Another Example of SEC Mediocrity/Tenn loss

[Bayareahusky]

The situation at Tennessee is a disaster… I do not relish in their misery, as I really feel badly for the players. Especially Graves, who I think is one of the few who really puts it out there…. I have been saying from day 1 when Holly took over in Pat’s last year as coach, when Holly was de facto head coach…. Doing all the game management and coaching….. for the first year or so, gave her the benefit of the doubt and said that it appeared as though she was totally lost…. But it soon became apparent that this was, in fact, the bitter truth. She does not live up to standards as head coach material.


Before this year started, I said the 2 things I really wanted to see were how Mercedes’ feet were, and how the interaction between Holly and DD was….. i.e. was she going to coach Diamond, or let her have free reign ala Meighan. I could have predicted the Diamond – Holly diad being what it is now, but the Mercedes situation surprised me somewhat… In the sense that it appears that her feet are fine…. She just does not have a motor for the upper echelon of WCBB. It seems she operates on the “good enough” theory. I am 6’6”, and I was #1 in the country overall, I must be all right. But of course the USA coaches got production from her this summer… something Holly has not gotten or apparently demanded.


Here are a few quick idle thoughts about where the LVs are…..


- It really surprises me that, although many in TN land have come to realize that their coach is in name only, there are still loyalists…. People who blame the players….. saying things like “coaches do not play the game, they cannot help on the floor”… but all the problems come back to the coach …. Because she has 100% control of the program and thus has total power to fix it. Yes even shot selection, foul shooting, and all that.


- Why does CHW throw her players under the bus at seemingly every post game…. Things like “I do not know what to do … I tell them to do it but they do not listen” Absolutely incredulous…. This is also a cry for help… a blatant ask for someone to fire her…. “I tell them to get in the defensive stance , but they do not want to…” I just do not believe my ears … the things she says…


- What does Pat think? Not that Hart will listen necessarily, but is Pat still solidly behind Holly? Even Pat has to see that Holly cannot teach the game, or at least get players to follow simple instructions. This was Pat’s choice for HC and I wonder if she is still behind her…..


- Where are the assistant coaches in all this? You would think that one of them would say to Holly, Hey Coach, why don’t we try this system on offense? They are not looking good in their positions either….


- Why won’t Holly discipline anyone? Yes I am not there to see the goings on, but I never have seen her get pissed off and sit someone down. Ever.


- What is her method and reasoning of substitutions? It looks so disorganized and without rhyme nor reason.


Of course can go on and on… good time to stop…. I just feel sorry for the players, because it is so obvious it is a rudderless ship.

 

[Waquoit]

I would expect a better played game against ND, but ND should still win.

Exactly, their good game isn't good enough to win.

 

[toadfoot]

While you can game the system some, it isn't quite as easy as you make it out. Some of the highest RPI's that did not make a tourney were teams that did not play strong enough OOC. They do look at that, and also (regardless of RPI flaws) the relative numbers of what they perceive as "good wins" and "bad losses" are factored into seedings as well.

Only UConn plays the number of really tough teams that it does OOC. For many years, Rutgers and Notre Dame when they were in the oBE played fairly tough OOC schedules compared to other major conference teams, although I know RU has decreased the strength.

The problem is that wins/loses is still the most heavily weighted factor and the definition of what's a "good" win and what's a "bad" win gets muddied. Unfortunately I don't know how to see what Sagarin/Massey showed for SOS before conference play started, but I can say with 100% certainty that the SOS of just about every SEC team has improved since then. The SEC and other conferences have learned how to create positive feedback loops with respect to RPI. Their early season cupcake schedules generate relatively high and inflated RPI's. They then play conference schedules where the majority of teams have artificially high RPI's, which then is reflected in artificially inflated numbers of top 25/top 50 teams played and artificially high SOS's.

Just one simple example. Tennessee, according to Sagarin has a 3-3 record against top 25 teams, but one of those wins was against Missouri and there's no way Missouri is a top 25 team. And every other SEC team that's played Missouri gets the same bump. And in turn, those teams' SOS improves. And round and round it goes.

