BiG CR articles

[Sea Goat]

Neither...I am old enough to have encountered Grantland Rice's sports poetry and I could easily google the lines....He may be a little florid for this day and time...but his images of the Four Horsemen outlined against a gray sky, his Casey at the Bat, were very familiar to my dad...and thus to me.

I am the product of a Alabama southern belle and a Michigan grad....my dad and I watched football for many years. It was the common language in which we could communicate without argument. I am not a Big Ten fan, but to this day I cheer against Ohio State in his memory and raise a glass to the old man. I miss him.

And the Wolverines still hold a substantial edge. My favorite era was the "Ten year war" when Hayes and Schembechler went mano a mano. Of course, the 2006 game was pretty big, too!

 

[jbdphi]

More like there is Princeton, Harvard and Yale and then everyone else in the Ivy League. All good in certain areas and better than most every other school, but not in the elite 3 category. But we are talking merely about how they as a group chose to compete in intercollegiate sports, especially football. From 1900 until 1954 (when the Ivy League was formed), Ivy Teams shared or won 33 national championships, with Yale (8), Harvard (7), Princeton (7) and Cornell (5) leading the way. These schools all had big time football reputations before Knute Rockne ever asked his team to "win one for the Gipper".

And Cornell could have had one more I'm sure but I wasn't around back then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1940)

 

[buddy]

Post like this re-enforce the fact that The Boneyard does not and should not have a Thumbs Down or Unlike button. I would register a second name just to Unlike this post twice.[/quote
I guess the truth hurts. You can unlike all you want, but the facts remain. All the rumors and wishful thinking posted on this board don't mean squat. The ACC didn't want UConn and UConn wanted the ACC. That is a fact that cannot be denied.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That's my alma mater buddy so tread lightly. We're used to being called one of the lowest leaves of the Ivy but I'll be damned if we're looked down upon by any B1G school...

I would never make fun of Cornell, primarily because I can’t remember anything about the 3 or 4 weekend road trips I made there to visit friends at Cornell and Ithaca.

 

[RioDog]

Like a lot of older guys, I like to wax nostalgic.

Grantland Rice had the best nostalgic view of old time football.....And I always think of it when I think of the past of Ivy football.

I remember the stand at Thermopylae​

The Greek Guard made one day;
I remember the legions that Caesar used
To shatter the Gallic sway;

And I remember across the years
Two banners that crowned the crest,
When Yale was king of the conquered East,
And Michigan ruled the West.

At night in my humble den I dream
Of the glories that used to be
Of Hannibal taking the Alpine Trail,
Of Drake on the open sea;

And then I wander the ancient ways
To dream a dream I love the best,
When Yale was king of the conquered East,
And Michigan ruled the West.

First time I've read that...wow. I humbly say thank you for that gem.

 

[Gurleyman]

I would never make fun of Cornell, primarily because I can’t remember anything about the 3 or 4 weekend road trips I made there to visit friends at Cornell and Ithaca.

Any school who's fight song's lyrics are sung from the perspective of a student being expelled for excessive drinking, but vowing to return and drink some more, well - that school is OK by me.

 

[Sea Goat]

And Cornell could have had one more I'm sure but I wasn't around back then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1940)[/quote]

That is a great story. Cornell had won 18 games in a row over 2 seasons and was reigning national champion when they forfeited the game after learning of the ref's mistake?
Do you remember Colorado getting 5 downs vs. Mizzou in 1990 and NOT FORFEITING THE GAME? Colorado won the national championship that year although all I remember is the fifth down they got against Mizzou! I guess the Ivies put things in perspective and do the right thing.

 

[uconnfan68]

'buddy's post' reply:
Let's be clear, there were some factions of the ACC that didn't want us, and they apparently had more sway than the faction that did want us. In my opinion, it's the ACC's loss. If Swofford really wanted to sew up the east coast, he should have kept Maryland, and taken Rutgers and UConn, instead of Pitt and UL.

 

[Sea Goat]

Any school who's fight song's lyrics are sung from the perspective of a student being expelled for excessive drinking, but vowing to return and drink some more, well - that school is OK by me.

