Beer

[auror]

The only person I've interacted with in that group was their sales director, and he was highly competent. He'll land on his feet.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm not rooting for it, but I have been expecting it as a natural part of the business life cycle.

Especially in this industry where it has a relative ease of entry.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I'm not rooting for it, but I have been expecting it as a natural part of the business life cycle. The craft brew scene went through one competitive shakeout around 20 years ago, and in the past ten years it roared back. Another competitive shakeout was inevitable imo, especially with so many mediocre beers.

Wineries are an entirely different scene and market, and most of the "local" ones in areas not known for wine making are vanity projects for millionaires and don't need to be profitable.

Ok, I think craft breweries are for lack of a better term, a 'bro' man's version of the winery vanity project. Yet again so is a restaurant or any other specialty store.
In recent travels for business I think its fun to drop into the trendy local brewery and see if it is any good, sometimes it is, sometimes eh.. I recently did this at Cigar City in Tampa which was both very good and astoundingly affordable especially in comparison to Trillium which is the most accessible brewery for me in Boston & burbs.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

And the losers will be the mediocre craft breweries and those that haven’t adapted at all to popular styles. Stony Creek is in that category for sure.

I think things will sort into:
1. Macro
2. Imports (some are Macro...Corona etc.)
3. Volume, cheap craft. Sam, Harpoon, Lagunitas, Sierra Nevada...
4. Strong quality craft, which is mostly on premise and sometimes distributed.

For the life of me I don’t understand why some of these breweries haven’t made adjustments. There will always be room for category 3 because that’s what we beer enthusiasts need to drink at our neighbor’s parties etc in place of Bud Light. But there isn’t room for 2000 brands there.

I actually think lower tier category 3 is in the toughest spot. I don’t know the last time I saw someone drinking Long Trail for example. Harpoon has done well reinventing themselves and there is certainly a market for the various UFOs.

I think true small microbrews will be fine as long as they make good beer. Stony Creek is in a weird in between. Much larger than your average neighborhood brewery but smaller than Two Roads right by and not as good as most other small CT brewers. Two Roads has pretty large distribution and is borderline category 3 at this point.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I actually think lower tier category 3 is in the toughest spot. I don’t know the last time I saw someone drinking Long Trail for example. Harpoon has done well reinventing themselves and there is certainly a market for the various UFOs.

I think true small microbrews will be fine as long as they make good beer. Stony Creek is in a weird in between. Much larger than your average neighborhood brewery but smaller than Two Roads right by and not as good as most other small CT brewers. Two Roads has pretty large distribution and is borderline category 3 at this point.

Actually Long Trail has some good beers including a solid VT IPA. But Magic Hat sucks. Saranac etc. I guess my point is if you are pushing $16-20 4 packs at retail you better be making something at least close to the on premise places like Trillium. Good examples, Toppling Goliath, Finback and Singlecut. I see a ton of 16 Oz stuff on shelves from new places that is crap. Some utterly flawed and some just at the level of Sam Rebel. Lagunitas has been smart. They are top tier category 3 but not expensive. The days when Ballast Point Sculpin can be priced at the top of the range are over.

 

[superjohn]

I'm not rooting for it, but I have been expecting it as a natural part of the business life cycle. The craft brew scene went through one competitive shakeout around 20 years ago, and in the past ten years it roared back. Another competitive shakeout was inevitable imo, especially with so many mediocre beers.

Wineries are an entirely different scene and market, and most of the "local" ones in areas not known for wine making are vanity projects for millionaires and don't need to be profitable.

And if you're outside of California/Pacific Northwest and Reislings in NY State the wine pretty much sucks. You can get really good local beer anywhere in the country.

 

[superjohn]

Actually Long Trail has some good beers including a solid VT IPA. But Magic Hat sucks. Saranac etc. I guess my point is if you are pushing $16-20 4 packs at retail you better be making something at least close to the on premise places like Trillium. Good examples, Toppling Goliath, Finback and Singlecut. I see a ton of 16 Oz stuff on shelves from new places that is crap. Some utterly flawed and some just at the level of Sam Rebel. Lagunitas has been smart. They are top tier category 3 but not expensive. The days when Ballast Point Sculpin can be priced at the top of the range are over.

You pay $20 for 4 packs?

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

You pay $20 for 4 packs?

