B1G/Big East Hoop Series

[Dooley]

Considering that MSG didn't sell out for the Big East Championship game, it's hard for the conference to maintain that it still "owns" MSG. Fast forward a few weeks from then, tickets for the Regional NCAA tournament sold for record prices and the venue was sold out and jumping.

Providence 65, Creighton 58
March 15, 2014
Conference Tournament
Big East Men's Basketball Tournament
Madison Square Garden (Manhattan, New York) - Neutral Site
Attendance: 15,290

 

[whaler11]

You guys have to get over MSG and the Big East Tournament you are going to drive yourselves crazy.

Everyone knows no future tourney at MSG will be like the old days. They are gone. They aren't coming back.

It doesn't matter if the Big Ten added UConn tomorrow and announxed a 50 year agreement to hold their tourney at MSG. It still would never be the old Big East Tourney.

 

[UConnJim]

Actually, I'd be VERY shocked if that were the case. I know a lot of people here think that the Big East is in a weak position on conference realignment matters, but there's really no reason why the Big East would do that with such a long-term ironclad agreement with MSG. This is much different from the A-10 situation where they would have been booted down the line from The Barclays Center if they didn't play ball with the ACC. (Note that the A-10 signed a contract to be back in that venue after the ACC has its 2-year run there, but that was only agreed after they made the concessions to the ACC.) MSG is pretty sacred to the Big East - that league has a very large part of their identity wrapped up on that *specific* venue, so I don't think they're letting the Big Ten in there at all. Sure, it would be great as a Big Ten fan to see the league get into MSG, but I can't really see why the Big East would do that in exchange for some regular season games. If there's an outside entity involved here, it would be much more likely to be Fox as opposed to MSG.

I disagree. I think you will see the Big 10 basketball tournament in MSG, but maybe once every 5 to 8 years. In that year, the Big East will play in Chicago which would be good for fans of DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, and Creighton.

 

[Gfunk]

I disagree. I think you will see the Big 10 basketball tournament in MSG, but maybe once every 5 to 8 years. In that year, the Big East will play in Chicago which would be good for fans of DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, and Creighton.

It's so inevitable, the Big East and BIG will further acculturation between the Northeast & Midwest, something done in the business world long ago. Why a salient strand of myopia still exists with vocal BIG fans on numerous boards is beyond me. OSU fans, in particular, feel threatened by adding basketball powers, but many seem all for adding schools within strong hs football cultures. I've been beyond floored by the economic reductionism too many BIG fans regurgitate, educational elitism as well - the conference, and I root for it, passionately mind you, has been a major disappointment in basketball and especially football for decades now - quantity of the wrong sort drive certain BIG fans, not quality in terms of winning a NC in the big two sports. The question should always hinge on high quality competition and academic upside, the rest takes care of itself. For example. if Frank and far more Illinois natives spent greater time on pressuring the Illini ADept into becoming say a basketball powerhouse, which they should be by now, as opposed to salivating over NC, Va or some odd combo of FSU and GT in the BIG, maybe they'd win a NC and actually retain the excess of 5 star recruits that leave the state on an annual basis. Did you see Illinois native Boatright dazzle his way to a NC Frank? How about Davis & Blackshear, Illinois natives as well, the years before? These kids likely stay if Illinois is a truly worthy, proven basketball program.

It's incredibly obvious that the Big East is roughly 50 % Midwestern in membership now. The other less stated fact about the Midwest is that the Big 12 has been a part of the footprint with the KS schools, Iowa State, & once Nebraska and Mizzou for a long time as well.

No offense Frank, but by default "habitus" you're projecting a lot of the nonsense that repeatedly cycles through your blog - you've got kooks on that board, which is why I avoid it these days, but I do love many of your posts and some of the regulars over there. I always have room in my tent for a fellow halfie with Asian roots - our backgrounds are always unique and less common than the mainstream.

 

[kyleslamb]

It's so inevitable, the Big East and BIG will further acculturation between the Northeast & Midwest, something done in the business world long ago. Why a salient strand of myopia still exists with vocal BIG fans on numerous boards is beyond me. OSU fans, in particular, feel threatened by adding basketball powers, but many seem all for adding schools within strong hs football cultures. I've been beyond floored by the economic reductionism too many BIG fans regurgitate, educational elitism as well - the conference, and I root for it, passionately mind you, has been a major disappointment in basketball and especially football for decades now - quantity of the wrong sort drive certain BIG fans, not quality in terms of winning a NC in the big two sports. The question should always hinge on high quality competition and academic upside, the rest takes care of itself. For example. if Frank and far more Illinois natives spent greater time on pressuring the Illini ADept into becoming say a basketball powerhouse, which they should be by now, as opposed to salivating over NC, Va or some odd combo of FSU and GT in the BIG, maybe they'd win a NC and actually retain the excess of 5 star recruits that leave the state on an annual basis. Did you see Illinois native Boatright dazzle his way to a NC Frank? How about Davis & Blackshear, Illinois natives as well, the years before? These kids likely stay if Illinois is a truly worthy, proven basketball program.

