Are we underestimating the Big East?

[How Sway?!]

Let the march begin!
View attachment 114678

This might be the worst AI "art" of all time. Truly impressive.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson strikes again! Good one Nelson! Not at all like it’s a thread about the Big East being weak or not.

Why don’t you start a thread on the CR board along the lines of “The Big East is the worst conference in any sport in the history of sports” and take the rest of the haters with you? That way the rest of us who want to post about UConn sports don’t have to deal with every single freaking thread getting hijacked by this topic.

And I put the chance that you are an actual UConn fan and not a BCU or Syracuse or something like it troll at about 25%.

 

[RuffRuff]

Why don’t you start a thread on the CR board along the lines of “The Big East is the worst conference in any sport in the history of sports” and take the rest of the haters with you? That way the rest of us who want to post about UConn sports don’t have to deal with every single freaking thread getting hijacked by this topic.

And I put the chance that you are an actual UConn fan and not a BCU or Syracuse or something like it troll at about 25%.

I don't think anyone hates the BE - likely a little frustrated over the fact it's in a descending pattern that is unlikely to stop (I know some will argue this). Too many factors pointing in the direction that it won't. We're a state school with a FB program in a league of FB-less Catholics, with the best mens/womens hoop program. We're now kinda carrying the league.

I spoke to my niece this week about where her top student friends are applying to college. They're targeting schools like Clemson, Georgia & Tennessee. This is the trend folks. Social Media is driving it. Kids these days are gravitating to big brand state schools in warmer locations, as they see all the culture there as attractive. The football games, the social events, the culture.

 

[RashadRay11]

Why don’t you start a thread on the CR board along the lines of “The Big East is the worst conference in any sport in the history of sports” and take the rest of the haters with you? That way the rest of us who want to post about UConn sports don’t have to deal with every single freaking thread getting hijacked by this topic.

And I put the chance that you are an actual UConn fan and not a BCU or Syracuse or something like it troll at about 25%.

This is literally a thread about the quality of the big east Nelson. No one is engaging with your asinine straw-men anymore.

 

[Inyatkin]

I don't think anyone hates the BE - likely a little frustrated over the fact it's in a descending pattern that is unlikely to stop (I know some will argue this). Too many factors pointing in the direction that it won't. We're a state school with a FB program in a league of FB-less Catholics, with the best mens/womens hoop program. We're now kinda carrying the league.

I spoke to my niece this week about where her top student friends are applying to college. They're targeting schools like Clemson, Georgia & Tennessee. This is the trend folks. Social Media is driving it. Kids these days are gravitating to big brand state schools in warmer locations, as they see all the culture there as attractive. The football games, the social events, the culture.

Does it need to be said that speaking to your niece is not enough to draw broad conclusions from? Apparently it does.

Also apparently SEC football is a recent phenomenon

 

[superjohn]

Does it need to be said that speaking to your niece is not enough to draw broad conclusions from? Apparently it does.

Also apparently SEC football is a recent phenomenon

Way more northeast kids are going to SEC schools in the last decade or so than they used to, it's well documented. I don't really see how it relates to Big East basketball though.

 

[Inyatkin]

I have a niece, too. She's looking at small northeastern schools with little to no sports identity. That's the trend, folks

 

[Inyatkin]

Way more northeast kids are going to SEC schools in the last decade or so than they used to, it's well documented. I don't really see how it relates to Big East basketball though.

The Northeast and Midwest have been losing the population battle in all kinds of ways to warmer parts of the country for decades. Somehow UConn basketball survives. And since the university itself is unlikely to move to, say, Georgia, I can't imagine why we're talking about this

 

[FightOnCT]

Are you trying to see if you can make every thread on the basketball board about your hatred of the Big East?

No, that is a genuinely accurate statement for this year.

 

[RuffRuff]

The Northeast and Midwest have been losing the population battle in all kinds of ways to warmer parts of the country for decades. Somehow UConn basketball survives. And since the university itself is unlikely to move to, say, Georgia, I can't imagine why we're talking about this

UConn basketball will survive, the idea is that it continues to flourish- it's the BE that draws the concern.

