Aresco Asking Navy to Join Early

[brasssbonanzaa]

The military academies are considered acceptable adds because from a TV perspective, they still bring in eyeballs. Veterans watch them even if they suck, out of sheer pride in their branch of service. Of course none of them will be competitive nationally except on rare occasion, but if they can prove to bring in ratings, that's what matters these days.

I'm not defending the additions, and I still think on the whole they improve the conference very little to not at all, but that's the rationale behind them.

 

[RS9999X]

UConn played at Army twice. It was a fun trip. If Army had to play in the Big East they would win a conference game once every election cycle. Even considering them is insanity.

Army was of interest due to the Yankee Bowl and the ND game. They have BC on tap there for 2014. ND won't play Army there again. With the right program (ND) that's a Tier 1 TV Home game to go along with the Service Academy games on CBS.

 

[whaler11]

They would need to be worth 8+ million to even carry their weight. How could they move the needle on the average. No way are Army and worth 8 figures each.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I could have sworn I heard this but I may be off. Air Force gives players the option to go to the NFL right after college and serve their duty to they air force at a later time. I remember there being a FB who I believe still plays for the Eagles, who was drafted right out of college. Not sure if Navy allows this but I'm almost positive Army does not. So that alone is a major strike against getting recruits who'd play football at a service academy.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Campbell, a safety from Army was drafted in the 7th round after army said they would forgo the military commitment. They changed their mind and he was dismissed from camp to serve active duty... He played for MArion so it was not that long ago.

 

[Husky68]

If have 16 teams need somebody to lose. Right now the following rankings BCS teams:

117 Col
111 Army
105 Kansas
102 BCU
100 Wash State
99 Air Force
96 Ill
94 Indiana
91 Virginia
90 Navy

So 2 ACC, 2B10, 2 B12 and 1 Pac 10. No BE but NNBE has Memphis. Academies could be 3-1 outside league and 1 or 2 or 3 wins in league and be ok. If you want some team to go 11-1 and 10-2 need to have some teams that go 1 or 2 wins in league.

SEC last year of the 12 teams, in league had 1 team 0-8, 1 team 1-7, 3 teams 2-6, 1 team 3-5. So other 6 teams had 28 victories against these 6 or about half of their in conference wins each and helped the 6 average almost 11 wins each including bowl games (most also play 4 of 5 OOC against Sun Belt type competition so 4 conference gimmies and 4 OOC gimmies gets you well on your way to double digit wins before you play anyone good).

 

[Vowelguy]

Having army, navy, and would be awesome.
I'm guessing you are probably correct that army won't join based on their experience with cusa. If that's the case, it's our loss.

Army is terrible. I fail to see their appeal. BE may be able to regularly beat ACC in computer ratings in future years, which will definitely help with perception. It doesnt need more deadweight.

 

[RS9999X]

Army is terrible. I fail to see their appeal. BE may be able to regularly beat ACC in computer ratings in future years, which will definitely help with perception. It doesnt need more deadweight.

Given a 9-game conference schedule, wouldn't Army be a better opponent than an OOC Buffalo and do more for fandom and regional television and potential Yankee Stadium matchups?

 

[Vowelguy]

Given a 9-game conference schedule

Who says there's a 9-game schedule?

 

[Vowelguy]

I think the reason we are trying to get Navy in early is so that we can lure Notre Dame back to the Big East.

rotflmao

 

[RS9999X]

Who says there's a 9-game schedule?

I thought I'd throw that out there .....we don't want WMU or UTSA (5-0) on the schedule .......

 

[UC990411]

Army may lose more games than it wins, but would never suggest its a lack of quality.

Did you mean to add atmosphere at the end of that statement? Because if you lose more than you win isn't it because of quality? Imagine a schedule with Army AND Memphis on it? That's 2 free wins against teams that would struggle in the CAA...


...then again, we may struggle in the CAA

 

[whaler11]

Just because other teams suck doesn't mean Army can be in the Big East.

Teams like Kansas, Colorado and Boston College can win with good coaching. Army can not get players that can compete against legitimate FBS teams.

The ideas that their bowl tie ins would matter? Army would qualify for a bowl in the Big East about as often as you see Haley's Comet.

