Athletic takes down Cuse

[CL82]

Cuse fans take on the article

 

[Dillon77]

First Marlene Stollings at Texas Texas last offseason, and now this. Some coaches just can't find the right balance on how to treat their players.

Another name that comes to mind is MaChelle Joseph at Ga. Tech. While I thought her teams looked well prepared and her recruiting was imaginative, she also looked a little too intense at times on the sideline in dealings with her team. Turns out there was something to that.

Given the past investigation into Q and the fact that so many players left the program, something is off-kilter in 'Cuse. Best to launch an impartial investigation...and fast.

 

[rvwsleep]

Back in the April recruiting thread, I suggested that perhaps Syracuse should investigate their wcbb program , in light of most of the team transferring. My post was met with a couple of hostile responses (Since deleted. Not sure by whom) about investigating a coach without any formal charges against him.
Well...

 

[fireford]

Cuse fans take on the article

The expression "Laugh out Loud" is often exaggerated but I literally did when I read this quote from a 'Cuse fan.

How does he kiss players' foreheads? They're college basketball players, and he's like 4 feet tall.

 

[vtcwbuff]

What would that mean?

Obviously you weren't around to enjoy the earlier version of Geno.

 

[triaddukefan]

Oh boy. They did a good job restocking their roster, wonder if this changes any of the incoming transfers minds. If so, is it too late for them to back out of their commitment.

Another name that comes to mind is MaChelle Joseph at Ga. Tech. While I thought her teams looked well prepared and her recruiting was imaginative, she also looked a little too intense at times on the sideline in dealings with her team. Turns out there was something to that.

Given the past investigation into Q and the fact that so many players left the program, something is off-kilter in 'Cuse. Best to launch an impartial investigation...and fast.

Intense is an understatement. She scared me, and I was just watching in the stands

 

[vtcwbuff]

Inappropriate touching has NEVER been ok. Never, ever. There’s nothing to “adapt” to

I suspect that the "inappropriate" list is much longer these days than it was 30 years ago. How long before it will be inappropriate for a coach to hug a player after a win? Maybe a male coach will delegate all post game hugs to a female assistant. Give a player an "atta" boy slap on the butt and it could cost you your job - although apprently it's OK for a player to slap a coach on the butt.

 

[fireford]

Oh boy. They did a good job restocking their roster, wonder if this changes any of the incoming transfers minds. If so, is it too late for them to back out of their commitment.




Intense is an understatement. She scared me, and I was just watching in the stands

I can't imagine why?

 

[HuskyNan]

I suspect that the "inappropriate" list is much longer these days than it was 30 years ago. How long before it will be inappropriate for a coach to hug a player after a win? Maybe a male coach will delegate all post game hugs to a female assistant. Give a player an "atta" boy slap on the butt and it could cost you your job - although apprently it's OK for a player to slap a coach on the butt.

No, it was always inappropriate. Women tolerated it because men held the power. It wasn’t until sexual harassment laws were enacted that women began to understand that they had a way to stand up to men in power.

 

[cancontent]

With a prior accusation of inappropriate behavior dating back 10 years, it is probably appropriate for Syracuse to suspend Hillsman with pay until the results of an independent investigation are completed. At this point in time Syracuse should be very concerned with additional players or students coming forward with similar complaints, and the very real possibility of a class action suit.

The University need only consider the multi-million dollar settlements to sexual harassment & assault lawsuits by Penn State, Michigan St & tOSU to understand that they need to respond quickly and thoroughly to these charges.

Huge point that has to be considered. Too many programs let things like this fester for too long. Not to mention USA Gymnastics.

Another name that comes to mind is MaChelle Joseph at Ga. Tech. While I thought her teams looked well prepared and her recruiting was imaginative, she also looked a little too intense at times on the sideline in dealings with her team. Turns out there was something to that.

Given the past investigation into Q and the fact that so many players left the program, something is off-kilter in 'Cuse. Best to launch an impartial investigation...and fast.

The list of schools that could be noted where complaints from players fell on deaf ears only to rear its ugly head afterwards to too long to mention. SMU, Detroit Mercy, Purdue (can't remember the city, but not the BIG10 school), Northern Kentucky a few years ago, Wichita State for MBB, etc. Now with athletes feeling more comfortable in speaking up, we're learning more and more.

