Archie Miller out at Indiana | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Archie Miller out at Indiana

Jbirdp5 said:
Finding the big name isn’t as important as finding the right guy. Established doesn’t always mean being established at a big school in my opinion. Hurley was coming up a level in competition to us and I would argue we are a better job than indiana.
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I mean, Hurley is his own beast and I don't think it's a reasonable comparison to Miller, for instance.

1. He built 2 different programs up from a bottom and from weaker conferences (and he signed on when we were in the American)
2. He was in our backyard and familiar with the recruiting grounds, being from NJ and coaching in NY and RI
3. He comes from a storied basketball family.

Compare that to Archie, who played at NC State, coached as an Assistant at Arizona, and then took over Dayton. Dayton wasn't a rebuild at all. Before he showed up, they won:

2007: 19
2008: 23
2009: 27
2010: 25
2011: 22

In other words, he took over a successful program and kept it humming.

If Indiana had a guy who was up and coming and how turned around two programs in the area, then I think we're playing a different game.
 
If you can get three-four years out of Beilein, he would make IU into a major player again. The guy can coach any player up. Then you hand it off to an up and comer and hope it doesn't go to waste.
 
FlakeyFoont said:
Crean's Hoosiers began the 2016-17 season ranked No. 11 in the country, and at one point, got as high as third. Their final fate? First round loss in the NIT. How desperate was IU to give Crean the boot? How much did IU want to send him a farewell message? They announced his firing minutes after the 2017 NCAA tournament tipped off. His buyout was $4 million, but would have been only $1 million if they merely waited until July 1.
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I don’t feel bad for them is what I’m getting at, especially being around IU fans. He brought them from the doormat and that team had talent, but had new faces. They underachieved for sure, but it doesn’t change the fact he got shafted. From what I’ve heard, he burned a lot of bridges within the program, so I get it a little, but he was/is a better coach than Archie.
 
tzznandrew said:
I mean, Hurley is his own beast and I don't think it's a reasonable comparison to Miller, for instance.

1. He built 2 different programs up from a bottom and from weaker conferences (and he signed on when we were in the American)
2. He was in our backyard and familiar with the recruiting grounds, being from NJ and coaching in NY and RI
3. He comes from a storied basketball family.

Compare that to Archie, who played at NC State, coached as an Assistant at Arizona, and then took over Dayton. Dayton wasn't a rebuild at all. Before he showed up, they won:

2007: 19
2008: 23
2009: 27
2010: 25
2011: 22

In other words, he took over a successful program and kept it humming.

If Indiana had a guy who was up and coming and how turned around two programs in the area, then I think we're playing a different game.
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Not comparing Hurley to Miller comparing the search for a big name to finding the right guy. Finding a guy that can recruit the state and nearby areas is important as is an in game coach.
none of the things you said make it imperative to have a big name. You get the right person he becomes a big name just like beard Is now.
 
huskyfan224 said:
I don’t feel bad for them is what I’m getting at, especially being around IU fans. He brought them from the doormat and that team had talent, but had new faces. They underachieved for sure, but it doesn’t change the fact he got shafted. From what I’ve heard, he burned a lot of bridges within the program, so I get it a little, but he was/is a better coach than Archie.
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I've wondered if Crean was actually on Benedicts short list, it seems they put all eggs in Dan Hurley basket thankfully.
 
tzznandrew said:
If I were Indiana I wouldn't be screwing around with "up and coming coaches." You've got Big 10 money, you have a rabid fan base, you have excellent—though now distant—history, and you're far enough away from Bob Knight where a coach isn't in his shadow. If you're buying out a coach you hired because he was up and coming for $10 after a covid year you better go after established names.
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I kinda think that too. I don’t think Pitino. Moser could land here. I’d rate him much more that an up and comer. I could have seen the guy from Creighton before the Plsntstion incident. Maybe Lietao from sleeping giant DePaul.
 