It's incredibly obvious that the Big East is roughly 50 % Midwestern in membership now. The other less stated fact about the Midwest is that the Big 12 has been a part of the footprint with the KS schools, Iowa State, & once Nebraska and Mizzou for a long time as well.

No offense Frank, but by default "habitus" you're projecting a lot of the nonsense that repeatedly cycles through your blog - you've got kooks on that board, which is why I avoid it these days, but I do love many of your posts and some of the regulars over there. I always have room in my tent for a fellow halfie with Asian roots - our backgrounds are always unique and less common than the mainstream.

Since when are OSU fans threatened by adding basketball powers? That's not the case at all. In fact, a ton of them would love to see North Carolina, Duke, Kansas or even Connecticut added.

There are some that might not agree with some or all of those schools, but it's not because they feel "threatened." It's simply not everyone believes it would be financially worth the addition(s). No one is "threatened" by it; most actually would love it.

 

[Fishy]

I'm going on the record that the Big East negotiated this deal by giving the B1G rotating access to MSG for their tourney.

No way.

It's basically a scheduling alliance and there's no where near enough in it to entice the Big East to give up their conference tourney home for even a year.

 

[OkaForPrez]

No way.

It's basically a scheduling alliance and there's no where near enough in it to entice the Big East to give up their conference tourney home for even a year.

So that leaves what plausible scenarios?

The DC announcement was scheduled and Deinhart wouldn't have put the 60 day tag on it.

It's an NYC tourney location, or?

 

[Fishy]

Think about it.

The absolute biggest thing the new Big East has is its conference tournament at Madison Square Garden.

Do you think they would part with that for something as relatively meaningless as a scheduling alliance with the Big Ten? Calling a spade a spade, the Big Ten is largely one screaming yawn of a hoop conference - the Big East is not going to trade the crown jewels for a year so that Providence can play Penn State.

 

[CL82]

Think about it.

The absolute biggest thing the new Big East has is its conference tournament at Madison Square Garden.

Do you think they would part with that for something as relatively meaningless as a scheduling alliance with the Big Ten? Calling a spade a spade, the Big Ten is largely one screaming yawn of a hoop conference - the Big East is not going to trade the crown jewels for a year so that Providence can play Penn State.

Unless they see the writing on the wall that they are in an expensive venue that they can't fill and are hoping that that alternating the location makes the MSG event have more cache. I also think that the scheduling arrangement is important to them as they may have realized that without the old Big East power teams they are creeping toward irrelevancy.

 

[kyleslamb]

Unless they see the writing on the wall that they are in an expensive venue that they can't fill and are hoping that that alternating the location makes the MSG event have more cache. I also think that the scheduling arrangement is important to them as they may have realized that without the old Big East power teams they are creeping toward irrelevancy.

True. The Big Ten isn't looking to make a permanent dwelling at MSG anyhow. It wouldn't surprise me if they're able to reach some sort of agreement where they hold the tournament there once every 4-5 years. Money talks and for the Big East, a partnership with the Big Ten could only help.

 

[Gfunk]

Since when are OSU fans threatened by adding basketball powers? That's not the case at all. In fact, a ton of them would love to see North Carolina, Duke, Kansas or even Connecticut added.

There are some that might not agree with some or all of those schools, but it's not because they feel "threatened." It's simply not everyone believes it would be financially worth the addition(s). No one is "threatened" by it; most actually would love it.

I disagree, it depends on which board & threads you're looking through. There have been plenty of naysayers, just a few OSU fans I can think of really want a school like UConn. Dilution arguments can also be viewed in "threatening terms" as fans feel their school's money pot is diminished in the process. I don't want to get into a semantics argument.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Maryland vs. Georgetown
Nebraska vs. Creighton
Wisconsin vs. Marquette
Indiana vs. Butler
Ohio State vs. Xavier
Northwestern vs. Depaul
Penn State vs. Villanova
Rutgers vs. Seton Hall

Never realized how much overlap there was between the two conferences.

