OT: Bam Adebayo hires agent

[LStudfellow]

Kentucky loses another as Bam Adebayo is hiring an agent and will head to the NBA

I am sharing this for one particular reason... and here it is: "I am not calling this a trend, but just pointing it out: For the second straight year, a Kentucky big man leaves the program after one year with the Wildcats and will likely end up getting selected in a much lower spot than where he was projected entering his freshman year. Skal Labissiere went 29th in 2016 draft; he was discussed as a potential No. 1 pick before playing a game under Calipari."

As if Labissiere and Adebayo are the only two Kentucky recruits this has happened with? How about Marcus Lee:
John Calipari is the most insatiable recruiter alive

It is amazing that so many top high school players buy into Calipari's BS. The truth is that many of them would be much better served for their own futures being a star and developing their games at another school. But most in the media, particularly ESPN, are too afraid to be critical of him and his "system", or highlight the failures that continue to pile up. And how it hurts these kids, and costs them millions of dollars.

Even this writer Ricky O'Donnell stopped short of stating the truth. This is all about an adult who lies to starry-eyed teenagers to get what he wants. And if they get screwed in the process? Too bad for them! Somehow, the 16/17/18 year old is the one who should have known better. Seriously?

The question should be: has any player actually developed at all under Calipari? Has he ever coached up a single player into a first round draft choice that was not projected to be one coming out of high school?

 

[Matrim55]

The question should be: has any player actually developed at all under Calipari? Has he ever coached up a single player into a first round draft choice that was not projected to be one coming out of high school?

Cauley-Stein for sure. Ulis and Booker helped their stock, but not as much as many, many others hurt their stock at UK.

Alex Poythress is a great example, as are the Harrison twins – both top 5 players in their HS class, neither was drafted.

I want UK's scalp in the tourney again.

 

[Rocktheworld]

It is amazing that so many top high school players buy into Calipari's BS.

Well it's completely understandable for high school minors, with many of whom in this context coming from unfortunate backgrounds. The issue is that these kids' parents don't step up and act, at the very least, as a effective BS detector. Parents are supposed to have some wisdom and critical thinking skills, and are supposed to guide their children. What these kids are doing are symptoms of underlying poor parenting/guidance.

You'd think high school coaches would step up too but that is clearly another colossal failure but who knows what Cal is doing behind the scenes with said coaches

 

[Jerry1714]

Not all on Calapari. Blame is on the recruiting services as well over hyping kids.

Also, some players are better suited for the NBA game than the college game. Skal being one. He dropped 32 and had 11 boards against the Suns, not sure he ever scored over 20 in college. If you redid the draft he would not go 28.

 

[BUConn10]

He's still gonna be fine. A projection is just that, a projection. So many things happen over that years time, as long as he's still in the same tier spot then he had a successful pre-requisite year of college by the one-and-done culture standards.

 

[LIuconn]

Are they hurting their stock by going there or are they just being found out that they weren't good enough to begin with? I have a hard time believing Cal is making a basketball player worse after 6 months of "coaching."

These athletes run into a stronger litmus test at UK or any other top college program.

I'm no fan of Cal but I think this is more of a reflection on inaccurate prospect evaluation and projections than anything else.

 

[intlzncster]

Cauley-Stein for sure. Ulis and Booker helped their stock, but not as much as many, many others hurt their stock at UK.

Alex Poythress is a great example, as are the Harrison twins – both top 5 players in their HS class, neither was drafted.

I want UK's scalp in the tourney again.

Bledsoe helped his stock too. And then a guy like Daniel Orton road the UK (and his teammates) coattails to an inexplicable 1st rd pick.

 

[intlzncster]

Well it's completely understandable for high school minors, with many of whom in this context coming from unfortunate backgrounds. The issue is that these kids' parents don't step up and act, at the very least, as a effective BS detector. Parents are supposed to have some wisdom and critical thinking skills, and are supposed to guide their children. What these kids are doing are symptoms of underlying poor parenting/guidance.

You'd think high school coaches would step up too but that is clearly another colossal failure but who knows what Cal is doing behind the scenes with said coaches

Little unfair to the parents though. They come from unfortunate backgrounds too, and are pretty much fed the UK bill of sale by the media, and then Cal too. Why would they think otherwise when they see all these kids being drafted. Look at the list. They average 4 guys drafted per year under Cal. Think about that. I mean it's absurd. You put this in front of a family, and what are they going to say? "yes".

