B1G

[Seaa Blue]

I wouldn't be surprised if we hear rumors of a swap between the Big Ten and ACC, where Penn State and Pitt change places.

Just in from Penn State:

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Same thread, every year. I've been reading that thread for 20 years now.

I suspect it's more than just a few cranks on that message board or I wouldn't bring it up. What about alums and boosters? If they detect enough sentiment to change conferences then they'd be wise to get behind it even if it is just to keep their current relationships at Penn State.

Also, I didn't say that Pitt "belongs" but I did say it would be a face-saving move. Isn't the BTN model predicated on having a school in the state? So even a school in a moderately-sized city would be enough. Pitt fans and Penn State fans are very unlikely to change allegiances but Pitt in the Big Ten may attract people who like Big Ten sports and who wouldn't necessarily switch to Rutgers or Maryland.

Granted, it was a long time ago but Pitt was considered, along with other schools, when they were trying to replace the U. of Chicago. Michigan State got that spot. However, it is proof that Pitt is not some sort of weird fit for them.

I know what the opinions of the B1G fans would be but why would UConn fans reject the possibility to move to a major conference that has Pitt in it?

Take a look:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zY9YlltZu0-0.kybrtQi2hmxo

Pitt, Rutgers, UConn, Maryland

Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana

Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Iowa

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Kansas


Now what would the ACC look like?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zY9YlltZu0-0.k5wfmXhFOCXs

ND, PSU, BC, Syracuse

UL, UC, WF, NCSU

UVA, VT, UNC, Duke

GT, FSU, CU, Miami

Granted, these are hypotheticals. One can switch teams around to get a more balanced strength of schedule.

As for why no ACC network so far, I put that on Swofford and his short-sighted deal, that I think had a role in chasing away Maryland. However, ESPN has a chance to help rectify that situation. I think offering Pitt for PSU in a straight-up deal would benefit both sides. No extra cash needed. Ohio State and Meecheegan get a more perfect setup for them without schools that would pose a major challenge in football other than Nebraska. The Big Ten finally get the coastal states they need to future-proof their conference.

I don't see much wrong in this proposal.

 

[dayooper]

I don't see much wrong in this proposal.

Except for these:

PSU point of view

1. Academic mission -Sorry, but staying in the Big10/CiC is much more aligned with what's really important to the university, educating students. PSU has said many times that CiC membership has brought up the level of academics that wouldn't (or couldn't) have happened without it. I'm not saying that the academics would drop of they went to the ACC (it's schools are very good, as good as the Big10), but they would have to start over. PSU is a large research school already intertwined into the other Big10 schools. Breaking those chains would harm the main purpose of the school.

2. Money - The Big10 schools already make more than The ACC schools do and stand to make more, much more in the next few years.

3. Image - PSU is trying to put a decimating incident and the image issues it caused behind them. The Big10 is not perfect (tattoo gate at OSU, stretch gate at Michigan), but The ACC is getting reputation of going rogue. UNC, 'Cuse, FSU, all are in the midst of issues that could really harm the image of The ACC. I understand this is a stretch, but I know the admin of PSU will not put the image of the school in jeopardy again.

Big10 point of view

1. It's Pitt - Pitt has no where near the appeal nor the draw of PSU. Pitt barely captures Pittsburgh let alone the entire state. Nationally, Pitt doesn't even register.

2. It's Pitt - They don't fit the mark of a Big10 school. They are small and private. They are a great university and a top notch research school, but that's the only similarity.

3. Location - Pitt is Midwestern. PSU is Eastern. Pitt doesn't fit where The Big10 wants to be.

4. It's Pitt

 

[SubbaBub]

PSU leaving is a nonstarter. They run to the barricades from time to time, whenever there is a perceived slight from the legacy members. Until last year, they were at the bottom of the seniority list for 20 years. It affects the mob, put those in charge couldn't be more happy about being in the B1G.

There is some grief that the conference didn't stand up for them 3 yr ago. Same as us with the APR ban. We weren't itching to leave the BE.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Watching this Penn State game is depressing. State College is not THAT much different from Storrs, just a bit bigger. The whole school is pretty much a larger UCONN.

