Are we underestimating the Big East? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Are we underestimating the Big East?

Fan1978 said:
I would argue that is not the case. Portal and nil has caused a broader dispersion of talent. Prior to this new era, Alabama football had so many 5 star studs riding the pine. The 5th rb may have been the best or little or no drop off. Now the guys leave and when injuries come no depth. Consequently, Alabama is marginal. The sec is no longer dominant and the big ten has won the last 2 titles and rhis year will be 3. Nobody can afford to pay for the depth of the prior era and players want to play and money. Good coaches is the key. Big east will be fine, this is just a down year. Creighton lost a key piece early, shaka needs to wake up, pc coach needs to go. Georgetown will get there under cooley. Depaul is massively improved and seton hall is for real. This year is an air pocket
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There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.
 
RuffRuff said:
There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.
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The good guys and st johns are givens under current coaches. Villanova will be back next year. Then we just need a few more to step up. Xavier will certainly get better players next year. Georgetown was there this year if freshman stayed. You can say that for most teams. If shaka was not so stubborn, they would be good this year. Nobody is awful like depaul last few years and georgtown under ewing. The league has good coaches and is due a few breaks. I could certainly be wrong but optimistic
 
RuffRuff said:
There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.
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What is three years running? The Big East (UConn) has won 2 of the 3 last national championships. Creighton was a controversial foul call with one second left away from the final 4 and most likely would've been playing UConn for the national championship in '23 if that didn't happen. Everyone who follows the sport was saying the league got screwed out of bids in 2024. The Big East was #2 in the country in KenPom and only got 3 bids, all three Big East bids were in the sweet 16 and UConn won the championship in the most dominant fashion ever.

For this season St. John's had the #1 ranked portal, Creighton #12, Georgetown #31, Providence #32, UConn #33, Xavier #38. Sometimes teams just disappoint.
 
Fan1978 said:
Biggest competition is the lousy big east refs that hate hurley. They should be sent to sec officiating school where one rule exists. Georgia and Alabama are going to the playoff and if they need help make it happen. The jackass with the white hair is the worst.
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No
 
RuffRuff said:
There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.
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Providence can absolutely attract a good coach. Why? They are the number #1 brand in their state, they have some recent tournament appearances, and they spend on revenue sharing as evidenced by the players that they sniped from other P5 schools in the portal.
 
superjohn said:
What is three years running? The Big East (UConn) has won 2 of the 3 last national championships. Creighton was a controversial foul call with one second left away from the final 4 and most likely would've been playing UConn for the national championship in '23 if that didn't happen. Everyone who follows the sport was saying the league got screwed out of bids in 2024. The Big East was #2 in the country in KenPom and only got 3 bids, all three Big East bids were in the sweet 16 and UConn won the championship in the most dominant fashion ever.

For this season St. John's had the #1 ranked portal, Creighton #12, Georgetown #31, Providence #32, UConn #33, Xavier #38. Sometimes teams just disappoint.
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The league has been down last year and this year. We are not down from last year, however, as many think. We actually won the exact same percentage (44%) of games against the P4 this year as last (playing 9 additional P4 games) and we will have a higher overall OOC winning percentage. The perception that the league stinks comes from the fact that the ACC is better. Last year the ACC was atrocious so no one was looking at the Big East.
 
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Fan1978 said:
The good guys and st johns are givens under current coaches. Villanova will be back next year. Then we just need a few more to step up. Xavier will certainly get better players next year. Georgetown was there this year if freshman stayed. You can say that for most teams. If shaka was not so stubborn, they would be good this year. Nobody is awful like depaul last few years and georgtown under ewing. The league has good coaches and is due a few breaks. I could certainly be wrong but optimistic
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Don't underestimate Holloway and Seton Hall, either. They have invested in facilities a bit. Given the schools location in the New York Metro area, I think they can find a niche where they are annually relevant. Not necessarily chasing championships, but relevant.
 
