Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question) | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question)

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cbraarj said:
Holly Warlick has been in the same system for 30 plus years under a legend.She was very good player and she may of a trusted and loyal asst.but imo Pat ran the team as she saw fit and controlled every aspect of her team but also the program.If she was still there would those players be acting like that.Hell no!Would a parent be getting away with what he did,Hell no.Holly running the same stuff as Pat just means it wont change with her.Time for a change!Nikki McCray as the head coach and Tamicka Catchings as the Ass.Head Coach would help tremendously.I for one would rather see Tenn.stay as one of the best teams in the country.As someone involved with the game for 40 years and a Huskie fan for 29 years.I consider myself a fan of college basketball men and women.These 2 teams were rated the 2nd best rivalry in college basketball.Only surpassed by Duke vs North Carolina according to ESPN.That is what college basketball should be about!
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Catchings would be an interesting choice as a head coach. I have no idea if she'd be any good but she's had a great career.
 
bags27 said:
the unlikelihood of a top coach being recruited as a possible near-term replacement
this is the difference between the women's and men's game. In the latter, most coaches would jump at the chance to rebuild a previously great program, whatever the foundational problems.
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The shallow pool of talent that you're recruiting from in WCBB is a primary cause of this. The reason very few coaches in the WCBB world would actively seek out massive rebuilds is because of recruiting... There's so little elite talent in a typical class and the majority of that ends up at 10 or so schools... simply put, a lot of coaches don't have the energy or patience to recruit at the required level to build a school back to prominence, even more so when the talent is slim pickings..
 
ericsandiego said:
And yet Creme continues with his delusion that they are a 7 seed. I can't believe the NCAA committee would come close to considering that. The sad thing is that USF, ranked #21, is an 8 seed per Creme...
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Ah, come on, Charlie is an SEC sycophant and now his ESPN is officially up there( a bone to Kib) butt! 'Course, he may be what he is because he knows the Committee is also mostly made up of the SEC hemorrhoid club members. How many years have we seen the SEC over load the tourney ranks and promptly fall on their keisters???
 
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RockyMTblue2 said:
Highlights the silliness of pre-season polls plus a couple, 3 late season victories involving heroics for unlikely heroines after their #1 went down the prior year seemed to blind the prognosticators to the imperfections of the Vols.
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More than that (the silliness you referenced) is the unfairness of the system in that it took Tennessee FOREVER to drop from the top 25 even though they had 10 losses (and were still ranked). Finally they are outside of even the "also getting votes" category and are basically outside the top 40 per the pollsters.
 
SCGamecock said:
The shallow pool of talent that you're recruiting from in WCBB is a primary cause of this. The reason very few coaches in the WCBB world would actively seek out massive rebuilds is because of recruiting... There's so little elite talent in a typical class and the majority of that ends up at 10 or so schools... simply put, a lot of coaches don't have the energy or patience to recruit at the required level to build a school back to prominence, even more so when the talent is slim pickings..
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Fair enough, but a coach like McGuff or even Jeff Walz are examples of guys who took over programs that were pretty far outside any kind of rankings, but built them up to something special. Dawn Staley is another great example. As is Karen Aston at Texas and I'm sure there are others who would fall into that category... maybe you could add in the coach at UCLA now and maybe even Mitchell at Kentucky - I think they were pretty bad before he got there...
 
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SCGamecock said:
The shallow pool of talent that you're recruiting from in WCBB is a primary cause of this. The reason very few coaches in the WCBB world would actively seek out massive rebuilds is because of recruiting... There's so little elite talent in a typical class and the majority of that ends up at 10 or so schools... simply put, a lot of coaches don't have the energy or patience to recruit at the required level to build a school back to prominence, even more so when the talent is slim pickings..
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If you build it they will come! If you have a vision and can communicate it they will follow. If you are a good coach word will get out.
Look at the top 25 and there are a lot of teams building good things and ones that have built good things relatively quickly. SC, OSU, UL just to name a few. There are enough good players in HS to go around to a lot of schools and make bad programs respectable and then take respectable programs further.
 
arty155 said:
-Cbraarj, it appears the “What came first?” assumption here may be a little backwards.
-He does not instill discipline because UConn always wins by 40.
-UConn wins by 40 because he always instills discipline.
View attachment 12102
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My point was he would have played them against a top team.No matter how those 2 were playing because he had no bench.Would he have pulled them after 5,10 or 15 minutes against South Carolina if they were still playing that way.I dont think so!
 