Year Rd Player
2016 1 Jamal Murray
2016 1 Skal Labissiere
2016 2 Tyler Ulis
2015 1 Karl-Anthony Towns
2015 1 Willie Cauley-Stein
2015 1 Trey Lyles
2015 1 Devin Booker
2015 2 Andrew Harrison
2015 2 Dakari Johnson
2014 1 Julius Randle
2014 1 James Young
2013 1 Nerlens Noel
2013 1 Archie Goodwin
2012 1 Anthony Davis
2012 1 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
2012 1 Terrence Jones
2012 1 Marquis Teague
2012 2 Doron Lamb
2012 2 Darius Miller
2011 1 Enes Kanter
2011 1 Brandon Knight
2011 2 Josh Harrellson
2011 2 DeAndre Liggins
2010 1 John Wall
2010 1 DeMarcus Cousins
2010 1 Patrick Patterson
2010 1 Eric Bledsoe
2010 1 Daniel Orton

 

[mauconnfan]

Are they hurting their stock by going there or are they just being found out that they weren't good enough to begin with? I have a hard time believing Cal is making a basketball player worse after 6 months of "coaching."

These athletes run into a stronger litmus test at UK or any other top college program.

I'm no fan of Cal but I think this is more of a reflection on inaccurate prospect evaluation and projections than anything else.

Yep certainly not worst but also probably not better. These kids are so good they have to get better just by continuing playing anywhere. I mean he didn't allow some to grow like Leee, Poythress as well as they might have at other programs but just like anywhere else he had better players in their positions. And many were going to be good no matter where they played for a year prior to getting to the NBA. That 4 star kid who just committed there is either really high on himself or not very bright.

 

[JSM1970]

I like Bam a lot, if I'm C's I package my 2s and a player like Rozier and trade into late 1st round if he's still on the board

 

[John]

Little unfair to the parents though. They come from unfortunate backgrounds too, and are pretty much fed the UK bill of sale by the media, and then Cal too. Why would they think otherwise when they see all these kids being drafted. Look at the list. They average 4 guys drafted per year under Cal. Think about that. I mean it's absurd. You put this in front of a family, and what are they going to say? "yes".

Year Rd Player
2016 1 Jamal Murray
2016 1 Skal Labissiere
2016 2 Tyler Ulis
2015 1 Karl-Anthony Towns
2015 1 Willie Cauley-Stein
2015 1 Trey Lyles
2015 1 Devin Booker
2015 2 Andrew Harrison
2015 2 Dakari Johnson
2014 1 Julius Randle
2014 1 James Young
2013 1 Nerlens Noel
2013 1 Archie Goodwin
2012 1 Anthony Davis
2012 1 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
2012 1 Terrence Jones
2012 1 Marquis Teague
2012 2 Doron Lamb
2012 2 Darius Miller
2011 1 Enes Kanter
2011 1 Brandon Knight
2011 2 Josh Harrellson
2011 2 DeAndre Liggins
2010 1 John Wall
2010 1 DeMarcus Cousins
2010 1 Patrick Patterson
2010 1 Eric Bledsoe
2010 1 Daniel Orton

definitely some guys on that list that left UK with a bad taste of UConn in their mouths.
(just sayin)

 

[the Q]

I like Bam a lot, if I'm C's I package my 2s and a player like Rozier and trade into late 1st round if he's still on the board

Agreed. He's one of the guys you move up so.

So much potential there.

I was disappointed he got such a raw deal in the UNC game. I wanted to see him in the environment against, big, strong upperclassmen.

The other guys i like for the C's in round 2 are Jordan Bell (super effiicient and blocks shots, will probably never forget to box out again) and Thornwell who is a classic 3 and D player in the NBA IMO. He was really efficient based on PER and shot the 3 and FTs quite well.

 

[mauconnfan]

Little unfair to the parents though. They come from unfortunate backgrounds too, and are pretty much fed the UK bill of sale by the media, and then Cal too. Why would they think otherwise when they see all these kids being drafted. Look at the list. They average 4 guys drafted per year under Cal. Think about that. I mean it's absurd. You put this in front of a family, and what are they going to say? "yes".

