B1G/SEC Collab | Page 4 | The Boneyard

B1G/SEC Collab

So...the other conferences say "we don't have enough input" and the P2 answers "no..it is we that don't yet have enough. Shut up and sit down."

The SEC and Sankey are locked and loaded and ready to kick off a separation of the B1G and SEC....The ACC and Big 12 are no longer even a fictional player in the wrongly labelled P4.

"Prestige is the shadow of power and money."
 
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billybud said:
So...the other conferences say "we don't have enough input" and the P2 answers "no..it is we that don't yet have enough. Shut up and sit down."

The SEC and Sankey are locked and loaded and ready to kick off a separation of the B1G and SEC....The ACC and Big 12 are no longer even a fictional player in the wrongly labelled P4.

"Prestige is the shadow of power and money."
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Billy,

I'm sorry if you take offense to my comments that may appear as me being unsympathetic to your school's plight, but I am in fact unsympathetic to your school's plight.

Anyone who did not see this as the eventual outcome twenty to twenty five years ago was blind, some were intentionally blind.

Your conference went out of its way, on a few occasions to destroy the Big East and in the process just made the path easier for the B1G and SEC to reach their goals. Your school was complicit and many of the steps that eventually made things easier for the P-2 and the demise of the Pac-12.

We are where we are because a handful of conferences who were not quite at the top tier felt it was better to attack conferences below them than emulate conferences above them. Basically you (the ACC) did a large part of the job the P-2 needed done to achieve their goals.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Billy,

I'm sorry if you take offense to my comments that may appear as me being unsympathetic to your school's plight, but I am in fact unsympathetic to your school's plight.

Anyone who did not see this as the eventual outcome twenty to twenty five years ago was blind, some were intentionally blind.

Your conference went out of its way, on a few occasions to destroy the Big East and in the process just made the path easier for the B1G and SEC to reach their goals. Your school was complicit and many of the steps that eventually made things easier for the P-2 and the demise of the Pac-12.

We are where we are because a handful of conferences who were not quite at the top tier felt it was better to attack conferences below them than emulate conferences above them. Basically you (the ACC) did a large part of the job the P-2 needed done to achieve their goals.
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I lol'd at that opening sentence and the rest was spot on.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Billy,

I'm sorry if you take offense to my comments that may appear as me being unsympathetic to your school's plight, but I am in fact unsympathetic to your school's plight.

Anyone who did not see this as the eventual outcome twenty to twenty five years ago was blind, some were intentionally blind.

Your conference went out of its way, on a few occasions to destroy the Big East and in the process just made the path easier for the B1G and SEC to reach their goals. Your school was complicit and many of the steps that eventually made things easier for the P-2 and the demise of the Pac-12.

We are where we are because a handful of conferences who were not quite at the top tier felt it was better to attack conferences below them than emulate conferences above them. Basically you (the ACC) did a large part of the job the P-2 needed done to achieve their goals.
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Oh yes...I have seen this coming from a long way.....when I was in school 55 years ago...it was all about the Big Ten...they had the tradition, the big fan bases. Pre 1984, certain conferences were prioritized with the limited telecasts (ABC had exclusive rights from 1961-1984) You could play out a career at a school like FSU, Southern Miss, Duke, etc and never be seen on TV during the regular season. We listened to games on the radio...

If you think about it, the unfettering of football telecasting post 1984 and the massive turn to funding football in contracts caught many by surprise. The ACC's Swofford said that as late as 1990 basketball brought in more media money to the ACC than football and the ACC was too slow to realize that the tide was turning. Some fans of some schools were dismayed at the hold that basketball schools still held on the conference.

I am not unsympathetic to the Big East...but it was an awkward beast as was/is the ACC...some football schools, some basketball schools, and a bunch of private schools...the ACC was similar....the SEC's Vanderbilt is their only private and Northwestern is the B1G's only private to the ACC's eight privates.

But money was always going to be the determinate of what college football would become...media contracts, and the rapidly changing environment of court settlements and NIL, has created ever widening chasms between programs...Heck, Miami just got a commitment from the top prep OT...at $2 million per year in his NIL, he earns as much or more than 80 NFL offensive linemen.


"what rough beast, it's hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born ? "
 
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When you were born in 1946 as I was, you have lived through a lot of changes...and things always change and change can be uncomfortable.