 

[Argonaut]

I suspect that the "inappropriate" list is much longer these days than it was 30 years ago. How long before it will be inappropriate for a coach to hug a player after a win? Maybe a male coach will delegate all post game hugs to a female assistant. Give a player an "atta" boy slap on the butt and it could cost you your job - although apprently it's OK for a player to slap a coach on the butt.

So much of what is and is not appropriate depends on your relationship with the other person — just like in real life.

Touching anyone who doesn’t want to be touched by you was ALWAYS inappropriate, now people (mostly women) are willing to speak up about it after having been silenced and shamed before.

 

[cancontent]

I suspect that the "inappropriate" list is much longer these days than it was 30 years ago. How long before it will be inappropriate for a coach to hug a player after a win? Maybe a male coach will delegate all post game hugs to a female assistant. Give a player an "atta" boy slap on the butt and it could cost you your job - although apprently it's OK for a player to slap a coach on the butt.

No it's not. I didn't like how the media played it up as something fun because of who did it.

 

[MSGRET]

Huge point that has to be considered. Too many programs let things like this fester for too long. Not to mention USA Gymnastics.

The list of schools that could be noted where complaints from players fell on deaf ears only to rear its ugly head afterwards to too long to mention. SMU, Detroit Mercy, Purdue (can't remember the city, but not the BIG10 school), Northern Kentucky a few years ago, Wichita State for MBB, etc. Now with athletes feeling more comfortable in speaking up, we're learning more and more.

I don't remember any scandal at Purdue. I believe that you are thinking of Michigan State and the Women's gymnastics scandal.

 

[CL82]

Obviously you weren't around to enjoy the earlier version of Geno.

Obviously you didn’t read husky Nan’s post in which she noted that the hallmark of Geno’s career has been the lifelong relationships that he’s built with his players. Nor has he ever been accused of kissing his players nor placing his hands on their hips.

You’re an OK visiting poster, but you are wrong on this and it’s a weird hill for you to die on.

 

[cancontent]

I don't remember any scandal at Purdue. I believe that you are thinking of Michigan State and the Women's gymnastics scandal.

Purdue-Fort Wayne (don't know if they're associated with Purdue). Here is the link. Toxic abuse alleged inside Purdue-Fort Wayne women's basketball: 'It was brutal'

Edit - Wasn't the gymnastics scandal include the USA program and Michigan State because the doctor was affiliated with both?

However my point was more about how these types of scandals were kept under wraps for various sports programs on both the men's and women's side at various schools. Penn State football, Ohio State men's wrestling, etc. The fall out took years, if not decades. The damage was irreparable.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I just googled "coach kisses player on forehead". Surprisingly, there were a lot of hits. OBVIOUSLY, an investigation needs to take place. UNFORTUNATELY, no matter what the findings, this is a set back and only time will tell how much. I don't see the fact that so many players left as some sure sign that he did anything wrong. I also don't discount it as a reason that some may have left. Because...I don't know. And that's where the University needs to proceed quickly and as openly as possible avoiding any pressure to respond to hearsay. GET THE FACTS and GET THEM NOW.

Here's my thing with the "immediate" alarmist. If kissing a player on the forehead or placing a hand near the pelvis (which to me starts at the waist area) is cause for firing...aren't there a lot of coaches up for firing, including women? My point...context matters and you can't get that in the press and certainly not from interviewing one side of the story. I suspect to get the truth and to validate it...investigators will have to go a ways back since the implication is that there was a pattern.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Cuse fans take on the article

The best comment from a Syracuse fan - "How does he kiss players' foreheads? They're college basketball players, and he's like 4 feet tall."

So much of what is and is not appropriate depends on your relationship with the other person — just like in real life.

Touching anyone who doesn’t want to be touched by you was ALWAYS inappropriate, now people (mostly women) are willing to speak up about it after having been silenced and shamed before.

And there is the key. If you don't want a post game hug tell the coach! Don't use it as a hammer down the road when the coach isn't giving you enough PT.

 

[Alydar]

These comments are filled with "if's". "If he did this ... then he is a monster" quickly becomes "He is a monster".

That's unfair speculation based on comments from "alleged" victims. I haven't read the article but I doubt many UConn fans would be considered for a jury to judge Hillsman. I remember the vicious character assassination of Geno on the Tenn boards. Someone would write that "they had heard he assaulted his players and "if true" it proves he is a despicable human being. That was enough for Vol nation to call for his immediate lynching.

