Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question)

[CocoHusky]

My point being I think that a really good coach can do amazing things with pretty minimal talent - there are more good coaches than their used to be so perhaps it is a little harder, but Jeff took a team with little 'ranked' HS talent to the FF twice, Dawn built something interesting enough (having her one highly ranked recruit transfer out after her freshman year) to start attracting other really highly ranked players, Princeton made some serious noise last year with little or no top 100 players. It took only a couple of years for TX to recover from the disaster that was GG (and I'm not sold on the coach, yet, but the school and the region are great for athletics.)
There is enough talent around to compete quickly for conference championships - to challenge in the AAC?, not the last few years, but do any of the P5 conference champions look that formidable - ND, SC, and Baylor are very good but they are not goliaths - Maryland is a two time FF team but unlikely to win the B10 this year, and who knows who the best team in the Pac10 really is.

The only people that do not believe ND, SC, Baylor & MD to be "formidable Goliaths" is UCONN and its fans. ND has lost 1 game in the ACC & has 5 losses in 3 years-4 to UCONN. As good a season as Princeton was regular season last year I don't see a team outside of the P5 (besides UCONN) contending for a national championships and I disagree that there is enough talent. I believe the women's talent to be extremely top heavy and contains far two few kids (< 5/Year) that are difference makers in winning even a P5 conference championship.

 

[Bestiarius]

In those 30 years Pat has had 20 former players, assistant coaches, and a son who learned enough from her to become WCBB head coaches and win:
1) Coach of the year in three different major conferences ( PAC-10- Caldwell, ACC-Hatchel, SEC-Mitchell)
2) National Coach of the year (Hatchel twice)
3) National Champions (Hatchel & Peck)
It could be a simple as Holly just doesn't have what it takes & that is not Pat's fault.

As an early adopter in women's basketball, Pat got a jump on the opposition. She was a hard worker and that drive enabled her to become a legend. As often happens, legends become embellished as time goes on. Your examples of her developmental ability are a good example of this phenomenon.

You mention Tyler as an example. He may be a competent young man, but do you really think it was his ability that got him his coaching jobs? I'd opine that it was Pat's influence that opened the door for Tyler. How many other coaching hopefuls of Tyler's age are able to land jobs as did he? Besides, his record at Louisiana Tech is hardly earth shattering, not even as good as the The Lady Vols this year.

Regarding Caldwell whose record this year at LSU is 9-18. Enough said.

Attributing Hatchell's success to Pat is ludicrous. She had her own skills and perhaps didn't like what she saw at Tenn since she didn't stay long as Junior Varsity coach before moving on to coach at another school.

Regarding Mitchell, is it not possible that he developed his skills as assistant coach at Florida and Kentucky?

As to Holly's performance not being Pat's fault - Pat recommended Holly for the job. Who else should shoulder the blame? Perhaps if Pat used her vast influence to search for a true coaching talent, Tennessee wouldn't be in the mess they are now struggling with.

 

[CocoHusky]

Attributing Hatchell's success to Pat is ludicrous.

"Hatchell became just the third women's coach in history to reach 900 wins, joining legendary Texas coach Jody Conradt and her dear friend and mentor from the University of Tennessee, Pat Summitt."

http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers/tag/sylvia-hatchel

 

[CocoHusky]

Regarding Mitchell, is it not possible that he developed his skills as assistant coach at Florida and Kentucky?

Yes. But I don't hear Mitchell referring to any mentors at those schools like he does Pat here:

"While Mitchell is excited about the upcoming basketball season — and the recent birth of his daughter — he also said he was deeply saddened to hear the news about his mentor and University of Tennessee women’s basketball coach Pat Summitt, who announced this week she was suffering from early-onset dementia"

http://www.kyforward.com/as-uk-retu...ell-looks-forward-to-upcoming-hoops-season-2/

 

[CocoHusky]

Regarding Caldwell whose record this year at LSU is 9-18. Enough said.

There is never enough to say about Nikki -but hate on if you must!

"Meanwhile, she (Nikki) was soaking up all of the knowledge Summitt was spitting out, even helping the Lady Vols win two more national titles. It didn't take long for Caldwell to earn the moniker "Little Pat."

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/10/lsu_lady_tigers_new_coach_cald.html

 

[Bestiarius]

There is never enough to say about Nikki -but hate on if you must!

"Meanwhile, she (Nikki) was soaking up all of the knowledge Summitt was spitting out, even helping the Lady Vols win two more national titles. It didn't take long for Caldwell to earn the moniker "Little Pat."

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/10/lsu_lady_tigers_new_coach_cald.html

Not sure how you can conclude I hate Nikki from what I said. One thing I'm quite sure of is that we can both cherry pick "facts" on this topic ad nauseam. So much info available to support any opinion.