The monetizing of an NFL like upper tier of college football was only a matter of time...and the abdication of control by the NCAA, lubricated by the courts, has only accelerated the demise of the college football that we once knew.
 
I just read the NFL can opt out of most of its TV packages in 2029.

I know the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 protects HS/College football on Fridays and Saturdays, but hasn't CFB become a professional league and competitor (in addition to the UFL) to the NFL? As noted above, an OT on Miami is making as much or more than 80 NFL linemen?!?

If I were the NFL, would it make sense to challenge the act and bring to market in 2029 a package where every game is nationally televised? I would imagine the only thing holding back that windfall is the availability of Friday and Saturday time slots....
 
billybud said:
So...the other conferences say "we don't have enough input" and the P2 answers "no..it is we that don't yet have enough. Shut up and sit down."

The SEC and Sankey are locked and loaded and ready to kick off a separation of the B1G and SEC....The ACC and Big 12 are no longer even a fictional player in the wrongly labelled P4.

"Prestige is the shadow of power and money."
Expand ...

The national media isn't even pretending there is a P4 any more.
The Big12 and ACC commishes admitting they voted not in best interest of their conference but rather as a bending of the knee to reality, put final nail in P4.

It's a P2, then two two highly paid toads, then the rest of college conferences.
 
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billybud said:
When you were born in 1946 as I was, you have lived through a lot of changes...and things always change and change can be uncomfortable.

The monetizing of an NFL like upper tier of college football was only a matter of time...and the abdication of control by the NCAA, lubricated by the courts, has only accelerated the demise of the college football that we once knew.
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And eventually courts and politicians from the states are going to get involved.
When that happens Conference Commissioners like the SEC who has made public statements, also the Big. TV executives all will be in court and congress trying to explain why they should allow it.
Then they will demand records, emails, testimony.
After the courts and states get done with them their will be a court appointed Commissioner over the entire thing.
And you already saw what the TV people will do before they have to open the books. Florida St, Clemson, Florida, and South Carolina against the ACC and ESPN, they might have won the case against the schools, but didn't want to open their books.
Probably around the time of the Big 12 contract you will start to see courts and states getting involved.
 
Actually, the ACC/ESPN lost the case big time that FSU/Clemson brought...

The Wizard behind the curtain was exposed...

1...the GOR binding through 2036 as was put forth...is no longer a stopper for leaving.

  • The cost to exit the ACC before the end of the current grant of rights agreement (2036) will be reduced. The fee will start at $165 million for the 2026 fiscal year, decreasing by $18 million annually until reaching a flat $75 million in 2030-31.

  • Departing schools will retain their media rights when they pay the reduced exit fee.

FSU got what they wanted...more money, an admittance that they could leave with all rights...by paying an amount that was negotiated and which decreases yearly. And nobody will have to wait until 2036.
 
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billybud said:
Actually, the ACC/ESPN lost the case big time that FSU/Clemson brought...

The Wizard behind the curtain was exposed...

1...the GOR binding through 2036 as was put forth...is no longer a stopper for leaving.

  • The cost to exit the ACC before the end of the current grant of rights agreement (2036) will be reduced. The fee will start at $165 million for the 2026 fiscal year, decreasing by $18 million annually until reaching a flat $75 million in 2030-31.

  • Departing schools will retain their media rights when they pay the reduced exit fee.

FSU got what they wanted...more money, an admittance that they could leave with all rights...by paying an amount that was negotiated and which decreases yearly. And nobody will have to wait until 2036.
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Agreed. While FSU's Perception may have taken a minor hit in the media, they ultimately got what they wanted with the suit. A clear understanding of the ACC GOR. 2030 will be chaos. The Noles, Canes, Heels, and Tigers will all likely be on the move. Some combination of others like VPI, GT, Pitt, Ville, NCSU, Stanford and Cal could find themselves elsewhere as well. Ultimately, I think it opens up a spot for The Huskies in a reconfigured ACC, which could still be an attractive East Coast football & basketball option.
 
Ldandy said:
Agreed. While FSU's Perception may have taken a minor hit in the media, they ultimately got what they wanted with the suit. A clear understanding of the ACC GOR. 2030 will be chaos. The Noles, Canes, Heels, and Tigers will all likely be on the move. Some combination of others like VPI, GT, Pitt, Ville, NCSU, Stanford and Cal could find themselves elsewhere as well. Ultimately, I think it opens up a spot for The Huskies in a reconfigured ACC, which could still be an attractive East Coast football & basketball option.
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You know...Clemson's board meetings are closed and not open to public or reporters....the reason FSU seems almost alone in this suit (in public perception) is because of Florida's laws. Every meeting between two or more BOT members must be publicly noticed in Florida and proceedings are open to the public/press.