$18 is pretty typical for top notch on premise only stuff

 

[methodology]

I actually think lower tier category 3 is in the toughest spot. I don’t know the last time I saw someone drinking Long Trail for example. Harpoon has done well reinventing themselves and there is certainly a market for the various UFOs.

I think true small microbrews will be fine as long as they make good beer. Stony Creek is in a weird in between. Much larger than your average neighborhood brewery but smaller than Two Roads right by and not as good as most other small CT brewers. Two Roads has pretty large distribution and is borderline category 3 at this point.

Stony creek prints money. They kill it in the summer with their crap beers. Best taproom/ location of anywhere in Connecticut. Awesome talent there on weekends also. I go maybe twice a year but why go there when you can go to lennys or watersedge or salt or bills if you want to be on the water and drink

 

[Rico444]

Actually Long Trail has some good beers including a solid VT IPA. But Magic Hat sucks. Saranac etc. I guess my point is if you are pushing $16-20 4 packs at retail you better be making something at least close to the on premise places like Trillium. Good examples, Toppling Goliath, Finback and Singlecut. I see a ton of 16 Oz stuff on shelves from new places that is crap. Some utterly flawed and some just at the level of Sam Rebel. Lagunitas has been smart. They are top tier category 3 but not expensive. The days when Ballast Point Sculpin can be priced at the top of the range are over.

Most SingleCut 4 packs are actually north of $20. I like their beer, but not enough to pay $23 for four of them.

 

[Dove]

Stony creek prints money. They kill it in the summer with their crap beers. Best taproom/ location of anywhere in Connecticut. Awesome talent there on weekends also. I go maybe twice a year but why go there when you can go to lennys or watersedge or salt or bills if you want to be on the water and drink

I find their location overhyped. The view really isn't that great. You have a standard road bridge over a small river...then some boat moorings. Nothing that scenic.

The brewer is a long-time brewer who made some good beer. And some weird ones. His hazy rebrand of 203 was amazing. His Mexicali lager, La Garza, is a great yard beer. An oyster stout, Black Pearl, was good as was another stout called No Egrets.

Mostly meh beer, for sure. But there are really good ones. I hope Andy Schwartz stays local but have doubts.

 

[Dove]

Most SingleCut 4 packs are actually north of $20. I like their beer, but not enough to pay $23 for four of them.

There is a packie in Essex that routinely offers single cans. I will pay $5 for one just for the opportunity. I am okay doing that than dropping the $20+ on 4. Always love Singlecut brews, too.

 

[TRest]

Actually Long Trail has some good beers including a solid VT IPA. But Magic Hat sucks. Saranac etc. I guess my point is if you are pushing $16-20 4 packs at retail you better be making something at least close to the on premise places like Trillium. Good examples, Toppling Goliath, Finback and Singlecut. I see a ton of 16 Oz stuff on shelves from new places that is crap. Some utterly flawed and some just at the level of Sam Rebel. Lagunitas has been smart. They are top tier category 3 but not expensive. The days when Ballast Point Sculpin can be priced at the top of the range are over.

This. Sculpin is like $2 more than any competitor 6 pack but not noticeably better anymore. I haven't bought it in about 2 years now. Stony Creek had great packaging and I see it in every grocery store, but the IPA's were just so average.

 

[Rico444]

There is a packie in Essex that routinely offers single cans. I will $5 for one just for the opportunity. I am okay doing that than dropping the $20+ on 4. Always love Singlecut brews, too.

I've had a few that I've really liked, but part of the problem is that it doesn't sell because of the price point, so most stores I go into have beer that's six months or more older, which is a death sentence for an IPA.

 

[Dove]

I've had a few that I've really liked, but part of the problem is that it doesn't sell because of the price point, so most stores I go into have beer that's six months or more older, which is a death sentence for an IPA.

I've had a few that I've really liked, but part of the problem is that it doesn't sell because of the price point, so most stores I go into have beer that's six months or more older, which is a death sentence for an IPA.

So many people don't check the canning date. Even I forget sometimes.

 

[8893]

Although I've mostly replaced my beer drinking with hard cider in the past three years, I was all-in on the micro/craft beer scene for more than 25 years prior to that. By the time I switched there were already too many mediocre ones. I used to make it a practice to give almost any IPA a shot by picking up a six (or four) pack, and I still have the remnants of several of those in my basement beer fridge because so many were so meh. And ones like Sculpin or Jai Lai all of a sudden started tasting a lot less special. I keep putting them out at parties and each time a few more go.

