BlueandOG
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B12 Related - Why is UConn's brand so tainted?
- Thread starter DMTCYNAW
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What always seemed frustrating about the old big east breakup was feeling like we would have been the next school to get a p5 invite. I'm sure USF and Cincinnati felt the same way but, trying to set aside biases, I think we had the better resume at the time.
As for the brand, it's a combination of football irrelevance and basketball inconsistency between the 2014 and 2023 championships with most of it being football. Basketball can carry weight but it does need to be consistent - Duke, UNC, Kansas etc. can remain national brands because they make the tournament every year and matchups are anticipated/watched each year. The Calhoun era had it and it feels like its back with Hurley but we have some years to go.
Only thing I'd add about football is that if we can build a regional brand that is at least competitive with Rutgers (we used to be) there is NCAAF market share to be gained in the NYC/Northeast. For about the last decade, the only games where you could count on a decent game would be against an FCS team or a UMass equivalent. First, we need bowl eligibility, then we need upsets then we need to be ranked. We did it before and we can do it again, A P5 invite would help a ton on that front.
As for the brand, it's a combination of football irrelevance and basketball inconsistency between the 2014 and 2023 championships with most of it being football. Basketball can carry weight but it does need to be consistent - Duke, UNC, Kansas etc. can remain national brands because they make the tournament every year and matchups are anticipated/watched each year. The Calhoun era had it and it feels like its back with Hurley but we have some years to go.
Only thing I'd add about football is that if we can build a regional brand that is at least competitive with Rutgers (we used to be) there is NCAAF market share to be gained in the NYC/Northeast. For about the last decade, the only games where you could count on a decent game would be against an FCS team or a UMass equivalent. First, we need bowl eligibility, then we need upsets then we need to be ranked. We did it before and we can do it again, A P5 invite would help a ton on that front.
just something that’s floating around Big 12 twitter that I think is relevant to what we’re talking about. Tbh I expected the numbers to be worse but they’re still not good. This is what the P5 schools see. And they’re not wrong for it. We really screwed up for a decade.
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There are trophies and then there are Trophies...
Does anyone care that UNC has 49 National Championships...Lacrosse, Soccer, Field Hockey...the only ones that count are the 6 Men's Basketball...and I know that the Heels may glance enviously at Clemson who only have 6 NC's...but three in Football.
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What I'm saying is that there are the none NC's that have nothing debating about UConns worthiness.
Its actually very easy to explain.
Fear and jealousy
Jealous we have been able to accomplish what we have athletics wise, in most cases more than their schools, with less money
And fear of what we could do with their money
Even our weakness. football, our first decade of division 1 it culminated with how dare they reach a bcs bowl after only 10 years! Of all div 1 football playing schools, most never even reached that level of success after playing years and years.
And the Kansas fan base isn't stupid, they fear we will stamp the one thing they can brag about, basketball. They want us down as low as possible, nevermind in the same conference
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How many BB championships?
Thats crazy I didn’t know we were that similar. Unsure why they don’t get the same heat then. Maybe because they have the big on campus stadium and a better history?
FfldCntyFan
Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
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Problem #1 - it took us decades longer than it should have to start playing football at the highest level. We can whine about many schools in P-5 conferences that we believe don't belong and are not as deserving as us (far too many, especially on the men's hoops board do) but the reality is they were putting in the effort (financial commitments, establishing relationships and rivalries) decades before we played at what could have been labelled a similar level. Even a couple newcomers (relative to college football's history) Florida St and Virginia Tech were competing at a higher level from the Eisenhower administration.
Problem #2 - the overall view of the school's 'purpose' in the eyes of our local politicians and how this has permeated a large portion of our fan base. - As far as our political leaders were concerned after WWII (the same time Florida St went from all female to coeducational) our school was to help satisfy the GI Bill and provide an education to some of the childrebln of blue collar families. We were never to be a threat to the many private, elite universities (where all of those politicians were educated) and because of this attitude at the time, to this day any ambitions the school has need to be masked a bit before presentation as they knee-jerk response is always that the school should aim lower (and often ideas are killed at that point). Additionally, too many of our fans still hold memories of when Yale was shoved down our throats decades ago and to this day many pose the possibility of holding a UConn home game at the Yale Bowl.
