B1G

[pj]

@CoastAtlantic, I don't think the B1G thinks the way you think they think. They are building the BTN out and are thinking markets and year-round programming. Football is great but they may have accepted that football supremacy has permanently moved south, for weather and demographic reasons. UConn dominates a top-21 market, and provides proximity and penetration into the #1 and #7 markets. New England + New York has 35 million people and only one public flagship that plays high level athletics, and only two privates. It is the big unclaimed market of college sports. Virginia has more people than Connecticut, but far fewer than New England, much less New England plus New York, and Virginia is split in its loyalties; the ACC and SEC will always claim Virginia fans. The northeast has no SEC and Syracuse and BC carry minimal draw for the ACC.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Did I catch you on the University of Chicago... a lot of people aren't aware of this affiliation with the B1G through the CIC. Of course Chicago was once part of what is now the B1G...that I'm sure you knew. Just trying to keep you on your toes...

Anyone know if Johns Hopkins is going to get access to the CIC through it's B1G affiliation for lacrosse. U Chicago (US News #4) and Hopkins (US News #12) are very similar. Such a relationship should be beneficial to all parties.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

Anyone know if Johns Hopkins is going to get access to the CIC through it's B1G affiliation for lacrosse. U Chicago (US News #4) and Hopkins (US News #12) are very similar. Such a relationship should be beneficial to all parties.

Can't find the answer re: CIC membership for JHU. Sent email to CIC to inquire. Believe there is already some cross breading going on but I hope to know more soon.

 

[CL82]

To the best of my knowledge B1G divides BTN revenue equally (notwithstanding newer members)...take with a grain of salt: I also said they didn't play hockey in Nebraska !

I think I've heard otherwise but don't have the chance to look it up right now.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

If the B1G truly won't expand without AAU, that's bad news for UConn. It's even bad news for Kansas, since they wouldn't be invited to the AAU with their current metrics, and as Nebraska shows, could be vulnerable to pruning. If AAU is essential, then there's UVa, UNC, Missouri, Texas, and not much else.

UConn, Va Tech, Kansas, and Oklahoma are all one tier down academically and are much more logical and available expansion candidates. So the B1G will have to make up their mind about priorities.

Believe they have made up their minds. Johns Hopkins generated over $1 billion in grants and research monies in 2011 - #1 in the country. Pretty sure that was more important than LAX to B1G presidents. Kansas is in AAU club - since 1909. Unless they pull a Nebraska they should be good to go B1G. Problem is any new member needs to bring in mega-grant and research monies. Duke, UNC, GT are good. UT is probably fine, but didn't see their name on the list of top earners. Mizzou is not a top earner but should have been in B1G already. I truly believe UConn goes to ACC...in time.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

They want to build the brand, but hockey is not a universal B1G activity. Only six members (I believe) have teams, and they would be the usual suspects - Wis., MI., MN, MSU, OSU and PSU. (Hockey in Nebraska? That's probably not a thing.) There are also a lot of regional college teams who play great hockey as well. Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, no conference ever expanded for want of an additional hockey team...no matter the quality. It's a plum, after the fact. (Put the biscuit in the basket, baby!)

Having a strong hockey team in a good TV and recruiting market for the sport (CY/New England), is not as important tot he B1G as football; but, it is a check in UConn's favor. There have been rumors that once Rutgers gets its financial house in order (my Rutgers alumni friends all agree that it will not be in our lifetimes), Rutgers will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

B1G added Hopkins for lacrosse so they could have a 6 team league & get an automatic qualifier to the NCAA tournament.

Same reason Penn St became the 6th hockey school

B1G hockey to a high degree owes its existence to Terry Pegula. Penn St was a successful club team before; but, there was no money to upgrade them to D1 standards. Pegula made it possible with a $90 million dollar donation which created 6th B1G team with hockey and thus a league was born.

 

[CL82]

God damn it that song is so damn fantastic!

It will soon be the most hated song in Hockey East, which will only make me love it all the more.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

B1G hockey to a high degree owes its existence to Terry Pegula. Penn St was a successful club team before; but, there was no money to upgrade them to D1 standards. Pegula made it possible with a $90 million dollar donation which created 6th B1G team with hockey and thus a league was born.

