensive value in most cases.