B12 Related - Why is UConn's brand so tainted?

[kibblesnbits]

I think UConn's brand is fine. The Huskies are respected in most of their primary sports and the one exception, football, is on the way back. CT is just a small state in a pro sports centric part of the country. It doesn't help that those that went before us really haven't delivered the promised markets. BC didn't deliver New England (or even most of Massachusetts) to the ACC. Syracuse didn't deliver NY. Rutgers hasn't delivered NY for the Big 10 either. I think leagues and their fans are skittish about any school in the Northeast providing signficant penetration beyond its primary market.

 

[giddyup]

We will be fine. Rephrase: we are fine. We just won a 5th national championship in 24 years.

The entire B12 has won 3 over the same period (2 Kansas/1Baylor).

The Big10 has a grand total of 1 22 years ago.

Throw in the Women who basically put W BB on the map.

Throw in a resurgent football program.

Throw in a top 20 baseball team.

If a P5 is too stupid to take us, we will just keep kicking their rear ends and embarrassing them. Eph them all. We play with chips on our shoulders.

 

[UCFBfan]

Bottom line is that the sport that drives the bus in realignment is the one we have royally screwed up on at the wrong times. All the momentum we had after the Fiesta Bowl left when RE left for MD and then the ACC made their final move and we got relegated to the AAC. Then, we destroy the entire program under Diaco and RE 2.0 and now we are not desirable because no one really values the sport we are, and have always been, dominant in, basketball. Mora has something going and hopefully the Big 12 is willing to take the risk that he can really get things going with Big 12 affiliation.

 

[UCFBfan]

I think UConn's brand is fine. The Huskies are respected in most of their primary sports and the one exception, football, is on the way back. CT is just a small state in a pro sports centric part of the country. It doesn't help that those that went before us really haven't delivered the promised markets. BC didn't deliver New England (or even most of Massachusetts) to the ACC. Syracuse didn't deliver NY. Rutgers hasn't delivered NY for the Big 10 either. I think leagues and their fans are skittish about any school in the Northeast providing signficant penetration beyond its primary market.

I agree with this but I think it's also a reason why the Big 12 is our best hope at this point. The ACC and B1G have all the NE presence they need. Whether they made the right moves (BC) is on them, but they are in the markets. The Big 12 is no where near the Northeast and the best school to make in roads there is UConn. Outside of our basketball team and slowly rising football team, it's the biggest reason we're on the Big 12 radar IMO.

 

[hoopsfan22]

BC didn't deliver New England (or even most of Massachusetts) to the ACC. Syracuse didn't deliver NY. Rutgers hasn't delivered NY for the Big 10 either. I think leagues and their fans are skittish about any school in the Northeast providing signficant penetration beyond its primary market.

Because those are schools that never win anything. It's like that in pro sports too. If the team sucks it will generally have a low following and engagement. Do the conferences think people are going to get excited about a school's number of PhDs or the total federal research expenditure? Somewhere along the way athletic conferences made athletics secondary such that having teams that win was not that important anymore, so they chase all of these other factors and then wonder why no one cares about their teams.

 

[UCFBfan]

Because those are schools that never win anything. It's like that in pro sports too. If the team sucks it will generally have a low following and engagement. Do the conferences think people are going to get excited about a school's number of PhDs or the total federal research expenditure? Somewhere along the way athletic conferences made athletics secondary such that having teams that win was not that important anymore, so they chase all of these other factors and then wonder why no one cares about their teams.

I'll add to this and say Rutgers did EXACTLY what the B1G wanted. It put their network on a boat load of cable boxes in the NYC market. Don't forget that when they were added, TV markets and cable boxes still mattered. The B1G didn't care about success, they just wanted the money that the NYC market could bring. If anything, they added Rutgers because they knew they were so inept that they basically just gave them the NYC market access without ever being a threat to their main programs' success.

 

[CTBballfan243]

No matter what we do, no matter how many bball championships, no matter the progress shown in football, based on what i'm seeing aroudn the internet, it really seems like UConn's athletic brand simply does not make a dent with people. Folks outside our immediate fanbase/community, are not excited about us, and thus us being a part of their favorite team's conference. And utlimately, that's what drives eyeballs and thus $$ - regardless of actual on-the-field success.

i'm a relatively new fan, so i'm so confused by the lukewarm reception. What happened to us, that has made this brand so difficult to position positively on a NATIONAL stage?
I know we're powerful in the Big East (a fairly local bball conference), but again - my question is about NATIONAL.

if someone has a fact/historical based explanation, i'd love some context & enlightenment, because this just doesn't make sense why college sports fans (FB/basketball) across the country find us boring/offensive/beneath them.

