Athlete or Not? Ten Questions

[Waquoit]

I suspect gymnasts are the best athletes on the planet.

True. And yet Gymnastics isn't a sport.

 

[babysheep]

are you actually making the argument that Tom Brady is not an athlete?

Read the thread before you post.

 

[Tenspro2002]

So are the following Athletes by your standards? WHY???

1. a bowler -- No; this is only a slight step up from bocce

2. a golfer -- Yes; I don't have a great justification though, since the physical motions required aren't too difficult from bowling, it just feels like a more "athletic" sport

3. a ping pong player -- Yes; competitive ping pong requires athletic ability in the form of reflexes, dexterity/touch, and even lateral quickness/footwork

4. a dart player -- No; the local drunks can do this at any bar. It requires skill, but isn't athletic by any stretch

5. a bocce baller -- No; you can do this in formal attire with very little effort or athleticism

6. a jockey -- No; you're controlling a living creature, which is the actual athlete

7. a Nascar driver -- No; you're controlling a machine

8. a competitive Eater -- No; this is more like a carnival freak show than a sport

9. an arm wrestler -- No; brute strength is not athleticism

10. a cheerleader -- YES; like another poster has said, cheerleading requires just as much athleticism as gymnastics

I'll close by reminding people that this discussion is slightly different, though of course related to the "is this-and-that a sport?" debate. The litmus test is to imagine a conversation like this:

Athlete: "Hi. I'm a professional athlete."
You: "Oh, really? What do you play?"
Athlete: "I'm a _____."

If your response would be to laugh out loud, that person is not an athlete.

 

[Danzz]

I've looked up formal definitions of (sport) (hobby) (athlete). Do you have to sweat? Must you keep score? This whole argument was focused on the Question.......is a Bowler an athlete?

So are the following Athletes by your standards? WHY???

1. a bowler

2. a golfer

3. a ping pong player

4. a dart player

5. a bocce baller

6. a jockey

7. a Nascar driver

8. a competitive Eater

9. an arm wrestler

10. a cheerleader

Here is what I use as criteria: If the ability to run fast or quickly is not an asset, then it is a game not a sport and the people who play them are either gamers or athletes.

 

[Cheddie]

Years ago, on one of the networks, they had a type of inter-sports competition between athletes of different sorts - baseball, football, basketball players, etc, with events testing speed (sprints), endurance (mile run), strength, jumping, etc. I recall baseball players were by far the worst of the major pro league athletes.

 

[Cheddie]

True. And yet Gymnastics isn't a sport.

Not a sport?

 

[babysheep]

Here is what I use as criteria: If the ability to run fast or quickly is not an asset, then it is a game not a sport and the people who play them are either gamers or athletes.

Discus? Shotput? Swimming?

 

[babysheep]

Years ago, on one of the networks, they had a type of inter-sports competition between athletes of different sorts - baseball, football, basketball players, etc, with events testing speed (sprints), endurance (mile run), strength, jumping, etc. I recall baseball players were by far the worst of the major pro league athletes.

Well, duh, they run less than a mile spread out over a 3.5 hour time span.

 

[Danzz]

Discus? Shotput? Swimming?

discus and shotput require quick movements for distance. Got me on the swimming

 

[Danzz]

Have you ever seen Tiger Woods before? Dude is ripped.

Also saw Nichlaus when he was fat, pudgy , smoked and dominated the tour.

 

[Waquoit]

[Gymnastics] Not a sport?

It's athletic, but so is ballet dancing. A sport is a competition that has an objective way to measure victory. Score more points, run fastest, jump highest, etc. Even lacrosse is a sport. Things that are exclusively judged like gymnastics, figure skating, X-games and the like aren't true sports, IMO.

 

[jleves]

It's athletic, but so is ballet dancing. A sport is a competition that has an objective way to measure victory. Score more points, run fastest, jump highest, etc. Even lacrosse is a sport. Things that are exclusively judged like gymnastics, figure skating, X-games and the like aren't true sports, IMO.

