Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question)

[Bigpetunia]

When Holly was promoted (not hired) to the position of LadyVols head coach, I posted that she now had the worst job in wcbb.

Why? Because she was not only succeeding a revered legend -- a tough enough challenge -- but in this instance the legend (Saint Pat Summitt) was to remain visible (officially!) to adoring fans with full authority to hover over practices and games and participate in recruiting activities.

This situation rapidly morphed from tenuous to impossible, compounded by heavy-handed decisions by new AD Hart (punctuated by damaging lawsuits) and mounting evidence of Holly's inadequacies as The Head Coach.

In retrospect, issues with four players stand out as hastening the weakness of Holly's control over the team.

First, she inherited an uncontrollable talent (Simmons) who once represented a recruiting triumph for Pat but became highly visible evidence that Holly could not control a rambunctious player.

Next, amid much hoopla, she secured three players who seemed destined to lead the LadyVols back to The Promised Land: Russell, Cooper, and DeShields. We all now know how that has been working out.​

Finally, worse came to worst. A complete whiff on '16 recruits, exacerbated by damaging hints (Harper) about the program's status and the publicly dashed hopes of landing quality recruits like McCoy and Cox.

Holly seems secure for a few more years @ $600,00+ and no reputable coach would consider wading into that cessool for less than $1M+/5 years.

The LadyVols situation has now become beyond pathetic -- a total tragedy.

R.I.P.

Excellent analysis, as usual. Like you, I apply the "tragedy" label to this situation, partly because the end result diminishes WCBB (even though some other programs, like SC, have since emerged as contenders), but even more because the slide at UT serves as a potential looming object lesson for the rest of us...especially those of us who have been spoiled by the presence of a legendary coach.

Also like you, irrespective of all the calls for her head, I don't think Holly is going anywhere anytime soon. If that assumption proves correct, and with the added complications posed by the awful publicity generated by the current litigation activity against the university, I think that those who suggest that the recruitment whiff we've just witnessed might just be a one-year anomaly are almost certainly mistaken. Just as you point out the unlikelihood of a top coach being recruited as a possible near-term replacement, the national recruitment picture even beyond 2016 has to be characterized as pretty grim. I love historic epic rivalries in sports. This one appears forever dead...sad.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have a question. Why UTenn has not recruited any player in 2016?
Is it because no one wants to come to UTenn or no scholarship available?

Definitely NOT scholarship availability.

 

[cabbie191]

BUT... look at all the close games. The games Tennessee lost to Kentucky, Missisisppi State, and SC were all by just a couple points, and the loss to aTm was only by 5 points. My point is that they were right in those games. I do not disagree that they need to change up the offense, but why aren't people saying the same thing especially about Kentucky and SC and aTm - teams who ONLY beat Tennessee by 1, 6, and 5 points .

I agree with your points - well written post. But specific to close games, we should also recognize that some of their victories against teams they were expected to clobber were also cliffhangers.

 

[bags27]

the unlikelihood of a top coach being recruited as a possible near-term replacement
this is the difference between the women's and men's game. In the latter, most coaches would jump at the chance to rebuild a previously great program, whatever the foundational problems.

 

[phoebedoh]

I recognize, and completely understand, why many within the Tn fan base are both upset and disappointed by the team and CHW, but is the sky really falling? The team is loaded with talent. With another year together under their belts, I would think tn (on paper) would be a contender next year (I know, they should have been one this year). Now the fans are speculating that players may transfer. Is CHW the problem or is it chemistry? The silly end of game decisions....is that on the coach or the players. I see, what appears to me, to be a bit of an attitude issue with certain of their players (one in particular). But what does it stem from? Where do folks here think the problems lie?

I think they expect too much! Holly is not Pat Summitt

 

[phoebedoh]

Everything being said is very true. The bottom line is that Pat Summitt is no longer the coach and, let's face it, it will be an almost IMPOSSIBLE job for anyone filling those shoes. They can not be filled. The Vol fans are being unreasonable in their expectations! And...., not very nice. All this screaming and complaining will accomplish very little!

 

[Orangutan]

Some of you may have seen this on the Big Monday's telecast, but I thought I'd post here as well.

Chiney Ogwumike's take on Tennessee:

 

[EricLA]

I agree with your points - well written post. But specific to close games, we should also recognize that some of their victories against teams they were expected to clobber were also cliffhangers.

Yep - you are absolutely right. And several of their close wins were over teams who were average at best. But overall my point is that even most of the upper teams in the SEC aren't lighting it up, and certainly not against Tennessee. Side note - I feel dirty for defending them, but really I just want Holly to stick around forever...

 

[Kibitzer]

I have a question. Why UTenn has not recruited any player in 2016?
Is it because no one wants to come to UTenn or no scholarship available?