Clemson's BOT was free to discuss, table bang, or whatever...we will never know because the proceedings are kept secret.

But it is FSU's tenacity that did expose the ACC's secretive manipulations regarding the GOR, ESPN Agreement, the hidden clause in the ESPN Agreement that the ESPN Contract ended in 2027 unless extended in 2021....The ACC tried to hide that and the lawyers caught them....and thus a settlement. ACC/ESPN probably didn't relish the idea of John Skipper and Swofford on the stand being questioned regarding Swofford's insistence on Raycom as a sub (and the re-examiniing of his son as a Raycom exec.)

I think it was a learning experience for FSU...in that you can't sign things without review, pesky public information laws or not. And when your contract partners keep the actual documents a top code, red letter top secret...you know that something is rotten in Denmark.

But FSU was always the red headed step child of the ACC....winning 10 of the first 11 ACC football championships after their entrance rubbed the proud Carolina crowd the wrong way...and then a study was initiated and published illustrating the ACC's attempts to hobble the strong football teams via officiating. The officiating turned around some when it became clear that it was being reviewed by outside consultants.

My fate cries out,
And makes each petty artery in this body
As hardy as the Nemean lion’s nerve.
Still am I call’d. Unhand me, gentlemen.
 
.-.
Hamilton isn't wrong...although he is a Charleston based writer tagged as a "Coot" by Clemson fans (a Coot is a Gamecock fan).

Anybody that is a fan of college football saw the marriage of ESPN to the SEC was creating this future. Exclusive airing rights, primary product, TV talking heads that tout the product "owned by the ESPN". it isn't just the SEC. It is the union of a network with what they acknowlege is a primary product.

Having networks televising games of certain conferences as a primary product while also having sports news/talk shows that hype the network's holdings has led us to where we are. A business will promote it's wares over those of another company.

The ACC, and maybe the PAC, and B12, have to have seen where this would lead. I know that the FSU BOT did years ago but was told that, until 2036, they had to just quietly toe the line. Until FSU and Clemson decided to do a Butch and Sundance...jump together off the cliff into the river yelling "yehaw". Dead if you don't...maybe dead if you do...yehaw !
 
billybud said:
You know...Clemson's board meetings are closed and not open to public or reporters....the reason FSU seems almost alone in this suit (in public perception) is because of Florida's laws. Every meeting between two or more BOT members must be publicly noticed in Florida and proceedings are open to the public/press.

Clemson's BOT was free to discuss, table bang, or whatever...we will never know because the proceedings are kept secret.

But it is FSU's tenacity that did expose the ACC's secretive manipulations regarding the GOR, ESPN Agreement, the hidden clause in the ESPN Agreement that the ESPN Contract ended in 2027 unless extended in 2021....The ACC tried to hide that and the lawyers caught them....and thus a settlement. ACC/ESPN probably didn't relish the idea of John Skipper and Swofford on the stand being questioned regarding Swofford's insistence on Raycom as a sub (and the re-examiniing of his son as a Raycom exec.)

I think it was a learning experience for FSU...in that you can't sign things without review, pesky public information laws or not. And when your contract partners keep the actual documents a top code, red letter top secret...you know that something is rotten in Denmark.

But FSU was always the red headed step child of the ACC....winning 10 of the first 11 ACC football championships after their entrance rubbed the proud Carolina crowd the wrong way...and then a study was initiated and published illustrating the ACC's attempts to hobble the strong football teams via officiating. The officiating turned around some when it became clear that it was being reviewed by outside consultants.

My fate cries out,
And makes each petty artery in this body
As hardy as the Nemean lion’s nerve.
Still am I call’d. Unhand me, gentlemen.
Expand ...
FSU's Leadership could have handled things better publicly then they did. A few came off like pouting children at times, but ultimately, they procured the info that they needed. I'm interested to see where your 2030 destination will be. I imagine that there are ongoing back-channel conversations with both the SEC and B1G occurring. I can't imagine that FSU would go through this exercise to force their way into the Big 12. Any intel from your end? I'd welcome FSU into The B1G, however I can understand why your fan base might prefer the SEC.
 
greenday61892 said:
Or expand to 16 and every single conference champion, G5 included.
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That's what would be the best for College Football. It would make every single FBS more invested in the season and playoffs. Imagine, every Football fan in the country (of an FBS conference school) begins the season with a realistic shot at making the Playoffs. Even if you don't make it, there would a team you're familar with in the playoffs.


