Are we gonna keep pretending... | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Are we gonna keep pretending...

fleudslipcon said:
I don't think one person believes there is a guarantee about anything. That's life. Things can turn around next year or never. Those are the extremes. KO can be a bad coach who the APR disguised or a good coach hurt by the APR. I'm one of those who argue the latter. I can't be 100% sure I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. I hear the complaints of people after games. I understand their concerns. I just put in my computer parameters that are different than yours. Or maybe similar parameters but come to different conclusions. None of us can see the future so it really comes down to educated guessing.


Of course it's possible that if KO doesn't work out UConn can attract a great coach. And it's possible that a coach replacing KO, should UConn need to make that choice, can make the program worse. How can anyone know things with certainty? If that were the case why hasn't Texas, a university that is far ahead of all other universities when it comes to athletic resources, struggle as much as it does?
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That's what I was getting at, many posters here have said we can't possibly get anyone better than Ollie. You have to have seen this, you post here a lot.
 
I don't think one person believes there is a guarantee about anything. That's life. Things can turn around next year or never. Those are the extremes. KO can be a bad coach who the APR disguised or a good coach hurt by the APR. I'm one of those who argue the latter. I can't be 100% sure I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. I hear the complaints of people after games. I understand their concerns. I just put in my computer parameters that are different than yours. Or maybe similar parameters but come to different conclusions. None of us can see the future so it really comes down to educated guessing.
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And that's completely fair.

My concerns are - again - the overall trajectory of this program hasn't been good and it's been worse. We lose to teams in games that - 10 years ago I didn't even *watch* on TV because they were such walk-overs there wasn't much of a point. And that was every year - even years like 96-97 when we had another young and dumb team. But that young and dumb teams wasn't getting beaten by Northeastern or anyone close to that realm, for that matter. Even in more recent down years, that stuff doesn't happen. And now it's happening frequently. And I think it's all of it.

I mean there's a ton of talented players out there. But are they coachable? Are they dinks? What's their ceiling? I always felt like Callhoun was really got at not so much finding the best players, but most certainly the right players. I mean you could genuinely make an argument that Ollie is maybe a better recruiter than Callhoun even - and we don't have an eighth of those results. And sure- the sanctions were a huge deal. But they're only a huge deal to a point - look at these kids now compared to where they were at the beginning of the season. Look at the kids who've been here for years. I mean you can count the number of guys on one hand in the last three years who've taken a significant step forward year to year. They come in talented and they just stay..... kind of talented.

I mean i'm concerned about all of it tbh. It's a little of everything. It's injuries. It's probation. It's coaching. It's players. It's colloquialism (this team could use some outside perspective sitting on the bench - *badly*)... but I mean if we get to next year and this team's anywhere close to this bad you just have to make a change because this wave of players, this staff - it's a failure given the talent.
 
superjohn said:
That's what I was getting at, many posters here have said we can't possibly get anyone better than Ollie. You have to have seen this, you post here a lot.
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My impression from the majority of posters concerned about replacing KO is that getting someone with no loyalties to the program will result in them leaving after the first hint of success they have at UConn. There were rumors of KO leaving after his first and second years. He still may leave if the program turns around but it's even more likely with an outside coach. Then what happens to recruits and momentum?

That's a valid concern. Just as valid as your concern about keeping KO too long.

Never have I seen someone think UConn can't get a good coach without expressing this concern.
 
Towney007 said:
And that's completely fair.

My concerns are - again - the overall trajectory of this program hasn't been good and it's been worse. We lose to teams in games that - 10 years ago I didn't even *watch* on TV because they were such walk-overs there wasn't much of a point. And that was every year - even years like 96-97 when we had another young and dumb team. But that young and dumb teams wasn't getting beaten by Northeastern or anyone close to that realm, for that matter. Even in more recent down years, that stuff doesn't happen. And now it's happening frequently. And I think it's all of it.

I mean there's a ton of talented players out there. But are they coachable? Are they dinks? What's their ceiling? I always felt like Callhoun was really got at not so much finding the best players, but most certainly the right players. I mean you could genuinely make an argument that Ollie is maybe a better recruiter than Callhoun even - and we don't have an eighth of those results. And sure- the sanctions were a huge deal. But they're only a huge deal to a point - look at these kids now compared to where they were at the beginning of the season. Look at the kids who've been here for years. I mean you can count the number of guys on one hand in the last three years who've taken a significant step forward year to year. They come in talented and they just stay..... kind of talented.

