Awful teams

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I had commented a while back that the bottom of the conferences were "soft", but as I was posting the last 2 days' wins and losses I realized just how many teams in the Power 4 and Big East are, well, awful comes to mind. At least 5 in each conference.

My candidates are:

• Big 10 - Rutgers, Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin
• SEC - Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Missouri and maybe Texas A&M too
• ACC - Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, SMU, Syracuse, Wake Forest and maybe even Stanford
• Big 12 - Arizona State, UCF, Houston, Texas Tech and I think Kansas could be included
• Big East - Georgetown, Providence, Butler, St. John's and Xavier

My main question - besides "did I miss anyone" or "did I undervalue any team" - is, were any of these unexpected?

I know I was expecting better of Auburn, Purdue, Miami, and Syracuse, although admittedly in a vague sort of way. Was hoping for better out of Rutgers, Arkansas, Florida and Texas Tech, among others.

I am quite honestly appalled about how "stratified" the new conferences all seem to be, with a huge divide between the "haves" and "have nots".

 

[GamecockFam]

Awful is a very subjective term. How do you quantify it?

 

[EricLA]

I think there is a difference between "bad" and "truly awful". In the big east alone, Xavier is awful at 1-14, but Georgetown, SJU, Butler and PC are all 4-11 or 4-10 (in the big east), so maybe they are merely "bad"? And overall records, SJU is above .500 and Butler is at .500. That means they won some games. Anyway hard to quantify... Did you happen to look up the RPI or whatever metrics the "experts" use?

 

[bballnut90]

I had commented a while back that the bottom of the conferences were "soft", but as I was posting the last 2 days' wins and losses I realized just how many teams in the Power 4 and Big East are, well, awful comes to mind. At least 5 in each conference.

My candidates are:

• Big 10 - Rutgers, Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin
• SEC - Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Missouri and maybe Texas A&M too
• ACC - Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, SMU, Syracuse, Wake Forest and maybe even Stanford
• Big 12 - Arizona State, UCF, Houston, Texas Tech and I think Kansas could be included
• Big East - Georgetown, Providence, Butler, St. John's and Xavier

My main question - besides "did I miss anyone" or "did I undervalue any team" - is, were any of these unexpected?

I know I was expecting better of Auburn, Purdue, Miami, and Syracuse, although admittedly in a vague sort of way. Was hoping for better out of Rutgers, Arkansas, Florida and Texas Tech, among others.

I am quite honestly appalled about how "stratified" the new conferences all seem to be, with a huge divide between the "haves" and "have nots".

DePaul belongs on here. I think A&M makes the list too.

I agree about Auburn, I thought they'd be a lot better this year but they're also missing Taliah Scott who would've been a 15-20ppg scorer for them.

I also am surprised at how bad Miami is. They have the Cavinder Twins/Jasmyne Roberts who were major players on their 2023 Elite 8 team, Cameron Williams who was a good post pickup from Michigan and Marshall from Notre Dame who I thought would make an impact.

Interestingly, they could've been really good had Spearman, Oldacre, and Day-Wilson stayed. Oldacre and Spearman were underutilized in Miami but are thriving at their new programs, and Day-Wilson was a go to player last year and has had a horrendous senior year at LSU. I'm mostly baffled how underutilized both Spearman/Oldacre were. Put those two together now and you'd have one of the best frontcourts in America.

 

[azfan]

Awful is a very subjective term. How do you quantify it?

Like this ......

The current 11 game losing streak will become 12 tomorrow in a home loss to TCU which I expect to be by 20 plus points. This team "led" by the nice coach from Delaware, 2021 CAA coach of the year and way way over her head will most certainly lose out over the remainder of the regular season and be destroyed in their single tournament game to end the season with a program high 23 losses.

And this team is consistently bad to quantify for both the loser tag and awful tag. 20 losses this year, 20 losses last year, 20 losses the year before and as the malevolent management of this program by Michael Crow and the current AD will allow the nice coach to generate 20 losses next year. Four consecutive years of 20 loss ... that would quantify as awful in anyone's book. It would also qualify as consistently awful, terrible, horrible, agony inducing.

But it gets awfuler.....

So this team consistently loses 20 games. How? Nonexistent commitment to defense and a lesser commitment to offense.

Prior to 2023 when the nice coach took over the helm in the previous 40 years ASU had three 20 loss seasons. The 2021 CAA coach of the year equaled that in her first three years and will surpass it next year.