I expect Nova to be a tournament team pretty much every year going forward under Willard, and if he does get it going I expect him to be there a while. Villanova is a top-15 brand in college basketball and the #2 brand in the league. They will be fine.

We will be fine of course.

Xavier and Marquette ultimately are solid regardless of coach historically so I am not too worried about them.

As long as Seton Hall invests in Holloway, he will produce, and I don't think he is going anywhere if he is successful as it is his alma mater.

St. John's will be good if Repole continues to spend and they get a good coach post-Pitino.

If Providence continues to invest in revenue sharing, and they higher a winning (not average) mid-major coach, I think they will be solid.

I can't figure out why Georgetown can't succeed. They spent the money on a coach and a roster. They even scheduled well. At some point, I think things will average out and they will figure it out.

I am less bullish on Creighton than others long term. They have a great fan base and they spend on revenue sharing, but I don't trust them post-McDermott.

This feels like a really big year for Butler. A tournament bid will really help right the ship. Their problem is money. They have one of the lowest revenue sharing budgets in the league, and Thad Matta is about a good of a coach as they are going to get.

DePaul is DePaul.
 
shizzle787 said:
I expect Nova to be a tournament team pretty much every year going forward under Willard, and if he does get it going I expect him to be there a while. Villanova is a top-15 brand in college basketball and the #2 brand in the league. They will be fine.

We will be fine of course.

Xavier and Marquette ultimately are solid regardless of coach historically so I am not too worried about them.

As long as Seton Hall invests in Holloway, he will produce, and I don't think he is going anywhere if he is successful as it is his alma mater.

St. John's will be good if Repole continues to spend and they get a good coach post-Pitino.

If Providence continues to invest in revenue sharing, and they higher a winning (not average) mid-major coach, I think they will be solid.

I can't figure out why Georgetown can't succeed. They spent the money on a coach and a roster. They even scheduled well. At some point, I think things will average out and they will figure it out.

I am less bullish on Creighton than others long term. They have a great fan base and they spend on revenue sharing, but I don't trust them post-McDermott.

This feels like a really big year for Butler. A tournament bid will really help right the ship. Their problem is money. They have one of the lowest revenue sharing budgets in the league, and Thad Matta is about a good of a coach as they are going to get.

DePaul is DePaul.
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Depaul now has a good coach and massive investment in new facilities. 60 million if i remember correctly. Reason for optimism here
 
UCann said:
Well, after recent games, I can confidently answer the question posed by the thread title with the following:

“No”
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If anything I think we have OVERestimated the league
 
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shizzle787 said:
The league has been down last year and this year. We are not down from last year, however, as many think. We actually won the exact same percentage (44%) of games against the P4 this year as last (playing 9 additional P4 games) and we will have a higher overall OOC winning percentage. The perception that the league stinks comes from the fact that the ACC is better. Last year the ACC was atrocious so no one was looking at the Big East.
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I do love your positivity, as irrational as it often gets.

We may get 4-5 teams in because the the tournament needs teams, but make no mistake, these are not teams that have any chance to do a thing. So yes, it nets the BE revenue, but if we get 4 teams in that lose in the first round, not sure how proud a moment that is.

It's not a good league my man. You can spin the numbers however you'd like. Every national media team covering college hoops often uses the term "stinks". Perception is reality as it comes to that view.
 
RuffRuff said:
I do love your positivity, as irrational as it often gets.

We may get 4-5 teams in because the the tournament needs teams, but make no mistake, these are not teams that have any chance to do a thing. So yes, it nets the BE revenue, but if we get 4 teams in that lose in the first round, not sure how proud a moment that is.

