BiG CR articles

[buddy]

Yeah, Buddy.

Outside the Lines is a fluff show.

It's the sports equivalent of 60 Minutes and has been a staple of ESPN Sunday Morning for 23 years. Do you know how many peoples' Sundays begin with OTL, Sports Reporters and the 1.5 hour Live SportsCenter? You can't count that high...That's called exposure. When the goal is to gain AAU status, increase the endowment and gain a Big Ten invite, being mentioned on OTL in a research capacity is huge. How do you know there are no plans? How do know Warde Manuel isn't playing lip service?

Conference realignment is a fluid situation. Louisville was tabbed by the ACC not because of Tom Zurich vs. Warde Manuel, per se. Manuel and Herbst had already put their best foot forward. Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville, who went on to win the Orange Bowl and reach the College World Series. There was something else as well...oh yeah...They made 2 Final 4s and won the Men's Basketball National Championship!!! UConn was coming off probation...

I wrote the following in another thread regarding UConn and the ACC:

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

 

[NickyNewark]

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

I think the B1Gs plan was to use Md as a bridge to Va/NC after taking big chunks out of the Midatlantic and Balt/DC demo's then see where they stand!As far as UConn I think the B1G see's them as the next eastern(and last) along with a southern/western partner to appease the western wing!Have patience it's far from over IMO!!Remember due to the NY/NJ demo of which UConn and FF county are part of we are contigenous their probably talking timetable for AAU as we handwring!?!

 

[billybud]

Maryland was the Big Ten's opening bid...the hope, I think was, that the ACC would crumble and that the B1G could pick up some pieces like perhaps Virgina, UNC, or even GT,

And I believe that the B1G over bid that hand when they could not tease out the hand when the ACC stood firm.

 

[billybud]

There are only so many teams that are well positioned for being picked up if there is more expansion.

UConn......positioned well for a B1G consolidation of the east, for a Big 12 eastern partner for WVU and Cincy, or a pairing with a southern team like USF for the ACC.

USF......positioned for an ACC pick up to add a southern team for balance, for the Big 12 if they desire a Florida presence.

Cincy......positioned for a Big 12 pick up as an eastern partner

BYU/Boise....western partners for the Big 12 if they decide not to go completely east in expansion

 

[Vowelguy]

So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind.

Dunno why this is so difficult to comprehend.

• NO national reputation in football.
• After a decent start, the FB program has taken a step backwards, leading to concerns that it has maxed out.
• A weak local recruiting base.
• Mediocre football stadium, and no NFL stadium as a substitute.
• A local TV market that is on the decline, and with poor demographics (ie, few young males - the coveted demo).
• Strong opposition from BC, FSU, Clemson, Syracuse for ACC
• Not strong enough research-wise [yet] for Big10

 

[Husky25]

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

That's not what I said. I said it was not the primary reason, but it did not hurt the ACC's justification to tab Louisville over UConn. Louisville's accomplishments came after they were selected.

I said:

"Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville..."

 

[Stinger92860]

Dunno why this is so difficult to comprehend.

• 
  [ ]A local TV market that is on the decline, and with poor demographics (ie, few young males - the coveted demo).

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

 

[Vowelguy]

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

Connecticut, along with most of the North, is slow-growing and aging. Do you really doubt that?

• Connecticut's markets are all losing ground to other parts of the country. As an example: the Hartford MSA was 38th largest in 1990. It was 44th in 2010. New Haven went 53->60th, and Fairfield Cty 51->56th.
• And the population skews old. The percent of CT's population that is age 20-40 is ~ fourth lowest in the country.

 

[NickyNewark]

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

Im pretty sure FF Cty has about 1M people or just under a third of Connecticuts population and most have close ties with NYC!Not to mention actually being a part of the NY/NJ demo!

 

[Stinger92860]

Connecticut, along with most of the North, is slow-growing and aging. Do you really doubt that?

• 
  [ ]Connecticut's markets are all losing ground to other parts of the country. As an example: the Hartford MSA was 38th largest in 1990. It was 44th in 2010. New Haven went 53->60th, and Fairfield Cty 51->56th.
  
  [ ]And the population skews old. The percent of CT's population that is age 20-40 is ~ fourth lowest in the country.

[/

Edit: yes I see thstbgrowthnare lower than other area but the northeast is still growing. Regardless of msa ct still has the number 30th ranked dma and that does not include Fairfield. The north has some of the largest metro areas in the county and is notbthevrust belt everyone thinks it to be.

 

[Vowelguy]

This does not correlate to existing dma statistics. Yes I doubt this. Can you link info?

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

 

[Stinger92860]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

Take a look and we are still growing, yes at lower rates. Also take into account per capita income. Do you really think Fairfield county is dying? Stamford is bursting at the seams with 20 to 40' same in NYC. There are people and money here, that's why there is the Burt and the shenk. The jobs here can pay well above other areas of the country, it's different jobs than 20 pr 30 years ago.