 

[Vowelguy]

Despite playing against a MAC-dominated schedule (& last facing a ranked team in 2003), Army has made a bowl once in the past 15 years.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Army had some good teams and was a competitive program at least .500 or above, with some good seasons through the 1980s, able to put some decent teams together in the 1990s as well, I think won 10 games in 1995. At the military academies, football is more than winning games, for whatever you think that is worth. THey expect to be competitive, and play well, but life isn't going to end becaue the football team has a 6-6 season or worse, and they will get very fired up about a team that is winning,a dn they do have loyal fan following. Military academy football, is what college football standard should be - all around. IMNSHO.

Since 2001, 725 U.S. Army officers have either been killed in action, or died from wounds sustained in action, compared to less than 100 officer deaths for the Navy and Air Force combined over the same time period.

That's deaths, not all casualties.

I think West Point gets a pass on their football program for the past decade, when it comes to recruiting and play on the field. I'm not sure of the number of new graduates that have died in action shortly after graduation in U.S. military action in the past decade, but last count it was over 100. Tough to recruit for the USMA, when the life expectancy and how long you will live, after graduation is the primary post graduation issue - never mind finding a job.

With the possibility of dying shortly after graduating significantly decreased at West Point now in 2012, there's no reason to think they can't get start recruiting again, to get back to at least the level of competitive football they had prior to the past decade, as they also work like hell to fill our officer ranks back up.

 

[uc1974]

The ideal physical condition required of an Army cadet/officer does not match well with the type of conditioning for football, especially offensive line. Navy (Marine) and Air Force can fudge it a little because well, for the most part (Marines and special ops excluded), they don't have to run around through the boonies with weapons and assorted stuff. I had a VN War friend who played OG for Army and was 70 in. and listed at 260#. You just can't get too much bigger and function. He survived a year as an infantry officer with the Americal Division in I Corps and complained much more about getting pounded in FB than with a VC mortar attack. He was 225# or so when he got home. Also note that having women take slots decreases the number of available males for FB, though that's true of all service academies.

 

[whaler11]

All the respect in the world for their players. They can't compete at a high level. They aren't losing to Stony Brook by accident. It does them no good to join the league. It does the league no good to carry a team that can't finish in the top 100.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The ideal physical condition required of an Army cadet/officer does not match well with the type of conditioning for football, especially offensive line. Navy (Marine) and Air Force can fudge it a little because well, for the most part (Marines and special ops excluded), they don't have to run around through the boonies with weapons and assorted stuff. I had a VN War friend who played OG for Army and was 70 in. and listed at 260#. You just can't get too much bigger and function. He survived a year as an infantry officer with the Americal Division in I Corps and complained much more about getting pounded in FB than with a VC mortar attack. He was 225# or so when he got home. Also note that having women take slots decreases the number of available males for FB, though that's true of all service academies.

True. I'm quite sure though, that if the brass at west point, decides that army is going to play football at the same level that navy plans to play in the future, which they are bound to do, the pentagonn will find room somewhere in the service for large officers.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Army is terrible. I fail to see their appeal. BE may be able to regularly beat ACC in computer ratings in future years, which will definitely help with perception. It doesnt need more deadweight.

Having Army, Navy, and Air Force would bring in three of the most prestigious colleges. It would also bring a level of tradition we don't have. Finally, these programs have meaningful games that bring viewers. It's not all about wins or losses (see Pitt and Syr).

 

[Marty Jackson]

All the respect in the world for their players. They can't compete at a high level. They aren't losing to Stony Brook by accident. It does them no good to join the league. It does the league no good to carry a team that can't finish in the top 100.

They beat bc.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Did you mean to add atmosphere at the end of that statement? Because if you lose more than you win isn't it because of quality? Imagine a schedule with Army AND Memphis on it? That's 2 free wins against teams that would struggle in the CAA...


...then again, we may struggle in the CAA

Suggesting any of the academies lack quality based on their win loss record is a misguided statement.

I meant what I said...

 

[whaler11]

They beat bc.

So now they will be 2-10 instead of 1-11.