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Jbirdp5 said:
Not comparing Hurley to Miller comparing the search for a big name to finding the right guy. Finding a guy that can recruit the state and nearby areas is important as is an in game coach.
none of the things you said make it imperative to have a big name. You get the right person he becomes a big name just like beard Is now.
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If you're Indiana and you've got B10 money, why are you farting around and trying to get the next Beard? Just get Beard, if you can.

UNC was in tough times, they had gone with Doherty from Notre Dame and seemed like an up and comer. And they stunk. So they said screw it and went after the best coach available they thought they could get.

Fit matters, of course, but a great coach can fit most anywhere.
 
Zissou said:
Yep, and when it doesn’t work, just honor the contract and pay it!
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When an internal review performed after his first year at IU uncovered that Kelvin Sampson violated the terms of his contract by making an illegal recruiting call, Indiana withheld paying him his 500k bonus (which was at that time 50% of his university comp). Several years later when Sampson was investigated by the NCAA for similar violations, IU bought out the remainder of his contract for 750k. Kelvin was due 2.5M in base not including unearned bonuses prior to the termination.
 
freescooter said:
I kinda think that too. I don’t think Pitino. Moser could land here. I’d rate him much more that an up and comer. I could have seen the guy from Creighton before the Plsntstion incident. Maybe Lietao from sleeping giant DePaul.
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@freescooter Why would IU consider hiring a guy who minimally underperformed to failed in his last 2 college head coaching opportunities?
 
tzznandrew said:
If you're Indiana and you've got B10 money, why are you farting around and trying to get the next Beard? Just get Beard, if you can.

UNC was in tough times, they had gone with Doherty from Notre Dame and seemed like an up and comer. And they stunk. So they said screw it and went after the best coach available they thought they could get.

Fit matters, of course, but a great coach can fit most anywhere.
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Totally agreed and looks like others agree...
 

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tzznandrew said:
If you're Indiana and you've got B10 money, why are you farting around and trying to get the next Beard? Just get Beard, if you can.

UNC was in tough times, they had gone with Doherty from Notre Dame and seemed like an up and comer. And they stunk. So they said screw it and went after the best coach available they thought they could get.

Fit matters, of course, but a great coach can fit most anywhere.
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Not disagreeing at all, I just dont think big name has to be at the top of the list. If you can get brad stevens by all means get him lol.
I don’t know if this is a comparable situation to unc in prestige and the fact that Roy was originally a unc guy.
would someone like beard find this job attractive enough to leave tech?
 
Jbirdp5 said:
Not disagreeing at all, I just dont think big name has to be at the top of the list. If you can get brad stevens by all means get him lol.
I don’t know if this is a comparable situation to unc in prestige and the fact that Roy was originally a unc guy.
would someone like beard find this job attractive enough to leave tech?
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Yeah, they ain't getting Stevens, though if Stevens weren't with the Celtics and wanted to coach college Indiana would be a great landing place.

I think you—and many—are underselling the appeal of Indiana. It's honestly one of the best 10 coaching jobs in CBB, and even that may be underselling it. We lost our top assistant to IU and I believe we matched pay. They may not have won a title since 1987 but they have a brand and caché. Perhaps they might not right now mean anything to recruits since they've been mediocre for so long, but a coach pushing 50 likely sees them with a different sort of lens.

Indiana vs. Tech isn't even close, though who the hell can tell what a coach like Beard—born in GA and hooping in doing college in TX—would actually do?
 
tzznandrew said:
Yeah, they ain't getting Stevens, though if Stevens weren't with the Celtics and wanted to coach college Indiana would be a great landing place.

I think you—and many—are underselling the appeal of Indiana. It's honestly one of the best 10 coaching jobs in CBB, and even that may be underselling it. We lost our top assistant to IU and I believe we matched pay. They may not have won a title since 1987 but they have a brand and caché. Perhaps they might not right now mean anything to recruits since they've been mediocre for so long, but a coach pushing 50 likely sees them with a different sort of lens.

