Aresco Asking Navy to Join Early | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Aresco Asking Navy to Join Early

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freescooter said:
I know one guy, a retired General who is the worst bigot I've ever met, and one who retired as an Admiral who is one of the finest men I know.
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Before I ask this question, keep in mind that I don't know a great deal about the armed forces, but did you just say that you knew an Admiral from West Point?? Isn't the rank of Admiral a "Navy" thing? (I could be dead wrong about that, but...)

EDIT: I'm a dummy. I didn't realize that you were talking about both the Army AND the Navy in the same paragraph. My bad...
 
freescooter said:
You mustn't know any West Pointers or and Navy grads...I hate to burst your bubble, but I know guys who went there out a of a sense of duty, and I know guys who went there because it was the only way they could go to college and I now guys who went there because they wanted to play D-1 athletics and Army was the only place that recruited them. I know one guy, a retired General who is the worst bigot I've ever met, and one who retired as an Admiral who is one of the finest men I know. For the most part, the people who attend the military academies are as varied as any group and motivated by a variety of facotrs. they are regular guys(and I use the term guys much like Geno as all encompassing). That they don't take African American Studies courses (or Naval Sciences courses) a la UNC hardly qualifies them as special. Or did you not understand why this is a scandal at UNC? One would hope that Dexter Manley would not get into many schools, didn't he go to Oklahoma State or somewhere, including UConn if he couldn't read.
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Don't believe any of your "I know" stuff is any more than made up. No one, and I mean no one at all, goes to West Point 'cause "it was the only way they could go to college". Anyone who says that, your statement again "it was the only way they could go to college" and they are talking about West Point is making it up.
 
freescooter said:
You mustn't know any West Pointers or and Navy grads...I hate to burst your bubble, but I know guys who went there out a of a sense of duty, and I know guys who went there because it was the only way they could go to college and I now guys who went there because they wanted to play D-1 athletics and Army was the only place that recruited them. I know one guy, a retired General who is the worst bigot I've ever met, and one who retired as an Admiral who is one of the finest men I know. For the most part, the people who attend the military academies are as varied as any group and motivated by a variety of facotrs. they are regular guys(and I use the term guys much like Geno as all encompassing). That they don't take African American Studies courses (or Naval Sciences courses) a la UNC hardly qualifies them as special. Or did you not understand why this is a scandal at UNC? One would hope that Dexter Manley would not get into many schools, didn't he go to Oklahoma State or somewhere, including UConn if he couldn't read.
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Nope. I have to admit I'm not hanging with generals or admirals.
And, I will say I agree that not all cadets or midshipmen are perfect.
but I'm not going to agree that just anyone gets into the service academies.
 
freescooter said:
You mustn't know any West Pointers or and Navy grads...I hate to burst your bubble, but I know guys who went there out a of a sense of duty, and I know guys who went there because it was the only way they could go to college and I now guys who went there because they wanted to play D-1 athletics and Army was the only place that recruited them. I know one guy, a retired General who is the worst bigot I've ever met, and one who retired as an Admiral who is one of the finest men I know. For the most part, the people who attend the military academies are as varied as any group and motivated by a variety of facotrs. they are regular guys(and I use the term guys much like Geno as all encompassing). That they don't take African American Studies courses (or Naval Sciences courses) a la UNC hardly qualifies them as special. Or did you not understand why this is a scandal at UNC? One would hope that Dexter Manley would not get into many schools, didn't he go to Oklahoma State or somewhere, including UConn if he couldn't read.
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Uhhhhh what? People don't go to the point just cause they couldn't go anywhere else. Do you know how hard it is to get in? You need letters of recommendation, a extremely high high school GPA, extremely high test scores and demonstrate leadership through extracurricular activities. These schools produce some of the brightest minds out there.
 
husky210 said:
Uhhhhh what? People don't go to the point just cause they couldn't go anywhere else. Do you know how hard it is to get in? You need letters of recommendation, a extremely high high school GPA, extremely high test scores and demonstrate leadership through extracurricular activities. These schools produce some of the brightest minds out there.
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Don't you need a letter from a congressman to get in?
 