What i've seen so far:

• ACC has never wanted us and still doesn't, even though it's the perfect geographic fit and member profile (i.e. schools and matchups make the most sense for us, within P5)
• B1G has probably never heard of UConn (who?)
• SEC has prob never heard of the state of Connecticut, much less UConn
• Pac12 just doesn't make sense, so didn't look around for threads/chats on that potential relationship
• Big 12 - only possible connection, but fans across the conference hate us/the idea of this happening.

UConn’s Brand is fine. It’s never been stronger. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Should be another fantastic year of UConn athletics. UConn is the premier attic program in the Northeast.

 

[NH Husky]

So BYU, UCF, and Houston were all big time schools and their move to a P5 before us is just getting them back to where they were before we were FBS?

UCF and Houston deserved the call up.
I was referring to the likes of Wake, Minnesota, Missouri, etc.
Boise State deserved it too. Guess they’re tainted too.
Good call on Rutgers but we all know they only “deserved” it cause they’re parked right next to NYC

 

[Ldandy]

UConn is in a tough spot. On one hand the school needs to show solidarity with the conference that they are currently a part of, as there are no guarantees in conference realignment. On the other hand, your PR Dept should be Tweeting out positive information regarding UConn Sports, Facilities, and Academics on a non-stop basis. Get a charm offensive going.

The ignorance regarding both your athletic accomplishments and the overall quality of the school's academic reputation is eye opening. I've always had an interest in the business side of sports, so I read a number of other teams' boards. I've been trying to fight the good fight for you guys on The Kansas 247 Sports Board, but I haven't found much success LOL. Some of their fans see a parallel to their own program. Strong basketball, rebuilding football, state school etc. A few even remarked that if things went differently around a decade ago, that they could have ended up in a similar spot as you guys are in now.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority dismiss the school out of hand. The biggest disqualifier in their comments is they don't want any more G5 Schools in the conference. They completely ignore the fact that UConn has a very similar profile to their own school. If you mention that UConn actually has more National Titles than Kansas in the one sport that they truly care about, it will be meet with a lot of rapidly moving goalposts. The immediate pivot becomes Final Four appearances or all-time winning percentage. When I mention that UConn is a Public Ivy and strong research institution, it is quickly countered with questions about USNWR Rankings or AAU Status. It's fairly maddening. I wish you guys all the best, and I'm hoping against hope that you get the chance to prove to all of the snobbish P5 non-believers what you can do against their schools on the fields and courts with an even footing.

 

[Kolumbo]

UConn is in a tough spot. On one hand the school needs to show solidarity with the conference that they are currently a part of, as there are no guarantees in conference realignment. On the other hand, your PR Dept should be Tweeting out positive information regarding UConn Sports, Facilities, and Academics on a non-stop basis. Get a charm offensive going.

The ignorance regarding both your athletic accomplishments and the overall quality of the school's academic reputation is eye opening. I've always had an interest in the business side of sports, so I read a number of other teams' boards. I've been trying to fight the good fight for you guys on The Kansas 247 Sports Board, but I haven't found much success LOL. Some of their fans see a parallel to their own program. Strong basketball, rebuilding football, state school etc. A few even remarked that if things went differently around a decade ago that they could have ended up in a similar spot as you guys are in now.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority dismiss the school out of hand. The biggest disqualifier in their comments is they don't want any more G5 Schools in the conference. They completely ignore the fact that UConn has a very similar profile to their own school. If you mention that UConn actually has more National Titles than Kansas in the one sport that they truly care about, it will be meet with a lot of rapidly moving goalposts. The immediate pivot becomes Final Four appearances or all-time winning percentage. When I mention that UConn is a Public Ivy and strong research institution it is met with USNWR Rankings or AAU Status. It's fairly maddening.

You can always point out that Kansas State has not won a single national championship in any sport. Then you got the UCF fans who think they are somehow better than UConn. It's craziness. I'm sure most fans are more open minded about UConn but some of the online folks are way out there.

 

[hoopsfan22]

You can always point out that Kansas State has not won a single national championship in any sport. Then you got the UCF fans who think they are somehow better than UConn. It's craziness. I'm sure most fans are more open minded about UConn but some of the online folks are way out there.