What should happen, is that teams with weak OOC schedules should be penalized, not rewarded. While it may be true that the reward isn't as great as it would be if their schedules were truly good, it's still positive. I suspect this isn't a simple problem to fix, because you want to provide the ability for weaker teams to play top programs to grow the sport, but the NCAA can't continue to allow teams to game the system. As someone correctly pointed out to me the other day, there's a monetary incentive for conferences to get together (read collude) and do this as a conference strategy to get more teams into the NCAA tournament!

 

[ctfjr]

Most painful losses to Uconn: 1995 and 2003 regular seasons.

Which one in '95, The MLK game (1st time meeting of the 2 teams & afterwards 1st time UConn ranked #1) or the FF championship game (the crown is relinquished)

 

[j66kicker]

The situation at Tennessee is a disaster… I do not relish in their misery, as I really feel badly for the players. Especially Graves, who I think is one of the few who really puts it out there…. I have been saying from day 1 when Holly took over in Pat’s last year as coach, when Holly was de facto head coach…. Doing all the game management and coaching….. for the first year or so, gave her the benefit of the doubt and said that it appeared as though she was totally lost…. But it soon became apparent that this was, in fact, the bitter truth. She does not live up to standards as head coach material.


Before this year started, I said the 2 things I really wanted to see were how Mercedes’ feet were, and how the interaction between Holly and DD was….. i.e. was she going to coach Diamond, or let her have free reign ala Meighan. I could have predicted the Diamond – Holly diad being what it is now, but the Mercedes situation surprised me somewhat… In the sense that it appears that her feet are fine…. She just does not have a motor for the upper echelon of WCBB. It seems she operates on the “good enough” theory. I am 6’6”, and I was #1 in the country overall, I must be all right. But of course the USA coaches got production from her this summer… something Holly has not gotten or apparently demanded.


Here are a few quick idle thoughts about where the LVs are…..


- It really surprises me that, although many in TN land have come to realize that their coach is in name only, there are still loyalists…. People who blame the players….. saying things like “coaches do not play the game, they cannot help on the floor”… but all the problems come back to the coach …. Because she has 100% control of the program and thus has total power to fix it. Yes even shot selection, foul shooting, and all that.


- Why does CHW throw her players under the bus at seemingly every post game…. Things like “I do not know what to do … I tell them to do it but they do not listen” Absolutely incredulous…. This is also a cry for help… a blatant ask for someone to fire her…. “I tell them to get in the defensive stance , but they do not want to…” I just do not believe my ears … the things she says…


- What does Pat think? Not that Hart will listen necessarily, but is Pat still solidly behind Holly? Even Pat has to see that Holly cannot teach the game, or at least get players to follow simple instructions. This was Pat’s choice for HC and I wonder if she is still behind her…..


- Where are the assistant coaches in all this? You would think that one of them would say to Holly, Hey Coach, why don’t we try this system on offense? They are not looking good in their positions either….


- Why won’t Holly discipline anyone? Yes I am not there to see the goings on, but I never have seen her get pissed off and sit someone down. Ever.


- What is her method and reasoning of substitutions? It looks so disorganized and without rhyme nor reason.


Of course can go on and on… good time to stop…. I just feel sorry for the players, because it is so obvious it is a rudderless ship.

I relish in their misery. Especially the fans, but no sympathy for the coaches or team either. Like Meyers7 said, they chose their lot. It's just a sports thing - I don't wish them to be run over by a truck, or for their kids to starve. But sports-wise they deserve every ounce of misery they are getting.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Of course Holly deserves blame but I think this is also a poorly constructed team.

Damn, Bgillon, who constructed this team? She didn't inherit it.

 

[johnnyc]

I just feel sorry for the players, because it is so obvious it is a rudderless ship.

Not many Tenn fans around at the moment. You seem to be closet one available lol. Why no possibility that it's a player problem?

Harper visited Tennessee two weeks ago, and while she liked the talent, the palpable chemistry issues within the team was something Harper noticed, sources told Swish Appeal.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2015/12/13/9867322/linnae-harper-transfers-ohio-state-kentucky

 

[Bayareahusky]

Not many Tenn fans around at the moment. You seem to be closet one available lol. Why no possibility that it's a player problem?