I don't think I'll ever forgive the state for such a mediocre stadium/location/gameday experience. Penn State games are a true marvel.

Hopefully we will see the much needed Rentschler expansion in the next 5 years.

Would be so great to play our away games at stadiums like PSU, Michigan, Michigan State. I know Susan thinks so. Fingers crossed.

How do you figure Penn State is simply a bigger version of UConn? Sure they are similar in that they are both universities, but I really don't see them as that similar.

 

[Dooley]

Anyone suggesting that a school would voluntarily leave the B1G to go to the ACC should stop posting here on the CR board. I understand that we have our B1G homers and our ACC homers that visit us from time to time and loyalties run thick. But c'mon. Penn State may not like the way they were treated over the whole Sandusky scandal, and the ACC sure does seem like a home for scandalous activity, but PSU isn't going to throw away half of its conference TV revenue PLUS money it makes from B1G research over a 2 year football suspension.

And please stop to inflate Pitt as some potential "face saving" move for Delany. Pitt, if you recall, was a second choice alternative to replace UCONN for the ACC back when they were added with Syracuse. The only reason Pitt has a head start over UCONN in a P5 conference is primarily thanks to Boston College's smear campaign led against UCONN to protect "their" New England turf. Since their arrival, Pitt has done absolutely nothing to warrant being in a P5 and have proven themselves to being what they were in the Big East: a parasite of the top championship winning athletic departments in their conference. The B1G is going through a Championship Title drought that is gaining some national attention. Adding Pitt certainly wouldn't fend off those critics.

 

[Dooley]

How do you figure Penn State is simply a bigger version of UConn? Sure they are similar in that they are both universities, but I really don't see them as that similar.

I think he's talking about campus location. State College in comparison with Storrs (both being located in the middle of nowhere). PSU is obviously MUCH larger than UCONN.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I think he's talking about campus location. State College in comparison with Storrs (both being located in the middle of nowhere). PSU is obviously MUCH larger than UCONN.

Storrs is not in the middle of nowhere. The two locations are nothing alike other than neither is not a major city. From Storrs, a short drive puts you in major cities, beaches, and other tourist destinations. A short drive from Penn State's campus gets you??? The nearest city is Baltimore, and even that is over two hours away with Pittsburgh and Philly a good 3 hour drive. Also once you go outside of little State College, you really are in nowheresville as everything is so spread out, something you don't really see much in Connecticut. Our entire state is basically suburbia with a handful of 100k+ cities mixed in. That is nothing like central Pennsylvania where there are Amish, lots of farms, and where you're not going to have to worry about neighbors because there aren't any.

 

[Sea Goat]

Penn State got a royal screwjob tonight. Three things: 1) the interception that wasn't. The ball looked to have hit the ground on the replay but the refs said that the equipment was faulty. ROTFL
2) Ohio State was allowed to kick a field goal TWO SECONDS after the play clock ran to zero. If that happened to UConn, you'd be screaming your lungs here.
3) Franklin was trying to get the refs to clarify something about the clock late in the fourth quarter. The refs charged him with a timeout, which was the last one he had. He didn't call a time out.

Reading PSU boards, some are already going to protest Monday about changing conferences. Will Delany hear about it?

I'm sorry - were you outraged last week when FSU got a "gift call" against ND to scratch out a win? The refs served to keep the ACC's only hope in the Football playoffs alive with that call. I hope ND learned a lesson. Half ass membership in a conference gets you half ass treatment. The ACC wants to protect its own and ND is not included.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

No school is ever leaving a conference because of a bad call.

The only school that has even a remotely outside chance of leaving a major conference to go to another major conference is Missouri to the Big 10, and I would put that at around 1% in the next 10 years.

 

[Kolumbo]

No school is ever leaving a conference because of a bad call.

The only school that has even a remotely outside chance of leaving a major conference to go to another major conference is Missouri to the Big 10, and I would put that at around 1% in the next 10 years.

Missouri, and I wouldn't rule out any of the Florida or Texas schools.