Has it always been that way? For all we know scooter could be like 94 and the guys he's talking about could've gone there in the 40's
 
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I just finished reading this interesting article:

http://bigeastfans.com/?author=1

"If the Big East can get all three academies along with BYU, the Big East will be certain to receive a television deal on par with or even better than the Atlantic Coast Conference. Television executives want to televise the service academies whether they have good teams or not and in the age of conference realignment, money rules regardless of on the field performance."

Keep in mind that it was written on a site that is named "bigeastfans.com". However, the author makes a strong argument for the value of Army, Navy, and Air Force, irrespective of their on-field prowess. I have to say that I would be pretty happy about those teams joining up with the Big East; I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of Army. Enjoy...
 
u guys see what the wisc ad said yet? great stuff just letting the cat out of the bag. were going to 4 power confs one day and splitting...hope we get a seat.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I just finished reading this interesting article:

http://bigeastfans.com/?author=1

"If the Big East can get all three academies along with BYU, the Big East will be certain to receive a television deal on par with or even better than the Atlantic Coast Conference. Television executives want to televise the service academies whether they have good teams or not and in the age of conference realignment, money rules regardless of on the field performance."

Keep in mind that it was written on a site that is named "bigeastfans.com". However, the author makes a strong argument for the value of Army, Navy, and Air Force, irrespective of their on-field prowess. I have to say that I would be pretty happy about those teams joining up with the Big East; I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of Army. Enjoy...
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Well at least you see Big East Fans. If we hear 8 million a football team I have no idea why anyone thinks the service academies improve that number


If Army, Navy and Air Force are so valuable they can raise Memphis and SDSU to ACC money why are they on CBS cable and why don't they cut their own deal instead of letting the Big East drag them down.

With two seconds of thought it makes no sense.
 
whaler11 said:
Well at least you see Big East Fans. If we hear 8 million a football team I have no idea why anyone thinks the service academies improve that number


If Army, Navy and Air Force are so valuable they can raise Memphis and SDSU to ACC money why are they on CBS cable and why don't they cut their own deal instead of letting the Big East drag them down.

With two seconds of thought it makes no sense.
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Then you didn't take two seconds to read the article. (I'm not surprised by that, by the way, since I'm sure you stopped the second you saw "Big East Fans") The argument is based on inventory and national presentation. In other words, taking teams that cannot fill 100,000 person stadiums but leveraging their large national alumni bases to sell a higher ratings product together. Using the large markets of the Big East and the better draws (i.e., BYU, Boise, Louisville, UConn, etc.) against the national bases of the Army, Navy, and AirForce. We are already banking on one of the three, since Navy is joining in 2015.

On second thought, whether you give it two seconds or not doesn't really matter to me. For those that wish to, enjoy the article. For those that don't, enjoy all the misanthropic threads in the "Football" tab...
 
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UConnDan97 said:
Then you didn't take two seconds to read the article. (I'm not surprised by that, by the way, since I'm sure you stopped the second you saw "Big East Fans") The argument is based on inventory and national presentation. In other words, taking teams that cannot fill 100,000 person stadiums but leveraging their large national alumni bases to sell a higher ratings product together. Using the large markets of the Big East and the better draws (i.e., BYU, Boise, Louisville, UConn, etc.) against the national bases of the Army, Navy, and AirForce. We are already banking on one of the three, since Navy is joining in 2015.

On second thought, whether you give it two seconds or not doesn't really matter to me. For those that wish to, enjoy the article. For those that don't, enjoy all the misanthropic threads in the "Football" tab...
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I read the article and have seen the same argument here a million times.

The Big East has timing on it's side - MLB just got a ridiculous deal. Any other positive is wishful thinking.

Navy is easily the most valuable of the academies and their inclusion makes sense. I just don't see how the promise of the academies aligns with the reality of their contracts and prior ratings.

If the current Big East is worth just $8 million a team at 13 teams... Any addition would need to be worth $22 million to move the meter to $9 million a team. If you were worth $22 million why would you sign up to be paid $9 million.