 

[HobokenHusky]

The military academies are considered acceptable adds because from a TV perspective, they still bring in eyeballs. Veterans watch them even if they suck, out of sheer pride in their branch of service. Of course none of them will be competitive nationally except on rare occasion, but if they can prove to bring in ratings, that's what matters these days.

I'm not defending the additions, and I still think on the whole they improve the conference very little to not at all, but that's the rationale behind them.

Completely agree with this. Was in a house this weekend with Navy and Air Force vets (just the armed forces not the academies) and they were glued to this game even though both teams were horrible. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have an affiliation to these teams. They usually are not good, but they will help in TV contracts, that is for sure.

 

[UC990411]

Suggesting any of the academies lack quality based on their win loss record is a misguided statement.

I meant what I said...

I don't follow. If they had their win loss record in the SEC that would be one thing,

2012 ARMY BLACK KNIGHTS SCHEDULE
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 8
@
San Diego State
L42-7
0-1
Sat, Sept 15
vs
Northern Illinois
L41-40
0-2
Sat, Sept 22
@
Wake Forest
L49-37
0-3
Sat, Sept 29
vs
Stony Brook
L23-3
0-4
Sat, Oct 6
vs
Boston College
W34-31
1-4
Sat, Oct 13
vs
Kent State
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Oct 20
@
Eastern Michigan
1:00 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Oct 27
vs
Ball State
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 3
vs
Air Force
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 10
@
#20 Rutgers
TBD Tickets
Sat, Nov 17
vs
Temple
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Dec 8
vs
Navy*
3:00 PM ET CBS Tickets


2012 NAVY MIDSHIPMEN SCHEDULE
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 1
vs
Notre Dame*
L50-10
0-1
Sat, Sept 15
@
Penn State
L34-7
0-2
Sat, Sept 22
vs
Virginia Military Institute
W41-3
1-2
Sat, Sept 29
vs
San Jose State
L12-0
1-3
Sat, Oct 6
@
Air Force
W28-21 OT
2-3
Fri, Oct 12
@
Central Michigan
8:00 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Oct 20
vs
Indiana
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Oct 27
@
East Carolina
TBD Tickets
Sat, Nov 3
vs
Florida Atlantic
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 10
@
Troy
3:30 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Nov 17
vs
Texas State
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Dec 8
vs
Army*
3:00 PM ET CBS Tickets

 

[Marty Jackson]

I don't follow. If they had their win loss record in the SEC that would be one thing,

2012 ARMY BLACK KNIGHTS SCHEDULE
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 8
@
San Diego State
L42-7
0-1
Sat, Sept 15
vs
Northern Illinois
L41-40
0-2
Sat, Sept 22
@
Wake Forest
L49-37
0-3
Sat, Sept 29
vs
Stony Brook
L23-3
0-4
Sat, Oct 6
vs
Boston College
W34-31
1-4
Sat, Oct 13
vs
Kent State
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Oct 20
@
Eastern Michigan
1:00 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Oct 27
vs
Ball State
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 3
vs
Air Force
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 10
@
#20 Rutgers
TBD Tickets
Sat, Nov 17
vs
Temple
12:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Dec 8
vs
Navy*
3:00 PM ET CBS Tickets


2012 NAVY MIDSHIPMEN SCHEDULE
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 1
vs
Notre Dame*
L50-10
0-1
Sat, Sept 15
@
Penn State
L34-7
0-2
Sat, Sept 22
vs
Virginia Military Institute
W41-3
1-2
Sat, Sept 29
vs
San Jose State
L12-0
1-3
Sat, Oct 6
@
Air Force
W28-21 OT
2-3
Fri, Oct 12
@
Central Michigan
8:00 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Oct 20
vs
Indiana
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Oct 27
@
East Carolina
TBD Tickets
Sat, Nov 3
vs
Florida Atlantic
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Nov 10
@
Troy
3:30 PM ET Tickets
Sat, Nov 17
vs
Texas State
3:30 PM ET CBS Sports Network Tickets
Sat, Dec 8
vs
Army*
3:00 PM ET CBS Tickets

You want to judge army by whether they win or lose. All I'm saying is that may be somewhat shortsighted. There are very few schools that bring the tradition, history and prestige of the service academies. Regardless of how these schools perform on the field, the players on these teams are some of our country's finest leaders.
Having them in the be allows Uconn and the other schools to benefit from that association. the academies have a significant following, bring a couple marquee games, and have brand cache.