UcMiami said:
If you build it they will come! If you have a vision and can communicate it they will follow. If you are a good coach word will get out.
Look at the top 25 and there are a lot of teams building good things and ones that have built good things relatively quickly. SC, OSU, UL just to name a few. There are enough good players in HS to go around to a lot of schools and make bad programs respectable and then take respectable programs further.
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My point being I think that a really good coach can do amazing things with pretty minimal talent - there are more good coaches than their used to be so perhaps it is a little harder, but Jeff took a team with little 'ranked' HS talent to the FF twice, Dawn built something interesting enough (having her one highly ranked recruit transfer out after her freshman year) to start attracting other really highly ranked players, Princeton made some serious noise last year with little or no top 100 players. It took only a couple of years for TX to recover from the disaster that was GG (and I'm not sold on the coach, yet, but the school and the region are great for athletics.)
There is enough talent around to compete quickly for conference championships - to challenge in the AAC?, not the last few years, but do any of the P5 conference champions look that formidable - ND, SC, and Baylor are very good but they are not goliaths - Maryland is a two time FF team but unlikely to win the B10 this year, and who knows who the best team in the Pac10 really is.
 
UcMiami said:
My point being I think that a really good coach can do amazing things with pretty minimal talent - there are more good coaches than their used to be so perhaps it is a little harder, but Jeff took a team with little 'ranked' HS talent to the FF twice, Dawn built something interesting enough (having her one highly ranked recruit transfer out after her freshman year) to start attracting other really highly ranked players, Princeton made some serious noise last year with little or no top 100 players. It took only a couple of years for TX to recover from the disaster that was GG (and I'm not sold on the coach, yet, but the school and the region are great for athletics.)
There is enough talent around to compete quickly for conference championships - to challenge in the AAC?, not the last few years, but do any of the P5 conference champions look that formidable - ND, SC, and Baylor are very good but they are not goliaths - Maryland is a two time FF team but unlikely to win the B10 this year, and who knows who the best team in the Pac10 really is.
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The only people that do not believe ND, SC, Baylor & MD to be "formidable Goliaths" is UCONN and its fans. ND has lost 1 game in the ACC & has 5 losses in 3 years-4 to UCONN. As good a season as Princeton was regular season last year I don't see a team outside of the P5 (besides UCONN) contending for a national championships and I disagree that there is enough talent. I believe the women's talent to be extremely top heavy and contains far two few kids (< 5/Year) that are difference makers in winning even a P5 conference championship.
 
CocoHusky said:
In those 30 years Pat has had 20 former players, assistant coaches, and a son who learned enough from her to become WCBB head coaches and win:
1) Coach of the year in three different major conferences ( PAC-10- Caldwell, ACC-Hatchel, SEC-Mitchell)
2) National Coach of the year (Hatchel twice)
3) National Champions (Hatchel & Peck)
It could be a simple as Holly just doesn't have what it takes & that is not Pat's fault.
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As an early adopter in women's basketball, Pat got a jump on the opposition. She was a hard worker and that drive enabled her to become a legend. As often happens, legends become embellished as time goes on. Your examples of her developmental ability are a good example of this phenomenon.

You mention Tyler as an example. He may be a competent young man, but do you really think it was his ability that got him his coaching jobs? I'd opine that it was Pat's influence that opened the door for Tyler. How many other coaching hopefuls of Tyler's age are able to land jobs as did he? Besides, his record at Louisiana Tech is hardly earth shattering, not even as good as the The Lady Vols this year.

Regarding Caldwell whose record this year at LSU is 9-18. Enough said.

Attributing Hatchell's success to Pat is ludicrous. She had her own skills and perhaps didn't like what she saw at Tenn since she didn't stay long as Junior Varsity coach before moving on to coach at another school.

Regarding Mitchell, is it not possible that he developed his skills as assistant coach at Florida and Kentucky?

As to Holly's performance not being Pat's fault - Pat recommended Holly for the job. Who else should shoulder the blame? Perhaps if Pat used her vast influence to search for a true coaching talent, Tennessee wouldn't be in the mess they are now struggling with.
 
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Bestiarius said:
Regarding Mitchell, is it not possible that he developed his skills as assistant coach at Florida and Kentucky?
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Yes. But I don't hear Mitchell referring to any mentors at those schools like he does Pat here:

"While Mitchell is excited about the upcoming basketball season — and the recent birth of his daughter — he also said he was deeply saddened to hear the news about his mentor and University of Tennessee women’s basketball coach Pat Summitt, who announced this week she was suffering from early-onset dementia"

http://www.kyforward.com/as-uk-retu...ell-looks-forward-to-upcoming-hoops-season-2/
 
CocoHusky said:
There is never enough to say about Nikki -but hate on if you must!

"Meanwhile, she (Nikki) was soaking up all of the knowledge Summitt was spitting out, even helping the Lady Vols win two more national titles. It didn't take long for Caldwell to earn the moniker "Little Pat."

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/10/lsu_lady_tigers_new_coach_cald.html
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Not sure how you can conclude I hate Nikki from what I said. One thing I'm quite sure of is that we can both cherry pick "facts" on this topic ad nauseam. So much info available to support any opinion.
 