I'm going to let this investigation proceed before I light my torch and get my pitchfork.

 

[Heytherego]

No, it was always inappropriate. Women tolerated it because men held the power. It wasn’t until sexual harassment laws were enacted that women began to understand that they had a way to stand up to men in power.

How obvious is it that a man made the original post? It is extremely inappropriate especially coming from a man in a position of power.
I agree with a poster who said context matters, but young women should not have to be subjected to try to figure out blurred lines and what is ok and what’s not. And many times, it can take months to years afterwards for these young women to realize what was happening was inappropriate and wrong. They are kids, these are grown adults. Kisses and hands near the waist are not acceptable and make many women uncomfortable.

 

[CL82]

Someone would write that "they had heard he assaulted his players and "if true" it proves he is a despicable human being.

Yeah if you read the Tennessee boards at the height of the rivalry there were many unsubstantiated allegations. That wasn't one of them.

 

[Littlemin]

The title of the thread and the number of posters who seemingly have already tried and convicted the man is all one needs to know about the sad world we inhabit. If he is proven guilty, appropriate punishment should certainly follow, but I have a hard time finding the right words for my disdain for these “court of public opinion” lynchings.
I have two very real world, personal experiences of the hideousness of people ruined, not by fact, but by publicity; by innuendo; by supposition.
I have no sympathy for people who engage in the type of behavior described here, but I also have no respect for people who fall over themselves rushing to judgement on serious situations they know absolutely nothing about.
Cliches get to be cliches for a reason and “two wrongs don’t make a right” comes to mind here.

 

[Crossover]

The best comment from a Syracuse fan - "How does he kiss players' foreheads? They're college basketball players, and he's like 4 feet tall."

And there is the key. If you don't want a post game hug tell the coach! Don't use it as a hammer down the road when the coach isn't giving you enough PT.

Oh please! What do you think would happen if a player had called Coach Q on giving her a hug? This is the same guy who reportedly got in the face of each of his players during a half time and said "I don't give a F... about you". That would hardly lead players to think they could speak out without being crushed. Just for kicks try paying attention to the particulars of this case before jumping on your hobby horse.

 

[EricSD]

I find it bizarre that people are comparing this situation to UCONN and Geno years back. The allegations against Geno did NOT come from any of his players. It came from a 39 page report submitted to the NCAA by the SEC and Pat Summitt/Tennessee.

The report did not allege abuse against his players, but rather recruiting violations, all of which were investigated and dismissed. The ONLY violation during Geno's entire tenure, never mind that time frame, (that I can recall), is that a staff member called ESPN on behalf of Maya Moore's family to set up a visit to the ESPN campus. Other than that, squadoosh. So the 2 coaches/programs are not related in any way, shape, or form.

As for Syracuse, I don't believe I'm going out on much of a limb when I say that no program in the history of WCBB has had 11 players enter the transfer portal in a single academic year. I'm not convicting Hillsman, but when you lose 11 players to transfer, something is going on. I agree with the people who say it does not look good for him, in spite of the 2 players who have come out in support of him on Twitter (Mangakahia and Alexis Peterson).

Regardless of the truth, there is some ugly $#it going on at Syracuse. Tiana called out her teammates for how they treated her after she was diagnosed with cancer. Peterson said the players had lost their minds. Then on the other hand the article alleges all kinds of abuses and issues with the coach. UGLY.

 

[Alydar]

Oh please! What do you think would happen if a player had called Coach Q on giving her a hug? This is the same guy who reportedly got in the face of each of his players during a half time and said "I don't give a F... about you". That would hardly lead players to think they could speak out without being crushed. Just for kicks try paying attention to the particulars of this case before jumping on your hobby horse.

"who reportedly"

That may enough for you but not me.

 

[MSGRET]

Before I condemn a person for this action, I need to see the investigative report. If he is guilty of these actions and they discover it, I believe that coach Q will resign before he is fired. Let the process proceed and it will work itself out, then go from there.

 

[uconnfan68]

I find it bizarre that people are comparing this situation to UCONN and Geno years back. The allegations against Geno did NOT come from any of his players. It came from a 39 page report submitted to the NCAA by the SEC and Pat Summitt/Tennessee.