How the general pop relates to basketball is that it's a trend across age demo driven much by Social Media.

 

[superjohn]

UConn basketball will survive, the idea is that it continues to flourish- it's the BE that draws the concern.

How the general pop relates to basketball is that it's a trend across age demo driven much by Social Media.

It's driven by costs, social media, college culture, politics, ease of getting in, weather, lockdowns etc.

I still don't know how it relates to Big East basketball. Players are going to pick schools based on getting them to the league, money, winning tradition, coaching etc.

 

[freescooter]

It is really hard to go 20-0 in any conference. Crazy upsets happen. Guys get hurt and it takes a couple of games to adjust (happened to us when Clingon got hurt at Seton Hall). You just have an awful shooting night or guys just aren’t into it for some reason. It happens. And it isn’t uncommon to see a crazy upset even of really good teams. On the other hand if Butler is the #3 team in the league, any loss will be pretty much an upset.

 

[freescooter]

His next comment will be “so you want to move back to the American”.

Nelson strikes again! Good one Nelson! Not at all like it’s a thread about the Big East being weak or not.

 

[RuffRuff]

It is really hard to go 20-0 in any conference. Crazy upsets happen. Guys get hurt and it takes a couple of games to adjust (happened to us when Clingon got hurt at Seton Hall). You just have an awful shooting night or guys just aren’t into it for some reason. It happens. And it isn’t uncommon to see a crazy upset even of really good teams. On the other hand if Butler is the #3 team in the league, any loss will be pretty much an upset.

True but I do think the disparity between the haves and have nots grows wider every year due to the portal and economics.

 

[Fan1978]

True but I do think the disparity between the haves and have nots grows wider every year due to the portal and economics.

I would argue that is not the case. Portal and nil has caused a broader dispersion of talent. Prior to this new era, Alabama football had so many 5 star studs riding the pine. The 5th rb may have been the best or little or no drop off. Now the guys leave and when injuries come no depth. Consequently, Alabama is marginal. The sec is no longer dominant and the big ten has won the last 2 titles and rhis year will be 3. Nobody can afford to pay for the depth of the prior era and players want to play and money. Good coaches is the key. Big east will be fine, this is just a down year. Creighton lost a key piece early, shaka needs to wake up, pc coach needs to go. Georgetown will get there under cooley. Depaul is massively improved and seton hall is for real. This year is an air pocket

 

[RuffRuff]

I would argue that is not the case. Portal and nil has caused a broader dispersion of talent. Prior to this new era, Alabama football had so many 5 star studs riding the pine. The 5th rb may have been the best or little or no drop off. Now the guys leave and when injuries come no depth. Consequently, Alabama is marginal. The sec is no longer dominant and the big ten has won the last 2 titles and rhis year will be 3. Nobody can afford to pay for the depth of the prior era and players want to play and money. Good coaches is the key. Big east will be fine, this is just a down year. Creighton lost a key piece early, shaka needs to wake up, pc coach needs to go. Georgetown will get there under cooley. Depaul is massively improved and seton hall is for real. This year is an air pocket

There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.

 

[Fan1978]

There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.

The good guys and st johns are givens under current coaches. Villanova will be back next year. Then we just need a few more to step up. Xavier will certainly get better players next year. Georgetown was there this year if freshman stayed. You can say that for most teams. If shaka was not so stubborn, they would be good this year. Nobody is awful like depaul last few years and georgtown under ewing. The league has good coaches and is due a few breaks. I could certainly be wrong but optimistic

 

[superjohn]

There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.

What is three years running? The Big East (UConn) has won 2 of the 3 last national championships. Creighton was a controversial foul call with one second left away from the final 4 and most likely would've been playing UConn for the national championship in '23 if that didn't happen. Everyone who follows the sport was saying the league got screwed out of bids in 2024. The Big East was #2 in the country in KenPom and only got 3 bids, all three Big East bids were in the sweet 16 and UConn won the championship in the most dominant fashion ever.