It's not a good league my man. You can spin the numbers however you'd like. Every national media team covering college hoops often uses the term "stinks". Perception is reality as it comes to that view.
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Don't get me wrong, I am disappointed with the league's performance this year (esp. St. John's, Marquette, and Creighton). However, the Big East is very much a major (power) league in basketball even if it is the weakest. That is my point. As a league, the Big East went 22-28 against the P4. That is power league. We also only lost six games against non-P4 teams (@Gonzaga, N vs. Dayton, and home games vs. Dayton, Boise State, Santa Clara, and Buffalo). My issue is not with those that say the league is down (it is- from two and three years ago- not from last year), it is with those that suggest that it is not a power league when all metrics say that it is (KenPom, NET, Torvik, EvanMiya, Massey, etc.).
 
shizzle787 said:
Don't get me wrong, I am disappointed with the league's performance this year (esp. St. John's, Marquette, and Creighton). However, the Big East is very much a major (power) league in basketball even if it is the weakest. That is my point. As a league, the Big East went 22-28 against the P4. That is power league. We also only lost six games against non-P4 teams (@Gonzaga, N vs. Dayton, and home games vs. Dayton, Boise State, Santa Clara, and Buffalo). My issue is not with those that say the league is down (it is- from two and three years ago- not from last year), it is with those that suggest that it is not a power league when all metrics say that it is (KenPom, NET, Torvik, EvanMiya, Massey, etc.).
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Fair - although it's clearly a step below the real power conferences.
 
If I were to tier out the sport this year, this is how it would go:

Tier 1- power leagues:

1A: Big 12, Big Ten, SEC
1B: ACC, Big East

Tier 2- mid majors:

2A: MW, WCC
2B: A-10, MVC, American
 
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RuffRuff said:
I do love your positivity, as irrational as it often gets.

We may get 4-5 teams in because the the tournament needs teams, but make no mistake, these are not teams that have any chance to do a thing. So yes, it nets the BE revenue, but if we get 4 teams in that lose in the first round, not sure how proud a moment that is.

It's not a good league my man. You can spin the numbers however you'd like. Every national media team covering college hoops often uses the term "stinks". Perception is reality as it comes to that view.
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Don't think Shizz is positive or irrational. Just calls it like he sees it. Not a "sky is falling" guy. Always seems to have facts. I see his stuff as best case and worst case scenario analysis. He is, as are all of us, disappointed in some of our traditional strong programs(Marquette, Creighton), happy for Seton Hall, pissed at Pitino and St Johns, see's the skies clearing for Villanova and Xavier, is realistic about Butler, and scratches his head about PC and Georgetown. What is irrational about those takes? Reality is worst case we are a 3 bid league, and best case 5, with a silly Torvik take of 6.

Hoping for 4 because 2 kept improving and strengthening as the season went on(Nova nd Hall), one got its head out of the netherworlds(StJ's), and the good guys end up looking the part of a 1 seed.
 
RuffRuff said:
Fair - although it's clearly a step below the real power conferences.
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This season but it's so difficult to compare an 11 team conference to these mega 16 and 18 team conferences.

With a terrible Marquette and a down Creighton the conference is hurt this season, no way around that.
 
shizzle787 said:
Don't get me wrong, I am disappointed with the league's performance this year (esp. St. John's, Marquette, and Creighton). However, the Big East is very much a major (power) league in basketball even if it is the weakest. That is my point. As a league, the Big East went 22-28 against the P4. That is power league. We also only lost six games against non-P4 teams (@Gonzaga, N vs. Dayton, and home games vs. Dayton, Boise State, Santa Clara, and Buffalo). My issue is not with those that say the league is down (it is- from two and three years ago- not from last year), it is with those that suggest that it is not a power league when all metrics say that it is (KenPom, NET, Torvik, EvanMiya, Massey, etc.).
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I'm curious how much UConn has provided in the metrics for the BE these past four years.
 
shizzle787 said:
If I were to tier out the sport this year, this is how it would go:

Tier 1- power leagues:

1A: Big 12, Big Ten, SEC
1B: ACC, Big East

Tier 2- mid majors:

2A: MW, WCC
2B: A-10, MVC, American
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Weird how any posters wish UConn was still in the American.
 
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