Hah !! Good one.... I am a proud UConn grad, and insufferable Huskie fan..... I hate the stuff that went on with UTenn 10 years ago and it still can ignite a hatred, but aside from that, I just feel these gals were sold a bill of goods..... they are getting next to no coaching..... at least they are getting free education

 

[mrmojack]

After losing to Arkansas last night the LV board is blowing up and things aren't going to get any
better in the near future. They go on the road to:

1/18 @#3 Notre Dame
1/25 @#9 @Kentucky
1/28 @#7 Miss St

They could have 8 losses by the end of the month. They have a total of ZERO recruits coming in
next year. They may have to bring in some JUCO's and hope they don't have any transfers.

 

[HuskyNan]

- Where are the assistant coaches in all this? You would think that one of them would say to Holly, Hey Coach, why don’t we try this system on offense? They are not looking good in their positions either….

A few years a well respected assistant was brought in, a woman named Jolette Law. If the name is familiar, it's because she was an assistant at Rutgers during the years where an organized offense was optional. (No offense to our RU friends)

 

[johnnyc]

they are getting next to no coaching...

Warlick is probably running the same program that Summitt ran just maybe not as forcibly. It's quite possible Warlick may indeed be coaching (granted the only way she knows) but all it takes is one or two uncoachable players to infect the whole team if left to do so.

 

[Bayareahusky]

A few years a well respected assistant was brought in, a woman named Jolette Law. If the name is familiar, it's because she was an assistant at Rutgers during the years where an organized offense was optional. (No offense to our RU friends)

Yes, and Elzy was supposed to be a world beater, and Craig very good at developing post players.... I just have not seen any of it.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Warlick is probably running the same program that Summitt ran just maybe not as forcibly. It's quite possible Warlick may indeed be coaching (granted the only way she knows) but all it takes is one or two uncoachable players to infect the whole team if left to do so.

Oh point well taken..... but i do not think it matters..... because i think Holly demands nothing of them..... there are no consequences for disobeying her wishes.....

I think of a woman from our old neighborhood who would take her 6 year old to the town pool, and when it was time for dinner..... and she called her daughter out of the pool, Melissa wouldn't come out. 20 minutes later it was " Please Melissa time to get out of the pool!!" and over and over...... If the mother were Holly she would say "I tell her what to do but she doesn't want to do it"

 

[JoePgh]

You forgot the rousing #20 Florida loss to GA at home where the teams were a combined 25 of 45 from the free throw line and 7 of 35 from three.
Of the 14 SEC teams playing tonight only 4 scored more than 66 points, while 6 failed to reach 60 points

25 of 45 on free throws? That was the result of the superb level of free throw defense in the SEC.

 

[MilfordHusky]

wow...starting 5 had 3 assists and 17 turnovers....just horrible team play ....I can't believe that could have ever happened under Pat S

Hey, Alex, is a 3:17 ratio bad?

 

[MilfordHusky]

This is Diamond's 3rd year of college. Maybe she's just not that good? Not every top recruit pans out or lives up to the hype.

She's very athletic, but is she a good basketball player?

 

[Bgillon]

Damn, Bgillon, who constructed this team? She didn't inherit it.

I should have expounded a little more on my point. I meant to say there are 2 problems; Holly's coaching of the team and how Holly constructed the team. The second problem may be making the first one worse. Thanks for the prodding!

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Warlick is probably running the same program that Summitt ran just maybe not as forcibly. It's quite possible Warlick may indeed be coaching (granted the only way she knows) but all it takes is one or two uncoachable players to infect the whole team if left to do so.

Sometimes you have to tell those players, "thanks, but no thanks; maybe you need to transfer".

 

[Carnac]

After losing to Arkansas last night the LV board is blowing up and things aren't going to get any
better in the near future. They go on the road to:

1/18 @#3 Notre Dame
1/25 @#9 @Kentucky
1/28 @#7 Miss St

They could have 8 losses by the end of the month. They have a total of ZERO recruits coming in
next year. They may have to bring in some JUCO's and hope they don't have any transfers.

I peeked in on their board also. The natives are restless. The ones that aren't calling for holly's resignation or firing, want her head on a stick. They are baffled at the ineptitude in leadership, lack of any discernable team direction or orientation and lack of control she seems to have at this time. In a word, they're not happy.

 

[johnnyc]

Oh point well taken..... but i do not think it matters..... because i think Holly demands nothing of them..... there are no consequences for disobeying her wishes.....