How about boxing?

 

[Waquoit]

How about boxing?

The way I justify boxing making the cut although it frequently involves judging is that the sport itself involves a head-to-head competition. An athlete applying his skills directly against another competitor.

 

[babysheep]

discus and shotput require quick movements for distance. Got me on the swimming

You said "run fast or quickly" being and "asset," which is not the case for either discus or shotput.

 

[babysheep]

The way I justify boxing making the cut although it frequently involves judging is that the sport itself involves a head-to-head competition. An athlete applying his skills directly against another competitor.

So, basically, you just don't want gymnastics to be considered a sport and you will make exceptions just to make it so in your mind.

 

[Waquoit]

So, basically, you just don't want gymnastics to be considered a sport and you will make exceptions just to make it so in your mind.

Nah, do you really think it's the same thing? Boxing didn't have judging at the beginning. It came about with public outcry against brutal matches going into incredible numbers of rounds.

 

[babysheep]

I don't think of it as same or different.

I think that anything requiring mastery of a certain physical action for a competitive activity is a sport. Anyone participating in said sport, who thus has a mastery of a given skill that is important in that sport, is automatically an athlete.

 

[mets1090]

Gymnasts are clearly ridiculous athletes. I wouldn't classify gymnastics as a sport though - I agree with the whole objective measure thing. The main point is that you can be a freak athlete and never play a sport in your life. Was a guy who didn't play sports until his senior year of high school and suddenly received 20 D1 football scholarship offers not an athlete until he stepped on the field? I wouldn't say so.

I also bowl and wouldn't consider it a sport. It's very difficult to perform at a high level. It is a competition and a game, yes. But not a sport. The discussion between what makes a game and what makes a sport is a frivolous discussion that will never end (much like the rest of what is discussed on message boards). In general I agree that the overall level of exertion and the objectivity of the scoring is the best measure but once you get past the ones that are obviously sports (football/basketball/baseball/hockey/soccer) each individual case is a judgment call. Boxing clearly requires insane endurance, strength and quickness but you could argue either side. Same goes for gymnastics and cheerleading. Of course people who never played them are more likely to say they aren't sports and people who did play them are likely to be defensive of the idea that they are sports. Except bowling, it just isn't a sport and I can comfortably say that even though I bowl competitively all the time. Probably because I've played other sports and am not insecure about playing something that is a game and not a sport, whatever that means.

 

[babysheep]

Gymnasts are clearly ridiculous athletes. I wouldn't classify gymnastics as a sport though - I agree with the whole objective measure thing. The main point is that you can be a freak athlete and never play a sport in your life. Was a guy who didn't play sports until his senior year of high school and suddenly received 20 D1 football scholarship offers not an athlete until he stepped on the field? I wouldn't say so.

I also bowl and wouldn't consider it a sport. It's very difficult to perform at a high level. It is a competition and a game, yes. But not a sport. The discussion between what makes a game and what makes a sport is a frivolous discussion that will never end (much like the rest of what is discussed on message boards). In general I agree that the overall level of exertion and the objectivity of the scoring is the best measure but once you get past the ones that are obviously sports (football/basketball/baseball/hockey/soccer) each individual case is a judgment call. Boxing clearly requires insane endurance, strength and quickness but you could argue either side. Same goes for gymnastics and cheerleading. Of course people who never played them are more likely to say they aren't sports and people who did play them are likely to be defensive of the idea that they are sports. Except bowling, it just isn't a sport and I can comfortably say that even though I bowl competitively all the time. Probably because I've played other sports and am not insecure about playing something that is a game and not a sport, whatever that means.

But you have activities that go both ways. Golf and bowling have objective scoring but obviously have minimal physical exertion required, and baseball doesn't have much more. Gymnastics, cheerleading, figure skating and diving (all Olympic events minus cheerleading [which is considered a variant of gymnastics anyway], mind you) have subjective scoring but insane physical exertion and/or precision is required. So, which is more important?