For an abstract answer to your question, I invite your attention to an old adage:

"Word gets around."​

In any field of endeavor, "word" about the inner workings of an entity (school, store, auto model, sports franchise, corporation, etc.) gets around through a magical grapevine. A very common example is the arcane method applied by students when identifying "best" courses or instructors. HS hotshots don't need to read the NY Times or The Summitt to be aware of the turbulence in U.Tenn. -- it's all available on their cell phone through the network of pals being recruited (and pals of their pals). So you can be sure that Jade and Christyn and Megan and Charli know all about each other's recruitment -- and the experiences of Lauren and Tori and others as well. "Word does indeed get around."

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Funny or sad thing is that I still tape and then watch Tennessee games when they lose. That rivalry will stay with me for the rest of my life.

 

[Waquoit]

I think they expect too much! Holly is not Pat Summitt

Competence is not too much to expect. She had a fair shot. They should hire Jen Rizzoti.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Not reading minds but IMO the majority of BONEYARDERS believe Holly Warlick is a lousy coach!
The posts that said we hope Holly gets a long/lifetime contract are praying she'll stay so TN will stink forever!
The coaching staff is coaching back in the 1970's & 1980's style of hoops.
How could HW have coached with the legend, Pat Summitt for 30+ years and learned nothing?
They have 7 HS AA's they should be kicking serious butt, instead they play and behave like 8th graders.
After all the nastiness & pettiness the VolNation has spewed out at UCONN and other schools they've felt superior to, payback is truly a bitch! IMO most of the WCBB nation are secretly enjoying this run of ineptness by the Lady Vols!
For me TN can't lose enough to make up for all the attacks on UCONN, Geno, M. Moore, & M. Moore's Mom, etc.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Yep - you are absolutely right. And several of their close wins were over teams who were average at best. But overall my point is that even most of the upper teams in the SEC aren't lighting it up, and certainly not against Tennessee. Side note - I feel dirty for defending them, but really I just want Holly to stick around forever...

In this you are transparent eric.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Competence is not too much to expect. She had a fair shot. They should hire Jen Rizzoti.

Before every home game they could put Jen's steal and driving layup on the Jumbotron!

 

[UcMiami]

I am one of the UT fans on the board who entered this season with anticipation this would be the squad to get back to the Final Four, although I had some concerns about the loses of Burdick, Harrison and Massengale. The no recruits for 2016 issue speaks volumes to me more than the win/loss record. No school wins them all and it can be tough with other programs getting in the national spotlight. However, he fact the squad has no recruits coming in for next season and there being a 9 player roster at this time for 2016-17 should be enough to raise eyebrows in the athletic department.

There has been a bit of overreaction from some fans which is largely grounded in disappointment and frustration. The high hopes of this season were almost gone 7 or so games in the schedule given how poorly the team played. On paper this squad looks good, but the product on the floor has left much to be desired. I choose to the take the high road and note that while this team has drastically underperformed, they honestly haven't been blown out by anyone with the exception of ND. Their loses have typically come down to a few missed plays or shots here and there. Fans of this board are very quick to point out the shortcomings on offense of SEC teams, but that's is irrelevant to me when it comes to winning games.

The game has changed and UT didn't do a good job of evolving. If Warlick can humble herself to change her style and adjust the system to reflect the talents of the players on the roster, next season could be much better. She should honestly get one more shot, but only with a commitment to reconstruct the offense and recruiting methods. Maybe an assistant or two should be replaced, maybe a player needs to transfer, maybe she needs more support from the AD. I don't know if there is one answer, but the fans' patience is thin and hopefully Holly or Hart is listening.

A measured response - and it can't be easy for you coming on this board and reading the TN threads with our animosity on full display.
Specific to coaching - I think Holly is there for at least another year and maybe more, but if she is to turn this around I think she has to clean house with her assistants and find some young bright students of the game to work with her and teach her and the team how to play basketball. I honestly believe Pat knew she was being passed by for a number of years and was trying to change. Her force of will kept the team respectable even as the talent became more dispersed and the new coaches change the game. Holly? She doesn't have Pat's will, and I honestly don't think she has a very good basketball IQ nor very good personal skills, and I see no signs that she is a good 'teacher'. She is a classic worker bee type personality - point her in the right direction and tell her what to do and she will bust her ___ trying to accomplish it - ask her to come up with a creative plan to accomplish some goal and she will be lost. I suspect she has a notebook of how the first month of practice was run each year under Pat, and she does the exact same practice Pat ran on the exact same day - if this is the 10th day we work on high pick and rolls, and so they work on high pick and rolls. But Pat actual understood what she was seeing in practice and how to correct things - and I see no sign that Holly actually understands what she is seeing. The parts of games I have watched certainly suggest she doesn't understand what is happening on the floor - if player 'x' is supposed to be substituted out at the first stoppage after 4 minutes, then they are substituted out even if they have caught fire and nailed three threes in the last 2 minutes. And that goes beyond systems and coaching style to the heart of what a head coach needs to be.
Probably the greatest strength of both Geno and CD is their ability to see and understand what they are seeing down to the finest detail. They know when something is wrong long before it actually shows in results, and they then get in there and fix it. They understand what a good shot is and a good pass and it doesn't have anything to do with the ball going into the basket or the teammate catching it. It is why playing lots of easy games against AAC opponents doesn't hurt the team preparation, because they are never seduced by the score into thinking things are OK if they aren't.