How about this for an expansion idea for B1G: University of Toronto. Tens of thousands of students, AAU member, six million people in metro area, half a million alumni spread around the globe. They play 26 sports - not sure if all are varsity or club - including lax, hockey (of course), rugby, rowing, basketball, baseball, and (sort of) football. The last one, football, would be a 20 year project - think they have something like a 5,000 seat 'stadium' and Canadian rules, but the B1G had already demonstrated it wants research and grant money more than titles (although titles are nice, too) and I would imagine (I do not know) the University of Toronto gets a boat load of Canadian research and grand dollars. Also, culturally, Toronto is a better fit with B1G than Texas. Trust me on this...been to Toronto a boat load of times - their sensibility is very mid-western. Never been to Texas but I saw one on TV once...

 

[specialisthusky]

How about this for an expansion idea for B1G: University of Toronto. Tens of thousands of students, AAU member, six million people in metro area, half a million alumni spread around the globe. They play 26 sports - not sure if all are varsity or club - including lax, hockey (of course), rugby, rowing, basketball, baseball, and (sort of) football. The last one, football, would be a 20 year project - think they have something like a 5,000 seat 'stadium' and Canadian rules, but the B1G had already demonstrated it wants research and grant money more than titles (although titles are nice, too) and I would imagine (I do not know) the University of Toronto gets a boat load of Canadian research and grand dollars. Also, culturally, Toronto is a better fit with B1G than Texas. Trust me on this...been to Toronto a boat load of times - their sensibility is very mid-western. Never been to Texas but I saw one on TV once...

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

Yeah, U of Toronto is an outside shot. However, is there another untapped market in US with similar numbers? (I know someone will fine one and call me on it - that's the problem when you don't know the answer to the question asked.) Honestly don't think you can over-emphasize the importance of G&R money to B1G. At big, research oriented schools grant and research money dwarfs athletic revenue. I think the pick up of R and Maryland was a good idea on many levels. I didn't say athletics was unimportant. I didn't say 'footprint' was unimportant. I didn't say eyeballs watching TV was unimportant. I am saying the B1G wants to get into bed with G&R producing machines. I am saying this is more important than football, BB, etc. The BIG would love to get their hands on UNC, Duke (private, small, and brings in a ton of money), and maybe, maybe GT. Problem...they don't want to come - other then maybe GT. (Oh, I don't think you are going to have to worry about the NCAA for much longer...a lion w/o teeth in the not too distant future.) So, what the hell. Different is good. Go for University of Toronto. (btw - Rutgers and Maryland do a reasonably good job with R&G money. It wasn't all about TV.)

 

[specialisthusky]

Yeah, U of Toronto is an outside shot. However, is there another untapped market in US with similar numbers? (I know someone will fine one and call me on it - that's the problem when you don't know the answer to the question asked.) Honestly don't think you can over-emphasize the importance of G&R money to B1G. At big, research oriented schools grant and research money dwarfs athletic revenue. I think the pick up of R and Maryland was a good idea on many levels. I didn't say athletics was unimportant. I didn't say 'footprint' was unimportant. I didn't say eyeballs watching TV was unimportant. I am saying the B1G wants to get into bed with G&R producing machines. I am saying this is more important than football, BB, etc. The BIG would love to get their hands on UNC, Duke (private, small, and brings in a ton of money), and maybe, maybe GT. Problem...they don't want to come - other then maybe GT. (Oh, I don't think you are going to have to worry about the NCAA for much longer...a lion w/o teeth in the not too distant future.) So, what the hell. Different is good. Go for University of Toronto. (btw - Rutgers and Maryland do a reasonably good job with R&G money. It wasn't all about TV.)

It was all about TV, man.

Nebraska would not have been accepted if G&R were the first criteria - as it has been known Michigan and other B1G Presidents were the decision makers kicking them out of the AAU.

The B1G is an athletic conference - which is first and foremost - with an identiy of land grant research universities. Delany wassn't shopping for research grants when he added Nebraska, PSU, RU, and UMD. He was investing in programs that could increase the profitability of the Athletic Conference and would fit in with the identity of the conference.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

There is one exception, I believe, Simon Fraser out of Vancouver is a NCAA division II member.

 

[specialisthusky]

There is one exception, I believe, Simon Fraser out of Vancouver is a NCAA division II member.