If they did this then the at large bids and even the seeding can all go according to some ranking formula that would undoubtedly give the vast majority of the at large bids and top seeds to P2 schools. I'd be fine with that. Sure, the first round would have blowouts but so does March Madness and it's awesome.

If this happened, then I'd be fine with UConn pursing a G5 football only membership (i.e. Sunbelt, Mac, Conference USA, PAC12, etc.).
 
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I can't see the P2 splitting off unless they grow to 32 teams each. Otherwise there would be too many programs that would be left out and I can't see FSU and Clemson being left behind. In the Top 25 alone last year there were 11 programs not in the P2. 12 if you count ND. There will still be exceptional football played outside the P2.

Perhaps it will be the P2 plus independents by invitation. Then you could see the likes of FSU, Clemson, Miami going the indie route and joining ND and UConn to play their way into the P2. :cool:
 
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Kolumbo said:
I can't see the P2 splitting off unless they grow to 32 teams each. Otherwise there would be too many programs that would be left out and I can't see FSU and Clemson being left behind. In the Top 25 alone last year there were 11 programs not in the P2. 12 if you count ND. There will still be exceptional football played outside the P2.

Perhaps it will be the P2 plus independents by invitation. Then you could see the likes of FSU, Clemson, Miami going the indie route and joining ND and UConn to play their way into the P2. :cool:
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This assumes they care about the quality of the product and not just the embarrassment of riches lining their pockets
 
Ldandy said:
FSU's Leadership could have handled things better publicly then they did. A few came off like pouting children at times, but ultimately, they procured the info that they needed. I'm interested to see where your 2030 destination will be. I imagine that there are ongoing back-channel conversations with both the SEC and B1G occurring. I can't imagine that FSU would go through this exercise to force their way into the Big 12. Any intel from your end? I'd welcome FSU into The B1G, however I can understand why your fan base might prefer the SEC.
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The word earlier was that the P2 wanted FSU to come to a conclusion of their legal wranglings before earnest talks began. Back channel contacts were made....

But, it may not be university presidents that make the decision...it may be the networks with their hands up their back moving the mouth...I really do believe BC's Gene DeFelippo, presiding over the ACC's expansion committee at the time, when he famously said "ESPN told us what to do"...he later apologized to the ACC..

"We always keep our television partners close to us,’’ he said. "You don’t get extra money for basketball. It’s 85 percent football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing to do with basketball.’’
Expand ...
 
The B1G may be cool on FSU because of the lack of belonging to the AAU....The SEC may cool to FSU for several reasons...team player concerns, no new geographical reach...

While the SEC seems a more natural fit for FSU than the B1G...FSU and their fans are still very unhappy with ESPN and I assume for ESPN, vice versa. But, no matter what, I don't see the ACC welcoming FSU with a hug...FSU has already told that wife that they no longer love her and want to negotiate a split. From that, there is no real going on like it didn't happen.

Who knows...

The problem, even with more funds, is holding on while prime TV slots are all taken, the CFP dice are loaded.etc...those outside of the P2 will assuredly be Children of a Lesser God.
 
greenday61892 said:
This assumes they care about the quality of the product and not just the embarrassment of riches lining their pockets
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True. At some point fans, politicians, whoever will have to step in and fight for their universities. Why should Mississippi and Indiana have 2 winners each while Florida only has 1? Plus you have to have Virginia and North Carolina covered, and the Big 12 footprint covers what the Big Ten and SEC don't.
 
Kolumbo said:
I can't see the P2 splitting off unless they grow to 32 teams each. Otherwise there would be too many programs that would be left out and I can't see FSU and Clemson being left behind. In the Top 25 alone last year there were 11 programs not in the P2. 12 if you count ND. There will still be exceptional football played outside the P2.

Perhaps it will be the P2 plus independents by invitation. Then you could see the likes of FSU, Clemson, Miami going the indie route and joining ND and UConn to play their way into the P2. :cool:
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The Great Independent Conference :D
 
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