For this season St. John's had the #1 ranked portal, Creighton #12, Georgetown #31, Providence #32, UConn #33, Xavier #38. Sometimes teams just disappoint.

 

[ARIDE]

Biggest competition is the lousy big east refs that hate hurley. They should be sent to sec officiating school where one rule exists. Georgia and Alabama are going to the playoff and if they need help make it happen. The jackass with the white hair is the worst.

No

 

[shizzle787]

There is some validity here, but what do you see coming in next year that changes that? Can PC attract a good coach? Can any of these schools attract top talent from HS or Portal?

Cooley will get there - it's 3 years and he has a team that is KenPom 100+. DePaul had no where to go but up, and is still a KP 100+ school (last nights win at Marquette may have helped). Love Shaheen, but he can only be so much of a magician. This is a rosey take. We're following a trend here - it's 3+ years running. It's not a one year air pocket. And you can look at the HS signings and returning roster projections. The one school that I think will get back there is Nova.

Providence can absolutely attract a good coach. Why? They are the number #1 brand in their state, they have some recent tournament appearances, and they spend on revenue sharing as evidenced by the players that they sniped from other P5 schools in the portal.

 

[shizzle787]

What is three years running? The Big East (UConn) has won 2 of the 3 last national championships. Creighton was a controversial foul call with one second left away from the final 4 and most likely would've been playing UConn for the national championship in '23 if that didn't happen. Everyone who follows the sport was saying the league got screwed out of bids in 2024. The Big East was #2 in the country in KenPom and only got 3 bids, all three Big East bids were in the sweet 16 and UConn won the championship in the most dominant fashion ever.

For this season St. John's had the #1 ranked portal, Creighton #12, Georgetown #31, Providence #32, UConn #33, Xavier #38. Sometimes teams just disappoint.

The league has been down last year and this year. We are not down from last year, however, as many think. We actually won the exact same percentage (44%) of games against the P4 this year as last (playing 9 additional P4 games) and we will have a higher overall OOC winning percentage. The perception that the league stinks comes from the fact that the ACC is better. Last year the ACC was atrocious so no one was looking at the Big East.

 

[CL82]

The good guys and st johns are givens under current coaches. Villanova will be back next year. Then we just need a few more to step up. Xavier will certainly get better players next year. Georgetown was there this year if freshman stayed. You can say that for most teams. If shaka was not so stubborn, they would be good this year. Nobody is awful like depaul last few years and georgtown under ewing. The league has good coaches and is due a few breaks. I could certainly be wrong but optimistic

Don't underestimate Holloway and Seton Hall, either. They have invested in facilities a bit. Given the schools location in the New York Metro area, I think they can find a niche where they are annually relevant. Not necessarily chasing championships, but relevant.

 

[shizzle787]

I expect Nova to be a tournament team pretty much every year going forward under Willard, and if he does get it going I expect him to be there a while. Villanova is a top-15 brand in college basketball and the #2 brand in the league. They will be fine.

We will be fine of course.

Xavier and Marquette ultimately are solid regardless of coach historically so I am not too worried about them.

As long as Seton Hall invests in Holloway, he will produce, and I don't think he is going anywhere if he is successful as it is his alma mater.

St. John's will be good if Repole continues to spend and they get a good coach post-Pitino.

If Providence continues to invest in revenue sharing, and they higher a winning (not average) mid-major coach, I think they will be solid.

I can't figure out why Georgetown can't succeed. They spent the money on a coach and a roster. They even scheduled well. At some point, I think things will average out and they will figure it out.

I am less bullish on Creighton than others long term. They have a great fan base and they spend on revenue sharing, but I don't trust them post-McDermott.

This feels like a really big year for Butler. A tournament bid will really help right the ship. Their problem is money. They have one of the lowest revenue sharing budgets in the league, and Thad Matta is about a good of a coach as they are going to get.

DePaul is DePaul.

 

[UCann]

Well, after recent games, I can confidently answer the question posed by the thread title with the following:

“No”

 

[Fan1978]

I expect Nova to be a tournament team pretty much every year going forward under Willard, and if he does get it going I expect him to be there a while. Villanova is a top-15 brand in college basketball and the #2 brand in the league. They will be fine.