The report did not allege abuse against his players, but rather recruiting violations, all of which were investigated and dismissed. The ONLY violation during Geno's entire tenure, never mind that time frame, (that I can recall), is that a staff member called ESPN on behalf of Maya Moore's family to set up a visit to the ESPN campus. Other than that, squadoosh. So the 2 coaches/programs are not related in any way, shape, or form.

As for Syracuse, I don't believe I'm going out on much of a limb when I say that no program in the history of WCBB has had 11 players enter the transfer portal in a single academic year. I'm not convicting Hillsman, but when you lose 11 players to transfer, something is going on. I agree with the people who say it does not look good for him, in spite of the 2 players who have come out in support of him on Twitter (Mangakahia and Alexis Peterson).

Regardless of the truth, there is some ugly $#it going on at Syracuse. Tiana called out her teammates for how they treated her after she was diagnosed with cancer. Peterson said the players had lost their minds. Then on the other hand the article alleges all kinds of abuses and issues with the coach. UGLY.

View attachment 68270

And don’t forget those ESPN visits were available to anyone that asked.

 

[Alydar]

I find it bizarre that people are comparing this situation to UCONN and Geno years back. The allegations against Geno did NOT come from any of his players. It came from a 39 page report submitted to the NCAA by the SEC and Pat Summitt/Tennessee.

The report did not allege abuse against his players, but rather recruiting violations, all of which were investigated and dismissed. The ONLY violation during Geno's entire tenure, never mind that time frame, (that I can recall), is that a staff member called ESPN on behalf of Maya Moore's family to set up a visit to the ESPN campus. Other than that, squadoosh. So the 2 coaches/programs are not related in any way, shape, or form.

As for Syracuse, I don't believe I'm going out on much of a limb when I say that no program in the history of WCBB has had 11 players enter the transfer portal in a single academic year. I'm not convicting Hillsman, but when you lose 11 players to transfer, something is going on. I agree with the people who say it does not look good for him, in spite of the 2 players who have come out in support of him on Twitter (Mangakahia and Alexis Peterson).

Regardless of the truth, there is some ugly $#it going on at Syracuse. Tiana called out her teammates for how they treated her after she was diagnosed with cancer. Peterson said the players had lost their minds. Then on the other hand the article alleges all kinds of abuses and issues with the coach. UGLY.

View attachment 68270

There were nasty posts on message boards that went well beyond accusations of recruiting violations.
And in Hillsman's case right now there are only reports of accusations and they come from players who left the school. And yet there is condemnation of Hillsman that assumes he is guilty and that is the apt comparison because there are still Vol fans who still believe that the innuendos about UConn/Geno were true. If you tell people something over and over they will begin to believe it, whether it's true or not.

I'm of the opinion that a lot of the transfers nation-wide are a result of having to live eat & practice 24/7 in a bubble. We read a lot about how COVID has brought teams together but I'll wager that it drove more teams apart. And when the NCAA gave everyone a exit opportunity many took it. Under stress many things that wouldn't raise a eyebrow normally can become incidents that "make me think of suicide".

I'm 100% against abuse but I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus based on what I read.

 

[cancontent]

The article references more than just this past season. This isn't just about 11 players who left this season. The Athletic is questioning a history that is longer than 1 season and COVID. Syracuse's external investigation will determine if there was any merit to what has been published.

If you haven't read the article, it's tough to surmise based off of headlines, forum posts, IG and Twitter comments. I bit the bullet and paid for the subscription as I've been meaning to. I think the questions are justified but I'm waiting until the final report comes out.

Like someone else, I've seen what accusations have done to families personally, including my own. It's fair to be skeptical and to take those claims seriously at the same time.

 

[southie]

How often has a head coach (in any sport) been exonerated after these type of accusations and actual investigations? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

While some believe there is no such thing as bad publicity, this is not a good example of that slogan as this is damaging, IMO.

 

[huskeynut]

I will state I am not a fan of Quentin. He is a strutting peacock!

What we have is an article with many accusations and many questions. It was not flattering at all. To the Cuse AD and administration, the transfer out of 11 players should have been enough to trigger and investigation. It also seems Hillman's track record leaves one open for investigation.

I hope there is an investigation. After this article, it needs to happen. If the administration has any brains at all, they will have one with outside investigators. An internal investigation will not be enough.