 

[kyleslamb]

I disagree, it depends on which board & threads you're looking through. There have been plenty of naysayers, just a few OSU fans I can think of really want a school like UConn. Dilution arguments can also be viewed in "threatening terms" as fans feel their school's money pot is diminished in the process. I don't want to get into a semantics argument.

It's not semantics. Your implication was that they were threatened by having another good basketball school or rather lack of football. I haven't seen a single Ohio State fan that I felt was 'threatened' by that. I don't see any relation to being concerned that it would be a losing proposition to add such a school and equating that to being threatened, though.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maryland vs. Georgetown
Nebraska vs. Creighton
Wisconsin vs. Marquette
Indiana vs. Butler
Ohio State vs. Xavier
Northwestern vs. Depaul
Penn State vs. Villanova
Rutgers vs. Seton Hall

Never realized how much overlap there was between the two conferences.

Wow, those are some really great local matches.

 

[Gfunk]

It's not semantics. Your implication was that they were threatened by having another good basketball school or rather lack of football. I haven't seen a single Ohio State fan that I felt was 'threatened' by that. I don't see any relation to being concerned that it would be a losing proposition to add such a school and equating that to being threatened, though.

Now you're being naive & I'm not going to do your research for you or what the word "threat" can mean - which in part clearly implies a fear/loss of cultural, economic, prestigious, or competitive identification - familiar sort. There have been so many boards that suggest such & plenty of OSU fans in this camp & I'm not the only one who has called these fans out on it. I mean look at the most recent EPSN story, the FB replies: "BIG Tourney in DC". A boat load of cultural myopia - fear or loss of Midwestern identity on there, whatever that means in the age of high capitalism and global interdependence - finer print designates Ohio roots for some of these posters. Come on now.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Maryland vs. Georgetown
Nebraska vs. Creighton
Wisconsin vs. Marquette
Indiana vs. Butler
Ohio State vs. Xavier
Northwestern vs. Depaul
Penn State vs. Villanova
Rutgers vs. Seton Hall

Never realized how much overlap there was between the two conferences.

3 of those games, Wisky/Marq, NW/Depaul and Rutgirls/SHU happen every year anyway.

 

[Drew]

3 of those games, Wisky/Marq, NW/Depaul and Rutgirls/SHU happen every year anyway.

neb and creighton as well

 

[pj]

True. The Big Ten isn't looking to make a permanent dwelling at MSG anyhow. It wouldn't surprise me if they're able to reach some sort of agreement where they hold the tournament there once every 4-5 years. Money talks and for the Big East, a partnership with the Big Ten could only help.

Now that the Big East has a lot of Midwestern teams, they might want to play in the Midwest once in a while. They can do a wife-swap tourney venue-swap once in a while with the B1G, trading MSG for Chicago, just to confuse the fans.

 

[tzznandrew]

The B1G is going to be making so much money they can literally buy the media rights to some mid-tier conference for almost nothing and run those games on the B1G network if they wanted and needed more live sporting events. Not a relegation system, but something that feels sort of like it--especially if they have the B1G teams play say, two OOC games against those schools.

Do I think they'd do that? Probably not. But they'll be rich enough to, and perhaps they start trying to get a little more creative.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Maryland vs. Georgetown
Nebraska vs. Creighton
Wisconsin vs. Marquette
Indiana vs. Butler
Ohio State vs. Xavier
Northwestern vs. Depaul
Penn State vs. Villanova
Rutgers vs. Seton Hall

Never realized how much overlap there was between the two conferences.

UConn v Providence would fit that list well.

 

[Ldandy]

Unless they see the writing on the wall that they are in an expensive venue that they can't fill and are hoping that that alternating the location makes the MSG event have more cache. I also think that the scheduling arrangement is important to them as they may have realized that without the old Big East power teams they are creeping toward irrelevancy.

Good post. Not much to argue with here IMO. The old Big East Tournament was unquestionably the greatest conference tournament hosted in the best venue. Personally I have little interest in basketball, but despite that I can say that I've watched plenty of BE Tourney Games and found them highly compelling.

All that said, this is not the old Big East we are talking about. Sure the conference still has the name and the venue, but it is not the same product. You can't take away UCONN, Cuse, sPitt, and Ville and not expect to miss a beat. IMO The B1G will be more involved with FOX going forward, and as a part of that relationship will be more interaction with its properties like The New Big East. I could see games even showing up on The B1G potentially in markets where the leagues overlap. I don't think it would kill the membership of The NBE to give up MSG once or twice a decade to play in Chicago, Indy or somewhere else in the Midwest.

 

[Kolumbo]

BIG can have RU and MD.