We will be fine of course.

Xavier and Marquette ultimately are solid regardless of coach historically so I am not too worried about them.

As long as Seton Hall invests in Holloway, he will produce, and I don't think he is going anywhere if he is successful as it is his alma mater.

St. John's will be good if Repole continues to spend and they get a good coach post-Pitino.

If Providence continues to invest in revenue sharing, and they higher a winning (not average) mid-major coach, I think they will be solid.

I can't figure out why Georgetown can't succeed. They spent the money on a coach and a roster. They even scheduled well. At some point, I think things will average out and they will figure it out.

I am less bullish on Creighton than others long term. They have a great fan base and they spend on revenue sharing, but I don't trust them post-McDermott.

This feels like a really big year for Butler. A tournament bid will really help right the ship. Their problem is money. They have one of the lowest revenue sharing budgets in the league, and Thad Matta is about a good of a coach as they are going to get.

DePaul is DePaul.

Depaul now has a good coach and massive investment in new facilities. 60 million if i remember correctly. Reason for optimism here

 

[RashadRay11]

Well, after recent games, I can confidently answer the question posed by the thread title with the following:

“No”

If anything I think we have OVERestimated the league

 

[shizzle787]

If anything I think we have OVERestimated the league

Not really. The expectation was 3-5 bids going in, and that is exactly where we are on 12/21.

 

[RuffRuff]

The league has been down last year and this year. We are not down from last year, however, as many think. We actually won the exact same percentage (44%) of games against the P4 this year as last (playing 9 additional P4 games) and we will have a higher overall OOC winning percentage. The perception that the league stinks comes from the fact that the ACC is better. Last year the ACC was atrocious so no one was looking at the Big East.

I do love your positivity, as irrational as it often gets.

We may get 4-5 teams in because the the tournament needs teams, but make no mistake, these are not teams that have any chance to do a thing. So yes, it nets the BE revenue, but if we get 4 teams in that lose in the first round, not sure how proud a moment that is.

It's not a good league my man. You can spin the numbers however you'd like. Every national media team covering college hoops often uses the term "stinks". Perception is reality as it comes to that view.

 

[shizzle787]

I do love your positivity, as irrational as it often gets.

We may get 4-5 teams in because the the tournament needs teams, but make no mistake, these are not teams that have any chance to do a thing. So yes, it nets the BE revenue, but if we get 4 teams in that lose in the first round, not sure how proud a moment that is.

It's not a good league my man. You can spin the numbers however you'd like. Every national media team covering college hoops often uses the term "stinks". Perception is reality as it comes to that view.

Don't get me wrong, I am disappointed with the league's performance this year (esp. St. John's, Marquette, and Creighton). However, the Big East is very much a major (power) league in basketball even if it is the weakest. That is my point. As a league, the Big East went 22-28 against the P4. That is power league. We also only lost six games against non-P4 teams (@Gonzaga, N vs. Dayton, and home games vs. Dayton, Boise State, Santa Clara, and Buffalo). My issue is not with those that say the league is down (it is- from two and three years ago- not from last year), it is with those that suggest that it is not a power league when all metrics say that it is (KenPom, NET, Torvik, EvanMiya, Massey, etc.).

 

[RuffRuff]

Don't get me wrong, I am disappointed with the league's performance this year (esp. St. John's, Marquette, and Creighton). However, the Big East is very much a major (power) league in basketball even if it is the weakest. That is my point. As a league, the Big East went 22-28 against the P4. That is power league. We also only lost six games against non-P4 teams (@Gonzaga, N vs. Dayton, and home games vs. Dayton, Boise State, Santa Clara, and Buffalo). My issue is not with those that say the league is down (it is- from two and three years ago- not from last year), it is with those that suggest that it is not a power league when all metrics say that it is (KenPom, NET, Torvik, EvanMiya, Massey, etc.).

Fair - although it's clearly a step below the real power conferences.