Year Rd Player
2016 1 Jamal Murray
2016 1 Skal Labissiere
2016 2 Tyler Ulis
2015 1 Karl-Anthony Towns
2015 1 Willie Cauley-Stein
2015 1 Trey Lyles
2015 1 Devin Booker
2015 2 Andrew Harrison
2015 2 Dakari Johnson
2014 1 Julius Randle
2014 1 James Young
2013 1 Nerlens Noel
2013 1 Archie Goodwin
2012 1 Anthony Davis
2012 1 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
2012 1 Terrence Jones
2012 1 Marquis Teague
2012 2 Doron Lamb
2012 2 Darius Miller
2011 1 Enes Kanter
2011 1 Brandon Knight
2011 2 Josh Harrellson
2011 2 DeAndre Liggins
2010 1 John Wall
2010 1 DeMarcus Cousins
2010 1 Patrick Patterson
2010 1 Eric Bledsoe
2010 1 Daniel Orton

I don't follow the NBA enough and don't want to look it up but aren't there an awful lot of guys in this list that fell well short of what they thought they would be? Maybe that while mindset on "one and done" isn't good for every player that goes to UK? Problem is if you're not good enough after one year you are now buried because he's finding someone better than you and promising him minutes without giving a rats a** about you. Not sure what some parents and kids don't get. I'm guessing Gabriel has some 2nd thoughts and guys like Lee and Poythress stuck it out too long.

 

[kobe]

Best day of UK's basketball season is still two months away. Must be nice.

 

[Robertelamin]

I don't follow the NBA enough and don't want to look it up but aren't there an awful lot of guys in this list that fell well short of what they thought they would be? Maybe that while mindset on "one and done" isn't good for every player that goes to UK? Problem is if you're not good enough after one year you are now buried because he's finding someone better than you and promising him minutes without giving a rats a** about you. Not sure what some parents and kids don't get. I'm guessing Gabriel has some 2nd thoughts and guys like Lee and Poythress stuck it out too long.

Yeah look at the Harrisons. Both came back and were rewarded with their playing time being reduced by 300 minutes each.

 

[the Q]

Yeah look at the Harrisons. Both came back and were rewarded with their playing time being reduced by 300 minutes each.

They're lucky they still started.

they were better with Ulis and Booker on the floor.

Harrison Hero Ball cost them a title in 2015.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't follow the NBA enough and don't want to look it up but aren't there an awful lot of guys in this list that fell well short of what they thought they would be? Maybe that while mindset on "one and done" isn't good for every player that goes to UK? Problem is if you're not good enough after one year you are now buried because he's finding someone better than you and promising him minutes without giving a rats a** about you. Not sure what some parents and kids don't get. I'm guessing Gabriel has some 2nd thoughts and guys like Lee and Poythress stuck it out too long.

Sure, but that's looking at it in depth. It's also probably a function of high school recruiting ranking more than anything else. Would these kids have developed more somewhere else? I don't know. Maybe. But even if they did, I think the UK bump helped a lot of kids out more in the draft than being at another school not named Duke/UNC/UCLA et al.

 

[mauconnfan]

Sure, but that's looking at it in depth. It's also probably a function of high school recruiting ranking more than anything else. Would these kids have developed more somewhere else? I don't know. Maybe. But even if they did, I think the UK bump helped a lot of kids out more in the draft than being at another school not named Duke/UNC/UCLA et al.

Oh I agree going somewhere else means nothing or better yet, we don't know what any would have done. My point is did they get out too early and didn't improve on the things the NBA looks for? At another school they wouldn't have felt the pressure to get out now as they would at UK because there's someone else coming that could be better and has been promised the same treatment you got. Just a though not sure at all, maybe some of these kids hate school and this would be their plan no matter. It's just a shame kids like Orton, Goodwin, Young and D Johnson didn't have another year or 2 under their belts because none were ready.

 

[intlzncster]

Or maybe that's too much to ask of adults these days; Donald J Trump was elected POTUS after all

Well from my perspective, which will sound arrogant , I think it is, given my view of the average person these days. I'm an Idiocracy guy.

I'd also point out that a lot of these kids don't have fathers and such around them. They've got mothers, many of whom are not like Mrs Boatright, and more importantly, handlers who are far more interested in what they can get out of the kid than what they can do for the kid.

Also, we are underestimating the fact that Calipari is really, really good at what he does. He's not some yokel snake oil salesman. He's likely the best MCBB salesman of his generation, if not all time.

