Big East, C7, AAC, NBE Split/Restructuring Re-Visited (Yada, yada, yada...)

[Hogoff]

Hopefully there will be a new thread about key tweets and it will be a thread about key tweets. It won’t be the original key tweet thread, it will be a new key tweet thread. The original key tweet thread will be dead. But, we will all know the origins is different then the new.

 

[goldendomer]

Hopefully there will be a new thread about key tweets and it will be a thread about key tweets. It won’t be the original key tweet thread, it will be a new key tweet thread. The original key tweet thread will be dead. But, we will all know the origins is different then the new.

First rule of the new key tweet thread is not to talk about the new key tweet thread. It will keep the old key tweet thread debates from knowing about the new key tweet thread.

 

[Billy Jack]

I'm starting to partially agree with the split rather than the C7 leaving, but according to wikipedia, the C7 left the conference. The best part of the wikipedia post is the fact that it line 1.4 was created:

View attachment 78093

Wikipedia doesn’t always get everything right.

 

[Hogoff]

Wikipedia doesn’t always get everything right.

Usually the boneyard does.

 

[JeepCSC]

There was a company called General Motors founded in 1908. In 2008, there was a bankruptcy and the founding of a new entity also called General Motors in 2009. Assets from the old GM were transferred to the new GM.

The new GM is 13 years old. It claims heritage to 1908. Not many are too caught up on the details of the legal entity, except of course the shareholders and pensioners that lost in the bankruptcy. Most consider it General Motors, with its full history.

The fly in the ointment is that the old BE stayed afloat. There was no reincorporation by the old BE, it didn’t cease to exist. The commissioner of the old BE didn’t have to reapply for a job. He kept his own.

 

[Kolumbo]

The fly in the ointment is that the old BE stayed afloat. There was no reincorporation by the old BE, it didn’t cease to exist. The commissioner of the old BE didn’t have to reapply for a job. He kept his own.

In fact, the Big East/AAC HQ staff remained in Providence until 2020 when it relocated to Irving, TX.

 

[Billy Jack]

This is right. The “original BE” is not the same as “original members of the original BE”. The “new BE” is not the same as new members of the either iteration of the BE.

There was a conference called the Big East from 1979-2013, it had fluctuating membership. Some were original members like Georgetown and Providence, some were not original members like Pittsburgh and West Virginia. All were members of the original BE. In 2013, a new conference was formed with 10 members, only 4 of which were actually original members of the original BE. It has been deemed the New Big East.

That’s the story, that’s all. Everything else is just a shell game.

So, anyone who doesn’t agree with your version is just playing a shell game? Interesting.

Here are the facts:

1. There is a conference called The Big East which has existed from 1979 to the present. Both the AAC and The Bug East agree on that point and they formally recognized it by putting it in writing.

2. The Big East had a consistent core group of members, which remain the core of the conference to this day.

3. Football membership fluctuated. The non-football core remained stable. The conference developed 2 wings.

4. After BC and Miami announced that they were leaving in 2003, it was anticipated that continuing instability due to football and the hybrid nature of the conference could eventually destroy the conference. Precisely to prevent this all sides agreed to a process by which the non-football members could be protected and could remain whole as a conference. This process, which was agreed to in writing, allowed a group to initiate a split only under circumstances in which they separated from the other wing en masse as a group. With 27 months notice, this process could be triggered without any financial penalties.

5. Anyone who lived through the creation of the Big East knows that Villanova was part of the founding group but was delayed in their ability to begin competition right away by their commitment to the Eastern 8. The fact that they gave notice to the Eastern 8 when they did confirms this fact. So, to claim that only 4 of the Big East break away group in 2013 were actually original members is based on a technicality which ignores what was going on in the real world.

6. More of a shell game is being played here when claiming that only 4 of 10 were original members of the Big East. The break away group was the C7, not 10. And 5 of the 7 were original members. The 7 then expanded to 10 by adding 3 more. But it was the group of 7 who established the Big East identity with their announcement in December, 2012.

7. “It has been deemed the New Big East”. No it hasn’t. The conference’s name is simply the Big East. The “new” reference at the time was for anyone who hadn’t kept up with fast moving developments and didn’t realize that UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, and the rest could no longer be found under that label. But, please, it’s been a decade. Everyone knows who the Bug East is and doesn’t need the “new” when the news is old. Give it a rest.

 

[freescooter]

So, anyone who doesn’t agree with your version is just playing a shell game? Interesting.

Here are the facts:

1. There is a conference called The Big East which has existed from 1979 to the present. Both the AAC and The Bug East agree on that point and they formally recognized it by putting it in writing.

2. The Big East had a consistent core group of members, which remain the core of the conference to this day.

3. Football membership fluctuated. The non-football core remained stable. The conference developed 2 wings.

4. After BC and Miami announced that they were leaving in 2003, it was anticipated that continuing instability due to football and the hybrid nature of the conference could eventually destroy the conference. Precisely to prevent this all sides agreed to a process by which the non-football members could be protected and could remain whole as a conference. This process, which was agreed to in writing, allowed a group to initiate a split only under circumstances in which they separated from the other wing en masse as a group. With 27 months notice, this process could be triggered without any financial penalties.