That is some impressive international NCAA Division II membership knowledge.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I've read that it would be unlikely for Toronto or McGill to place their hockey teams in the NCAA because they are very attached to the system they have in place now (I can't remember the details of that). It might have something to do with it being a huge culture change for them to put their athletes on full-ride.

In any case, if you get Toronto but you don't get hockey, the rest of their sports bring next to nothing.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

It was all about TV, man.

Nebraska would not have been accepted if G&R were the first criteria - as it has been known Michigan and other B1G Presidents were the decision makers kicking them out of the AAU.

The B1G is an athletic conference - which is first and foremost - with an identiy of land grant research universities. Delany wassn't shopping for research grants when he added Nebraska, PSU, RU, and UMD. He was investing in programs that could increase the profitability of the Athletic Conference and would fit in with the identity of the conference.

Okay.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

I've read that it would be unlikely for Toronto or McGill to place their hockey teams in the NCAA because they are very attached to the system they have in place now (I can't remember the details of that). It might have something to do with it being a huge culture change for them to put their athletes on full-ride.

In any case, if you get Toronto but you don't get hockey, the rest of their sports bring next to nothing.

I honestly don't know how to respond. Things may look different 20 years down the road. College football certainly doesn't look the same today as twenty years ago. What does? Perhaps consider it a B1G long term investment. An associate member for the first 15 years. (I'm just spit-balling here, of course.) As things are now structured there are problems to overcome. Not insurmountable ...

 

[kingdobbs]

B1G added Hopkins for lacrosse so they could have a 6 team league & get an automatic qualifier to the NCAA tournament.

Same reason Penn St became the 6th hockey school

No, Penn State became the 6th hockey school because the school wanted to add hockey; because the league's by-laws specified that six teams was the minimum for B1G sponsored competition, Penn State's addition triggered a discussion.

If the B1G wanted to have a hockey conference, just for the sake of having an autobid, they could have added any number of cromulent candidates. However, the power teams in the B1G had no need for an autobid. Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan State could make the NCAAs any year they wanted, just based on WCHA and CCHA schedule strength. .

Lacrosse is a completely different story. Beyond Maryland, you had three aggressively mediocre teams (Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers) and Michigan, a complete and utter newbie to lacrosse. Getting an autobid means that in some years, someone other than Maryland might actually make the tourney; adding JHU as an associate potentially gets the B1G lax league 2-3 teams in the tourney a year (and men's lax is one of the few sports that actually generates positive revenue for its tournament).

Having a strong hockey team in a good TV and recruiting market for the sport (CY/New England), is not as important tot he B1G as football; but, it is a check in UConn's favor. There have been rumors that once Rutgers gets its financial house in order (my Rutgers alumni friends all agree that it will not be in our lifetimes), Rutgers will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey.

Neither Rutgers, nor any current or future B1G members, will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey. The league already has two albatrosses in Ohio State and Penn State.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That is some impressive international NCAA Division II membership knowledge.

At some point in the past, UConn women's hoops team played Simon Fraser and my friends and I never heard of them. After some research, we foudn out that Simon Fraser had been dominating the US based NAIA (National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics) and either was talking to or had already been accepted as a new member of the NCAA. I did have to Google what NCAA division they are in (II).

 

[Matrim55]

If the B1G wanted to have a hockey conference, just for the sake of having an autobid, they could have added any number of cromulent candidates.

 

[btstimpy]

Was on a UVa board a few days ago and they hate the idea of going to the B1G...I mean they really HATE it. I was run off the board for simply asking this question: "If the ACC blew up - for whatever reason - would UVa prefer SEC or B1G." I thought B1G would be a good (better) academic fit, perhaps the SEC would be a better geographic / cultural fit. Well, personal attacks notwithstanding, SEC won by about 98%. Don't believe either Virginia school going to B1G... UVa doesn't want to go, B1G doesn't want VT...

If you've found UVA folks wanting the SEC, I'd like to meet them. That would be a rare breed. The Soccer and Lacrosse fans would storm the McCue Center with flaming torches and pitch forks. They would do the same if it were the B1G with the Baseball fans joining them. UVA is very happy where it is with its athletic conference, and the ACC is the best academic fit as well.