Cornell's fight song apparently is "Give my regards to Davy" sung to the tune of "Give my regards to Broadway".
It applies to many of us...

The original and best known lyrics:
Give my regards to Davy,
Remember me to Tee Fee Crane.
Tell all the pikers on the Hill
That I'll be back again.
Tell them just how I busted
Lapping up the high highball.
We'll all have drinks at Theodore Zinck's
When I get back next fall

 

[upstater]

Unlikely to leave SEC, but in addition to getting the sh t getting kicked out of them on the SEC football field a move to the B1G is not out of the question as more importantly there's also the CIC money that the B1G cache brings with it.

There is really barely any CIC money. It's like 10-15 million for 14 schools.

 

[UConn Dan]

There is really barely any CIC money. It's like 10-15 million for 14 schools.

I know some say the CIC benefit is not a big deal, but don't they control something like 10-15% of all federal research dollars? For 14 schools out of 3,000, that sounds pretty good to me. Maybe I'm missing something and it's the schools themselves that are already the top benefactors of research grants - CIC or not. I'm not an expert -- I just always thought it was a big deal.

 

[Husky25]

Yeah, Buddy.

Outside the Lines is a fluff show.

It's the sports equivalent of 60 Minutes and has been a staple of ESPN Sunday Morning for 23 years. Do you know how many peoples' Sundays begin with OTL, Sports Reporters and the 1.5 hour Live SportsCenter? You can't count that high...That's called exposure. When the goal is to gain AAU status, increase the endowment and gain a Big Ten invite, being mentioned on OTL in a research capacity is huge. How do you know there are no plans? How do know Warde Manuel isn't playing lip service?

Conference realignment is a fluid situation. Louisville was tabbed by the ACC not because of Tom Zurich vs. Warde Manuel, per se. Manuel and Herbst had already put their best foot forward. Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville, who went on to win the Orange Bowl and reach the College World Series. There was something else as well...oh yeah...They made 2 Final 4s and won the Men's Basketball National Championship!!! UConn was coming off probation...

I wrote the following in another thread regarding UConn and the ACC:

I think that ship has sailed. I think UConn is aiming higher than the Artist Formerly Known as the Big East (errr...ACC North). And no one can blame them! ACC members have been leading UConn on for so long as it is.

I think if (and more likely when) the time comes for the ACC actually extends a bona fide invite - instead of the handshake with a buzzer - , the higher ups at UConn will go through back channels to the Big Ten. If the Big Ten offers, UConn jumps. If the Big Ten doesn't, UConn takes the consolation prize. Albeit, I'm a bit jaded at this point, but this remains my best guess and hope...Since UConn was left out of the Pittsburgh/Syracuse expansion, I've been ready to say F* the ACC.

 

[upstater]

I know some say the CIC benefit is not a big deal, but don't they control something like 10-15% of all federal research dollars? For 14 schools out of 3,000, that sounds pretty good to me. Maybe I'm missing something and it's the schools themselves that are already the top benefactors of research grants - CIC or not. I'm not an expert -- I just always thought it was a big deal.

It's the schools that get the money, not the CIC. The CIC is a pretty limited entity, but that $10m is nothing to sneeze at. Schools partner to bring in $750k per school, and that's real money, especially when the fungible budgets are in the range of $100m to $200m. But no school is going to lose $100m from its athletic budget so that it can make $750k in research more per year.

 

[Husky25]

The ESPN produced "fluff show," a.k.a. Outside the Lines had a puff piece on this morning was about concussions in the NFL and the Dr. who was unqualified to preside over the commission studying their effect.

It probably wins OTL another Emmy.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Yeah, Buddy.

Outside the Lines is a fluff show.

It's the sports equivalent of 60 Minutes and has been a staple of ESPN Sunday Morning for 23 years. Do you know how many peoples' Sundays begin with OTL, Sports Reporters and the 1.5 hour Live SportsCenter? You can't count that high...That's called exposure. When the goal is to gain AAU status, increase the endowment and gain a Big Ten invite, being mentioned on OTL in a research capacity is huge. How do you know there are no plans? How do know Warde Manuel isn't playing lip service?