Hard to believe, but UCF went from C-USA to AAC to Big 12 in the span of a decade while we went Old Big East to AAC to New Big East in that same time frame. One school is ascendant, the other is descendant in terms of conference affiliation.

 

[Kolumbo]

Hard to believe, but UCF went from C-USA to AAC to Big 12 in the span of a decade while we went Old Big East to AAC to New Big East in that same time frame. One school is ascendant, the other is descendant in terms of conference affiliation.

I give UCF credit for actually going from Independent in 2001 and even the MAC in 2004 to getting to the Big 12, although this Big 12 isn't the same Big 12 of Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc. UCF's location is the key. I wouldn't say UConn has descended. UConn has made only one move in all that time, from the AAC to the New Big East and Independent in Football. UConn's path certainly is unique but that's part of the charm.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

UConn is in a tough spot. On one hand the school needs to show solidarity with the conference that they are currently a part of, as there are no guarantees in conference realignment. On the other hand, your PR Dept should be Tweeting out positive information regarding UConn Sports, Facilities, and Academics on a non-stop basis. Get a charm offensive going.

The ignorance regarding both your athletic accomplishments and the overall quality of the school's academic reputation is eye opening. I've always had an interest in the business side of sports, so I read a number of other teams' boards. I've been trying to fight the good fight for you guys on The Kansas 247 Sports Board, but I haven't found much success LOL. Some of their fans see a parallel to their own program. Strong basketball, rebuilding football, state school etc. A few even remarked that if things went differently around a decade ago, that they could have ended up in a similar spot as you guys are in now.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority dismiss the school out of hand. The biggest disqualifier in their comments is they don't want any more G5 Schools in the conference. They completely ignore the fact that UConn has a very similar profile to their own school. If you mention that UConn actually has more National Titles than Kansas in the one sport that they truly care about, it will be meet with a lot of rapidly moving goalposts. The immediate pivot becomes Final Four appearances or all-time winning percentage. When I mention that UConn is a Public Ivy and strong research institution, it is quickly countered with questions about USNWR Rankings or AAU Status. It's fairly maddening. I wish you guys all the best, and I'm hoping against hope that you get the chance to prove to all of the snobbish P5 non-believers what you can do against their schools on the fields and courts with an even footing.

I read some of these same comments too. The sheer ignorance on those boards about UConn is mind boggling. In many ways, it is a reflection of America in general. If you traveled a bit internationally, you will realise the sheer amount of ignorance average Americans about the world is on another level.

I stopped reading these boards since as an UConn alum, the ignorance is beginning to hurt my brain cells.

 

[billybud]

Ultimately, the networks pay the bills for conference realignment...

So it is national viewers that are prized when coughing up money for additions.

And football brings in-season viewing in millions for the better matches every week and is valued, basketball less so...and non revenue not at all.

Duke and UNC are two of the most watched BB programs every year...do they really swing the needle for these programs without football viewing ?

UConn now is like where my alma mater was in the 1970's. A relatively new blood trying to compete with old blood brands with a 100 year head start...the B1G, SEC, etc...

A competitive football brand can be built, but it will take time and success on the field....

Folks need to see UConn on the football schedule and say "hey, this is a game I want to watch".

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Very nice write up! A couple of clarifications:

ESPN didn't do an analysis that Pitt brought the same value, ESPN just said we will give you the same media rights payment whether you take Pitt or UConn. If at that point in time Connecticut based ESPN says take Connecticut, the ACC does and our narrative changes dramatically.

Regarding Clemson and FSU's push for Louisville rather than Connecticut, the narrative at the time was that FSU in particular was annoyed about the Syracuse and Pittsburgh additions which they considered to be "basketball adds" and wanted to push back against the Tobacco Road leader ship of the conference. More than anything else, that was a muscle flex by FSU that lead to ESPN requiring a GOR from the ACC. Ironically, FSU is now complaining about the GOR. FSU in the ACC reminds me of Miami in the old Big East. They don't really want to be there and they fairly consistently seem to be poisoning the water hole.

Yep. There was a power struggle within the ACC. I believe UNC, Virginia, Duke, and NCST wanted UConn. FSU and Clemson were sick of North Carolina centric leadership of the ACC, and proceeded to push for UL because UL is less travel and more of a "football" school.

 

[uconnfan68]

12/10 summary. One thing that’s important to add though. It’s ok to have a down year or two or three as a football program. Hell even Kansas has been terrible for god knows how long. What ISNT ok though, is being so bad that you’re the laughing stock of the nation. And that’s what we were in terms of CFB from 2014-2022. You can be in the 90s or even 100s but if you’re 129 out of 131 programs in CFB for years on end, that leaves a stain that doesn’t go away easily. That’s why the brand is tarnished and the narrative that we don’t care about football perpetuates itself.