5. Anyone who lived through the creation of the Big East knows that Villanova was part of the founding group but was delayed in their ability to begin competition right away by their commitment to the Eastern 8. The fact that they gave notice to the Eastern 8 when they did confirms this fact. So, to claim that only 4 of the Big East break away group in 2013 were actually original members is based on a technicality which ignores what was going on in the real world.

6. More of a shell game is being played here when claiming that only 4 of 10 were original members of the Big East. The break away group was the C7, not 10. And 5 of the 7 were original members. The 7 then expanded to 10 by adding 3 more. But it was the group of 7 who established the Big East identity with their announcement in December, 2012.

7. “It has been deemed the New Big East”. No it hasn’t. The conference’s name is simply the Big East. The “new” reference at the time was for anyone who hadn’t kept up with fast moving developments and didn’t realize that UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, and the rest could no longer be found under that label. But, please, it’s been a decade. Everyone knows who the Bug East is and doesn’t need the “new” when the news is old. Give it a rest.

The New Big East is used to differentiate the current mass of mediocrity from the Big East, or the Real Big East if you prefer. You do know that between 1999 and the final collapse of the Real Big East, had multiple teams who won NCAA championships (UConn 3, Syracuse 1 and Louisville 2) , had multiple Final Four Teams 3 times and sent 6 different teams(UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, West Virginia, Georgetown and Villanova) to the Final 4. The New Big East has had only 1 team, Villanova, that has made a Final 4. That one team has won 2 titles. So I guess Villanova and the 11 dwarfs is an option for a nickname. UConn’s 4th title came as a member of the AAC. And it was 8 years ago. Might as well be Kentucky, though at least they have been to some Final Fours. So the current group of meh teams will be the New Big East to me until they earn a new name.

 

[SubbaBub]

There is a practical result and there are the technicalities of the bridge from the old Big East to the new Big East.

The Big East continued with larger share of its original members, its name, and the MSG contract.

It technically formed a new entity and transferred the name and the MSG contract, but that was just a mechanism.

I think the divorce analogy is a good one. The new Big East kept more of the value of assets (Name and MSG Contract), agreed to leave more cash with the AAC, and both sides agreed to the split with no further exit fees (which was a valued concession).

The Big East and the AAC formally agreed to share the records and the history of the original Big East.

The AAC contains no members of the Big East from its early years. The Big East has Georgetown, St John’s, UConn, Providence, Seton Hall, and Nova.

To.believe your mistaken POV, would mean that the C7 booted UConn and thr other FB members. Which is decidedly not what happened. Your exercise in semantics is just wrongheaded.

In fact, at the time, this kind of thinking was the main argument against selling the Big East name, but in order to entice new FB members the remaining schools needed money. Money which was owed to the seditious 7. A settlement afterwards doesn't change the facts. They left.

 

[businesslawyer]

To.believe your mistaken POV, would mean that the C7 booted UConn and thr other FB members. Which is decidedly not what happened. Your exercise in semantics is just wrongheaded.

In fact, at the time, this kind of thinking was the main argument against selling the Big East name, but in order to entice new FB members the remaining schools needed money. Money which was owed to the seditious 7. A settlement afterwards doesn't change the facts. They left.

You know how he knows he’s wrong? He uses the word “technically” as if it modifies the description of what actually happened that follows.

 

[Hondo 77]

You know how he knows he’s wrong? He uses the word “technically” as if it modifies the description of what actually happened that follows.

Some people believe that technically right is the best kind of right. #alternativefacts

 

[Zissou]

To.believe your mistaken POV, would mean that the C7 booted UConn and thr other FB members. Which is decidedly not what happened. Your exercise in semantics is just wrongheaded.

In fact, at the time, this kind of thinking was the main argument against selling the Big East name, but in order to entice new FB members the remaining schools needed money. Money which was owed to the seditious 7. A settlement afterwards doesn't change the facts. They left.

No. The C7 didn’t boot UConn. The conference split.

The basketball schools had more claim to the origins and heritage of the Big East and negotiated to keep the name.

What was cobbled together as football members in the final year before the split had less connection to the name and history. Only UConn in that group had ties to the 1980s Big East.

The C7 preserved the Big East. UConn collected the cash, gave the AAC a fair chance to negotiate a TV deal, and then came home after the AAC failed in its negotiations.

 

[JeepCSC]

Stop the madness. There was a split with several schools leaving the (old) Big East, brought in schools from other conferences, and started a brand new league. They bought the old name, but it was still a new league with a new charter. The NCAA even had to give their blessing to the new conference.

D1 Board recognizes new Big East

Another substantial step for the new Big East Conference clarifies their standing in college athletics.

www.vuhoops.com

 

[Zissou]

Stop the madness. There was a split with several schools leaving the (old) Big East, brought in schools from other conferences, and started a brand new league. They bought the old name, but it was still a new league with a new charter. The NCAA even had to give their blessing to the new conference.