 

[UcMiami]

Coco - nice research. But a word of caution, calling someone a 'mentor' is as often as not an 'honorific' title meant to convey respect. Seldom does it equate to 'teacher', more often to a professional advisor. I suspect Coale at Oklahoma would classify Geno as a 'mentor' though she has never worked as his assistant or with him beyond their stint on the coaching committees, but he is available to give her professional advice (not actually system or strictly coaching advice) and has done so on numerous occasions.
Looking strictly at coaching style, I do not see a lot of Pat in Hatchell's (defense, we don't need no stinking defense!) or in Mitchell's (chaos theory and run!) coaching styles. I suspect Nikki's and Tyler's apple may have dropped closer to the tree though I haven't seen much of their teams.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not sure how you can conclude I hate Nikki from what I said. One thing I'm quite sure of is that we can both cherry pick "facts" on this topic ad nauseam. So much info available to support any opinion.

There is never enough said about Nikki. Anyone who thinks that there is enough said about Nikki is hating, I concluded.

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco - nice research. But a word of caution, calling someone a 'mentor' is as often as not an 'honorific' title meant to convey respect. Seldom does it equate to 'teacher', more often to a professional advisor. I suspect Coale at Oklahoma would classify Geno as a 'mentor' though she has never worked as his assistant or with him beyond their stint on the coaching committees, but he is available to give her professional advice (not actually system or strictly coaching advice) and has done so on numerous occasions.
Looking strictly at coaching style, I do not see a lot of Pat in Hatchell's (defense, we don't need no stinking defense!) or in Mitchell's (chaos theory and run!) coaching styles. I suspect Nikki's and Tyler's apple may have dropped closer to the tree though I haven't seen much of their teams.

It was not my intention to defend Pat's coaching tree until it was so misguidedly attacked. Despite the depth or full meaning of the use of the word "mentor" I do not hear these specific coaches calling anyone besides Pat a mentor. The point of my original post was to state that Pat's coaching tree had many branches. Some branches were good, other were not. Holly might have been a bad branch. The attacker of the tree (Bestiarius) would have you believe there were NO GOOD BRANCHES IN PAT's tree- I'm not buying that!

 

[cabbie191]

And back to the question raised initially in this thread - are Lady Vol fans over-reacting?

I don't know if they are over-reacting but they are most certainly reacting in ways that I find astonishing.

To wit, a new post on VolNation that appeared today encourages Tennessee to replace Holly with someone with UConn pedigree. The OP suggests Dailey and most of thread is whether Chris would leave UConn, her age, etc. One of the posters is hoping they'll make an offer to Shea.

None of responses were particularly negative to the idea nor generally negative about UConn.

 

[Plebe]

The answer to the question, "Are Tennessee fans overreacting?" is always yes. They have historically overreacted to everything. Ever since Candace Parker left, every time they were upset — and even with Pat Summitt as the head coach — there was a massive gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands and even calls for Pat to step down. This was especially true the year they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Ball State, but there were always rumblings of "Pat is a has-been" every time they suffered an unexpected loss. They are one of the most spoiled, petulant, impatient fan bases I have ever seen. To them, after winning 8 national championships and playing in umpteen Final Fours, it was a colossal failure every time they fell short of the Final Four. And it's not just limited to WCBB. I'm telling you, there's something wrong with the negativity of the fan base there. The environment is poisonous and the naysayers dominate the airspace. No wonder Cuonzo Martin got the hell out of there — immediately after leading them to the Sweet 16, no less — after enduring three years of a pitchfork-and-torch mentality and the constant chants for his firing.

 

[Plebe]

Catchings would be an interesting choice as a head coach. I have no idea if she'd be any good but she's had a great career.

Tamika Catchings has gone on record saying she's not interested in coaching.

 

[cabbie191]

The answer to the question, "Are Tennessee fans overreacting?" is always yes. They have historically overreacted to everything. Ever since Candace Parker left, every time they were upset — and even with Pat Summitt as the head coach — there was a massive gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands and even calls for Pat to step down. This was especially true the year they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Ball State, but there were always rumblings of "Pat is a has-been" every time they suffered an unexpected loss. They are one of the most spoiled, petulant, impatient fan bases I have ever seen. To them, after winning 8 national championships and playing in umpteen Final Fours, it was a colossal failure every time they fell short of the Final Four. And it's not just limited to WCBB. I'm telling you, there's something wrong with the negativity of the fan base there. The environment is poisonous and the naysayers dominate the airspace. No wonder Cuonzo Martin got the hell out of there — immediately after leading them to the Sweet 16, no less — after enduring three years of a pitchfork-and-torch mentality and the constant chants for his firing.

True enough, but I don't recall any of them ever writing that they were ................... doomed!

 

[CocoHusky]

Tamika Catchings has gone on record saying she's not interested in coaching.

Yes and Catch was pretty definitive about it also.
"
Catchings said of her outlook on 2017 and beyond. "I know what I don't want to do -- I don't want to coach. I love working with kids, but coaching doesn't really appeal to me.

http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/13314738/revered-all-star-tamika-catchings-preparing-life-hoops