 

[Kolumbo]

Storrs is not in the middle of nowhere. The two locations are nothing alike other than neither is not a major city. From Storrs, a short drive puts you in major cities, beaches, and other tourist destinations. A short drive from Penn State's campus gets you??? The nearest city is Baltimore, and even that is over two hours away with Pittsburgh and Philly a good 3 hour drive. Also once you go outside of little State College, you really are in nowheresville as everything is so spread out, something you don't really see much in Connecticut. Our entire state is basically suburbia with a handful of 100k+ cities mixed in. That is nothing like central Pennsylvania where there are Amish, lots of farms, and where you're not going to have to worry about neighbors because there aren't any.

Don't forget. Penn State fans are willing to drive hours and hours to see their home team play. Apparently some feel that Storrs is too far away from some people IN CONNECTICUT to put a stadium.

 

[Husky25]

Don't forget. Penn State fans are willing to drive hours and hours to see their home team play. Apparently some feel that Storrs is too far away from some people IN CONNECTICUT to put a stadium.

Yeah, it's not as if Mansfield and Storrs residents haven't repeatedly denied the University the option of building a stadium on campus.

 

[Dooley]

Don't forget. Penn State fans are willing to drive hours and hours to see their home team play. Apparently some feel that Storrs is too far away from some people IN CONNECTICUT to put a stadium.

When we played at Michigan years ago, we went to "The Brown Jug" on the Friday afternoon before the game. After they saw our UCONN shirts and remarked how surprised they were to see lots of UCONN fans in Ann Arbor, we asked which fanbase usually packs the town on gameday weekends. Without hesitation, and all at the same time, they said "Penn State". I was surprised. I thought they'd say Ohio State or even Michigan State because of the more heated rivalries with those schools. They said that on years that Penn State plays at Michigan, they get tens of thousands PSU fans to show up in Ann Arbor with or without a ticket and run wild through the town's bars and restaurants. Also said that "Penn State weekend" is ALWAYS the weekend that the most fights and arrests occur on.

Not only are Penn State fans willing to drive hours for home games, but they are willing to drive hours and days for road games too. But we can't get UCONN fans to drive 20 minutes in a little rain to go to any game. Connecticut people sure do thrive on complaining.

 

[CL82]

Except for these:

PSU point of view

1. Academic mission -Sorry, but staying in the Big10/CiC is much more aligned with what's really important to the university, educating students. PSU has said many times that CiC membership has brought up the level of academics that wouldn't (or couldn't) have happened without it. I'm not saying that the academics would drop of they went to the ACC (it's schools are very good, as good as the Big10), but they would have to start over. PSU is a large research school already intertwined into the other Big10 schools. Breaking those chains would harm the main purpose of the school.

2. Money - The Big10 schools already make more than The ACC schools do and stand to make more, much more in the next few years.

3. Image - PSU is trying to put a decimating incident and the image issues it caused behind them. The Big10 is not perfect (tattoo gate at OSU, stretch gate at Michigan), but The ACC is getting reputation of going rogue. UNC, 'Cuse, FSU, all are in the midst of issues that could really harm the image of The ACC. I understand this is a stretch, but I know the admin of PSU will not put the image of the school in jeopardy again.

Big10 point of view

1. It's Pitt - Pitt has no where near the appeal nor the draw of PSU. Pitt barely captures Pittsburgh let alone the entire state. Nationally, Pitt doesn't even register.

2. It's Pitt - They don't fit the mark of a Big10 school. They are small and private. They are a great university and a top notch research school, but that's the only similarity.

3. Location - Pitt is Midwestern. PSU is Eastern. Pitt doesn't fit where The Big10 wants to be.

4. It's Pitt

Well yeah, but other than that it makes perfect sense.

 

[Seaa Blue]

they get tens of thousands PSU fans to show up in Ann Arbor with or without a ticket and run wild through the town's bars and restaurants .

I've heard the same thing... Younger crowd, "with or without a ticket"

Michigan won the first conference meeting, lost a few, then won something like 9 straight. They didn't care for that too much. The referees helped on a couple of those, and the conspiracy theorists were everywhere.