 

[bags27]

She is a classic worker bee type personality

I was struck in the presser how she kept saying that they did indeed foul with 4 seconds left--85 feet from their own basket--rather than shifting the conversation or denying the call. She's docile where Pat was pugnacious. This train wreck hasn't come to a halt yet. If it were the men's game, she'd mercifully be relieved of duty. But it costs too much to fire her with too little return on subsequent investment.

 

[cabbie191]

A measured response - and it can't be easy for you coming on this board and reading the TN threads with our animosity on full display.
Specific to coaching - I think Holly is there for at least another year and maybe more, but if she is to turn this around I think she has to clean house with her assistants and find some young bright students of the game to work with her and teach her and the team how to play basketball. I honestly believe Pat knew she was being passed by for a number of years and was trying to change. Her force of will kept the team respectable even as the talent became more dispersed and the new coaches change the game. Holly? She doesn't have Pat's will, and I honestly don't think she has a very good basketball IQ nor very good personal skills, and I see no signs that she is a good 'teacher'. She is a classic worker bee type personality - point her in the right direction and tell her what to do and she will bust her ___ trying to accomplish it - ask her to come up with a creative plan to accomplish some goal and she will be lost. I suspect she has a notebook of how the first month of practice was run each year under Pat, and she does the exact same practice Pat ran on the exact same day - if this is the 10th day we work on high pick and rolls, and so they work on high pick and rolls. But Pat actual understood what she was seeing in practice and how to correct things - and I see no sign that Holly actually understands what she is seeing. The parts of games I have watched certainly suggest she doesn't understand what is happening on the floor - if player 'x' is supposed to be substituted out at the first stoppage after 4 minutes, then they are substituted out even if they have caught fire and nailed three threes in the last 2 minutes. And that goes beyond systems and coaching style to the heart of what a head coach needs to be.
Probably the greatest strength of both Geno and CD is their ability to see and understand what they are seeing down to minute detail. They know when something is wrong long before it actually shows in results, and they then get in there and fix it. They understand what a good shot is and a good pass and it doesn't have anything to do with the ball going into the basket or the teammate catching it. It is why playing lots of easy games against AAC opponents doesn't hurt the team preparation, because they are never seduced by the score into thinking things are OK if they aren't.

Just to expand on one your excellent remarks - GA and CD having the ability to see and understand. What really sets UConn apart in my opinion is the coaching staff's trust in letting the players (starters, that is) take responsibility for seeing , understanding AND REACTING to the game's ebb and flows? Much of what the players do is of their own creation. And that is the result of having players with high basketball IQ.

 

[cabbie191]

Funny or sad thing is that I still tape and then watch Tennessee games when they lose. That rivalry will stay with me for the rest of my life.

I find this very understandable. To me, it goes to the root of our love for our team. Kind of why 45 years out of high school, I still care how the old team does.

 

[UcMiami]

In next paragraph the author goes on to note that

Summitt made her team practice, even though the season was over.

Add to that "itself a violation of NCAA rules" and you get a different, and through my national flag colored glasses, more accurate view.

I am pretty sure the rule is that the basketball season ends the day of the NC game. TN could technically continue to practice for 14 or so days after being eliminated in the first round. I believe a few other coaches have used this over the years.
TN and Pat had their share of rules infractions and questionable practices as most programs have (the rule book is huge!) but that wasn't one of them.

 

[Carnac]

I recognize, and completely understand, why many within the Tn fan base are both upset and disappointed by the team and CHW, but is the sky really falling? The team is loaded with talent. With another year together under their belts, I would think tn (on paper) would be a contender next year (I know, they should have been one this year). Now the fans are speculating that players may transfer. Is CHW the problem or is it chemistry? The silly end of game decisions....is that on the coach or the players. I see, what appears to me, to be a bit of an attitude issue with certain of their players (one in particular). But what does it stem from? Where do folks here think the problems lie?

No!!. The failure of this year's addition of the Lady Volunteers is real, and unanticipated going in to the season.
Some highly optimistic fans predicted a final four birth for Holly and her squad. No one saw the calamity and the "failure to launch" that befell this team.