If ESPN valued Army and Navy at anywhere those numbers they wouldn't be on CBS cable sports being paid peanuts.

Somehow simple math blows up all these theories but still some ignore.
 
It's not about simple math.

It's about competition & what their alternative programming would be. Every argument you make misses the drumbeat of one contract after another surprising knowledgable people. NO ... I don't think any of these Networks will overpay & have an aggregate contract value near the ACC. They won't have to. But, what they are purchasing in the BE content will be relatively cheap & watchable versus the alternative. I think we'll find $10m a school for Football. How do I know this? I believe we've seen leaks.
 
HuskyfanDan said:
u guys see what the wisc ad said yet? great stuff just letting the cat out of the bag. were going to 4 power confs one day and splitting...hope we get a seat.
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ummm ... have you noticed we lack the Big Boosters & the 70,000+ stadium Alvarez would never come close to including us. In fact, he probably thinks our Fiesta Bowl appearance was a tipping point towards his dream.
 
whaler11 said:
I read the article and have seen the same argument here a million times.

The Big East has timing on it's side - MLB just got a ridiculous deal. Any other positive is wishful thinking.

Navy is easily the most valuable of the academies and their inclusion makes sense. I just don't see how the promise of the academies aligns with the reality of their contracts and prior ratings.

If the current Big East is worth just $8 million a team at 13 teams... Any addition would need to be worth $22 million to move the meter to $9 million a team. If you were worth $22 million why would you sign up to be paid $9 million.

If ESPN valued Army and Navy at anywhere those numbers they wouldn't be on CBS cable sports being paid peanuts.

Somehow simple math blows up all these theories but still some ignore.
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By that same logic Syracuse should already have been making $17 million a year. If they were worth $17MM a year, why were they in the Big East at $3-4MM a year blah blah blah.
 
.-.
Navy: "We still don't believe you will still exist in 2015, we just said yes so that you would stop bothering us".
 
husky210 said:
Uhhhhh what? People don't go to the point just cause they couldn't go anywhere else. Do you know how hard it is to get in? You need letters of recommendation, a extremely high high school GPA, extremely high test scores and demonstrate leadership through extracurricular activities. These schools produce some of the brightest minds out there.
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I have both friends and relatives who attended both West Point and the Naval Academy. Sorry but not everyone goes there because they are some super human being. They are regular folks who have all sorts of motivations. I'm related to a retired rear admiral, went to high school with a general (who was always working the system then and apparently continued to do so in his military career) and worked with another retired admiral and happen to know several other Army and Navy grads through various activities. You have to get a congressional recommendation for appointment among other things. Of the 535 members of the House and Senate, some take it very seriously. Some use it as a political plumb, and others are somewhere in the middle. I am told that certain members of the Texas delegation, for example, will only appoint children of Republicans. The members of the Connecticut delegation apparently are pretty rigorous in their evaluation process. But while all of that is interesting, it doesn't take away from the fact that their athletic teams are not that good.
 
husky210 said:
Uhhhhh what? People don't go to the point just cause they couldn't go anywhere else. Do you know how hard it is to get in? You need letters of recommendation, a extremely high high school GPA, extremely high test scores and demonstrate leadership through extracurricular activities. These schools produce some of the brightest minds out there.
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He might be talking about the financial side, not the academic qualifications. At least that's how I interpreted it.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I just finished reading this interesting article:

http://bigeastfans.com/?author=1

"If the Big East can get all three academies along with BYU, the Big East will be certain to receive a television deal on par with or even better than the Atlantic Coast Conference. Television executives want to televise the service academies whether they have good teams or not and in the age of conference realignment, money rules regardless of on the field performance."

Keep in mind that it was written on a site that is named "bigeastfans.com". However, the author makes a strong argument for the value of Army, Navy, and Air Force, irrespective of their on-field prowess. I have to say that I would be pretty happy about those teams joining up with the Big East; I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of Army. Enjoy...
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Also keep in mind the rumored numbers being thrown around for the Big East as is. Apparently adding Air Force and Army (and Navy who's already in) will approximately double the value of the package. All by themselves. Tell me if that passes the smell test. Where's the massive TV deals for these academies right now?