I mean i'm concerned about all of it tbh. It's a little of everything. It's injuries. It's probation. It's coaching. It's players. It's colloquialism (this team could use some outside perspective sitting on the bench - *badly*)... but I mean if we get to next year and this team's anywhere close to this bad you just have to make a change because this wave of players, this staff - it's a failure given the talent.
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And your concerns are valid and fair. My hope going into this season was that KO would finally start to show us what he could do as he starts to get a full complement of players who were no longer part of the APR sanctions. I was excited about next years class because it was going to finally give KO a team with decent players at every position. Between the injuries and cutting Zach Brown the next two seasons, the ones that I thought would show me if KO was or was not a one hit wonder have to start on a footnote for me. It's not that I'm against moving on with a different coach if the situation arises. It's just difficult for me to determine everything about KO based on all the circumstance he inherited when he was made head coach plus these new circumstances. None of you have to agree with me. You can say I'm making excuses. I don't believe I am. It's just the way I chose to process things and that way happens to be different than the way you and others process things.
 
superjohn said:
That's what I was getting at, many posters here have said we can't possibly get anyone better than Ollie. You have to have seen this, you post here a lot.
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I think we should all be able to agree that KO deserves next year with a full roster to show what he can do. But, people on here seem to really have low expectations of this program and it's maddening.

P5 or not, we should be expecting to be at least a perennial top 25 program again, not accept losing to ECU, Nortgeastern etc.. All this we're damn lucky to have him stuff is preposterous. Even out of the AAC, paying $3 million per year we should still be able to attract an excellent coach who can put us back on the road to excellence. I hope KO is the guy, and we don't have to talk about replacing him for years to come but we should at least be justified in expecting well executed, intelligent, hard fought basketball night in and night out, and we're just not seeing that the past 3 seasons.
 
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JMick said:
It's like people forget we're supposed to be an elite program. Our bench should be able to run ECU out of the gym.
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Bench?
 
fleudslipcon said:
And your concerns are valid and fair. My hope going into this season was that KO would finally start to show us what he could do as he starts to get a full complement of players who were no longer part of the APR sanctions. I was excited about next years class because it was going to finally give KO a team with decent players at every position. Between the injuries and cutting Zach Brown the next two seasons, the ones that I thought would show me if KO was or was not a one hit wonder have to start on a footnote for me. It's not that I'm against moving on with a different coach if the situation arises. It's just difficult for me to determine everything about KO based on all the circumstance he inherited when he was made head coach plus these new circumstances. None of you have to agree with me. You can say I'm making excuses. I don't believe I am. It's just the way I chose to process things and that way happens to be different than the way you and others process things.
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That's a fair post.
 
GetTheFacts said:
When the only player on your team that can create his own shot with any level of regularity is playing at 60% health-wise, you are susceptible to an upset.
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Please. The defense cost them this game.
 
Hate to be that guy, but gotta bring things back down to earth.

When has Uconn (or any college team for that matter) faced the level of injuries and adversity we have his year. Counting Jalen tonight, or TOP THREE OFFENSIVE WEAPONS were out with injuries. I understand this is extrapolating a bit, but this is like if you took Kentucky, asked Malik Monk and Bam to sit the rest of the season, and then have either Fox or Briscoe play with a bum ankle...no so hot a team anymore huh?

This entire team tonight, minus an injured Jalen, is filled with role players. Granted Vance should expand his game and take on a bigger role in the years to come, but at this point in all of their careers, it was all role players + an injured Jalen....what do you expect???
 
Look, I get as upset with incomprehensible losses as the next guy. But I also understand that this team is limited in so many ways it's scary.

We've got exactly one guy on the team who can beat his man off the dribble, and he was half strength today . We've got a senior center with bad hands and no offensive moves, we've got a power forward who seems finally to be closer to the guy we thought he'd be as a sophomore, as a senior. We've got a 5th year transfer senior who is a great athlete and plays hard, but has small hands, is an erratic shooter, and can't seem to reliably finish around the basket. We've got a freshman small forward who is hesitant to shoot, and takes a long time to get it off, though he's allegedly a shooter. We've got a lanky power forward freshman coming off two ACL repairs. We've got a very young sophomore center with slow feet and reflexes, who does at least have a nice shooting touch. We've got an over-achieving freshman guard who was out today, leaving us with only two guards, the injured guy and the erratic 5th year, also injured.

And we've got three injured guys out for the season, two of whom were supposed to be major contributors. I can't think of any coaches that could win a road game, on senior night, particularly when one of the seniors starts imitating Steph Curry, given those handicaps.

That said, recruiting isn't all about rankings and physical stats. It's about having athletes with potential, speed, shooting, and hoop smarts. i want to see creativity, speed and guys who can read the floor and find the gaps, and the open man.
 
When has Uconn (or any college team for that matter) faced the level of injuries and adversity we have his year. Counting Jalen tonight, or TOP THREE OFFENSIVE WEAPONS were out with injuries. I understand this is extrapolating a bit, but this is like if you took Kentucky, asked Malik Monk and Bam to sit the rest of the season, and then have either Fox or Briscoe play with a bum ankle...no so hot a team anymore huh?
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They lost to Wagner and Northeastern... and barely beat BU... with a full, healthy roster.
 