GM is 13 years old, founded in 2009.

 

[CL82]

No. The C7 didn’t boot UConn. The conference split.

The basketball schools had more claim to the origins and heritage of the Big East and negotiated to keep the name.

What was cobbled together as football members in the final year before the split had less connection to the name and history. Only UConn in that group had ties to the 1980s Big East.

The C7 preserved the Big East. UConn collected the cash, gave the AAC a fair chance to negotiate a TV deal, and then came home after the AAC failed in its negotiations.

I’d say it differently. Aresco had a vision for the Big East conference as a national conference. The Big East name wasn’t necessary to that vision in, two an extent actually impeded it. In the meantime Aresco did not want to lose any of the football playing members of the conference. So he made the decision to allow the Catholic seven to buy the Big East name. Ultimately, I think we can agree that his decision was the wrong one. He gave up the branding of a truly great conference and basically tried to construct a more successful version of Conference USA.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

GM is 13 years old, founded in 2009.

Are you claiming that the original Big East conference went bankrupt?

 

[JeepCSC]

GM is 13 years old, founded in 2009.

It’s true in one sense, as that is the date of the new GM entity created. But that was basically a parlour trick of a paper company created to strip liabilities from assets, and was basically a government-approved restructuring of a bankrupt company. The old company only existed long enough to pay down debts, before it served it’s function and ceased to exist. Say what you want about the AAC, it is not that.

 

[Zissou]

It’s true in one sense, as that is the date of the new GM entity created.

Exactly, there is technically a new legal entity but the history, continuity, name, and brands are widely recognized as the continuation of GM.

There is rarely a nerd argument of “my 2009 Corvette is the last model year of the real GM company. The 2010 models are really from a completely different company.”

The current Big East is technically a new legal entity that brought with it assets from the old entity - history, name, logo, MSG contract, etc. The continuity includes membership of Georgetown, Providence, St John’s, seton hall, and Nova (and now UConn with a brief interruption) from the conference’s origins. 6 of the first 8 teams from the original entity are in the current entity.

The entity is just a convenient legal mechanism to navigate the conference split. One part continued as the Big East in a new legal entity. One part continued as the AAC in the old entity.

The current KFC is in an entity that dates back to 1997.

 

[JeepCSC]

No, seriously, stop. This was not a corporate restructuring. It was exactly what that link said it was. A new conference that had to get approval to be created. When Villanova et al left, they had no way of knowing if they could later negotiate to take the name. They simply took the formal steps necessary to leave their league and build a new one.

To wit, Creighton is a founding member of the new Big East.

 

[billybud]

Pretty clear from link...

Another significant hurdle was cleared on Thursday, when the NCAA's Division I Board of Directors met and officially recognized the new Big East Conference as a Division I multisport conference, effective on August 1, 2013. The conference, founded by Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, Xavier, Butler and Creighton, will launch for the 2013-14 academic and athletic year.




The Board similarly noted that the current Big East Conference would become the American Athletic Conference ("The American") on July 1, 2013, clearing the way for the new conference to adopt the Big East name. The American will retain the Big East's permanent seat on the Division I Board of Directors and their three votes.

 

[Zissou]

No question on the legal entity tracking. That’s already explained.

​

​

GM is launching a slate of new products. Can they give a lift to the auto giant as it enters a new era? Will the 'new' GM succeed?

​

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- After a six-week trip through bankruptcy, the "new" General Motors was born Friday owned by the government and free of tens of billions in debt and shed of unaffordable brands, dealerships and plants.
The sale of the valuable assets of the old company to the new GM was completed Friday morning.
"This is an exciting day for General Motors, one that will allow every employee, including me, to get back to the business of designing, building and selling great cars and trucks and serving the needs of our customers," GM Chief Executive Fritz Henderson said.
———
The KFC, Pizza Hut and Taco Bell restaurant chains were spun off by longtime owner PepsiCo Inc. after trading ended today and they now share a new corporate banner, Tricon Global Restaurants Inc.

 

[JeepCSC]

GM went bankrupt and it used a legal loophole to restructure itself. KFC’s corporate owner spun it off into a new company. Neither of those things happened with the Big East.

What happened with the Big East is clear. The Villanova article walks you through it step-by-step. Ten years of wishing and hoping things had happened differently, that the AAC had been the one to leave, don't change the facts. A new league bought the name of the old league. The old league lives on to this day. I am not sure at what point in time “new” became a pejorative to people in this situation, but that is something you’ll have to work on in your own time.

 

[Zissou]

Ten years of wishing and hoping things had happened differently, that the AAC had been the one to leave, don't change the facts.

Jeep, you are the only one saying that. No one else is claiming that the AAC left anything. The conference split.

Also, Jeep has changed entities many times over the years. The current Jeep is part of a new entity as of a year ago.

 

[pepband99]

 

[metsfan2323]

apparently some people have a hard time accepting facts. That's the world we live in I guess.