Big East basketball on FoxSports

[itgoeslike]

I don't think Fox sports 1 or 2, is the issue. I think the Big East is the issue. The link below is from Bleacher Report, but I know that people have tuned in to the fox sports networks to watch UFC content. Maybe, just maybe, people just aren't that enthralled by this version of the Big East to tune in. Its very early, and far from definitive, but I don't think you can point to the Fox Sports Networks as to why the Big East ratings are poor. People have no trouble finding it on their cable provider to watch programming the want to watch like the UFC.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-26-draws-huge-ratings-for-fox-sports-1-debut

I think it's the content. With 1 or 2 exceptions, the ratings leaders in the real Big East were football schools.
The following article was published early this summer. It might be too early to tell but it appears the prophecy is being fulfilled. Keep in mind that the schools that drew poor ratings had the benefit of playing the top rated schools which are longer there.

http://painttouches.com/2013/06/10/bleak-ratings-outlook-for-big-east-and-fox-sports-1/

 

[noeynox]

Again, I agree, but I just think if the Big East games were as desirable, CBB fans would be tuning at a better clip than they have been. Fox sports needed content, and they overpaid for the Big East, I think if the ratings don't become respectable with what ESPN has going on, I don't think they will continue to piss money away. Hell, they could pay the AAC amount next time around, and get more content with football and the like.

 

[noeynox]

Good article Itgoeslike, gave a nice breakdown. We were 25th, in a down year where we had no post season to play for. Interesting.

 

[itgoeslike]

I think it's tough to measure though. Basketball fans go to ESPN. If these Big East games were on ESPN the ratings would be better. If the games on ESPN were on FS1 their ratings would be worse.

Two points;
a: Fox needs to get FS2 on systems. Nobody has it.
B: even with terrible FS ratings it's still better for everyone but Georgetown and Villanova

As for personal tastes I like mid major basketball and local conferences:

I watch AAC, ACC, NEC, America East, MAAC, A-10, Big East. I have a soft spot for MWC - but really can't watch the SEC or Big 12. I don't enjoy Big 10 basketball but see enough to know what's going on.

I actually have a lot of respect for mid majors and follow them as well, and rarely have the patience to watch a South Carolina vs. Mississippi State matchup. In terms of exposure I agree with your assessment, and all have benefitted in terms of revenue. But, I rarely find myself going to FS-1, which could hurt brands like Georgetown, Villanova and even Marquette. And Fox has done a poor job of supporting the content on other channels. Lastly, part of the intrigue with mid majors is the drama that a David vs. Goliath matchup provides. I'll stick around to see if the Vermont Catamounts will knock off Duke. The problem is that weekly match ups of David vs. David are going to have an uphill battle driving traffic or retaining viewers.

 

[baggerbob]

Keeping the Big East name was a big mistake, as they will find out. The name is associated more with the best teams over the past 20 years, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and recently, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati. People will take one look at this new league without all those teams, say who are they kidding, and find something else to watch.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I'm not sure if you think the American looks better of the course. Shrink it to the last 20 years, and all the accomplishments of Cincy and Houston (let alone Temple/SMU) go away.

The BE is diminished too, but, DePaul has more NCAA appearances than the bottom 5 American schools, and Creighton more than all but the top 4. The total number of Titles go to the American, and Final Fours are tied...but it's pretty much UConn and the midgets, as you see when you remove them:

1994-2013


New Big East

Butler – 2 Final Four, 2 E8, 4 S16, 11 NCAAs
Georgetown – 1 Final Four, 2 E8, 5 S16, 12 NCAAs
Villanova – 1 Final Four, 2 E8s, 4 S16s, 12 NCAAs
Marquette – 1 Final Four, 2 E8, 5 S16, 13 NCAAs
Xavier – 2 E8, 5 S16, 14 NCAAs
Providence – 1 E8, 1 S16, 4 NCAAs
St. John’s – 1 E8, 5 NCAAs
Seton Hall - 1 S16, 4 NCAAs
Creighton – 9 NCAAs
DePaul – 2 NCAAs

Over 20 years: 0 Titles, 5 Final Fours, 12 E8s, 26 S16, 8.6 NCAAs per school

American
Connecticut – 3 Titles, 4 Final Four, 8 E8, 11 S16, 15 NCAAs
Memphis – 1 Final Four, 3 E8, 5 S16, 11 NCAAs
Temple – 2 E8, 2 S16, 14 NCAAs
Cincinnati – 1 E8, 3 S16, 15 NCAAs
Tulsa – 1 E8, 3 S16, 8 NCAAs
UCF – 3 NCAAs
Houston – 1 NCAA
USF – 1 NCAA
Tulane – 1 NCAA
East Carolina – 0 NCAAs
SMU – 0 NCAAs

