Archie Miller out at Indiana

[ZenConn]

The one brother that didn't cheat (as far as we know) gets canned, while the other brother cheats and keeps raking in top recruiting classes every year.

Way to go NCAA!

 

[gioff2323]

Javonte Brown must be thinking wth

 

[tzznandrew]

Wouldn’t the Loyola coach make the most sense here? Already in the Midwest, up and coming? They think they need someone already established? Is this job a step up for beard?

If I were Indiana I wouldn't be screwing around with "up and coming coaches." You've got Big 10 money, you have a rabid fan base, you have excellent—though now distant—history, and you're far enough away from Bob Knight where a coach isn't in his shadow. If you're buying out a coach you hired because he was up and coming for $10 after a covid year you better go after established names.

 

[HuskyBoi]

If I were Indiana I wouldn't be screwing around with "up and coming coaches." You've got Big 10 money, you have a rabid fan base, you have excellent—though now distant—history, and you're far enough away from Bob Knight where a coach isn't in his shadow. If you're buying out a coach you hired because he was up and coming for $10 after a covid year you better go after established names.

You are right. Up and coming coaches are a gamble anyway, and they are going to negotiate a great buyout like Archie did and he will win at the end of this with $10 million in his pocket. They need to go after some established coaches. They might not be where they were with Knight but they aren't some small time program. The possibilities are IU are endless, and it's a Big Ten school so the publicity for recruits is always going to be there.

I have been to Assembly Hall and it is something special. When you walk in and see all their honours as you walk the hallways to get to your seat. It is still such an amazing piece of basketball history and someone should take the chance. Beilein is the first call I bet.

 

[Zissou]

You are right. Up and coming coaches are a gamble anyway, and they are going to negotiate a great buyout like Archie did and he will win at the end of this with $10 million in his pocket. They need to go after some established coaches. They might not be where they were with Knight but they aren't some small time program. The possibilities are IU are endless, and it's a Big Ten school so the publicity for recruits is always going to be there.

I have been to Assembly Hall and it is something special. When you walk in and see all their honours as you walk the hallways to get to your seat. It is still such an amazing piece of basketball history and someone should take the chance. Beilein is the first call I bet.

Indiana did the right thing in honoring the buyout and not throwing Archie under the bus to try to save a few bucks.

 

[HuskyBoi]

Indiana did the right thing in honoring the buyout and not throwing Archie under the bus to try to save a few bucks.

I am not saying that it was right or wrong (and I'm not saying that you think I said that), but I am only saying that when a big school is going to fall head over heels for a young coach that looks like he can be a long term investment then they're going to nonchalantly give that coach what he wants so he doesn't go elsewhere.

Unfortunately it didn't work for IU though

 

[Zissou]

Yep, and when it doesn’t work, just honor the contract and pay it!

 

[HuskyBoi]

IU had nothing to dispute his buyout. He ran a clean program by the looks of it. Unless he was breaking any rules then they can't just NOT pay the guy unless they want a full blown lawsuit

 

[BigTenFan]

IU had nothing to dispute his buyout. He ran a clean program by the looks of it. Unless he was breaking any rules then they can't just NOT pay the guy unless they want a full blown lawsuit

IU prides itself on running a clean program. I think Archie did it it right but couldn't win in the Big Ten. An IU booster wrote the check- no money came from Athletic Dept or University.
Bielen is a great coach but at 68 would be a short timer.

 

[JakeTheDog]

Javonte Brown must be thinking wth

Javonte transferred to Texas A&M

 

[FlakeyFoont]

Crean got shafted. Won conference COY and next year was fired

Crean's Hoosiers began the 2016-17 season ranked No. 11 in the country, and at one point, got as high as third. Their final fate? First round loss in the NIT. How desperate was IU to give Crean the boot? How much did IU want to send him a farewell message? They announced his firing minutes after the 2017 NCAA tournament tipped off. His buyout was $4 million, but would have been only $1 million if they merely waited until July 1.

 

[tzznandrew]

IU prides itself on running a clean program. I think Archie did it it right but couldn't win in the Big Ten. An IU booster wrote the check- no money came from Athletic Dept or University.
Bielen is a great coach but at 68 would be a short timer.

There are a variety of coaches at strong programs in the B12 and SEC that, were I Indiana, I'd offer the moon to. The SEC is on the rise and so you may not get them to bite, but other than Kentucky in the SEC and Kansas in the B12, you'll always be second fiddle while IU can offer you the same amount of money, more fans, and an ability to stroke your ego if you win there.

 

[uconngb]

IU had nothing to dispute his buyout. He ran a clean program by the looks of it. Unless he was breaking any rules then they can't just NOT pay the guy unless they want a full blown lawsuit

Exactly. The comment makes no sense. Unless there is something glaring, like you know who, the school can't just decide to not honor the contract. They didn't "do the right thing", they did the only thing they could do.

 

[Jbirdp5]

If I were Indiana I wouldn't be screwing around with "up and coming coaches." You've got Big 10 money, you have a rabid fan base, you have excellent—though now distant—history, and you're far enough away from Bob Knight where a coach isn't in his shadow. If you're buying out a coach you hired because he was up and coming for $10 after a covid year you better go after established names.

Finding the big name isn’t as important as finding the right guy. Established doesn’t always mean being established at a big school in my opinion. Hurley was coming up a level in competition to us and I would argue we are a better job than indiana.