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Towney007 said:
This team has lost to Northeastern, Wagner and East Carolina in the same year. They barely beat BU. I get it, injuries and other stuff.


But if we're not up against the line right now, then what's that look like, exactly?
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LMU was a fun one too
 
InKembaITrust said:
Hate to be that guy, but gotta bring things back down to earth.

When has Uconn (or any college team for that matter) faced the level of injuries and adversity we have his year. Counting Jalen tonight, or TOP THREE OFFENSIVE WEAPONS were out with injuries. I understand this is extrapolating a bit, but this is like if you took Kentucky, asked Malik Monk and Bam to sit the rest of the season, and then have either Fox or Briscoe play with a bum ankle...no so hot a team anymore huh?

This entire team tonight, minus an injured Jalen, is filled with role players. Granted Vance should expand his game and take on a bigger role in the years to come, but at this point in all of their careers, it was all role players + an injured Jalen....what do you expect???
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What was the excuse against Wagner or North Eastern? We had a full complement of players in those distasters.
 
Its amazing to me how the guy can be really good at identifying defensive schemes for opponents but is always the last guy in the building to realize that a game is getting away from his team and he needs to call a timeout.

Its really amazing.
 
When we lose to a hot shooting mid-major in November next year please don't tell me the team hasn't had the chance to gel.
 
Towney007 said:
"Losing to Yale has got to be rock bottom for this program." - someone on here, probably (2015)

Those were the days, guys. Those were the days.
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I still think it was actually... We lost at home to Yale. That trumps losing to Northeastern, Wagner, or on the road at ECU.
 
UCfor3 said:
The coaching has left a lot to be desired, but if you think that is the only reason we stink then you do not know what you are talking about. All our best players are either out injured or playing injured. We have zero depth. Guys are playing 40 minutes a game and have to be exhausted. Coaching is a problem but not the only one.
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Well, we did lose the first 2 games when 1) everyone was healthy 2) we were at home and 3) we were playing 2 mid-major teams (the kind of "cupcakes" you line up to get a couple quick wins and for your team to get game action before the "real" season begins).

If AG and TL come back healthy next year and we don't come out winning, KO's fanny will be on the hot seat, no question.
 
.-.
yukonyc212 said:
What was the excuse against Wagner or North Eastern? We had a full complement of players in those distasters.
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I'd have to call lack of chemistry and familiarity with each other...these excuses can only go so far haha, but that is how I feel about it. Early in the season against 2 experienced teams with a little bit of parody, I don't blame them. Was at both of those games and the team did not look like they were gelling at all, wouldn't blame coaching in those 2.
 
boog204 said:
I still think it was actually... We lost at home to Yale. That trumps losing to Northeastern, Wagner, or on the road at ECU.
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Yale was decent last year... won the ivy and made the tournament and made it to the second round. Losing to Wagner rpi 235 and ECU rpi 227.. far worse.
 
Huskybass said:
No, but to pretend that its ok to have 3 bad years in a row IS settling. I have seen nothing from KO over the last three seasons that gives me any cause for optimism. The guy is simply in over his head in lots of ways.
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I don't believe anyone thinks it's ok to have 3 bad years in a row. There's just some of us who believe those bad seasons are primarily or exclusively the result of KO and some of us that believe things outside KO's control have impacted the ability of KO to implement things that could get the results we all want. No one is settling. No one is making excuses. And I'll ask for y'all's forgiveness because no one is acting hysterically. We all want the same thing - to get back to the glory days. What we are doing is factoring things differently and based on that difference suggesting different solutions.
 
fleudslipcon said:
What we are doing is factoring things differently and based on that difference suggesting different solutions.
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Some people eagerly declare that the glory days are firmly in the past and that it's unrealistic to strive for that level.

I thought that population was limited predominantly to Syracuse fans and ESPN employees (often one in the same), but there's a disturbingly large element among our own supposed fans.
 
InKembaITrust said:
I'd have to call lack of chemistry and familiarity with each other...these excuses can only go so far haha, but that is how I feel about it. Early in the season against 2 experienced teams with a little bit of parody, I don't blame them. Was at both of those games and the team did not look like they were gelling at all, wouldn't blame coaching in those 2.
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I think that's when you specifically blame the coaching! Part of his job is getting these guys to gel. Don't forget, these guys are playing pickup games well before official practice starts. Larrier practiced with the team last year. And by sheer talent alone we should have been able to survive both of those games. Not sure if you remember them, but as I recall we pretty much got handled by 2 mid-major teams. Not blown out, but handled. That should not happen to UConn. Ever. Sorry, no excuse for not having gel'd before the start of the season.
 
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