From 1999 to 2022 no ASU team ever allowed opponents to average more than 70 points a game.

Natasha Adair has accomplished this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will also accomplish this next year.

From 1999 to 2022 there were only two seasons in which the Sun Devils were outscored on average by their opponents. Natasha Adair has done this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will do this next year as well.

Three consecutive 20 loss seasons with the current 20 loss season headed for 23. Over the last 3 years average opponent 70 points, previous 23 years never gave up 70 points on average in a season and in 18 of those seasons gave up less than 60 points per game.

AWFUL.

EMPIRICALLY AWFUL

QUANTIFIABLY AWFUL

In the five years before the nice coach arrived from Delaware with her 2021 CAA Coach of the Year award the Sun Devils had a .543 winning percentage so this was not a terrible program. While not on consistently elite program it was a very very very good program. ASU has 19 20 + win seasons and 1 30 + 1 season. That hard-earned rich history has been destroyed. The Devils danced at least 12 times in their history and they will never ever ever dance again.

So beyond awful this coaching has been destructive as well as soul crushing.

Oh

The

Agony

 

[cancontent]

DePaul belongs on here. I think A&M makes the list too.

I agree about Auburn, I thought they'd be a lot better this year but they're also missing Taliah Scott who would've been a 15-20ppg scorer for them.

I also am surprised at how bad Miami is. They have the Cavinder Twins/Jasmyne Roberts who were major players on their 2023 Elite 8 team, Cameron Williams who was a good post pickup from Michigan and Marshall from Notre Dame who I thought would make an impact.

Interestingly, they could've been really good had Spearman, Oldacre, and Day-Wilson stayed. Oldacre and Spearman were underutilized in Miami but are thriving at their new programs, and Day-Wilson was a go to player last year and has had a horrendous senior year at LSU. I'm mostly baffled how underutilized both Spearman/Oldacre were. Put those two together now and you'd have one of the best frontcourts in America.

Don't forget Lattimore in that mix for Miami. She seemed to do well in Coach Meier's system. With her ability to play outside, she would make that front court of Spearman and Oldacre even deeper.

 

[CajunHusk94]

Day-Wilson was a go to player last year and has had a horrendous senior year at LSU.

And shooting 47% from FT line to put the cherry on top

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Awful is a very subjective term. How do you quantify it?

Smell test; to be fair, I should have said "awful in conference". Of course most of the teams were not a big hit out of conference either, but I do recognize that some did better than others. Of course, very few teams challenged themselves out of conference either.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I think there is a difference between "bad" and "truly awful". In the big east alone, Xavier is awful at 1-14, but Georgetown, SJU, Butler and PC are all 4-11 or 4-10 (in the big east), so maybe they are merely "bad"? And overall records, SJU is above .500 and Butler is at .500. That means they won some games. Anyway hard to quantify... Did you happen to look up the RPI or whatever metrics the "experts" use?

View attachment 107117

As I noted above, perhaps "awful in conference" was more what I was going for, and to be considered 4 was the maximum number of wins I was considering.

As to the Big East Teams, Saint John's has a lot of wins, but I don't see much quality - they beat Wake and Penn State and a bunch of mid-majors, while losing only to Harvard. I am very disappointed, back in the day St. John's was extremely competitive. Providence actually lost to Wisconsin and Penn State and Boston College and I don't see any notable wins there either. Butler at least beat Indiana.

In general, the Big East looks pretty down over all. I don't follow the conference closely but teams that I thought were at least respectable are a stretch from here.

 

[maple]

Syracuse is a huge disappointment this season after what they did last year. Watching them consistently lose winnable games to “lesser” teams has been exhausting. They just look completely lost out on the floor. Not sure how much of that is on the coaches and how much of it is on the players (and their talent level/basketball IQ).

What a shame. I’ve been regretting my season ticket (with floor upgrade) purchase since November.

Not sure what it will take to right the ship.

 

[WBBTakeover]

I also am surprised at how bad Miami is. They have the Cavinder Twins/Jasmyne Roberts who were major players on their 2023 Elite 8 team, Cameron Williams who was a good post pickup from Michigan and Marshall from Notre Dame who I thought would make an impact.