 

[Travelman6]

Yep, and when it doesn’t work, just honor the contract and pay it!

I have never seen a school not honor a contract if it was respected by the other side.

 

[tzznandrew]

Finding the big name isn’t as important as finding the right guy. Established doesn’t always mean being established at a big school in my opinion. Hurley was coming up a level in competition to us and I would argue we are a better job than indiana.

I mean, Hurley is his own beast and I don't think it's a reasonable comparison to Miller, for instance.

1. He built 2 different programs up from a bottom and from weaker conferences (and he signed on when we were in the American)
2. He was in our backyard and familiar with the recruiting grounds, being from NJ and coaching in NY and RI
3. He comes from a storied basketball family.

Compare that to Archie, who played at NC State, coached as an Assistant at Arizona, and then took over Dayton. Dayton wasn't a rebuild at all. Before he showed up, they won:

2007: 19
2008: 23
2009: 27
2010: 25
2011: 22

In other words, he took over a successful program and kept it humming.

If Indiana had a guy who was up and coming and how turned around two programs in the area, then I think we're playing a different game.

 

[boog204]

If you can get three-four years out of Beilein, he would make IU into a major player again. The guy can coach any player up. Then you hand it off to an up and comer and hope it doesn't go to waste.

 

[huskyfan224]

Crean's Hoosiers began the 2016-17 season ranked No. 11 in the country, and at one point, got as high as third. Their final fate? First round loss in the NIT. How desperate was IU to give Crean the boot? How much did IU want to send him a farewell message? They announced his firing minutes after the 2017 NCAA tournament tipped off. His buyout was $4 million, but would have been only $1 million if they merely waited until July 1.

I don’t feel bad for them is what I’m getting at, especially being around IU fans. He brought them from the doormat and that team had talent, but had new faces. They underachieved for sure, but it doesn’t change the fact he got shafted. From what I’ve heard, he burned a lot of bridges within the program, so I get it a little, but he was/is a better coach than Archie.

 

[Jbirdp5]

I mean, Hurley is his own beast and I don't think it's a reasonable comparison to Miller, for instance.

1. He built 2 different programs up from a bottom and from weaker conferences (and he signed on when we were in the American)
2. He was in our backyard and familiar with the recruiting grounds, being from NJ and coaching in NY and RI
3. He comes from a storied basketball family.

Compare that to Archie, who played at NC State, coached as an Assistant at Arizona, and then took over Dayton. Dayton wasn't a rebuild at all. Before he showed up, they won:

2007: 19
2008: 23
2009: 27
2010: 25
2011: 22

In other words, he took over a successful program and kept it humming.

If Indiana had a guy who was up and coming and how turned around two programs in the area, then I think we're playing a different game.

Not comparing Hurley to Miller comparing the search for a big name to finding the right guy. Finding a guy that can recruit the state and nearby areas is important as is an in game coach.
none of the things you said make it imperative to have a big name. You get the right person he becomes a big name just like beard Is now.

 

[Banta55]

I don’t feel bad for them is what I’m getting at, especially being around IU fans. He brought them from the doormat and that team had talent, but had new faces. They underachieved for sure, but it doesn’t change the fact he got shafted. From what I’ve heard, he burned a lot of bridges within the program, so I get it a little, but he was/is a better coach than Archie.

I've wondered if Crean was actually on Benedicts short list, it seems they put all eggs in DH basket thankfully.

 

[freescooter]

If I were Indiana I wouldn't be screwing around with "up and coming coaches." You've got Big 10 money, you have a rabid fan base, you have excellent—though now distant—history, and you're far enough away from Bob Knight where a coach isn't in his shadow. If you're buying out a coach you hired because he was up and coming for $10 after a covid year you better go after established names.

I kinda think that too. I don’t think Pitino. Moser could land here. I’d rate him much more that an up and comer. I could have seen the guy from Creighton before the Plsntstion incident. Maybe Lietao from sleeping giant DePaul.

 

[tzznandrew]

Not comparing Hurley to Miller comparing the search for a big name to finding the right guy. Finding a guy that can recruit the state and nearby areas is important as is an in game coach.
none of the things you said make it imperative to have a big name. You get the right person he becomes a big name just like beard Is now.

If you're Indiana and you've got B10 money, why are you farting around and trying to get the next Beard? Just get Beard, if you can.

UNC was in tough times, they had gone with Doherty from Notre Dame and seemed like an up and comer. And they stunk. So they said screw it and went after the best coach available they thought they could get.

Fit matters, of course, but a great coach can fit most anywhere.

 

[auggie22]

Yep, and when it doesn’t work, just honor the contract and pay it!

When an internal review performed after his first year at IU uncovered that Kelvin Sampson violated the terms of his contract by making an illegal recruiting call, Indiana withheld paying him his 500k bonus (which was at that time 50% of his university comp). Several years later when Sampson was investigated by the NCAA for similar violations, IU bought out the remainder of his contract for 750k. Kelvin was due 2.5M in base not including unearned bonuses prior to the termination.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Javonte Brown must be thinking wth

@gioff2323 Why?

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

I kinda think that too. I don’t think Pitino. Moser could land here. I’d rate him much more that an up and comer. I could have seen the guy from Creighton before the Plsntstion incident. Maybe Lietao from sleeping giant DePaul.

@freescooter Why would IU consider hiring a guy who minimally underperformed to failed in his last 2 college head coaching opportunities?