 

[Waquoit]

I don't think of it as same or different.

I think that anything requiring mastery of a certain physical action for a competitive activity is a sport. Anyone participating in said sport, who thus has a mastery of a given skill that is important in that sport, is automatically an athlete.

Is Cirque de Soleil a sport?

 

[uconnfan68]

Here is what I use as criteria: If the ability to run fast or quickly is not an asset, then it is a game not a sport and the people who play them are either gamers or athletes.

So having physical gifts that you only dream of isn't enough if they don't run in the game they are playing? Hand-eye coordination not important? Mental toughness overrated?

 

[champs99and04]

I wouldn't say mental toughness is a characteristic that should help define something as a sport. You have to be mentally tough in school or work also, but obviously school is not a sport. Hand-eye coordination is obviously an important characteristic for nearly every athlete, but just because hand-eye coordination is a crucial element in a certain game/event does not necessarily make it a sport.

I'm not sure there is one definition that's going to make sense when defining a sport. I look at as, "Does this pass the eye test?", which is obviously subjective.

Another note: How athletic the general population of people participating in a certain event is does not make it any more or less of a sport than any other sport, if that makes sense. Things like gymnastics, weightlifting, eating, figure skating, etc. are more competitons than sports, IMO. To excel in gymnastics, you have to maintain tip top physical condition, but you could say the same for many other impressive, rarely seen spectacles that people manage to do with their bodies. To people could compete in front of an audience to see who has the ability to complete more consecutive backflips. That's obviously incredibly athletic, but I don't think anybody watching this would consider these two people to be engaging in a sport.

There is really no broad, across the scope definition that anybody is going to be able to provide. I'd just say you know a sport when you see one, just like somebody once said about pornography.

My final verdict is this: NASCAR, gymnastics, competitve cheerleading, weight lifting, competitive eating, golf, bowling, and horse racing are all competitions, while basketball, football, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, baseball, and others are sports. I couldn't give you a tangible reason why, it's just my opinion really. I wouldn't blame anybody for considering any of the above a sport besides competitive eating, which is by any definition, not a sport.

 

[babysheep]

Is Cirque de Soleil a sport?

Last I heard, it isn't a competition.

 

[babysheep]

What about "extreme sports" like skateboarding, BMX, motocross, inline, etc.?

 

[babysheep]

I wouldn't say mental toughness is a characteristic that should help define something as a sport. You have to be mentally tough in school or work also, but obviously school is not a sport. Hand-eye coordination is obviously an important characteristic for nearly every athlete, but just because hand-eye coordination is a crucial element in a certain game/event does not necessarily make it a sport.

I'm not sure there is one definition that's going to make sense when defining a sport. I look at as, "Does this pass the eye test?", which is obviously subjective.

Another note: How athletic the general population of people participating in a certain event is does not make it any more or less of a sport than any other sport, if that makes sense. Things like gymnastics, weightlifting, eating, figure skating, etc. are more competitons than sports, IMO. To excel in gymnastics, you have to maintain tip top physical condition, but you could say the same for many other impressive, rarely seen spectacles that people manage to do with their bodies. To people could compete in front of an audience to see who has the ability to complete more consecutive backflips. That's obviously incredibly athletic, but I don't think anybody watching this would consider these two people to be engaging in a sport.

There is really no broad, across the scope definition that anybody is going to be able to provide. I'd just say you know a sport when you see one, just like somebody once said about pornography.

My final verdict is this: NASCAR, gymnastics, competitve cheerleading, weight lifting, competitive eating, golf, bowling, and horse racing are all competitions, while basketball, football, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, baseball, and others are sports. I couldn't give you a tangible reason why, it's just my opinion really. I wouldn't blame anybody for considering any of the above a sport besides competitive eating, which is by any definition, not a sport.

Let's try to work towards one (or start a whole new debate, depending on your answer)

Would you say that those who play sports (however you choose to define "sport") are automatically athletes?