I think of a woman from our old neighborhood who would take her 6 year old to the town pool, and when it was time for dinner..... and she called her daughter out of the pool, Melissa wouldn't come out. 20 minutes later it was " Please Melissa time to get out of the pool!!" and over and over. If the mother were Holly she would say "I tell her what to do but she doesn't want to do it"

Well that is a discipline issue which I agree is part of coaching but separate from x's and o's so I'm not sure what you mean when you say the players were sold a bill of goods.

 

[Roundball fan]

Good or bad?

Very good ones, miss my daughter being little.

 

[Ron and Vida]

Sometimes you have to tell those players, "thanks, but no thanks; maybe you need to transfer".

But she already did....

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

But she already did....

Who transferred from Tennessee?

 

[Ron and Vida]

Who transferred from Tennessee?

DD has already transferred once

 

[EricSD]

She's very athletic, but is she a good basketball player?

Great question Mil... Well, Margo almost bit off her tongue, she was so excited when it was reported Diamond was transferring to Tennessee. And all last year leading up to the start of this year, whenever DD was mentioned, Tennessee fans ALWAYS told us how she was the NFOY and that Tennessee was getting the next great player in the elite line of Holdsclaw, Catchings, and Parker.

Problem is, kids still need to be coached. Stewie likely would be a NPOY candidate had Geno left her alone to do whatever she wanted because she's naturally gifted. But watch Stewie every possession of every game. Same went for Maya and Dee and Moriah and Nykesha and any other former UCONN great - they gave 100% effort every minute they were on the court.

Those kids LEARNED as freshmen that less than your best is not good enough and maybe with the exception of Maya and Nykesha, Geno sat every single one of his stars for at least 1 game in their careers for lack of effort in practices. Just watch DD in a game and her effort comes in waves. Disinterested in defense, often only going 100% on offense when she has the ball. THAT is lack of coaching and accountability. But still, the question needs to be asked - why was DD such a superstar at UNC, while performing solidly but unspectacularly at Tennessee? It does seem she's regressed. Maybe she's saving it for the NCAA's...

 

[Carnac]

DD has already transferred once

.....and she may transfer again. Her bags ae still setting by the door. She never unpacked.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

DD has already transferred once

Gotcha; I thought you meant someone left Rocky Top.

 

[Rocket009]

DD has already transferred once

You have to wonder if some of the UNC transfers (and there have been a lot) were driven by a lack of chemistry, which seems to have carried over to TN. Maybe we'll see a similar flood of transfers out of Knoxville at the end of this year.

 

[UcMiami]

But still, the question needs to be asked - why was DD such a superstar at UNC, while performing solidly but unspectacularly at Tennessee? It does seem she's regressed. Maybe she's saving it for the NCAA's...

Because people raved about those moments of great effort and incredible athleticism and didn't look 'under the hood' her freshman year. Diamond shot more than any other player at UNC (220 more shots that the #2 player) and shot more threes than any other player and she was shooting similar percentages to this year (.424/.279). The rest of the UNC team shot .450/.336 and there were 5 players shooting significantly better and five players shooting threes better than Diamond on that team. She had the third highest number of assists on the team, but she was the only one of the three to have more turnovers than assists - her A/TO of 0.75 - the rest of the wings/guards had an A/TO of 1.19 and the team had an A/TO of 0.89 All of her percentage statistics were below the team average for those statistics. She had a gaudy scoring average but she was a very inefficient shooter. UNC was a free flowing offensive team, TN is not, so what you see looks worse this year, but it really is a continuation of what came before.
In a freshman you look at all the excitement and forgive the other stuff, as a third year player you are happy for her that she is able to play 'her style' of basketball, and thankful it is for someone else's team!

On Edit - she is actually shooting a higher percentage than the rest of the team this year at TN so comparatively she is doing better this year than her freshman year. (That does not say much for the rest of the TN team!)

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I should have expounded a little more on my point. I meant to say there are 2 problems; Holly's coaching of the team and how Holly constructed the team. The second problem may be making the first one worse. Thanks for the prodding!

And now there is a substantial, not unfounded fear among the Orange Nation that word is out among the recruits and the 2016 draught will not be an anomaly. They are hoping Holly scoops up a couple of JUCOs and maybe can swipe a few mid-major players, otherwise they will be down to conscripting volleyball players. I feel it is not an unreasonable fear of some fans that a transfer or two may come absent a dramatic turn around.