 

[Kolumbo]

If you've found UVA folks wanting the SEC, I'd like to meet them. That would be a rare breed. The Soccer and Lacrosse fans would storm the McCue Center with flaming torches and pitch forks. They would do the same if it were the B1G with the Baseball fans joining them. UVA is very happy where it is with its athletic conference, and the ACC is the best academic fit as well.

So UVA is happy being pulled up athletically and down academically. 50% correct.

 

[btstimpy]

So UVA is happy being pulled up athletically and down academically. 50% correct.

UVA would be pulled down academically if they went anywhere different other than the Ivy League. And the Ivy League has chosen to not be a FBS level league, so they aren't an option. UVA plays many members of the Ivy League on a regular basis in soccer and lacrosse, so we'll have to settle for that as the best we can do for athletic association with them.

I was curious reading his post as to who from UVA was pushing SEC. That seemed interesting. There might be some football fans that would like it temporarily, but UVA isn't a football factory and would have a horrible time in that league just like Kentucky does.

 

[Kolumbo]

UVA would be pulled down academically if they went anywhere different other than the Ivy League. And the Ivy League has chosen to not be a FBS level league, so they aren't an option. UVA plays many members of the Ivy League on a regular basis in soccer and lacrosse, so we'll have to settle for that as the best we can do for athletic association with them.

I was curious reading his post as to who from UVA was pushing SEC. That seemed interesting. There might be some football fans that would like it temporarily, but UVA isn't a football factory and would have a horrible time in that league just like Kentucky does.

UVA is an excellent school, no question. But I don't think the ACC is very proud of its academics right now. I think the B1G is trying to hold the line there.

 

[Seaa Blue]

UVA would be pulled down academically if they went anywhere different other than the Ivy League. .

Not sure if serious.

Adding Louisville was a rather desperate move.

 

[btstimpy]

UVA is an excellent school, no question. But I don't think the ACC is very proud of its academics right now. I think the B1G is trying to hold the line there.

If this is the case, someone needs to inform the ACC. This is right out of the transcript of John Swofford's opening remarks at the Basketball Media day on October 29, 2014, last week:

" I continue to be very proud of our collective member institutions and their student athletes. The academic
accomplishments on an annual basis again show that the ACC leads the way among the power five conferences. The
annual U.S. News and World Report Survey of Best Colleges, released in September and their member institutions,
once again, led the way with an average rank of 54.8. This marks the 8th straight year that the ACC has led the power five conferences.
Our student athletes also excelled recently in NCAA graduation success rates. As teams from the ACC rank among the top Division I institutions with an average graduation rate of 88 percent. While the NCAA graduation rate is 82
percent nationally. "

Louisville did lower the ACC average to become closer to the B1G, but the ACC remains the second highest academically only behind the Ivy League, who isn't Power 5.

 

[Huskybite]

If you've found UVA folks wanting the SEC, I'd like to meet them. That would be a rare breed. The Soccer and Lacrosse fans would storm the McCue Center with flaming torches and pitch forks. They would do the same if it were the B1G with the Baseball fans joining them. UVA is very happy where it is with its athletic conference, and the ACC is the best academic fit as well.

Uh, you may want to chose your friends more carefully. As "Mr." Jefferson's colleague, Benjamin Franklin once opined, "If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas" Please, don't be that Hoo and come down off that high horse.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

If you've found UVA folks wanting the SEC, I'd like to meet them. That would be a rare breed. The Soccer and Lacrosse fans would storm the McCue Center with flaming torches and pitch forks. They would do the same if it were the B1G with the Baseball fans joining them. UVA is very happy where it is with its athletic conference, and the ACC is the best academic fit as well.

That does not answer the question: "If the ACC blew up - for whatever reason - would UVa prefer SEC or B1G?"

 

[btstimpy]

Not sure if serious.

Adding Louisville was a rather desperate move.

Louisville was not added for academics. It was added for stuff like the attached. No one in the league has buyer's remorse, so I'm not here to defend Louisville. They're in, and as only one data point they don't bring down the average enough to worry about it. Adding 4 more members with similar academics would be a problem, no doubt.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

Uh, you may want to chose your friends more carefully. As "Mr." Jefferson's colleague, Benjamin Franklin once opined, "If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas" Please, don't be that Hoo and come down off that high horse.

Thank you for that. Just needed to be said.