 

[MASSconn]

Penn State is comparable to UCONN in many ways. I see it as a case study that administration should look into. This could be discussed in depth.

-Campuses in the middle of nowhere, developed from land grants
-Campuses that have aided and developed their towns
-Top D1 Sports with superb facilities
-Similar in academic rankings
-$$ being pumped into development
-History of Tradition

I dont care about proximity to a major city (Hartford is not a major city). Storrs is still the middle of nowhere in the quiet corner. Surrounding towns as well.

Think about this- the people of State College adore PSU Athletics, almost in a cult kind of way. Not to mention their larger fanbase throughout the nation. They travel very well. The whole town stops for tailgates. The residents interact with the students- I've seen it firsthand. Is it tradition or is it the demographic? Not sure.

On the contrary, Storrs-Mansfield seems to despise UCONN's development at times. People outside of Storrs don't even want to come to Storrs. 20 minutes off the highway is such a 1st world problem. The atmosphere you see in State College before big athletic events you simply don't see in Storrs. Nor do you see local support as the same.

Other than that, I think the schools are pretty linear (other than our national titles). If we are putting all of our eggs in the B10 bucket, I wonder what we could learn from Penn States' community relationship and how it developed over the years. Storrs Center is a big addition, and we will see how the Hockey Arena on 195/275 pans out (across from the Mansfield Community Center). But this relationship can be greatly improved. This issue bothered me immensly during my own time in Storrs.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

When we played at Michigan years ago, we went to "The Brown Jug" on the Friday afternoon before the game. After they saw our UCONN shirts and remarked how surprised they were to see lots of UCONN fans in Ann Arbor, we asked which fanbase usually packs the town on gameday weekends. Without hesitation, and all at the same time, they said "Penn State". I was surprised. I thought they'd say Ohio State or even Michigan State because of the more heated rivalries with those schools. They said that on years that Penn State plays at Michigan, they get tens of thousands PSU fans to show up in Ann Arbor with or without a ticket and run wild through the town's bars and restaurants. Also said that "Penn State weekend" is ALWAYS the weekend that the most fights and arrests occur on.

Not only are Penn State fans willing to drive hours for home games, but they are willing to drive hours and days for road games too. But we can't get UCONN fans to drive 20 minutes in a little rain to go to any game. Connecticut people sure do thrive on complaining.

I agree with one point. It may take 3 hours for someone from Philly to drive the 200 miles to State College or 4 hours for a PSU alumni 3 hours to drive from the 285 miles from Pitt to Ann Arbor. But, for a Friday night football game, it can take me 4 hours to drive the 120 miles from NNJ to Hartford for a game in a Friday night because CT highway traffic is horrendous. Whoever designed I-84 through Danbury and Waterbury should be sent to State College to be used as tackling dummies at Linebacker U for eternity.

 

[Kolumbo]

I agree with one point. It may take 3 hours for someone from Philly to drive the 200 miles to State College or 4 hours for a PSU alumni 3 hours to drive from the 285 miles from Pitt to Ann Arbor. But, for a Friday night football game, it can take me 4 hours to drive the 120 miles from NNJ to Hartford for a game in a Friday night because CT highway traffic is horrendous. Whoever designed I-84 through Danbury and Waterbury should be sent to State College to be used as tackling dummies at Linebacker U for eternity.

CT did not have the luxury of planning its road system in more recent times like other urban areas. The worst section of 84 is in West Hartford and Hartford. And we don't charge New Yorkers and Mass[achusetts)holes () to use our roadways either. Lots of lost revenue there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

CT did not have the luxury of planning its road system in more recent times like other urban areas. The worst section of 84 is in West Hartford and Hartford. And we don't charge New Yorkers and Mass[achusetts)holes () to use our roadways either. Lots of lost revenue there.

True on the planning issue; but, I have more issues with I-84 in Waterbury where it goes from 3 lanes in Middlebury, to 2 in Waterbury, then 4 in Waterbury, then 2 right before Cheshire. That is always jammed, including both Saturday night at 6 PM heading east and 8 PM on Sunday night heading West this weekend. I can at least avoid Hartford if I am heading towards Boston (stuck if I am heading towards Springfield) by taking I-691 over to I-91 in Meriden, though the back-up onto the Charter Oak can be painful, too. Just wait until CT start to replace I-84 viaduct in Hartford.