They don't taste any more meh now than they did then, but the sheer number of new breweries in the last three years alone makes it almost impossible to keep up, even if I was still trying. From the outside, it does seem like the average quality of the new breweries has increased significantly, and that's obviously a good thing. I agree with @Dove that at this point it's better to spend $5 to try a can than to invest in a four pack if you don't know you really like it. I also agree that Stony Creek had a good buzz and a good run with a decent location, decent marketing and average-at-best beer, but that the bloom is off the rose a bit with increased competition both in local quality and in market penetration. Two Roads has far more resources and a much better plan to outlast them on that end of the market, and they are not good enough to compete at the high quality end.

 

[Waquoit]

His Mexicali lager, La Garza, is a great yard beer.

I think that was the only Stony beer I liked. They had it at Agave Grill.

 

[superjohn]

Most SingleCut 4 packs are actually north of $20. I like their beer, but not enough to pay $23 for four of them.

Sounds crazy to me. My last beer purchase was a 15 pack of Founders Centennial cans for like 14 bucks.

 

[Dove]

Although I've mostly replaced my beer drinking with hard cider in the past three years, I was all-in on the micro/craft beer scene for more than 25 years prior to that. By the time I switched there were already too many mediocre ones. I used to make it a practice to give almost any IPA a shot by picking up a six (or four) pack, and I still have the remnants of several of those in my basement beer fridge because so many were so meh. And ones like Sculpin or Jai Lai all of a sudden started tasting a lot less special. I keep putting them out at parties and each time a few more go.

They don't taste any more meh now than they did then, but the sheer number of new breweries in the last three years alone makes it almost impossible to keep up, even if I was still trying. From the outside, it does seem like the average quality of the new breweries has increased significantly, and that's obviously a good thing. I agree with @Dove that at this point it's better to spend $5 to try a can than to invest in a four pack if you don't know you really like it. I also agree that Stony Creek had a good buzz and a good run with a decent location, decent marketing and average-at-best beer, but that the bloom is off the rose a bit with increased competition both in local quality and in market penetration. Two Roads has far more resources and a much better plan to outlast them on that end of the market, and they are not good enough to compete at the high quality end.

The top shelf of my beer fridge is all NA from The Athletic Brewing Company. 65 calories/can and tastes excellent. I hear the brewery-only dry hopped IPA is amazing.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Stony creek prints money. They kill it in the summer with their crap beers. Best taproom/ location of anywhere in Connecticut. Awesome talent there on weekends also. I go maybe twice a year but why go there when you can go to lennys or watersedge or salt or bills if you want to be on the water and drink

Is that why they’re laying people off?

 

[methodology]

Is that why they’re laying people off?

They hired too many people a few years ago just trying to pump out beers and get in every store/restaurant. Now they are feeling the squeeze of all the better craft beers. They are probably getting killed with sales and making cuts in that department

Still doesn't take away they kill it every Friday- Sunday and holidays from memorial day- labor day. They also started doing concerts this summer which I'm pretty sure they have sold out every one they've had thus far. They also offer wines which brings females there and have guest taps and started doing beer cocktails this summer

 

[8893]

and have guest taps

Very smart.

 

[Dove]

Very smart.

Stony Creek barkeep: "Whatt'l'ya have?"

Customer: "Yeah...a Doobious!"

Stony Creek barkeep: [under breath] "mumble mumble"

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

They hired too many people a few years ago just trying to pump out beers and get in every store/restaurant. Now they are feeling the squeeze of all the better craft beers. They are probably getting killed with sales and making cuts in that department

Still doesn't take away they kill it every Friday- Sunday and holidays from memorial day- labor day. They also started doing concerts this summer which I'm pretty sure they have sold out every one they've had thus far. They also offer wines which brings females there and have guest taps and started doing beer cocktails this summer

I mean I never really implied that their spot wasn’t good. Just that they have poopoo beers.

 

[Waquoit]

The top shelf of my beer fridge is all NA from The Athletic Brewing Company. 65 calories/can and tastes excellent. I hear the brewery-only dry hopped IPA is amazing.

You sound like a true athletic supporter.