WCBB pundits and other "outside" observers suggested that given the talent that this team would put on the floor would eclipse the fan base's wildest dreams. Volunteer Nation entered the season ready to recapture their rightful place as one of the nation's premier programs.

Fast forward to today. After 565 consecutive weeks in The Associated Press poll, Tennessee doesn't make the Top 25. The streak started Feb. 17, 1985. The Lady Vols just lost to a second tier team in their conference. It was just the third league victory for LSU this season. Tennessee had a 56-55 lead with 5 seconds left with center Mercedes Russell at the line. She missed both foul shots, and then Carter inexplicably fouled LSU's Alexis Hyder, who got the rebound. Hyder made both her free throws, leaving Carter with only a desperation heave that didn't come close. Afterward, Tennessee coach Holly Warlick said, "I don't know why she fouled or what she was doing, but she fouled her."

Incidents like this one has plagued the Lady Vols all year. For years, one of the hallmarks for the Lady Vols. was the ability to finish off teams in the closing minutes of their games. Even in those times when they were trailing, they were known for their epic comebacks that seemed inevitable. It might seem unfair and unimportant at this point to bring up "ancient" history, but there is a broader picture to see here.

Past success can be a great motivator and building block, or it can be a yoke. Right now, the Lady Vols appear to be playing as if it's the latter. It would appear as if Volunteer Nation is at the breaking point. Remember the 1976 movie "Network"? Pete finch's character (Howard Beale) discovers that he's being put out to pasture, and he's none too happy about it. After threatening to shoot himself on live television, instead he launches into an angry 2 minute rant during a newscast. At the end of his rant, he implores the listeners to go to the window and yell that now famous classic line: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore".

 

[Waquoit]

I never looked at those post-dance practices as an example of PHS being a cheat, I saw it as PHS being a jerk.

 

[UcMiami]

Just to expand on one your excellent remarks - GA and CD having the ability to see and understand. What really sets UConn apart in my opinion is the coaching staff's trust in letting the players (starters, that is) take responsibility for seeing , understanding AND REACTING to the game's ebb and flows? Much of what the players do is of their own creation. And that is the result of having players with high basketball IQ.

Agree - but that gets into 'system' and 'style of coaching' and I wasn't going there!
I was breaking down to the more fundamental requirements of a good coach and could have added things like:
Never being satisfied with good enough.
Interpersonal skills
Ability to teach
Pushing players beyond their comfort zone

One of my all time favorite quotes about Geno came from one of his inherited players, the best on the team whose name escapes me. After a hard practice she went into his office and asked why he was riding her so hard, she had been practicing harder than anyone else on the floor. His answer was 'I know, but were you going as hard as you could?' The light went on for her at that moment, and she was onboard for the rest of her journey.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I expected Tennessee to be pretty good this year, and said before the season the degree of success would be determined by 2 things...... Mercedes' play and the health of her feet, and Diamond's relationship with her coach (will DD allow Holly to coach her?)......

I was surprised that Mercedes ...although her feet were 100% healed.... was not high energy.... no tenacity or urgency.... many turnovers occured trying to feed her in the post.... and weak hands..... she just has not been a dominant presence.... as one might expect for a #1 overall recruit.... As for Diamond.... she is flashy yes, but very ineffective.... leads the team by far in turnovers, and shooting percentage is poor.....

LVs are wishing they had the stability of the 3 seniors who graduated last year

 

[trb123]

The game has changed and UT didn't do a good job of evolving.

Evolution and Tennessee are not compatible.

1.
The Butler Act was a 1925 Tennessee law prohibiting public school teachers from denying the Biblical account of man's origin. It was enacted as Tennessee Code Annotated Title 49 (Education) Section 1922, having been signed into law by Tennessee governor Austin Peay. The law also prevented the teaching of the evolution of man from what it referred to as lower orders of animals in place of the Biblical account.

The law was challenged later that year in a famous trial in Dayton, Tennessee called the Scopes trial which included a raucous confrontation between prosecution attorney and fundamentalist religious leader, William Jennings Bryan, and noted defense attorney and religious agnostic, Clarence Darrow.
(Wikipedia)

2.

In 2012 as Pat Summitt's reign came to an end :

It’s back to the future for Tennessee, where a new law was just put on the books that could undermine the teaching of accepted scientific thought in areas including evolution ....
(Washington Post 11th April, 2012)

 

[CL82]

I am pretty sure the rule is that the basketball season ends the day of the NC game. TN could technically continue to practice for 14 or so days after being eliminated in the first round. I believe a few other coaches have used this over the years.
TN and Pat had their share of rules infractions and questionable practices as most programs have (the rule book is huge!) but that wasn't one of them.

Interesting. I always thought it was the day you were eliminated from competition.