Interestingly, they could've been really good had Spearman, Oldacre, and Day-Wilson stayed. Oldacre and Spearman were underutilized in Miami but are thriving at their new programs, and Day-Wilson was a go to player last year and has had a horrendous senior year at LSU. I'm mostly baffled how underutilized both Spearman/Oldacre were. Put those two together now and you'd have one of the best frontcourts in America.

Latasha Lattimore (played for Miami last season and the year before that) is averaging about 15 ppg and 9 rpg for UVA and has another year of eligibility (if she wants to use it).

 

[pvdoggy]

Like this ......

The current 11 game losing streak will become 12 tomorrow in a home loss to TCU which I expect to be by 20 plus points. This team "led" by the nice coach from Delaware, 2021 CAA coach of the year and way way over her head will most certainly lose out over the remainder of the regular season and be destroyed in their single tournament game to end the season with a program high 23 losses.

And this team is consistently bad to quantify for both the loser tag and awful tag. 20 losses this year, 20 losses last year, 20 losses the year before and as the malevolent management of this program by Michael Crow and the current AD will allow the nice coach to generate 20 losses next year. Four consecutive years of 20 loss ... that would quantify as awful in anyone's book. It would also qualify as consistently awful, terrible, horrible, agony inducing.

But it gets awfuler.....

So this team consistently loses 20 games. How? Nonexistent commitment to defense and a lesser commitment to offense.

Prior to 2023 when the nice coach took over the helm in the previous 40 years ASU had three 20 loss seasons. The 2021 CAA coach of the year equaled that in her first three years and will surpass it next year.

From 1999 to 2022 no ASU team ever allowed opponents to average more than 70 points a game.

Natasha Adair has accomplished this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will also accomplish this next year.

From 1999 to 2022 there were only two seasons in which the Sun Devils were outscored on average by their opponents. Natasha Adair has done this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will do this next year as well.

Three consecutive 20 loss seasons with the current 20 loss season headed for 23. Over the last 3 years average opponent 70 points, previous 23 years never gave up 70 points on average in a season and in 18 of those seasons gave up less than 60 points per game.

AWFUL.

EMPIRICALLY AWFUL

QUANTIFIABLY AWFUL

In the five years before the nice coach arrived from Delaware with her 2021 CAA Coach of the Year award the Sun Devils had a .543 winning percentage so this was not a terrible program. While not on consistently elite program it was a very very very good program. ASU has 19 20 + win seasons and 1 30 + 1 season. That hard-earned rich history has been destroyed. The Devils danced at least 12 times in their history and they will never ever ever dance again.

So beyond awful this coaching has been destructive as well as soul crushing.

Oh

The

Agony

Sounds awful. Why does she still have a job?

 

[maple]

Like this ......

The current 11 game losing streak will become 12 tomorrow in a home loss to TCU which I expect to be by 20 plus points. This team "led" by the nice coach from Delaware, 2021 CAA coach of the year and way way over her head will most certainly lose out over the remainder of the regular season and be destroyed in their single tournament game to end the season with a program high 23 losses.

And this team is consistently bad to quantify for both the loser tag and awful tag. 20 losses this year, 20 losses last year, 20 losses the year before and as the malevolent management of this program by Michael Crow and the current AD will allow the nice coach to generate 20 losses next year. Four consecutive years of 20 loss ... that would quantify as awful in anyone's book. It would also qualify as consistently awful, terrible, horrible, agony inducing.

But it gets awfuler.....

So this team consistently loses 20 games. How? Nonexistent commitment to defense and a lesser commitment to offense.

Prior to 2023 when the nice coach took over the helm in the previous 40 years ASU had three 20 loss seasons. The 2021 CAA coach of the year equaled that in her first three years and will surpass it next year.

From 1999 to 2022 no ASU team ever allowed opponents to average more than 70 points a game.

Natasha Adair has accomplished this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will also accomplish this next year.

From 1999 to 2022 there were only two seasons in which the Sun Devils were outscored on average by their opponents. Natasha Adair has done this in all three seasons in Tempe. She will do this next year as well.

Three consecutive 20 loss seasons with the current 20 loss season headed for 23. Over the last 3 years average opponent 70 points, previous 23 years never gave up 70 points on average in a season and in 18 of those seasons gave up less than 60 points per game.

AWFUL.

EMPIRICALLY AWFUL

QUANTIFIABLY AWFUL

In the five years before the nice coach arrived from Delaware with her 2021 CAA Coach of the Year award the Sun Devils had a .543 winning percentage so this was not a terrible program. While not on consistently elite program it was a very very very good program. ASU has 19 20 + win seasons and 1 30 + 1 season. That hard-earned rich history has been destroyed. The Devils danced at least 12 times in their history and they will never ever ever dance again.