 

[whaler11]

As for TV ratings NBC got their two lowest Notre Dame ratings of all time last year. Those two games were against Navy and Air Force.

 

[Chin Diesel]

As for TV ratings NBC got their two lowest Notre Dame ratings of all time last year. Those two games were against Navy and Air Force.

Out of curiosity, I wonder (not a strong enough curiosity to actually do any research myself, but enough to wonder aloud on a message board) how NDU's "worst" rated games compared to our normal ratings.

 

[freescooter]

You want to judge army by whether they win or lose. All I'm saying is that may be somewhat shortsighted. There are very few schools that bring the tradition, history and prestige of the service academies. Regardless of how these schools perform on the field, the players on these teams are some of our country's finest leaders.
Having them in the be allows Uconn and the other schools to benefit from that association. the academies have a significant following, bring a couple marquee games, and have brand cache.

Well, we're talking about an athletic league, so to me performance on the field is pretty relevant. And as a rule, the academies' teams are not that good. For lots of very defensible reasons perhaps. I'm not sure that it is in anyone's interests to have Army and Navy going 4-8 in a good year. Frankly, I think they are all better off playing the type of schedules they currently play, where a winning record and a bowl bid are both within the realm of possibility. As far as the guys who play there, they are like any one else. Some are fine leaders, some are pompous asses, and some are just ordinary guys who chose the military as a career. They aren't better or worse than anyone else. Don't mean to sound unpatriotic or anything, but the near hero worship is really a little silly when we are looking to strengthen a football league.

 

[whaler11]

Out of curiosity, I wonder (not a strong enough curiosity to actually do any research myself, but enough to wonder aloud on a message board) how NDU's "worst" rated games compared to our normal ratings.

Well the Big East average on ESPN has floated around and it's much higher than the ND 1.1 million floor. Don't know what floats around on the regionals Big East Network games but would doubt the SNY broadcasts get 100k.

 

[Husky68]

Well, we're talking about an athletic league, so to me performance on the field is pretty relevant. And as a rule, the academies' teams are not that good. For lots of very defensible reasons perhaps. I'm not sure that it is in anyone's interests to have Army and Navy going 4-8 in a good year. Frankly, I think they are all better off playing the type of schedules they currently play, where a winning record and a bowl bid are both within the realm of possibility. As far as the guys who play there, they are like any one else. Some are fine leaders, some are pompous asses, and some are just ordinary guys who chose the military as a career. They aren't better or worse than anyone else. Don't mean to sound unpatriotic or anything, but the near hero worship is really a little silly when we are looking to strengthen a football league.

I beg to differ. To say that "They aren't better or worse than anyone else." may be your opinion but you state it as fact and that just isn't so. Think LM is still on the Army team? Does anyone make jokes about playing Army early in the season like the ol' ball coach does about Georgia?
It's not "just ordinary guys who chose the military as a career", the ordianry guys who chose the military as a career don't go to military academies.
How many West Point players take UNC type African American studies classes? You think Dexter Manley could have gone to West Point while unable to read?
You must be unmarried and have no legal obligation to support a child to enter West Point. You must be nominated by congressmen or from military sources. Yeah, your typical Div 1a football players.

 

[freescooter]

You mustn't know any West Pointers or and Navy grads...I hate to burst your bubble, but I know guys who went there out a of a sense of duty, and I know guys who went there because it was the only way they could go to college and I now guys who went there because they wanted to play D-1 athletics and Army was the only place that recruited them. I know one guy, a retired General who is the worst bigot I've ever met, and one who retired as an Admiral who is one of the finest men I know. For the most part, the people who attend the military academies are as varied as any group and motivated by a variety of facotrs. they are regular guys(and I use the term guys much like Geno as all encompassing). That they don't take African American Studies courses (or Naval Sciences courses) a la UNC hardly qualifies them as special. Or did you not understand why this is a scandal at UNC? One would hope that Dexter Manley would not get into many schools, didn't he go to Oklahoma State or somewhere, including UConn if he couldn't read.