Thank ESPN for that. Their anyone-but-UConn announcers were more than happy to point out every flaw.

 

[Skies2018]

Thank ESPN for that. Their anyone-but-UConn announcers were more than happy to point out every flaw.

No I blame the coaches and the people who hired the coaches for that. Announcers don’t lose games, teams do. They can hate us all they want but if we’re winning they can’t say jack .

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not tainted. But we aren't very realistic about ourselves.

1. ACC - composed of southern schools. Added northern schools. But critically, didn't want to shift power to those schools. Perceived Louisville as southern and having football culture.
2. College football culture. We started a few decades too late and never developed it. If you disagree ask yourself if anyone gets married on Saturdays in the fall. Of course the do. Well they don't in college football country because the game comes first. Instead we set aside our Sundays for NFL games.
3. Alumni support - UConn's is awful. Private colleges dominate New England. Our endowment is embarrassingly small for a flagship public in a wealthy state.

Our pitch is essentially, if you let us in, we will change and develop what is needed. It's not a terrible pitch, because in the Big East we did that to some extent. At least started in that direction.

You can say BC doesn't have football culture either, but it's better than ours and BC has history. BC has Doug Flutie.

 

[uchusky32]

Simple, because this is what they want it to be. Because reality is that their sports as a whole don't stand up for many. They got the money. We have the trophies. We're not a Community College.

Competition is not just on the field. Money means more trophies for UConn. Brand recognition at who's expense?

 

[hoopsfan22]

Brand recognition at who's expense?

Most of the grandfathered P5 schools who've had a free ride for half a century most of which are worthless. Deep down they know that if they were on the outside looking in today, they'd be in a worse position than us, and that's the biggest reason they are so defensive. Don't worry guys, as far as we know, you can't just be kicked out of your cushy spot you don't earn. That's why they move the goalposts when you start pointing out facts and using their own metrics against them - it's all a defense mechanism and a bit of a sensitive subject.

 

[BlueandOG]

this is truly amazing to me. Can anyone kindly lay out what happened during RE2.0 era, to bring it so low? Assuming - as this poster states- that indeed Diaco and PP indeed didn't make the mess.

Google it

 

[manbyrd]

What always seemed frustrating about the old big east breakup was feeling like we would have been the next school to get a p5 invite. I'm sure USF and Cincinnati felt the same way but, trying to set aside biases, I think we had the better resume at the time.

As for the brand, it's a combination of football irrelevance and basketball inconsistency between the 2014 and 2023 championships with most of it being football. Basketball can carry weight but it does need to be consistent - Duke, UNC, Kansas etc. can remain national brands because they make the tournament every year and matchups are anticipated/watched each year. The Calhoun era had it and it feels like its back with Hurley but we have some years to go.

Only thing I'd add about football is that if we can build a regional brand that is at least competitive with Rutgers (we used to be) there is NCAAF market share to be gained in the NYC/Northeast. For about the last decade, the only games where you could count on a decent game would be against an FCS team or a UMass equivalent. First, we need bowl eligibility, then we need upsets then we need to be ranked. We did it before and we can do it again, A P5 invite would help a ton on that front.

 

[Skies2018]

just something that’s floating around Big 12 twitter that I think is relevant to what we’re talking about. Tbh I expected the numbers to be worse but they’re still not good. This is what the P5 schools see. And they’re not wrong for it. We really screwed up for a decade.

 

[billybud]

Simple, because this is what they want it to be. Because reality is that their sports as a whole don't stand up for many. They got the money. We have the trophies. We're not a Community College.

Competition is not just on the field. Money means more trophies for UConn. Brand recognition at who's expense?

There are trophies and then there are Trophies...

Does anyone care that UNC has 49 National Championships...Lacrosse, Soccer, Field Hockey...the only ones that count are the 6 Men's Basketball...and I know that the Heels may glance enviously at Clemson who only have 6 NC's...but three in Football.

 

[uchusky32]

There are trophies and then there are Trophies...

Does anyone care that UNC has 49 National Championships...Lacrosse, Soccer, Field Hockey...the only ones that count are the 6 Men's Basketball...and I know that the Heels may glance enviously at Clemson who only have 6 NC's...but three in Football.

What I'm saying is that there are the none NC's that have nothing debating about UConns worthiness.