Indiana vs. Tech isn't even close, though who the hell can tell what a coach like Beard—born in GA and hooping in doing college in TX—would actually do?
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In my lifetime Indiana hasn’t held very much cachet, and I’m not young lol. Outside of one final four run they have been solid yet unspectacular. They have had 4 or 5 coaches since Bobby knight and none have come close to replicating that success on any level.
is throwing a lot of money at a brand name guy the key to winning? It certainly is the safest route. let’s see if beard takes their money.
 
Jbirdp5 said:
In my lifetime Indiana hasn’t held very much cachet, and I’m not young lol. Outside of one final four run they have been solid yet unspectacular. They have had 4 or 5 coaches since Bobby knight and none have come close to replicating that success on any level.
is throwing a lot of money at a brand name guy the key to winning? It certainly is the safest route. let’s see if beard takes their money.
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I mean, they tried it twice. They hired Sampson away from Oklahoma and he had them rolling and then got fired for stuff that wouldn't even be a violation now. Then they went with Crean from Marquette and he was doing pretty well. Not great, but fine.

Beard isn't the only guy they might look at. May not even be their #1.
 
uconngb said:
Exactly. The comment makes no sense. Unless there is something glaring, like you know who, the school can't just decide to not honor the contract. They didn't "do the right thing", they did the only thing they could do.
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See Pitt
 
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Better go after Scott Drew, Beard like I said earlier, or Oats. They got the money, the name brand still, and the conference. You can still win big there with the right coach, I think they can get any one of them 3 with the right offer
 
tzznandrew said:
I mean, they tried it twice. They hired Sampson away from Oklahoma and he had them rolling and then got fired for stuff that wouldn't even be a violation now. Then they went with Crean from Marquette and he was doing pretty well. Not great, but fine.

Beard isn't the only guy they might look at. May not even be their #1.
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Porter makes the most sense to me but we will see.
 
The fact that there are over 100 posts on IU hoops says a lot about Indiana basketball.
Not many college basketball programs make a few phone calls to come up with $10 million to get rid of a coach
Purdue fans are saying they lost 2 coaches yesterday. Micah Shrewsbury to Penn State and Archie Miller
 
BigTenKen was looking to win championships at Indiana. KardashianKen succeeded in finishing behind Rutgers in the Big Ten and missing the NCAA tournament, and now on the road looking for another gig. Way to win Ken.

PS: Indiana would be smart to make a call to the Loyola Chicago coach. He's nearby, local, and a proven winner from a nothing program into a program that people actually know about now. Chris Beard is a good choice as well if he is interested. Musselman from Arkansas is another good candidate.

#SillyRabbitTrixAreForKids
 
Zissou said:
www.usatoday.com

Schools firing 'for cause' look to be blatant attempts to wiggle out of big buyouts

Getting back the upper-hand when dealing with coaches salaries and buyouts should come on the front end of a contract negotiation, not the back.
www.usatoday.com www.usatoday.com
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So that I was not misunderstood, I did offer that IU example to show that well before they “did the right thing” with Archie, they did the “UConn thing” with Sampson. Buying him out for 1/3 of what he was contractually due as a consequence of violating his contract was an example of what most sane schools would do.
 
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I thought I read somewhere that Pitino has some really bizzare contact terms at Iona that make it almost impossible for him to leave for a couple of years in addition he has a high buyout. He can leave but can’t coach for 2 years or something too. More like a noncompete than a traditional buyout.
 
SportsFan88 said:
Better go after Scott Drew, Beard like I said earlier, or Oats. They got the money, the name brand still, and the conference. You can still win big there with the right coach, I think they can get any one of them 3 with the right offer
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I don't know about the other 2 guys, but I don't see why Oats would leave Bama and the SEC money and his current success on court and on the recruiting trail to go to rebuild Indiana ...
 
Mr. French said:
I don't know about the other 2 guys, but I don't see why Oats would leave Bama and the SEC money and his current success on court and on the recruiting trail to go to rebuild Indiana ...
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I was kind of thinking the same thing with Scott Drew. He has the #2 team in the country right now it’s hard to picture him walking away from that. But Indiana ties and a giant raise could help
 
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