 

[intlzncster]

Oh I agree going somewhere else means nothing or better yet, we don't know what any would have done. My point is did they get out too early and didn't improve on the things the NBA looks for? At another school they wouldn't have felt the pressure to get out now as they would at UK because there's someone else coming that could be better and has been promised the same treatment you got. Just a though not sure at all, maybe some of these kids hate school and this would be their plan no matter. It's just a shame kids like Orton, Goodwin, Young and D Johnson didn't have another year or 2 under their belts because none were ready.

I don't have the answer either. On the other side of the coin, would these kids have risked exposure by staying longer and not developing much (Poythress/ Harrisons)? That's another factor, and highly important one. I'd guess that's what would have happened with a guy like Orton. He is just not an NBA player, and if we are looking back on it, he actually made the right call to go get that money. He's playing in Europe now.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I was talking about this in another thread. For every top 10 kid that goes to Kentucky and gets drafted there's 5 top 50 kids who never sniff the court when they could boost their stock being a star somewhere else.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Well from my perspective, which will sound arrogant , I think it is, given my view of the average person these days. I'm an Idiocracy guy.

I'm right there with you my friend. I also hear you on the father figure angle which is why I mentioned HS coaches, but they are surely looking to "get theirs" as well

 

[gtcam]

Bam was a man among boys in college BUT there are plenty of Bam's in the NBA who are much more multi talented.
The kid hasn't shown a real tweener shot
In addition, Ive seen him struggle against guys his height and taller
But he does run the floor well and has a motor - is it enough for him to step right into the NBA and play significant minutes?
I'm not sure but he may have an upside if he works hard

 

[MadDogRevival]

I hate Calipari something fierce. Guy is a slimy turd. I wish Chaney had gotten to him that day.

That said, this should be retitled the "Big ButtHurt Thread."

The guy is giving kids and parents exactly what he's telling them. He's giving them a national spotlight. He's giving them great practice time. He's giving them hype that they wouldn't get in just any nook or cranny of NCAA D-1. The rest of it is ancillary. Nobody's going there for one season thinking that Cal is going to improve their footwork better than Izzo. That's silly. It's all about image and exposure.

And the notion that he doesn't develop people is groundless. Show me some stats comparing rank coming in and draft position . . . compared to other schools. Start with Kansas and Duke. This can be imperfectly quantified.

Correct me here if needed - Aren't Cousins, Wall, and Davis all Calipari products? That's what? 3 of the best 15 players in the NBA, for sure. Arguably 3 of the best 12?

Hate the guy. Hate the effect he is having on the game. But the system he put in place is, in a lot of ways, brilliant.

It's nice and romantic to talk about getting to know kids, and 4 years, and love for the program, but I'd be lying if I was to write that I wouldn't prefer that, or a less robust version of it, to what we have right now, with the understanding that we'd be top 15 every preseason and fighting for a FF and NC every season.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I hate Calipari something fierce. Guy is a slimy turd. I wish Chaney had gotten to him that day.

That said, this should be retitled the "Big ButtHurt Thread."

The guy is giving kids and parents exactly what he's telling them. He's giving them a national spotlight. He's giving them great practice time. He's giving them hype that they wouldn't get in just any nook or cranny of NCAA D-1. The rest of it is ancillary. Nobody's going there for one season thinking that Cal is going to improve their footwork better than Izzo. That's silly. It's all about image and exposure.

And the notion that he doesn't develop people is groundless. Show me some stats comparing rank coming in and draft position . . . compared to other schools. Start with Kansas and Duke. This can be imperfectly quantified.

Correct me here if needed - Aren't Cousins, Wall, and Davis all Calipari products? That's what? 3 of the best 15 players in the NBA, for sure. Arguably 3 of the best 12?

Hate the guy. Hate the effect he is having on the game. But the system he put in place is, in a lot of ways, brilliant.

It's nice and romantic to talk about getting to know kids, and 4 years, and love for the program, but I'd be lying if I was to write that I wouldn't prefer that, or a less robust version of it, to what we have right now, with the understanding that we'd be top 15 every preseason and fighting for a FF and NC every season.

Those are guys who could have gone to CCSU and would be top 15 NBA guys. IMO with U.K. if you're not a top 10 kid coming out of high school don't bother. We all would have give our collective left nut for Wenyen Gabriel but we went to Kentucky and didn't play. There will be 5 more McD All Americans ahead of him next year and the year after.