3 - the increased competition for the few spots and the ease information (real or fabricated) can be broadcast in the information age. - when we reached the point where we may have been a candidate for a P-5 conference we were always one of at minimum a few schools worth consideration. It was too easy at this point for others to point out shortcomings (real or fictitious, like the Fiesta Bowl attendance). Add to this the fact that we not only dropped the ball with our coaching hire after the Fiesta Bowl, we compounded this twice with subsequent hires (I'll elaborate later).
We've had quite a bit working against us for far too long yet we've been able to excel in many fields. I am fully confident that if we do get the opportunity to play on a level field we will become one of a small group of schools who are at or near the top in all measurements.
Problem #2 - the overall view of the school's 'purpose' in the eyes of our local politicians and how this has permeated a large portion of our fan base. - As far as our political leaders were concerned after WWII (the same time Florida St went from all female to coeducational) our school was to help satisfy the GI Bill and provide an education to some of the childrebln of blue collar families. We were never to be a threat to the many private, elite universities (where all of those politicians were educated) and because of this attitude at the time, to this day any ambitions the school has need to be masked a bit before presentation as they knee-jerk response is always that the school should aim lower (and often ideas are killed at that point). Additionally, too many of our fans still hold memories of when Yale was shoved down our throats decades ago and to this day many pose the possibility of holding a UConn home game at the Yale Bowl.
3 - the increased competition for the few spots and the ease information (real or fabricated) can be broadcast in the information age. - when we reached the point where we may have been a candidate for a P-5 conference we were always one of at minimum a few schools worth consideration. It was too easy at this point for others to point out shortcomings (real or fictitious, like the Fiesta Bowl attendance). Add to this the fact that we not only dropped the ball with our coaching hire after the Fiesta Bowl, we compounded this twice with subsequent hires (I'll elaborate later).
We've had quite a bit working against us for far too long yet we've been able to excel in many fields. I am fully confident that if we do get the opportunity to play on a level field we will become one of a small group of schools who are at or near the top in all measurements.
It's even closer if you count the 2011 and 2012 seasons from both schools.
So over the totality of UConn's "Dark Era"
Record: UConn: 42-92 (.313) Colorado: 48-94 (.338)
Bowl Games: UConn: 0-2 Colorado: 0-2
Head Coaches: UConn: 6 Colorado: 6
P5 Record: UConn 15-50 (.230) Colorado: 29-87 (.250)
VV - I apologize in advance for this long winded response, but I think the points made are important, if also a little redundant... I usually agree with most of what you post, but I must decline to do so here. I think you are missing the point regarding a comparison of old legacy private universities in the NE and their public counterparts. First, let's start with our public university - UConn is clearly a notch ahead of all other public universities in NE and stands out as nationally and is considered to be a "public ivy". Sure, we can be better. But our revolving door leadership as of late has created a lack of consistency. I think we have a good President now! President Radenka Maric is the real deal! She is tough minded, has the research chops and looks to me to be a no nonsense administrator. (and she can do whatever she wants to do with hair...)
Certainly, UConn doesn't compete with Yale on all levels, especially athletics. In athletics, this is more about the evolution of Ivy League athletics over the last 70 years than anything else. I think a little history concerning UConn's founding is in order. You may know that UConn received its Morrill Act land grant charter from Yale in the late 1800s. Yale was initially granted the CT land grant charter after the Morrill Act became law in 1862. However, the state legislature wanted a new CT funded university to carry the land grant charter for the state. In addition, land grant institutions were also supposed to have ag schools. This was not really happening at Yale. Other than the New Haven Green. I guess there was a dearth of farm land in New Haven. Thus, a thriving Yale Ag school was not in the cards. "The Yale-Storrs Controversy" ensued as the CT legislature and Yale battled over ownership of the charter. Ultimately, the charter was transferred to UConn and Yale was paid about $150k in compensation. In any event, with the CT land grant charter in hand, UConn was off and running.
As far as academic competition is concerned, you can pick up a useless degree at any Ivy league school or at UConn right now - difference being you'll pay $80k+ per year at the Ivies and about half that at UConn. As far as more desirous schools, UConn"s honors program does very well with top students state-wide who want a great education, but don't want to stare at a huge debt load to go to a private institution. The Ivies give away a lot of money to some and for them it maybe an easy decision. But, for the good student with any financial impediments, UConn is very attractive.