Conference realignment is a fluid situation. Louisville was tabbed by the ACC not because of Tom Zurich vs. Warde Manuel, per se. Manuel and Herbst had already put their best foot forward. Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville, who went on to win the Orange Bowl and reach the College World Series. There was something else as well...oh yeah...They made 2 Final 4s and won the Men's Basketball National Championship!!! UConn was coming off probation...

I wrote the following in another thread regarding UConn and the ACC:

As my late mother use to say as I lamented about some kid not wanting to play with me. " Why would you ever want to play with someone who obviously doesn't want to include you ?"
That's pretty much the way I feel about the ACC.

 

[buddy]

Yeah, Buddy.

Outside the Lines is a fluff show.

It's the sports equivalent of 60 Minutes and has been a staple of ESPN Sunday Morning for 23 years. Do you know how many peoples' Sundays begin with OTL, Sports Reporters and the 1.5 hour Live SportsCenter? You can't count that high...That's called exposure. When the goal is to gain AAU status, increase the endowment and gain a Big Ten invite, being mentioned on OTL in a research capacity is huge. How do you know there are no plans? How do know Warde Manuel isn't playing lip service?

Conference realignment is a fluid situation. Louisville was tabbed by the ACC not because of Tom Zurich vs. Warde Manuel, per se. Manuel and Herbst had already put their best foot forward. Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville, who went on to win the Orange Bowl and reach the College World Series. There was something else as well...oh yeah...They made 2 Final 4s and won the Men's Basketball National Championship!!! UConn was coming off probation...

I wrote the following in another thread regarding UConn and the ACC:

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

 

[NickyNewark]

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

I think the B1Gs plan was to use Md as a bridge to Va/NC after taking big chunks out of the Midatlantic and Balt/DC demo's then see where they stand!As far as UConn I think the B1G see's them as the next eastern(and last) along with a southern/western partner to appease the western wing!Have patience it's far from over IMO!!Remember due to the NY/NJ demo of which UConn and FF county are part of we are contigenous their probably talking timetable for AAU as we handwring!?!

 

[billybud]

Maryland was the Big Ten's opening bid...the hope, I think was, that the ACC would crumble and that the B1G could pick up some pieces like perhaps Virgina, UNC, or even GT,

And I believe that the B1G over bid that hand when they could not tease out the hand when the ACC stood firm.

 

[billybud]

There are only so many teams that are well positioned for being picked up if there is more expansion.

UConn......positioned well for a B1G consolidation of the east, for a Big 12 eastern partner for WVU and Cincy, or a pairing with a southern team like USF for the ACC.

USF......positioned for an ACC pick up to add a southern team for balance, for the Big 12 if they desire a Florida presence.

Cincy......positioned for a Big 12 pick up as an eastern partner

BYU/Boise....western partners for the Big 12 if they decide not to go completely east in expansion

 

[Vowelguy]

So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind.

Dunno why this is so difficult to comprehend.

• NO national reputation in football.
• After a decent start, the FB program has taken a step backwards, leading to concerns that it has maxed out.
• A weak local recruiting base.
• Mediocre football stadium, and no NFL stadium as a substitute.
• A local TV market that is on the decline, and with poor demographics (ie, few young males - the coveted demo).
• Strong opposition from BC, FSU, Clemson, Syracuse for ACC
• Not strong enough research-wise [yet] for Big10

 

[Husky25]

I appreciate your level headed reply. However, I believe the following: ESPN has not assisted UConn in any way is getting out of the mid majors, and actually may have thwarted any hopes of relevance in the future. The best foot forward of our leaders was clearly not a good foot. You seem to say that Louisville's athletic success secured them the ACC spot. Yet..neither Pitt nor Syracuse have had anything to brag about over many years, and they are in. The Syracuse basketball championship came with Carmelo. Otherwise they have been dismal failures. So I don't see how athletic success has anything to do with getting into a power conference. The other example is Rutgers and Maryland who have also been pretty bad. The previous rationale of the ACC during the BC-Miami poach of academics we now know to be untrue given Louisville's less than stellar academic standing. So, I am dumbfounded as to how UConn has been left behind. My comment reflected frustration with speculators who know nothing. If the B1G is interested in UConn, why didn't they take them instead of Maryland, who has a bankrupt athletic department, was to face a major payout to the ACC instead, when UConn would have gotten to them with no expense at all! That is why I believe that if anyone wanted UConn they would have taken them by now.