So beyond awful this coaching has been destructive as well as soul crushing.

Oh

The

Agony

That’s one of the most painful coaching resumes I have read in a while. The idea that you could “accomplish” all that and still have a job is staggering.

 

[maple]

For fun I thought I would take a look at CSU Bakersfield, since I used to live practically next door to their campus.

Since the 2020-2021 (where they went 9-9), they have 20+ loss seasons every season. They have 23 losses already this season! And they still have 5 more regular season games to play.

In just this season they lose by an average of 18 points (scoring 49 PPG) and making just 34.1% of their FGs and 26.1% from 3PT. The numbers in previous years are not much better than that. But at least they had winning seasons before 2020 … and mind you, this is in an absolute bottom of the barrel conference.

I am not sure if they got a new coach at that time. I’m on my phone and was too lazy to do more investigating. Whoever their coach is now should be fired though. Just awful.

 

[nwhoopfan]

For fun I thought I would take a look at CSU Bakersfield, since I used to live practically next door to their campus.

Since the 2020-2021 (where they went 9-9), they have 20+ loss seasons every season. They have 23 losses already this season! And they still have 5 more regular season games to play.

In just this season they lose by an average of 18 points (scoring 49 PPG) and making just 34.1% of their FGs and 26.1% from 3PT. The numbers in previous years are not much better than that. But at least they had winning seasons before 2020 … and mind you, this is in an absolute bottom of the barrel conference.

I am not sure if they got a new coach at that time. I’m on my phone and was too lazy to do more investigating. Whoever their coach is now should be fired though. Just awful.

Yeah, there are teams that have a hard time winning games, and then there are teams that seem just about incapable of beating anyone. Several different levels of bad.

Looks like CSUB has a first year head coach, so probably isn't going to get fired already. Only the 4th coach in program history. Apparently they were fairly successful in D2. Some schools probably shouldn't move up to D1, this being a prime example.

Previous head coach is the father of former Stanford player Erica McCall. He lasted 13 years

 

[maple]

Yeah, there are teams that have a hard time winning games, and then there are teams that seem just about incapable of beating anyone. Several different levels of bad.

Looks like CSUB has a first year head coach, so probably isn't going to get fired already. Only the 4th coach in program history. Apparently they were fairly successful in D2. Some schools probably shouldn't move up to D1, this being a prime example.

Previous head coach is the father of former Stanford player Erica McCall. He lasted 13 years

Thanks for doing some extra leg work for me.

It’s hard to imagine them ever attracting any real talent (understandably so). Definitely agree they should have stayed D2.

Speaking of a team that recently moved up to D1, Le Moyne is in the bottom half of the powerhouse NEC. 4-7 in conference and 4-20 overall. They had the honor of getting beaten up by Colorado and USC at the start of the season.

I haven’t been to a game all season. Though I might go see them play CCSU, who is actually in the upper half of their conference ... they’ve won a whopping total of 7 games this year. And one of those was against Le Moyne.

Can we just deregulate an entire conference?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Thanks for doing some extra leg work for me.

It’s hard to imagine them ever attracting any real talent (understandably so). Definitely agree they should have stayed D2.

Speaking of a team that recently moved up to D1, Le Moyne is in the bottom half of the powerhouse NEC. 4-7 in conference and 4-20 overall. They had the honor of getting beaten up by Colorado and USC at the start of the season.

I haven’t been to a game all season. Though I might go see them play CCSU, who is actually in the upper half of their conference ... they’ve won a whopping total of 7 games this year. And one of those was against Le Moyne.

Can we just deregulate an entire conference?

Historically, the NEC has been one of the lowest ranked conferences. Back in the day, St. Francis (PA) dominated for many years. then by Robert Morris for a while. Among other changes, Robert Morris has departed for the Horizon League and St. Francis (NY) stopped competing.

That the school I grew up calling Fairly Ridiculous is leading the conference, undefeated in conference and 21-3 overall is totally a shock. The best thing to be noted is that they are one of only 4 teams to have been in the NEC from the beginning - along with LIU, Wagner and the afore mentioned St. Francis PA.