I'll say again, add Fairfield to the Hartford dma and we are 20/21. That commands value, for advertising rates.

 

[upstater]

Im pretty sure FF Cty has about 1M people or just under a third of Connecticuts population and most have close ties with NYC!Not to mention actually being a part of the NY/NJ demo!

How many of those people are long time Connecticut residents with close ties "to NYC?" My brother is in Westport and has been working in NYC for two decades now. Long time Connecticut resident, big UConn fan. A few houses around him had UConn flags.

 

[upstater]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

You're not taking into account per capita income.

Here we're discussing low pop. growth and in 1/3rd of the state, $500k to $1m gets you a 1300 sq. foot cape house.

How many Americans could possibly afford that?

 

[Sea Goat]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

Yo AEIOU,

How was the MSA or DMA around Syracuse (central NY) measured? You want to talk about decline? Check that out - and please spare me the BS that Syracuse brings NYC!

Ever been to Syracuse? Oh, yea - for class. I have and to Buffalo too! I spent a week in Syracuse one day. Syracuse makes Hartford look like Paris.

 

[upstater]

Yo AEIOU,

How was the MSA or DMA around Syracuse (central NY) measured? You want to talk about decline? Check that out - and please spare me the BS that Syracuse brings NYC!

Ever been to Syracuse? Oh, yea - for class. I have and to Buffalo too! I spent a week in Syracuse one day. Syracuse makes Hartford look like Paris.

Eh. Buffalo blows away Hartford.

 

[Vowelguy]

CT's decent size and high per capita income are plusses to be sure.
But folks talk about it like its a slam dunk, when it's not. The low percentage of young males is a negative. And for conferences looking long term, the fact that it's an area that is losing share is a concern.

Syracuse has the same problem. But I listed _7_ bullet points that work against UConn. It is the combination of all of them that has doomed UConn so far. And if that's not the reason, then I'd love to hear what it is, other than "it's those evil ESPN guys" faux excuse.

 

[Sea Goat]

Eh. Buffalo blows away Hartford.

Buffalo makes Syracuse look like Paris.

 

[Hoophound]

Buffalo isn't bad. However, I get sick of people picking on Hartford. Greater Hartford is great. It gets a bad wrap because Hartford proper is underachieving. Most cities are geographically huge compared to Hartford and many of the good areas are outlying parts of those cities.

If West Hartford and Glastonbury were part of Hartford people would say Hartford is a nice city. It's a stupid argument.

 

[NickyNewark]

How many of those people are long time Connecticut residents with close ties "to NYC?" My brother is in Westport and has been working in NYC for two decades now. Long time Connecticut resident, big UConn fan. A few houses around him had UConn flags.

I was alluding to the fact UConn has loads of fans in the NYC demo and was influential and relevant in NYC demo not that they have to be born there(Conn)?And what difference would it make?I'm a NY/NJ guy and I like UConn!I think you misread my intent?

 

[NickyNewark]

Buffalo isn't bad. However, I get sick of people picking on Hartford. Greater Hartford is great. It gets a bad wrap because Hartford proper is underachieving. Most cities are geographically huge compared to Hartford and many of the good areas are outlying parts of those cities.

If West Hartford and Glastonbury were part of Hartford people would say Hartford is a nice city. It's a stupid argument.

I remember people making jokes about Hoboken,NJ now look at it!When I was in my 20s (70s)it was as hopeless looking as Camden,NJ and in almost no time its become chic!

 

[Sea Goat]

I remember people making jokes about Hoboken,NJ now look at it!When I was in my 20s (70s)it was as hopeless looking as Camden,NJ and in almost no time its become chic!

Camden does not come back! Wanna bet?

 

[upstater]

I was alluding to the fact UConn has loads of fans in the NYC demo and was influential and relevant in NYC demo not that they have to be born there(Conn)?And what difference would it make?I'm a NY/NJ guy and I like UConn!I think you misread my intent?

I may have misread your intent. I thought you were saying that this part of the state is a NYC suburb with rooting interests in NYC. I pointed out that a lot of nutmeggers live there. No doubt it also has a ton of transplants with little interest in Connecticut, but not the majority.

 

[Vowelguy]

Buffalo isn't bad. However, I get sick of people picking on Hartford. Greater Hartford is great. It gets a bad wrap because Hartford proper is underachieving. Most cities are geographically huge compared to Hartford and many of the good areas are outlying parts of those cities.

Providence is the same size and is much, much nicer following a major transformation over the last 20 years.

 

[Sea Goat]

Providence is the same size and is much, much nicer following a major transformation over the last 20 years.

The problem with Providence is that it is in Rhode Island.