Over 20 years: 3 Titles, 5 Final Fours, 15 E8s, 24 S16, 6.27 NCAAs per school (with one more school)

Without UConn: 0 Titles, 1 Final Four, 7 E8s, 13 S16, 5.4 NCAAs per school

I don't think anyone is arguing that Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple are not solid hoops programs. The drop off after that is enormous. ECU, Tulane, USF, UCF, Houson and Tulsa are years away from being good enough to earn an at large bid, and we are giving SMU the benefit of the doubt because of a 73 year old coach. It is very realistic that multiple schools from this group will finish outside the top 200, and it is unlikely more than 1 will finish inside the Top 100 this season. These are bad mid-majors.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Keeping the Big East name was a big mistake, as they will find out. The name is associated more with the best teams over the past 20 years, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and recently, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati. People will take one look at this new league without all those teams, say who are they kidding, and find something else to watch.

LOL. Outside of UConn and Syracuse, people won't care. Louisville was only in the league for a few years. The Big East is big city basketball. It is St. Johns and Villanova and Georgetown. It is even Marquette. Do you think anyone but fans of those two skills thinks 2 seconds about Pitt or WVU? Those two programs are learning the hard way just how hard it is to recruit when you aren't playing 2-3 games in the NY metro area any more.

 

[upstater]

I guess the way I look at it is... Pretty much every team in the Big East is happy to be in the league. Pretty much every team in the AAC would set themselves on fire to get out.

You should visit the AAC board once linked to here. Outside of Cincy and UConn, they are psyched to be in the AAC. The attitude of the Memphis fan posting on our bball board is common over there. Conversely, if you go to HoyaTalk, the G'town fans are looking for a way out. They are not happy to be there.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think it's the content. With 1 or 2 exceptions, the ratings leaders in the real Big East were football schools.
The following article was published early this summer. It might be too early to tell but it appears the prophecy is being fulfilled. Keep in mind that the schools that drew poor ratings had the benefit of playing the top rated schools which are longer there.

http://painttouches.com/2013/06/10/bleak-ratings-outlook-for-big-east-and-fox-sports-1/

There is always a difficulty in reading raw ratings data because we don't know network or how much was on simultaneously. I suspect Big Monday outdraws games later in the week because there is not a lot of competition on Mondays.

Digging deeper into the data, something looks wrong. The Big 10 dominates the list, which would not be shocking by itself, except that Minnesota is a Top 10 ratings winner, and there are not nearly enough Big 10 games represented in the list. So I suspect that only certain networks, such as ESPN, CBS and ABC, are included. It also doesn't reflect the relative value of certain markets. How much is a .8 with a heavy NY viewership worth compared to a .9 out of Missouri?

The Big 10 gets a lot of CBS and ABC, which will drive their numbers. If the BTN is left out of the numbers, it is artificially putting the Big 10's best foot forward without dinging them for the mid season Illinois/Northwestern matchup on the BTN that draws a .1.

The Pac 12's numbers are atrocious, as they always are when any kind of ratings analysis is done.

 

[upstater]

There is always a difficulty in reading raw ratings data because we don't know network or how much was on simultaneously. I suspect Big Monday outdraws games later in the week because there is not a lot of competition on Mondays.

Digging deeper into the data, something looks wrong. The Big 10 dominates the list, which would not be shocking by itself, except that Minnesota is a Top 10 ratings winner, and there are not nearly enough Big 10 games represented in the list. So I suspect that only certain networks, such as ESPN, CBS and ABC, are included. It also doesn't reflect the relative value of certain markets. How much is a .8 with a heavy NY viewership worth compared to a .9 out of Missouri?

The Big 10 gets a lot of CBS and ABC, which will drive their numbers. If the BTN is left out of the numbers, it is artificially putting the Big 10's best foot forward without dinging them for the mid season Illinois/Northwestern matchup on the BTN that draws a .1.

The Pac 12's numbers are atrocious, as they always are when any kind of ratings analysis is done.

Son of the Bronx has the weekly numbers. I've been posting them. No matter how you cut it, the BE ratings are far far far behind the AAC on ESPN so far.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Son of the Bronx has the weekly numbers. I've been posting them. No matter how you cut it, the BE ratings are far far far behind the AAC on ESPN so far.

I missed the ratings for Tulane, ECU's, Houston's, Tulsa's, USF's and UCF's nationally televised games. Can you please provide those?

 

[upstater]

I missed the ratings for Tulane, ECU's, Houston's, Tulsa's, USF's and UCF's nationally televised games. Can you please provide those?

UConn has great ratings.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

UConn has great ratings.

So you are comparing a handful of nationally televised UConn games to basically the entire Big East broadcast schedule as evidence that the AAC is a better conference than the Big East? Stellar analysis.