No doubt, the Ivies still have a buzz and probably always will. However, mentioning certain other private schools as superior to UConn doesn't ring true to me. Mentioning BC and BU with Harvard is a bit much. Especially BU - it has no particular cache. Also, I remember when BC was a "safe bet" Jesuit school for the Boston "Irish Mafia". Also, mentioning Wesleyan and Trinity with Yale is also a bit much. I think they are two examples of over-priced private institutions whose best days are behind them. (BTW, Syracuse is the most prominent example of an over-priced, private university that has definitely seen better days.) I would take UConn, head to head, over them any day. (And you also compare URI to RISD? Ouch! They are of different species!)
No doubt, it took awhile, but I think CT certainly understands the importance of having a strong public higher education system.
People around the country get it. Yes - we have some magnificent private universities in the NE, but UConn is ascending. Importantly, I think we have dynamic leadership going forward.
Now if we could just get into a decent athletic conference everything will be fine! We belong in one and we were there in 2011 when we got sideswiped by BC, UMiami and the ACC leadership. Fair or not, revenge killed our chances in 2011 (and 2012). It had nothing to do with our quality as an academic institution or our athletic success. Simply put - it was pay back. Hopefully, those days are behind us and the right conference will find us.
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One would imagine Colorado has played a more difficult schedule during same time period. Granted the AAC had a few good teams but overall I would think their schedule would be rated tougher. That said we have losses to UMass (2), barely beat Wagner, lost to Holy Cross, barely beat Yale since RE 2.0. Unfortunately I have like others have witnessed it uggh.
CL82
NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
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Actually, I think it's just ignorance. They have no idea about us, other than we are a very good basketball school, so they assume that's all we are. They are wrong.
FfldCntyFan
Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
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I believe that there is a lot of validity to this. To be fair though, take a gander at our men's hoops board and check out how little many of our fans feel the quality of most of the programs in the B-12. Ignorance doesn't discriminate by geography.
it really would’ve been nice to have 2 good Mora years under our belt right now. Prove we’re on a good trajectory.
BlueandOG
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Exactly! The past is less important than the future. Buy low/sell high. Get in on UCONN at a bargain price before UCONN football catches up with the school's other sports. If we go 8-4 in football (possible with wins over UMass, SHU, JMU, USF, Rice, Utah State, FIU, and Georgia State - all winnable - never mind BC, NC State, and Duke, which we could win) we will be hard to ignore.
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The sched has a bunch of possible pencil in "W's"....teams below .500 last year
Sacred Heart
UMass..1-11 last year
USF.......1-11 last year
BC......3-9
Rice....5-8
FIU.....4-8
Ga. State....4-8
A win over NC State, Tennessee, or Duke is a brag....
Sacred Heart
UMass..1-11 last year
USF.......1-11 last year
BC......3-9
Rice....5-8
FIU.....4-8
Ga. State....4-8
A win over NC State, Tennessee, or Duke is a brag....
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We need Mora and company to beat NC State.
O
i think Duke is a more realistic possibility.
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Just to be clear, are you suggesting by saying “bargain price” that we should accept a lesser share?
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If we can do this, it will change lots of perceptions about UConn football.
Conference realignment, like many things in life, is about timing. We need to improve our football perception right now in a big way B12 or not.
We know our worth but others don't. We can't change their ignorance, but we can make a statement by beating a team like NC State.
Waquoit
Mr. Positive
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This movie scene has always reminded me of the way UConn has been treated by the doyens of college sports. UConn is still a relative newcomer to the top echelons of the sport. There are plenty of programs that resent that success. Most, maybe. I think that's a reason why UConn always get the treatment Dave gets here. He's not trying to show anyone up, he just wants to be a part.
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We threw Iowa State's mascot down the stairs in the Rent. Broke his wing.
IIIRC John Silver said nobody liked coming here to play. Teams or media. We had personalities. Maybe you can ask him. or use the search feature.
IIIRC John Silver said nobody liked coming here to play. Teams or media. We had personalities. Maybe you can ask him. or use the search feature.
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We beat a highly ranked Louisville team, in Louisville, in a game where our QB got hurt during the game, the week before the ACC took Louisville over us. If we should have learned anything from this process, it's that you can't earn your way in on the field with an extra win or two.