 

[bballnut90]

And shooting 47% from FT line to put the cherry on top

Not to mention 17% 3pt shooting. She might be losing minutes to Last Tear Poa, but LTP has been awful too this year. It's really odd, Kim used to be the master of converting SGs to PGs but the last two years they've had terrible PG play.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I had commented a while back that the bottom of the conferences were "soft", but as I was posting the last 2 days' wins and losses I realized just how many teams in the Power 4 and Big East are, well, awful comes to mind. At least 5 in each conference.

My candidates are:

• ACC - Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, SMU, Syracuse, Wake Forest and maybe even Stanford

 

[packwrap]

Latasha Lattimore (played for Miami last season and the year before that) is averaging about 15 ppg and 9 rpg for UVA and has another year of eligibility (if she wants to use it).

Miami! They've been on my follow list this year and will win the award for Best Awful Team in American.

They have been a bit undermanned, I note all the out transfers mentioned on the thread. Amazingly, they really haven't lost games by more than 10, and are often right there with 1 min left, but....

Most recently a 1 posession game with Florida St. Next up Duke. To their credit they still play hard and have not packed it in.

Despite awful conference record, they still may make the NIT.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Miami! They've been on my follow list this year and will win the award for Best Awful Team in American.

They have been a bit undermanned, I note all the out transfers mentioned on the thread. Amazingly, they really haven't lost games by more than 10, and are often right there with 1 min left, but....

Most recently a 1 posession game with Florida St. Next up Duke. To their credit they still play hard and have not packed it in.

Despite awful conference record, they still may make the NIT.

Hey that sounds like my Washington Huskies. They have lost a few by double digits, only 1 real blow out was against an Iowa team who just couldn't miss (seriously who shoots 70% from the field for a full game?). Otherwise their biggest losing margin was by 14 against Montana, who's among the worst teams they've played this year. Go figure. Have kept it respectable against the likes of LSU, UCLA, USC, Ohio St., Maryland. Several woulda coulda shoulda games, but nothing to show for it. WNIT here they come...again.


Hmm, I'm looking at Miami's schedule and I do see a few blowout losses. Louisville by 18, Florida St. by 22 (the first time), Duke by 41! Luckily they only play Duke once, but unfortunately their next game is against Notre Dame.

 

[packwrap]

Hmm, I'm looking at Miami's schedule and I do see a few blowout losses. Louisville by 18, Florida St. by 22 (the first time), Duke by 41! Luckily they only play Duke once, but unfortunately their next game is against Notre Dame.

Your Huskies still right at bubble. Good finish & Big10 tourney and you may be in. Need to hope for no bid stealers.

Yep, I guess Miami did lose a couple blow outs. Next game...thanks for fix. I think I just wanted them to have a rematch with Duke.

So we try again...next up Notre Dame...ooof.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Your Huskies still right at bubble. Good finish & Big10 tourney and you may be in. Need to hope for no bid stealers.

Yeah...a few weeks ago I saw them projected Last 4 In, now First 4 Out. I'm not buying it. There's just nothing on their resume. They beat Illinois. That's it. Last year they had wins overs USC, Oregon St. and Utah and that wasn't enough. They've managed to avoid the really bad conference losses like they had last year, Arizona St. X2, but I don't think that comes close to balancing out the lack of quality wins.

 

[triaddukefan]

I have a bone to pick. My Mustangs are not awful, they just aren't very good

 

[dws3665]

I had commented a while back that the bottom of the conferences were "soft", but as I was posting the last 2 days' wins and losses I realized just how many teams in the Power 4 and Big East are, well, awful comes to mind. At least 5 in each conference.

My candidates are:

• Big 10 - Rutgers, Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin
• SEC - Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Missouri and maybe Texas A&M too
• ACC - Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, SMU, Syracuse, Wake Forest and maybe even Stanford
• Big 12 - Arizona State, UCF, Houston, Texas Tech and I think Kansas could be included
• Big East - Georgetown, Providence, Butler, St. John's and Xavier

My main question - besides "did I miss anyone" or "did I undervalue any team" - is, were any of these unexpected?

I know I was expecting better of Auburn, Purdue, Miami, and Syracuse, although admittedly in a vague sort of way. Was hoping for better out of Rutgers, Arkansas, Florida and Texas Tech, among others.

I am quite honestly appalled about how "stratified" the new conferences all seem to be, with a huge divide between the "haves" and "have nots".

"Maybe" Texas A&M?