 

[SubbaBub]

How do you figure Penn State is simply a bigger version of UConn? Sure they are similar in that they are both universities, but I really don't see them as that similar.

They are very similar. Former agricultural colleges turned land grant universities that became the sole primary state university.

The difference is that UConn was foot bound like an old time Chinese school girl by the presence of stiff competition from private schools and a lack of support from the state and the surrounding municipality.

If UConn was given the land and local autonomy that PSU was given 60-80+ years ago, they'd be mirror images as institutions. UCONN might be bigger based on proximity to larger cities.

UConn just started following in PSUs footsteps, and has a long ways to go. Control of planning and zoning and additional space would help tremendously. If a governor wanted to do that, it might be worth more than just $$.

 

[TerryD]

I'm sorry - were you outraged last week when FSU got a "gift call" against ND to scratch out a win? The refs served to keep the ACC's only hope in the Football playoffs alive with that call. I hope ND learned a lesson. Half ass membership in a conference gets you half ass treatment. The ACC wants to protect its own and ND is not included.

No school is going to join a conference because of a bad call, either.

 

[Seaa Blue]

No school is going to join a conference because of a bad call, either.

I used to get some laughs on the ND board (II) when they would complain about the refs after a Michigan game at Michigan... For the last several years they were ND's ref rentals when @Michigan.

 

[SubbaBub]

I agree with one point. It may take 3 hours for someone from Philly to drive the 200 miles to State College or 4 hours for a PSU alumni 3 hours to drive from the 285 miles from Pitt to Ann Arbor. But, for a Friday night football game, it can take me 4 hours to drive the 120 miles from NNJ to Hartford for a game in a Friday night because CT highway traffic is horrendous. Whoever designed I-84 through Danbury and Waterbury should be sent to State College to be used as tackling dummies at Linebacker U for eternity.

It's 3-5 hours from the following cities:
Philly
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
NYC
Buffalo
Cleveland
Hartford
DC
Trenton
Newark, NJ
Newark/Wilmington

Add in a dearth of local entertainment, and a decent sized local tech/retirement demo in addition to the campus, and you have a base to draw as they do.
60 years of living people attending games doesn't hurt either.

As for the atmosphere, it's only been at the "white out" level for about 10 years. After their last down turn, (6-4 Iowa) they scored a very good recruiting class that openly talked about returning to the top. The students climbed on board and created Paternoville, now Nittanyville, and the rest is history. The students created their version of the white out, seven nation army, zombie nation, and it continues on today.

Now 10+ years of alumni who know nothing but a supercharged gameday atmosphere. The band, the older folks, everyone has bought in to keep it going. Herbstreit called it the greatest show in college football and the University ran with that branding.

So, the challenge to the two or three rows of diehards in the dog pound is to create a club, get it funded, grab a sponsor or two and run with it. The rest of us will follow, because deep down we all want to be stupid drunken college kids for a couple hours a week.

 

[pj]

Penn State has good freeway access. Extend I-384 to Mansfield and build a feeder highway, cars only, from I-84 to north campus and maybe extend it down the east side of campus, and it would be a lot easier to get to UConn. Then improve the highways elsewhere in the state.

 

[Husky25]

A referendum won't pass in Mansfield/Storrs because there is an "acceptable" alternative in East Hartford. Those townies are the largest NIMBY population in Connecticut.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Penn State has good freeway access. Extend I-384 to Mansfield and build a feeder highway, cars only, from I-84 to north campus and maybe extend it down the east side of campus, and it would be a lot easier to get to UConn. Then improve the highways elsewhere in the state.