Coco - nice research. But a word of caution, calling someone a 'mentor' is as often as not an 'honorific' title meant to convey respect. Seldom does it equate to 'teacher', more often to a professional advisor. I suspect Coale at Oklahoma would classify Geno as a 'mentor' though she has never worked as his assistant or with him beyond their stint on the coaching committees, but he is available to give her professional advice (not actually system or strictly coaching advice) and has done so on numerous occasions.
Looking strictly at coaching style, I do not see a lot of Pat in Hatchell's (defense, we don't need no stinking defense!) or in Mitchell's (chaos theory and run!) coaching styles. I suspect Nikki's and Tyler's apple may have dropped closer to the tree though I haven't seen much of their teams.
 
Bestiarius said:
Not sure how you can conclude I hate Nikki from what I said. One thing I'm quite sure of is that we can both cherry pick "facts" on this topic ad nauseam. So much info available to support any opinion.
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There is never enough said about Nikki. Anyone who thinks that there is enough said about Nikki is hating, I concluded.
 
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UcMiami said:
Coco - nice research. But a word of caution, calling someone a 'mentor' is as often as not an 'honorific' title meant to convey respect. Seldom does it equate to 'teacher', more often to a professional advisor. I suspect Coale at Oklahoma would classify Geno as a 'mentor' though she has never worked as his assistant or with him beyond their stint on the coaching committees, but he is available to give her professional advice (not actually system or strictly coaching advice) and has done so on numerous occasions.
Looking strictly at coaching style, I do not see a lot of Pat in Hatchell's (defense, we don't need no stinking defense!) or in Mitchell's (chaos theory and run!) coaching styles. I suspect Nikki's and Tyler's apple may have dropped closer to the tree though I haven't seen much of their teams.
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It was not my intention to defend Pat's coaching tree until it was so misguidedly attacked. Despite the depth or full meaning of the use of the word "mentor" I do not hear these specific coaches calling anyone besides Pat a mentor. The point of my original post was to state that Pat's coaching tree had many branches. Some branches were good, other were not. Holly might have been a bad branch. The attacker of the tree (Bestiarius) would have you believe there were NO GOOD BRANCHES IN PAT's tree- I'm not buying that!
 
And back to the question raised initially in this thread - are Lady Vol fans over-reacting?

I don't know if they are over-reacting but they are most certainly reacting in ways that I find astonishing.

To wit, a new post on VolNation that appeared today encourages Tennessee to replace Holly with someone with UConn pedigree. The OP suggests Dailey and most of thread is whether Chris would leave UConn, her age, etc. One of the posters is hoping they'll make an offer to Shea.

None of responses were particularly negative to the idea nor generally negative about UConn.
 
The answer to the question, "Are Tennessee fans overreacting?" is always yes. They have historically overreacted to everything. Ever since Candace Parker left, every time they were upset — and even with Pat Summitt as the head coach — there was a massive gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands and even calls for Pat to step down. This was especially true the year they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Ball State, but there were always rumblings of "Pat is a has-been" every time they suffered an unexpected loss. They are one of the most spoiled, petulant, impatient fan bases I have ever seen. To them, after winning 8 national championships and playing in umpteen Final Fours, it was a colossal failure every time they fell short of the Final Four. And it's not just limited to WCBB. I'm telling you, there's something wrong with the negativity of the fan base there. The environment is poisonous and the naysayers dominate the airspace. No wonder Cuonzo Martin got the hell out of there — immediately after leading them to the Sweet 16, no less — after enduring three years of a pitchfork-and-torch mentality and the constant chants for his firing.
 
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CL82 said:
Catchings would be an interesting choice as a head coach. I have no idea if she'd be any good but she's had a great career.
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Tamika Catchings has gone on record saying she's not interested in coaching.
 
Plebe said:
The answer to the question, "Are Tennessee fans overreacting?" is always yes. They have historically overreacted to everything. Ever since Candace Parker left, every time they were upset — and even with Pat Summitt as the head coach — there was a massive gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands and even calls for Pat to step down. This was especially true the year they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Ball State, but there were always rumblings of "Pat is a has-been" every time they suffered an unexpected loss. They are one of the most spoiled, petulant, impatient fan bases I have ever seen. To them, after winning 8 national championships and playing in umpteen Final Fours, it was a colossal failure every time they fell short of the Final Four. And it's not just limited to WCBB. I'm telling you, there's something wrong with the negativity of the fan base there. The environment is poisonous and the naysayers dominate the airspace. No wonder Cuonzo Martin got the hell out of there — immediately after leading them to the Sweet 16, no less — after enduring three years of a pitchfork-and-torch mentality and the constant chants for his firing.
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True enough, but I don't recall any of them ever writing that they were ................... doomed! :rolleyes:
 
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