 

[king conn]

UConn is in a tough spot. On one hand the school needs to show solidarity with the conference that they are currently a part of, as there are no guarantees in conference realignment. On the other hand, your PR Dept should be Tweeting out positive information regarding UConn Sports, Facilities, and Academics on a non-stop basis. Get a charm offensive going.

The ignorance regarding both your athletic accomplishments and the overall quality of the school's academic reputation is eye opening. I've always had an interest in the business side of sports, so I read a number of other teams' boards. I've been trying to fight the good fight for you guys on The Kansas 247 Sports Board, but I haven't found much success LOL. Some of their fans see a parallel to their own program. Strong basketball, rebuilding football, state school etc. A few even remarked that if things went differently around a decade ago, that they could have ended up in a similar spot as you guys are in now.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority dismiss the school out of hand. The biggest disqualifier in their comments is they don't want any more G5 Schools in the conference. They completely ignore the fact that UConn has a very similar profile to their own school. If you mention that UConn actually has more National Titles than Kansas in the one sport that they truly care about, it will be meet with a lot of rapidly moving goalposts. The immediate pivot becomes Final Four appearances or all-time winning percentage. When I mention that UConn is a Public Ivy and strong research institution, it is quickly countered with questions about USNWR Rankings or AAU Status. It's fairly maddening. I wish you guys all the best, and I'm hoping against hope that you get the chance to prove to all of the snobbish P5 non-believers what you can do against their schools on the fields and courts with an even footing.

Its actually very easy to explain.

Fear and jealousy

Jealous we have been able to accomplish what we have athletics wise, in most cases more than their schools, with less money

And fear of what we could do with their money

Even our weakness. football, our first decade of division 1 it culminated with how dare they reach a bcs bowl after only 10 years! Of all div 1 football playing schools, most never even reached that level of success after playing years and years.

And the Kansas fan base isn't stupid, they fear we will stamp the one thing they can brag about, basketball. They want us down as low as possible, nevermind in the same conference

 

[ScottVib]

For fun here's Colorado during the same interval:
Record: 44-73
0-2 in Bowl Games
5 Head Coaches
26-71 vs P5 Teams

 

[uchusky32]

For fun here's Colorado during the same interval:
Record: 44-73
0-2 in Bowl Games
5 Head Coaches
26-71 vs P5 Teams

How many BB championships?

 

[Skies2018]

For fun here's Colorado during the same interval:
Record: 44-73
0-2 in Bowl Games
5 Head Coaches
26-71 vs P5 Teams

Thats crazy I didn’t know we were that similar. Unsure why they don’t get the same heat then. Maybe because they have the big on campus stadium and a better history?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Problem #1 - it took us decades longer than it should have to start playing football at the highest level. We can whine about many schools in P-5 conferences that we believe don't belong and are not as deserving as us (far too many, especially on the men's hoops board do) but the reality is they were putting in the effort (financial commitments, establishing relationships and rivalries) decades before we played at what could have been labelled a similar level. Even a couple newcomers (relative to college football's history) Florida St and Virginia Tech were competing at a higher level from the Eisenhower administration.

Problem #2 - the overall view of the school's 'purpose' in the eyes of our local politicians and how this has permeated a large portion of our fan base. - As far as our political leaders were concerned after WWII (the same time Florida St went from all female to coeducational) our school was to help satisfy the GI Bill and provide an education to some of the childrebln of blue collar families. We were never to be a threat to the many private, elite universities (where all of those politicians were educated) and because of this attitude at the time, to this day any ambitions the school has need to be masked a bit before presentation as they knee-jerk response is always that the school should aim lower (and often ideas are killed at that point). Additionally, too many of our fans still hold memories of when Yale was shoved down our throats decades ago and to this day many pose the possibility of holding a UConn home game at the Yale Bowl.

3 - the increased competition for the few spots and the ease information (real or fabricated) can be broadcast in the information age. - when we reached the point where we may have been a candidate for a P-5 conference we were always one of at minimum a few schools worth consideration. It was too easy at this point for others to point out shortcomings (real or fictitious, like the Fiesta Bowl attendance). Add to this the fact that we not only dropped the ball with our coaching hire after the Fiesta Bowl, we compounded this twice with subsequent hires (I'll elaborate later).

We've had quite a bit working against us for far too long yet we've been able to excel in many fields. I am fully confident that if we do get the opportunity to play on a level field we will become one of a small group of schools who are at or near the top in all measurements.