I-84 was supposed to run from Hartford to Providence via I-384 and those random segments of Route 6 that is a highway in Willimantic and that spur off of I-395. RI shot down their portion of I-84 due to concerns over building the highway over the Scituate Reservoir, which is Providence's primary water source, and then CT gave-up shortly thereafter. I-84 was then renumbered up to Sturbridge and thus eliminating I-86. That was the best chance that UConn had to get a highway near it. There was talk about widening Route 6 to highway standards to Willimantic, in part due to it's reputational name of 'Suicide 6;' but such attempts have been killed. There is no chance of linking Storrs to a highway today, especially with highway re-construction needs elsewhere (Hartford viaduct, Waterbury Mixmaster, completing Route 11) etc.). Best UConn can hope for is for US 44 or Route 195 to be widened between I-84 and Storrs, which would then look something like Route 34 between Derby and New Haven or Route 5 between Meriden and Hartford (less the stores).

http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/pics/art-hfd-fwy-60s.png

 

[SubbaBub]

Penn State has good freeway access. Extend I-384 to Mansfield and build a feeder highway, cars only, from I-84 to north campus and maybe extend it down the east side of campus, and it would be a lot easier to get to UConn. Then improve the highways elsewhere in the state.

That freeway is about 7 years old. Wasn't a factor, for 8 days a year they dealt with it. What they did do is adjust their parking scheme once it was finished.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

I'm sorry - were you outraged last week when FSU got a "gift call" against ND to scratch out a win? The refs served to keep the ACC's only hope in the Football playoffs alive with that call. I hope ND learned a lesson. Half ass membership in a conference gets you half ass treatment. The ACC wants to protect its own and ND is not included.

I understand you're trying to give an analogy but that replay showed the ND wide receiver holding the FSU defender, preventing him from trying to defend the other receiver. Is the ACC perfect? Hell naw. Was Sandusky protected by the PSU old guard until he was caught? I think so. Does it change the fact that Penn State was jobbed Saturday night? No, it doesn't.

Too much of this happens it doesn't matter about the academic associations and TV monies, etc.. Integrity still matters, even when UNC and FSU continually let people down. I don't defend either of those schools' actions.

Look, you think I'm rooting for this to happen. No, what I'm saying is schools have known to change conferences for reasons other than money. PSU's perception of the Big Ten's treatment of them since they joined could be a catalyst for change. That's all I'm saying.

There was always a segment of the Texas A&M fanbase that wanted to join the SEC but weren't strong enough to force a change. Then, in one year, all that changed. Don't assume that the Big Ten is some kind of fortress that can't be breached. Things change. Organizations that don't manage feedback are looked at as stubborn and resistance to change can corrode even the most historic companies. The ACC didn't heed certain warning signs and we paid the price with losing Maryland.

Just some friendly advice.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Except for these:

PSU point of view

1. Academic mission -Sorry, but staying in the Big10/CiC is much more aligned with what's really important to the university, educating students. PSU has said many times that CiC membership has brought up the level of academics that wouldn't (or couldn't) have happened without it. I'm not saying that the academics would drop of they went to the ACC (it's schools are very good, as good as the Big10), but they would have to start over. PSU is a large research school already intertwined into the other Big10 schools. Breaking those chains would harm the main purpose of the school.

2. Money - The Big10 schools already make more than The ACC schools do and stand to make more, much more in the next few years.

3. Image - PSU is trying to put a decimating incident and the image issues it caused behind them. The Big10 is not perfect (tattoo gate at OSU, stretch gate at Michigan), but The ACC is getting reputation of going rogue. UNC, 'Cuse, FSU, all are in the midst of issues that could really harm the image of The ACC. I understand this is a stretch, but I know the admin of PSU will not put the image of the school in jeopardy again.

Big10 point of view

1. It's Pitt - Pitt has no where near the appeal nor the draw of PSU. Pitt barely captures Pittsburgh let alone the entire state. Nationally, Pitt doesn't even register.

2. It's Pitt - They don't fit the mark of a Big10 school. They are small and private. They are a great university and a top notch research school, but that's the only similarity.

3. Location - Pitt is Midwestern. PSU is Eastern. Pitt doesn't fit where The Big10 wants to be.

4. It's Pitt

So you're saying that you'd rather soldier on with 13 members (and no lacrosse or hockey conference-sponsored league) than take in schools you consider "beneath" your standards.

OK, then. The Big 12 and ACC had other ideas and they're still fine.