That's not what I said. I said it was not the primary reason, but it did not hurt the ACC's justification to tab Louisville over UConn. Louisville's accomplishments came after they were selected.

I said:

"Louisville was tabbed because of a number of factors already detailed on this board (1. BCs continual smear campaign. 2. FSUs travel concerns, 3. FSUs potential defection. Another prevailing rumor was that the Big XII was pursuing Louisville. If the ACC offered to UConn like they had already hinted, they would lose Louisville..."

 

[Stinger92860]

Dunno why this is so difficult to comprehend.

• 
  [ ]A local TV market that is on the decline, and with poor demographics (ie, few young males - the coveted demo).

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

 

[Vowelguy]

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

Connecticut, along with most of the North, is slow-growing and aging. Do you really doubt that?

• Connecticut's markets are all losing ground to other parts of the country. As an example: the Hartford MSA was 38th largest in 1990. It was 44th in 2010. New Haven went 53->60th, and Fairfield Cty 51->56th.
• And the population skews old. The percent of CT's population that is age 20-40 is ~ fourth lowest in the country.

 

[NickyNewark]

I would like to see the numbers and facts to back up that statement. Considering that Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma, I am curious to better understand your position. The Hartford-New Haven-Springfield dma is number 30. If you added in Fairfield county we would be about 20/21. Not Everyone here in Fairfield County is retired.

Im pretty sure FF Cty has about 1M people or just under a third of Connecticuts population and most have close ties with NYC!Not to mention actually being a part of the NY/NJ demo!

 

[Stinger92860]

Connecticut, along with most of the North, is slow-growing and aging. Do you really doubt that?

• 
  [ ]Connecticut's markets are all losing ground to other parts of the country. As an example: the Hartford MSA was 38th largest in 1990. It was 44th in 2010. New Haven went 53->60th, and Fairfield Cty 51->56th.
  
  [ ]And the population skews old. The percent of CT's population that is age 20-40 is ~ fourth lowest in the country.

[/

Edit: yes I see thstbgrowthnare lower than other area but the northeast is still growing. Regardless of msa ct still has the number 30th ranked dma and that does not include Fairfield. The north has some of the largest metro areas in the county and is notbthevrust belt everyone thinks it to be.

 

[Vowelguy]

This does not correlate to existing dma statistics. Yes I doubt this. Can you link info?

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

 

[Stinger92860]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

Take a look and we are still growing, yes at lower rates. Also take into account per capita income. Do you really think Fairfield county is dying? Stamford is bursting at the seams with 20 to 40' same in NYC. There are people and money here, that's why there is the Burt and the shenk. The jobs here can pay well above other areas of the country, it's different jobs than 20 pr 30 years ago.

I'll say again, add Fairfield to the Hartford dma and we are 20/21. That commands value, for advertising rates.

 

[upstater]

Im pretty sure FF Cty has about 1M people or just under a third of Connecticuts population and most have close ties with NYC!Not to mention actually being a part of the NY/NJ demo!

How many of those people are long time Connecticut residents with close ties "to NYC?" My brother is in Westport and has been working in NYC for two decades now. Long time Connecticut resident, big UConn fan. A few houses around him had UConn flags.

 

[upstater]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

You're not taking into account per capita income.

Here we're discussing low pop. growth and in 1/3rd of the state, $500k to $1m gets you a 1300 sq. foot cape house.

How many Americans could possibly afford that?

 

[Sea Goat]

I used MSAs, not DMAs, since I had those at hand.
But the level is unimportant; the issue is growth. It is indisputable that CT is a slow grower and is falling in the rankings.

Yo AEIOU,

How was the MSA or DMA around Syracuse (central NY) measured? You want to talk about decline? Check that out - and please spare me the BS that Syracuse brings NYC!

Ever been to Syracuse? Oh, yea - for class. I have and to Buffalo too! I spent a week in Syracuse one day. Syracuse makes Hartford look like Paris.