I firmly believe the Big East wants BYU for #14. But BYU is so crazy and unpredictable, you can't use logic with what they'll do. And you can't act like you absolutely want them, because if they turn you down...you look bad. And you can't go to another school and say they were your first choice all along. You play it cool and quiet and hope BYU says yes. But you keep your options open for when/if they say no.
 
This is an impossible debate. On the one hand, no, it makes no sense that adding anyone who is left makes the Big East contract much more valuable, nor does it make sense that the Big East contract should be in the neighborhood of the other BCS conferences. But, on the other hand, it make just as little sense that the SEC became more valuable by adding Missouri, or that the Big XII became more valuable by adding TCU and WVU (who had been paying WVU big bucks?), or that the Pac XII became more valuable by adding Utah.

So what I'm left with is that what has happened to date makes no logical sense, so I therefor can't predict the short term future by using logic. So, there is just nothing to say.

We will know what is happening soon enough. Once the Big East contract is signed, everything will, for better or worse, settle down for a few years. But until the Big East contract is signed, I rule nothing out.
 
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whaler11 said:
I read the article and have seen the same argument here a million times.

The Big East has timing on it's side - MLB just got a ridiculous deal. Any other positive is wishful thinking.

Navy is easily the most valuable of the academies and their inclusion makes sense. I just don't see how the promise of the academies aligns with the reality of their contracts and prior ratings.

If the current Big East is worth just $8 million a team at 13 teams... Any addition would need to be worth $22 million to move the meter to $9 million a team. If you were worth $22 million why would you sign up to be paid $9 million.

If ESPN valued Army and Navy at anywhere those numbers they wouldn't be on CBS cable sports being paid peanuts.

Somehow simple math blows up all these theories but still some ignore.
Expand ...

You do realize that the 8 million per team is an estimate, right? You realize we haven't signed a deal for that exact amount. What I've provided you is someone else making an estimate based on having , Army, Navy, and BYU in the conference together, and what that might be worth. Not what it WILL be worth or what it WOULD be worth once subtracting from it yet another artificial number.

As BizLaw stated, it's all speculation right now, so treat it as such...
 
UConnDan97 said:
You do realize that the 8 million per team is an estimate, right? You realize we haven't signed a deal for that exact amount. What I've provided you is someone else making an estimate based on having , Army, Navy, and BYU in the conference together, and what that might be worth. Not what it WILL be worth or what it WOULD be worth once subtracting from it yet another artificial number.

As BizLaw stated, it's all speculation right now, so treat it as such...
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I was using it as an example. If the number is higher the analysis makes less sense.

As for how great this deal turns out to be we'll see. I don't really expect Air Force and Army to join anyway - nor do I want any part of Army in the league anyway.
 
HobokenHusky said:
Completely agree with this. Was in a house this weekend with Navy and Air Force vets (just the armed forces not the academies) and they were glued to this game even though both teams were horrible. .
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The point is not that they were horrible, but that they were playing a competitive game.
I'll watch Army playing crap teams because it's nice to see them win. I will not watch them lose 47-3 to Rutgers.
 
Big day for Army not able to compete with Kent State. You know the 9th best team in the MAC. Can we please stop with Army. They can't play serious college football.
 
whaler11 said:
Big day for Army not able to compete with Kent State. You know the 9th best team in the MAC. Can we please stop with Army. They can't play serious college football.
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Can you please stop with the "can't play serious college football"? Most people here are arguing for their financial value, not their ability to win the Big East. Those are two very different things....

(if there are those that are arguing that Army CAN win the Big East, then I will retract my statement and join in yours)
 
UConnDan97 said:
Can you please stop with the "can't play serious college football"? Most people here are arguing for their financial value, not their ability to win the Big East. Those are two very different things....

(if there are those that are arguing that Army CAN win the Big East, then I will retract my statement and join in yours)
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You don't have any value if you can't compete. When you lose 35-3 every week people stop watching.
 
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