 

[upstater]

So you are comparing a handful of nationally televised UConn games to basically the entire Big East broadcast schedule as evidence that the AAC is a better conference than the Big East? Stellar analysis.

I'm discussing UConn and that's it. You constantly are adding things that people never said. But I am using UConn's ratings to show how UConn is in a much better situation than being in BE oblivion. And it's not just the big games, but even the BC game did 5x better (600k viewers) than the top BE games on Fox. And the BE has had some games when their top guns took on P5 teams as formidable as Maryland and the like. No one watched them though.

 

[whaler11]

You should visit the AAC board once linked to here. Outside of Cincy and UConn, they are psyched to be in the AAC. The attitude of the Memphis fan posting on our bball board is common over there. Conversely, if you go to HoyaTalk, the G'town fans are looking for a way out. They are not happy to be there.

You are probably right. The AAC is probably an upgrade from Conference USA for the newcomers. Still their fans would love another invite while the Big East schools know they are at their pinnacle.

 

[tzznandrew]

You are probably right. The AAC is probably an upgrade from Conference USA for the newcomers. Still their fans would love another invite while the Big East schools know they are at their pinnacle.

It's a huge upgrade, in that they lose some of their worst teams (although they carry over Tulsa and Tulane), and gain UConn, Cincy, and Temple. The league is more akin to Conference USA from roughly 1999-2005.

 

[whaler11]

It's a huge upgrade, in that they lose some of their worst teams (although they carry over Tulsa and Tulane), and gain UConn, Cincy, and Temple. The league is more akin to Conference USA from roughly 1999-2005.

But Memphis, UCF and Houston allowed it to be watered down with Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. Should have gone with 8-9.

 

[upstater]

But Memphis, UCF and Houston allowed it to be watered down with Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. Should have gone with 8-9.

I thought 10 was perfect. No idea why they're hung up on a championship game for football.

 

[tzznandrew]

But Memphis, UCF and Houston allowed it to be watered down with Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. Should have gone with 8-9.

Agreed. Although ECU was pretty decent last year (18 regular season wins, 23 after winning the awful CIT), and are 6-2 this year (good loss against Duke, terrible loss to Wilmington). They're a better addition than Tulsa and Tulane. This isn't saying much, but it's true.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Tulsa and Tulane were terrible ideas. Tulsa tries, but it is one of the smallest FBS schools and shares a state the size of Connecticut with two top programs. It has been a long time since Tulsa was good in hoops. Tulane is not even trying. Other than fun road trips for the 50 or so fans that want to spend $1,000 to see UConn play Tulane, there was no reason to add that school.

 

[itgoeslike]

There is always a difficulty in reading raw ratings data because we don't know network or how much was on simultaneously. I suspect Big Monday outdraws games later in the week because there is not a lot of competition on Mondays.

Digging deeper into the data, something looks wrong. The Big 10 dominates the list, which would not be shocking by itself, except that Minnesota is a Top 10 ratings winner, and there are not nearly enough Big 10 games represented in the list. So I suspect that only certain networks, such as ESPN, CBS and ABC, are included. It also doesn't reflect the relative value of certain markets. How much is a .8 with a heavy NY viewership worth compared to a .9 out of Missouri?

The Big 10 gets a lot of CBS and ABC, which will drive their numbers. If the BTN is left out of the numbers, it is artificially putting the Big 10's best foot forward without dinging them for the mid season Illinois/Northwestern matchup on the BTN that draws a .1.

The Pac 12's numbers are atrocious, as they always are when any kind of ratings analysis is done.

The data is based on nationally televised games so we can draw some conclusions in terms of ratings (without considering markets and share). For more detail, this article references Big Apple Buckets, which references the Sports Media Watch article (below).

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/201...-2-numbers-for-the-second-half-of-the-season/

The Minnesota numbers make perfect sense. Minnesota benefits from playing Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc., which illustrates the impact that highly rated opponents can have. This "dependency" is why NBE will be affected in an adverse way by not playing ratings leaders such as Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Cincinatti, PITT, etc. UCONN will also be affected somewhat, but they will have a fairly decent presence on ESPN with a fair amount of high profile games.

 

[whaler11]

I thought 10 was perfect. No idea why they're hung up on a championship game for football.

10 for football with Navy and 9 for basketball was the right number. East Carolina football was worth their basketball program.

 

[zls44]

Update: every CBB game on FS1 Saturday rated under 0.05

 

[noeynox]

Z, what does that actually mean in terms of number of people that actually watched the games?

 

[tzznandrew]

Z, what does that actually mean in terms of number of people that actually watched the games?

Something like 57,000 households, right? That's pretty embarrasing.

Comparison (slightly unfair, different sports), our 3-9 (once 0-9) football team averaged 685,200 households...